The Globalization of Spirituality

Re: # 49 by philosopher

Very well said

:-)~~

.saima shah
well it is a thought provoking article but there are many obvious inconsistencies in it.it seems that article has been written in haste.there is no doubt that all spirtual systems of the world have same message and there are many simililarities b/w them.but can not have spirtual life without having some sort of clarity on theoretical level.this clarity may not be strictly mathematical or of formal nature but clarity in following the guidance priciples of those spirtual messages at least on personal level.we have to draw a line somewhere to know which things can not be accomodated in any spirtual message at any cost.they may not be of strict moral nature but at least you have to accept the psychological teaching of those spirtual messages.in all monothistic traditions you can not accpet lesbianism and still be spirtual like the playboy models.you may be `tolerent`but can not make them part of that spirtual message unless you are following spirtuality as `zehni aayashi`.islam does exactly that it subsumes all the spirtual messages but devolop a paradigm on which that spirtuality can be achieved on personal level.that` the reason why Quran makes distinction b/w islam and `imaan`.islam[submission]is the path to `imaan`.this submission or islam is the first step not itself a goal.if you stick to mechanicaly you would be sterile but if you accept as the guiding line or a framework than you will be able to comprehend ulitimate spirtual being.following this framework doesnt make you docile it shows you the path in the complexity and illusion of `appereance` to comprehend the reality beyond that.you have to have a clear stance of certain social ethics which are not of institutional nature but of spirtual and psychological nature otherwise you would decieve yourself.if you want to follow spirtuality you have got to have firm stance on things which are strictly forbidden in the spirtual messages.you might reshape them chang their form but you just can not accpet them as they are.if it isnt than i would raise the question of the intellectual creditability of the ultimate spirtual being.you are missing the point of purpose and ultimate goal of spirualism is well.is it merley `a psychological need`or it has some sort of goal associating with ulitimate nature of the transcendental realty?religious language and assertions are of metaphorical ,allegorical and symbolic nature especialy when they are dealing with transcendental universe of discourse but these assertions can not be absolutly independent of the meanings it obviously releases.they must be true in some sense in terms of their transcendental dicourse.these assertions must tell something about the ontological charchter of ultimate transcendental realty.if it is not so than i think its a great snare and the sooner we get rid of it the better.if we are grabing it to have mental fun and to reduce our depression than we should better focus on producing more psychologists and psychatrists.
you can not achieve spirtuality with having some sort of social philosophy and without adhering to certain `moral` priciples which spirtual message is offering.
on the secial level ,hoever,your methodology will be different.the phenemnoun of madudi is inevitable and in fact necessary.these are social laws.when we analyse them we have to see them from a sciological point of view.its the desire of civilisation to preserve its identity.
outcome of it may or may not have anything to do with religion or spirtuality but still its has got to be taken seriously by keeping in mind some of its ineveitable and positive aspects.you are talking about the globalisation of spirtuality and the simililarities in all spirtual messages but you seem to be unaffected even by those guiding principles which are common in all faiths only coz they dont suit to your preconcieved notion about social ethics.if this is the case i think you will be nowhere.

Re: # 45 and ofcourse Syed sahiba is descended from a long line of great people......poor NNTsyed.....is like a beast of burden....and longs to unburden himself anywhere

Re: # 46 OOntsyed BuOOlegum

[........Give it a rest boys]

Looks like the old dotard got tired of his building his caliphates in thin air...let him enjoy his dreams before he evaporates under next amrikan daisycutter ...hahaha


[...trailer park-blah blah blah ...]

Peach be upon you, garbage picker, cab-driverquick-canadian-visa-from-mamma bajori rubbish hahaha. Amen.

Re: # 45

correction...

``Give it a rest boys....your inability to defend your stupidity with or without vulgarity further reinforces your trailer park-lower middle class-naturalized hindi american trash stereotype, and embarrasses the heck out millions of decent Indian/Hindu people worldwide.``

:-)~~

Re: #28 - 32

ROTFL....

Alhumdolillah ..... All praises be to ALLAH !!!....the ONE and ONLY to have blessed me with amazing quality to set off instant internal combustion within the enemies of Islam .... they look so funny popping like jalapenos out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Judging from the posts 28-32, I must have touched the raw nerve of the trailer park-lower middle class-naturalized hindi american trash, and a bit forcefully at that.....LOL

Here I was talking about kittens in the oven, and three came crawling out like over-baked, rather burnt, ``COOOOOOK-IES``......LOL

Give it a rest boys....your inability to defend your stupidity without vulgarity further reinforces your trailer park-lower middle class-naturalized hindi american trash stereotype, and embarrasses the heck out millions of decent Indian/Hindu people worldwide. Unlike you, these millions are trying to be a part of the solution, not problem.

It`s time you woke up to the reality that the WASP power brokers first incarcerated the American-Indians (The Actual Owners of the Americas) inside the reservations and then restricted them there by keeping them drunk in their casinos.

You, on the other hand, are only Indian-Americans, and even that by means of naturalization .... subject to revocation of your citizenship when it suits your WASP ``mastas`` with the Jews, blacks, hispanics, and Eastern European immigrants all around them.

Instead of isloated reservations, you`re placed in urban reservations called ghettos....because they need your cheap labor there. They`ll keep you feeling rich at 10K/year, since today that amount of money puts one in the top 13% of the global population. Go check out for yourself here

:-)~~

#43 by HD

When we`re happy do we ever think of God?

When the cup is full, who cares about any God.

Kabir sang:

``Dukh mein sumiran sab kare, sukh mein kare na koi
Jo sukh mein sumiran kare, to dukh kahe ko hoi?``

Loose translation:

``Everyone remembers god in times of sorrow, no one remembers him when happy,
Those who remember him even in happiness, why would they ever be in sorrow?``

When we`re happy do we ever think of God?

When the cup is full, who cares about any God.

Kabir sang -
Man mast hua toh kyun bole

Only when the cup is empty, the problems begin, without end :)

Re- Zeena: ``Spiritualism is a way to focus your mind upon one point, and get intensely attached to it with out getting separated even when you`re among millions of humans.``

So is stalking :))))

#40

That is quiet possible b/c Pakistan ideology is attributed to him and many TNT supporter swear by Iqbal.
He died much before later on leaders used religion and politics for there own good and ends.

Re: # 39

That`s good to know... but I think he was a little too gung-ho on the islamic stuff and ``muslim nationalism``...

#Mohar

I have always thought Iqbal was a jacka## and this couplet proves it further...

Mian - Your faith is false, it has led you down the wrong path.... it will lead you to your final destruction unless you wisen up... :)
.............................

Iqbal like many other nationalists including Tagore wanted to be proud of being from the EAST.

Iqbal did not take Islam literally but Philosophically ,
his thesis was in persian islamic mystisism
and he was right to feel good enough and stand up to Arrogence of west represented by Colonisers

Re: # 37
[...Muslims who had nothing but poverty, hunger, destitute, and oppression and yet they had faith so that they constructed a mosque overnight...]

And even today - muslims still have the same poverty, hunger,destitute... even today, they are more concerned about mosque, koran, cartoon of Mo than their own destitution... the faith has led them to more of the same poverty, hunger,destitute... and yet muslims didn`t learn a thing...

I have always thought Iqbal was a jacka## and this couplet proves it further...

Mian - Your faith is false, it has led you down the wrong path.... it will lead you to your final destruction unless you wisen up... :)

Re: # 36 tolkinin

You have partially quoted another of Allama Iqbal`s masterpiece. This couplet is also very pertinent to the subject at hand. But first the correct couplet, which is as follows:``

``Masjid to banadi shab bhar mein imaan ke hararat walon ne
man apna purana papi hay barson mein namazi ban na saka``


The background of this couplet is that there used to be a mosque in Lahore, which was partially demolished by Sikhs during the Sikhashahi and converted into a Gurdawara. When British took over Punjab from Sikhs, sometime in 1920s Muslims filed a case in the court for the recovery of the their property and re-enactment of the building as Mosque once again. The English Judge, decalred in court that before he gave any verdict he would want to visit the disputed site, the next day. Upon hearing this, the Muslims of Lahore, went to the disputedsite , in the middle of night, and removed any signs of construction that would give an impression of it being anything but a mosque. They also performed some construction overnight in this regard as well. The next day when judge visited the site he could not find anything that would even remotely suggest that the building was ever a Gurdawara.

Allama on one hand has paid tribute to those Muslims who had nothing but poverty, hunger, destitute, and oppression and yet they had faith so that they constructed a mosque overnight; but on the other hand Allama laments those Muslims who have everything but no faith.

Without faith a human being is nothing but a biological entity whose only pupose in life becomes to consume, procreate, and seek comfort. To rise above the level of being a biological entity all a man has to do is to prostrate before One True God.

Everything else is false.

#34 Urstruly

That one prostration, that you feel so difficult to make;
Gives you freedom from thousands of other prostrations
.....................................
But all including hindu jews christians do kneel /prostrate somewhere.

Iqbal also could not practice strict islam when he said


Man apna purana papi hai

Barso maine namazi ban na saka?

#34 by Urstruly on December 12, 2006 11:46am PT



Logically, Satan shouldn`t be wasting his efforts on those Who have no idea Who their Creator is.


Unless satan is your creator....have you considered that...satanic verses and all that religious bunk...

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the so called ``new age spirituality`` is nothing but another ploy of Satan to misguide human beings from One True God Who has created us all. The proof of this contention is that Satan only misguides humans who know very well Who their Creator is. Logically, Satan shouldn`t be wasting his efforts on those Who have no idea Who their Creator is. I found these few lines in the article quite an eye opener. Read and ponder:

``B. Mankind was so happy when they lived a natural life with a central place for God. The rituals and ideas of those ancient times are in synch with our emotional needs. Go back to those and problems will be solved.

C. Hopelessness characterizes the modern life as much as the ancient life. Belief in God brings faith, faith brings hope. Hope brings courage. Courage brings decision. Decision brings perseverance.

Eureka. But didn’t we know this all along? Open any ancient religious book (e.g., Quran, Bible etc), Lesson 1. Believe in goodness. Lesson 2, You are known and loved by God. Lesson 3. You have power, pray. Lesson 4: Have Faith

See, the question is that if we know about our destination and we know exactly what makes is happy and hopeful. Then why doubts. Why tread on paths unknown, when we already know which path takes us where we want to go?

Allama Iqbal has summarized Man`s whole quest for non-sense very eloquently in this couplet:

Woh aik sajdah jise too giran samajhta hai
Hazar sajde se deta hai admi ko najat

Tanslation:
That one prostration, that you feel so difficult to make;
Gives you freedom from thousands of other prostrations

Excellent, Saima. Insightful as usual. Very new age of me. :)

OOntsyed

Hey do you know and understand the significance of these two 6OO6s before your name?

Re: # 29 Ironmask

[they leave behind their loyal retainers...]

They even leave behind their Royal Containers (read Lotas) like our OOntsyed here.

Re: # 28 Arjun2

Or, if a Paki named OOntsyed is doing the latrines in Gitmo, is he a Paki-Caliph-in-Waiting-Till-2529 or is he a pOOr-bu99er-fOOked-up-for-life?

Re: # 28 now now arjun2, this will never do.....(finger wagging icon here...)

remember saudi roayls visit pakistan for hunting rare species....and ofcourse they leave behind their loyal retainers like OBL et al to keep them in line to receive the next set of royalties

#27 by ntsyed on December 12, 2006 5:43am PT

if a paki has delusions of being an arab, does he get any oil royalties...?

Re: # 9 by arjun2

``You get flattered and you get to wear pants...

So you gave the west deepak chopra and the west gave you pants...all in all, an awesome bargain for you...``

LOL

Spoken like a ``trailer park lower middle class hindi amrikan``

Some years ago a black man was heard in Hyde Park, ranting about whites opressing the blacks and other non-white.

During his speech he inquired if there were any Americans in the crowd. Two ``African`` Americans responded by raising their hands. The speaker refused to acknowledge them as ``Americans``.

The irritated Brothas insisted that they were ``born`` Americans. So the speaker put a simple test before the crowd and rendered the Brothas silent:

``If a cat gives birth to a litter of few kittens in an oven, what would you call them: kittens or cookies``?

...LoL

:-)~~

Re: # 17

the comment was on SRAI`s interact and a passing remark on Kullu

Re: # 17

isnt this like URSTRULY`s aphorism ``a human being has absolutely no reason to be `good`, unless he believes in God``

only more uptodate.....gobbledeegook.....
but Kullu sahib, you weild that axe very well......

interesting...

....sorry .... wrong board ...

But you can listen to the song anyway ...

Never liked the squeaky voice of Lata ... Geeta Dutt was much better ... (T)(T)

An interesting article! The first one on this site that I liked!

Couple of things:
1. Why do you confine the globalization to Muslim spirituality alone? What about the Christianity, Hinduism or even the Jewish faith? Since the early 90s, we are witnessing a rapid rise or globalization as you put it, in faith based ideologies.

2. Why don’t you picture the bill gates, or the Soros or the other philanthropist as people who understand the schism and mitigate it by using their wealth in secular ways?

I thought you had it right when you got to this part,
”What is more tragic? Our Fear? Or, Their Exploitation of Our Fear?”

Then you drifted off track. You needed to explore this a bit more. Fear is competition or hatred or better still a straw man that motivates individuals and nations to accelerate their personal or national progress.

Don`t have much time now to go in details.

My concept of spiritualism is as simple as ABCs.

Spiritualism is a way to focus your mind upon one point, and get intensely attached to it with out getting separated even when you`re among millions of humans.

And that point is one supreme energy, called GOD in my terminology to get all your answers and peace of mind.

conscience& morality is Good.....

this article is interesting perspective rambling without giving any thing to make discision one way or other.

# 17

A brutal, brutal man! :)

#16
it is postmodern. it is not supposed to ``mean`` anything much like the rant in this article unless you want to brainalyze this writer`s hangups.

re: SRai # 14

``questions regarding the ``Muslimness`` or ``religiousness`` of the diaspora in relation to the subaltern and the popular culture of spirituality of the masses.``

Very profound. What does it mean?

Re:urstruly#10

[..I have pondered the question many many times and came up with the same answer that a human being has absolutely no reason to be `good`, unless he believes in God....]

There is a strong reason to be `good` besides pleasing God, which is self-preservation. Lets say there are 2 average, similar people who do not believe in God. Each one of them may want to kill the other one and steal their property to maximize their individual benefit. However, neither will want to actually do this simply because they do not want the other person to kill them and steal their property. They would know that the other person will be defending himself and if they do not succeed in the first attempt, there will be retribution.

Out of self-preservation instinct, they will come up with a contract on not killing each other and respecting each other`s property rights. That is what becomes a social contract and eventually the legal system.

In fact if you think about it, once man decided to be a social animal, it became imperative to establish such a system to function in a society. Religions and all came later and added to this system by giving it spiritual connotations, thus solidifying the social contract even further.

What`s with all the flak?

Saima, you have provided an excellent discussion on globalization and spirituality that is bound to provoke questions regarding the ``Muslimness`` or ``religiousness`` of the diaspora in relation to the subaltern and the popular culture of spirituality of the masses.

``what is spiritualism doing in the midst of the most intense materialism``

whether capitalist`s philanthropy is spirituality or simple indigestion due to over eating -- hard to know -- but it is an old phenomenon.

it is an attempt to relieve gas buildup of materialistic over ingestion and over amassing of wealth -- into a disease called GERD (Gastro-Esophageal Reflux Disorder) caused by an obese life of gluttonous capitalism -- that needs to be relieved by occasional burps of philanthropy.......a form of load shedding......

partly.....spurred by the realization in the later life of these capitalists in mid life crises -- that you can`t take any of it with you into the grave like the foolish pharaohs thought -- because alas there is no afterlife of capitalism in the afterlife -- only of God`s equitable socialism -- if any.

Re: # 10; You should ponder some more. You don;t need to god to be good. Do unto others is a social darwinistic phenomenon copied by god.

striving for inclusiveness will inevitably mean giving up a piece of yourself to make room for new pieces. You cannot pick and choose attributes in the globalized world.

I have pondered the question many many times and came up with the same answer that a human being has absolutely no reason to be `good`, unless he believes in God. Therefore, if one does not believe in God, the so called spirituality is absolutely an unreasonable human trait. Even Budhism, allegedly the world`s only atheist religion, could not do away God for long or that of dogma of reincarnation. Today a Buddhist is good because he believes in the dogma of reincarnation. So what are we left with; Choppra? What he tells you basically is what happens to you in afterlife, without mentioning God. Ask him this simple question - how does he know about afterlife.

Instead, we the colonized are flattered that ‘our’ culture is being globalized.


You get flattered and you get to wear pants...

So you gave the west deepak chopra and the west gave you pants...all in all, an awesome bargain for you...

Will have to read the article a few times over to see what the central message here is. At first reading, it seems to be a very Islamic article - where human ideals like inclusiveness are rejected for their own value, but are taken up under the overarching doctrine of temporal necessity that must shape shape all Islamic interactions with non-Muslims.

Good to see muslims finally waking up and becoming spiritual. Too much kneeling and bobbing can be injurious to your spirituality.

Dear Saima Shah,

The original official translation (till the mid 1980s) of the word Unity, Faith and Discipline was : Itehad (Unity), Tanzeem (Discipline) and Faith (Yaqeen-e-Muhkam - firm belief in yourself)

In the mid 1980s, faith was translated as Imaan as in belief in the religious sense.

But since this is such an issue what about the more obviously ``Ram Rajya`` in practice and what of half naked witchdoctors invoking religion and running on an ego trip and acting like spiritual dictators ... that is the anti-thesis of any positive spirituality if you ask me.

-YLH

I recall a cartoon piece (Hagar the Horrible)

`It`s like pasta, it`s messy but yummy.`

I rephrase that line:

`It`s like pasta, it`s messy but yummy in parts.`

No offence meant.

oh la la ! someone could smell some smoke over here.

Saima

Sorry, You failed to make one solid point. Very unimpressive article. This article is written in haste.

You lack goal orientation adn goal directedness. You are all over the place, but, as a matter of fact, you are No where.

Regards

(New-age spiritualism has made fantastic inroads into our mind-spaces in the last few years. So, what is spiritualism doing in the midst of the most intense materialism human history has ever witnessed?)

What was the point ?

Very confused article. Are you against philanthropy or against pop-spirituality? If it`s the latter, then I have to agree with you- in this day and age, giving credence to the astrologers, tarot-card readers, feng shui consultants and what-have-you is plain stupid. It panders to the scared superstitious child in us, and that`s just not healthy.

But if you think Warren Buffet giving away 31 billion of his hard-earned dollars or Bill Gates trying to change lives through his foundation is to be tarred by the same brush, you`ve lost me. Completely. However cute your sardonic references are, it makes no sense to me. If someone is doing good, any good, that`s better than not doing it. simple as that.

And frankly, analysing Maslow`s theory is first-year B-school stuff. It`s almost embarrassing to see it posturing as an opinion piece.