Pakistan-Afghanistan Relations: The Choice Between Alliance and Acrimony
Javaid Zeerak December 27, 2006
#230 Posted by pavocavalry on December 10, 2007 12:46:55 am
Javed Sahib's analysis is good.It must be noted that between 1978 and 1992 the ruling Pakistani military junta left no stone unturned to destabilise the de facto PDPA Government of Afghanistan.The Pakistani military junta was instrumental in manipulating the so called Mujahids to destroy Kabul.The same continued with civilian Prime Ministers.Nawaz Sharif took pride in stating that Afghan Army was destroyed as an institution by the so called Mujahids.Benazir continued the same dubious policy of supporting Taliban.Gen NUK Babar called Taliban his boys.Mullah Borjan the true partiot Afghan Taliban leader was mysteriously killed.Afghans say it had a Pakistani hand.
Dr Najib saw the things as they were and tried to make peace.But the civilian government of that time had no intellect and refused the offer.The DG ISI of that time Javed Nasir told Nawaz Sharif that Dr Najib was a Kafir.What bullshit.
I have great regards for Spanta Sahib.He was a true Maslaki.Bisyar Ziad Kaka Adam Bood.No match .But remember he was no Mujahid.
Now as I see it Afghanistan is again being manipulated by so many powers.Its a great tragedy.
Khalq o Parcham Zindadabad
Dr Najib saw the things as they were and tried to make peace.But the civilian government of that time had no intellect and refused the offer.The DG ISI of that time Javed Nasir told Nawaz Sharif that Dr Najib was a Kafir.What bullshit.
I have great regards for Spanta Sahib.He was a true Maslaki.Bisyar Ziad Kaka Adam Bood.No match .But remember he was no Mujahid.
Now as I see it Afghanistan is again being manipulated by so many powers.Its a great tragedy.
Khalq o Parcham Zindadabad
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#229 Posted by hexelite on June 4, 2007 10:43:12 pm
Afgahns are the biggest frustrated people in the World. Even they exist because of Pakistan, when there was no world for them it was Pakistan first who gave them a Hand to Help.
Even today Afghans are doing business hare in Pakistan, investing all of thier Black Money, and converting it into white.
To better establishment of Pakistan, the Govt sholud Banish Afghans from Pakistan!
Even today Afghans are doing business hare in Pakistan, investing all of thier Black Money, and converting it into white.
To better establishment of Pakistan, the Govt sholud Banish Afghans from Pakistan!
#228 Posted by KaalChakra on January 6, 2007 7:41:20 am
tahmed32 ji
You are too good, a true universalist (with just the right touch of `nationalism` :)).
Agreed, many of us others operate at a slightly lower level, acknowledging that there are great forces selfishly dividing and uniting people, and no amount of our wishing is going to make them go away. Ignoring them can actually hurt the naive.
You are too good, a true universalist (with just the right touch of `nationalism` :)).
Agreed, many of us others operate at a slightly lower level, acknowledging that there are great forces selfishly dividing and uniting people, and no amount of our wishing is going to make them go away. Ignoring them can actually hurt the naive.
#227 Posted by tahmed32 on January 4, 2007 8:21:38 am
kaalchakra #226: you write ``After a certain point, many subnationalities do not consider themselves as `occupied people` anymore. They willingly and often proudly submerge their nationhood within that of their occupiers.``
``Nationality`` is nothing more than ``tribalism`` - i.e. it is based on the human instinct to find safety by becoming part of a herd. The ``herd`` can identify itself on a religious basis, a caste basis, a linguistic basis, a citizenship basis, a regional basis or some mix of the same. So, ``submerging`` one`s ``nationality`` merely means switching to become part of a bigger herd.
Far more important is to get rid of the underlying reason - insecurity - that underlies this ``herd mentality``. And that is best done, I think, by going beyond nationalism to a more universal view of things. ``With malice towards none`` in Lincoln`s insightful words.
``Nationality`` is nothing more than ``tribalism`` - i.e. it is based on the human instinct to find safety by becoming part of a herd. The ``herd`` can identify itself on a religious basis, a caste basis, a linguistic basis, a citizenship basis, a regional basis or some mix of the same. So, ``submerging`` one`s ``nationality`` merely means switching to become part of a bigger herd.
Far more important is to get rid of the underlying reason - insecurity - that underlies this ``herd mentality``. And that is best done, I think, by going beyond nationalism to a more universal view of things. ``With malice towards none`` in Lincoln`s insightful words.
#226 Posted by KaalChakra on January 3, 2007 9:46:11 am
romair
You grasp the dilemmas of Islamic leadership better now than you did post 9/11 (as arjun keeps reminding people). On the other hand, wild swings from the extremes of euphoric embrace to dejected abandonment can betray some basic instability.
Armed insurgencies are controlled regularly. When parties share a basic democratic, humanistic mindset, democracy is a powerful antidote. The other very sucessful approach destroys the occupied nation`s own nationhood, and replaces it with a completely new one through unbridled brutality and total mind control maintained over many generations. After a certain point, many subnationalities do not consider themselves as `occupied people` anymore. They willingly and often proudly submerge their nationhood within that of their occupiers.
When one of the two approaches (democracy or unbridled brutality and total mind control) is properly and patiently applied, insurgents wither away. In their place, active agents arise.
You grasp the dilemmas of Islamic leadership better now than you did post 9/11 (as arjun keeps reminding people). On the other hand, wild swings from the extremes of euphoric embrace to dejected abandonment can betray some basic instability.
Armed insurgencies are controlled regularly. When parties share a basic democratic, humanistic mindset, democracy is a powerful antidote. The other very sucessful approach destroys the occupied nation`s own nationhood, and replaces it with a completely new one through unbridled brutality and total mind control maintained over many generations. After a certain point, many subnationalities do not consider themselves as `occupied people` anymore. They willingly and often proudly submerge their nationhood within that of their occupiers.
When one of the two approaches (democracy or unbridled brutality and total mind control) is properly and patiently applied, insurgents wither away. In their place, active agents arise.
#225 Posted by okhla99 on January 3, 2007 2:22:42 am
#219
Future Trends .....
Hanging of Saddam is but one step forward in the eminently sensible long term US plan for the region -- Control over the oil resources. And this can, in the opinion of the think tank, be easily achieved by balkanisation of the Iran-Iraq-Pakistan region. Small states with oil resources can be ``managed`` effectively (the Kuwait model). Other small & medium states without any significant oil resources can surely be relied upon to maintain a hostile environment with constant mini wars amongst themselves which threaten to spill over into and engulf the ``oil holders`` which would be ``duly protected`` by the US. For a price.
Therefore, the next step would be balkanization of the region. Whether Kurdistan becomes independent first or Balochistan is what remains to be seen. The order is immaterial. What matters is that there is an order in the chaos. The US is slowly and surely inching towards its long term goals. And no amount of chest thumping is going to daunt it…..
And of course, Masadi knows this all...
Future Trends .....
Hanging of Saddam is but one step forward in the eminently sensible long term US plan for the region -- Control over the oil resources. And this can, in the opinion of the think tank, be easily achieved by balkanisation of the Iran-Iraq-Pakistan region. Small states with oil resources can be ``managed`` effectively (the Kuwait model). Other small & medium states without any significant oil resources can surely be relied upon to maintain a hostile environment with constant mini wars amongst themselves which threaten to spill over into and engulf the ``oil holders`` which would be ``duly protected`` by the US. For a price.
Therefore, the next step would be balkanization of the region. Whether Kurdistan becomes independent first or Balochistan is what remains to be seen. The order is immaterial. What matters is that there is an order in the chaos. The US is slowly and surely inching towards its long term goals. And no amount of chest thumping is going to daunt it…..
And of course, Masadi knows this all...
#224 Posted by tahmed32 on January 2, 2007 7:31:02 pm
hamidm: harsh? you think i could care less what filth a two-taka man like this individual writes on chowk? in the interests of keeping chowk from becoming a cesspool, i do think that chowk staff should be doing what they are supposed to be doing on a moderated board, and shutting out abusive posters like this man.
#223 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2007 6:37:50 pm
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#222 Posted by hamidm2 on January 2, 2007 5:52:49 pm
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#221 Posted by arjun2 on January 2, 2007 11:09:15 am
#219 by bulleya on January 2, 2007 9:19am PT
and most of all, our own musharraf..
oh so now you think he`s going to swing, huh? just a few years ago you told us he was on a roll and how every grandmother in the US knew about him and how Pakiland was going to sail along with that wind in their sails....of course, that was before you understood the real nature of the relationship (think bomb you to the stone age and bombs on bajaur)....
and most of all, our own musharraf..
oh so now you think he`s going to swing, huh? just a few years ago you told us he was on a roll and how every grandmother in the US knew about him and how Pakiland was going to sail along with that wind in their sails....of course, that was before you understood the real nature of the relationship (think bomb you to the stone age and bombs on bajaur)....
#220 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2007 9:25:02 am
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#219 Posted by bulleya on January 2, 2007 9:19:02 am
....i think the best way to see how things will pan out in the future is to look at past trends.......most of them are quite clear, yet so many people totally ignore them........
1. no one has, historically, been able to defeat the afghans through an invasion and occupy their lands......the british tried it, the soviets tried it, pakistanis and iranis (?) kind of tried it.......based on this, it should be obvious that nato and usa are not going to be able to do it either........
hence we will soon be seeing a defeated nato coming out of afghanistan.......
2. it is nearly impossible for a structured military to defeat an insurgency, when the military is trying to occupy land.........the only successful example is in malaysia (?) with the brits (?).........all other occupations have failed......at best they have resulted in long term perpetual violence........at worst in all out defeat for the occupying country......french in algeria......soviets in afghanistan.......usa in vietnam.........pakistan in bangladesh.......india in kashmir........israel in lebanon..........israel in palestine.........russia in chechnya.......turkey in kurdistan.........
based on this, the americans were bound to be defeated in iraq......which is what has happened........though it was even a lot faster than i thought.......
3. any dictator, in a muslim country, who sides with the usa, will eventually, one day, get hanged by the usa at some point.........the reason is that sooner or later, the population of that country will rise up against the pro-usa policies of the dictator, thereby forcing the dictator to adopt anti-usa policies....or even more dangerously, anti-israel policy........or the dictator will over-extend himself, in trying to assist the usa, in its conflicts with other countries, thereby weakening himself in his own country............
shah in iran.......zia in pakistan.......saddam in iraq......noriega in panama.......mujahideen leaders in afghanistan........based on this trend, the next on the list are hosni in egypt.....sauds in saudi arabia.......the gulf shiekhs.........the king of jordan.....the leaders of lebanon......and most of all, our own musharraf....
.......the best policy is to niether be a friend of the us govt. nor be an enemy........one is screwed if one does either.......especially if one is a dictator........either your own population will hang you or the americans will.........rumsfeld shaking hands with saddam one day, and executing him the next is a very good example.......
........hence, the best thing for musharraf to do now is to distance himself from the usa and start doing what his own population wants him to do.......rather than waiting till the last second when he has to ditch the usa, in the fear of his own population overthrowing him......or he has to become anti-usa.........in both the later cases, he is screwed............if hilary clinton or borack obama don`t hang him then john mccain or qazi hussain (or nawaz sharif will).........
1. no one has, historically, been able to defeat the afghans through an invasion and occupy their lands......the british tried it, the soviets tried it, pakistanis and iranis (?) kind of tried it.......based on this, it should be obvious that nato and usa are not going to be able to do it either........
hence we will soon be seeing a defeated nato coming out of afghanistan.......
2. it is nearly impossible for a structured military to defeat an insurgency, when the military is trying to occupy land.........the only successful example is in malaysia (?) with the brits (?).........all other occupations have failed......at best they have resulted in long term perpetual violence........at worst in all out defeat for the occupying country......french in algeria......soviets in afghanistan.......usa in vietnam.........pakistan in bangladesh.......india in kashmir........israel in lebanon..........israel in palestine.........russia in chechnya.......turkey in kurdistan.........
based on this, the americans were bound to be defeated in iraq......which is what has happened........though it was even a lot faster than i thought.......
3. any dictator, in a muslim country, who sides with the usa, will eventually, one day, get hanged by the usa at some point.........the reason is that sooner or later, the population of that country will rise up against the pro-usa policies of the dictator, thereby forcing the dictator to adopt anti-usa policies....or even more dangerously, anti-israel policy........or the dictator will over-extend himself, in trying to assist the usa, in its conflicts with other countries, thereby weakening himself in his own country............
shah in iran.......zia in pakistan.......saddam in iraq......noriega in panama.......mujahideen leaders in afghanistan........based on this trend, the next on the list are hosni in egypt.....sauds in saudi arabia.......the gulf shiekhs.........the king of jordan.....the leaders of lebanon......and most of all, our own musharraf....
.......the best policy is to niether be a friend of the us govt. nor be an enemy........one is screwed if one does either.......especially if one is a dictator........either your own population will hang you or the americans will.........rumsfeld shaking hands with saddam one day, and executing him the next is a very good example.......
........hence, the best thing for musharraf to do now is to distance himself from the usa and start doing what his own population wants him to do.......rather than waiting till the last second when he has to ditch the usa, in the fear of his own population overthrowing him......or he has to become anti-usa.........in both the later cases, he is screwed............if hilary clinton or borack obama don`t hang him then john mccain or qazi hussain (or nawaz sharif will).........
#218 Posted by hamidm2 on January 2, 2007 9:10:55 am
Re: # 217
salim mian,
....... when i was in eight grade my english teacher named me the `instigator` and to this day i have the dubious reputation of being a master at starting an argument where none exists ........... heck, i can even make a case that people born out of wedlock are superior to people born to married couples based on the example of jesus christ, lawrence of arabia, the prophet ishmael and alexander hamilton ........ so, i understand what you are trying to do here ....... and of course we all know that the moon is made out of cheese .....
salim mian,
....... when i was in eight grade my english teacher named me the `instigator` and to this day i have the dubious reputation of being a master at starting an argument where none exists ........... heck, i can even make a case that people born out of wedlock are superior to people born to married couples based on the example of jesus christ, lawrence of arabia, the prophet ishmael and alexander hamilton ........ so, i understand what you are trying to do here ....... and of course we all know that the moon is made out of cheese .....
#217 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2007 8:32:07 am
Ranjit #209,
Despite what the self-styled demagogues, who claim to speak for ALL Pakistanis, say, there are many many Pakistanis who regret the unnecessary and totally asinine partition of India. Yes, many of these Pakistanis hail from Karachi, NWFP, and Baluchistan. Of course, you would expect the people from Punjab to be very satisfied with partition - they benefited most from the mayhem and inequities visited upon the unfortunate people of India.
Despite what the self-styled demagogues, who claim to speak for ALL Pakistanis, say, there are many many Pakistanis who regret the unnecessary and totally asinine partition of India. Yes, many of these Pakistanis hail from Karachi, NWFP, and Baluchistan. Of course, you would expect the people from Punjab to be very satisfied with partition - they benefited most from the mayhem and inequities visited upon the unfortunate people of India.
#216 Posted by bbabu on January 2, 2007 7:11:12 am
Re: # 101
In retrospect Saddam made too many mistakes. He refused to share power with Shites and Kurds in his own country. He attacked Iran and occupied Kuwait.
In retrospect Saddam made too many mistakes. He refused to share power with Shites and Kurds in his own country. He attacked Iran and occupied Kuwait.
#215 Posted by tahmed32 on January 2, 2007 7:10:08 am
#209 ranjit: actually....no. :-) what i wrote was to educate you on the origins of the urdu language, which you thought was india. and while at it, i mentioned other historical facts that demonstrate where india is historically relative to pakistan - namely the recipient of ideas. what hamidm says is quite correct, and is in addition to what i wrote: the vast majority of pakistanis are very pleased with their separate nation and - whatever their differences, as in case of urstruly and hamidm - would never dream of undoing partition. on the other hand, over the years i have met countless indians who start off any discussion by talking about the partition as being a big tragedy.
so nice try. but hamidm is right. and guys like arjun are the best friends of fellows like me who - while wishing nothing but peace and prosperity to india - love Pakistan and are very proud of our great history and fine people.
so nice try. but hamidm is right. and guys like arjun are the best friends of fellows like me who - while wishing nothing but peace and prosperity to india - love Pakistan and are very proud of our great history and fine people.
#214 Posted by bbabu on January 2, 2007 7:06:15 am
Re: # 146
what do you mean that they own pakistan ? it is hard to own 150 million plus people
what do you mean that they own pakistan ? it is hard to own 150 million plus people
#213 Posted by tahmed32 on January 2, 2007 7:03:13 am
#212 zeemax: All I said was that was the last post in the set of posts I exchanged with arjun, not promise no more posts in future. And the reason I actually wasted time exchanging posts with him was because I felt sorry for this man, and not because he is a lowlife (thought that he is, obviously). I felt sorry for him because he obviously doesnt have much of a life if he spent his entire holidays past few days parrotting his usual ``paki jihadi`` stuff on chowk thinking he is changing the world as a result.
#212 Posted by zeemax on January 2, 2007 3:09:29 am
#207 by tahmed32
tahmed, if Chowk does not ban lowlifes like arjun_m for good, then such people must be ostracised so they leave on their own accord after being ignored by this venerable community.
I hope you keep your promise.
tahmed, if Chowk does not ban lowlifes like arjun_m for good, then such people must be ostracised so they leave on their own accord after being ignored by this venerable community.
I hope you keep your promise.
#211 Posted by zeemax on January 2, 2007 2:37:28 am
#205 by HP
Your callousnes amazes me. First you supported ZAB`s judicial murder, now you support Saddam`s. That just proves you believe in the rule of lynch mobs, and not due process of law. How come in that case you abhor the televised beheadings by Islamists? I`m sure they have their own reasons. Maybe Daniel Pearl was indeed an Israeli spy. Who knows? Do you?
Principles are inviolable. Even Israel did not lynch Eichmann. I admire Israel for that, though not much else.
Your callousnes amazes me. First you supported ZAB`s judicial murder, now you support Saddam`s. That just proves you believe in the rule of lynch mobs, and not due process of law. How come in that case you abhor the televised beheadings by Islamists? I`m sure they have their own reasons. Maybe Daniel Pearl was indeed an Israeli spy. Who knows? Do you?
Principles are inviolable. Even Israel did not lynch Eichmann. I admire Israel for that, though not much else.
#210 Posted by Ranjit on January 1, 2007 11:20:30 pm
Re:anil
[...``...as a Hindu shouldn`t you be worshiping the new sun by now....``
Urstruly sahib: r u showing soft corners.......]
Anil and others, urstruly seems to be referring to China as the new sun.
[...``...as a Hindu shouldn`t you be worshiping the new sun by now....``
Urstruly sahib: r u showing soft corners.......]
Anil and others, urstruly seems to be referring to China as the new sun.
#209 Posted by Ranjit on January 1, 2007 11:17:42 pm
Re:tahmed#188
[..If it wasnt for Pakistan, there would be no India (literally, for reasons explained above). So there!! :-)....]
Tahmed Chacha, you just made my point. Hamidm unkil was vocifereously claiming that Pakis dont want to mix with Indians and have nothing to do with India. I was telling him the opposite, which you have just confirmed. So there, hamidm unkil!! Even tahmed supports my pov. :-)
[..If it wasnt for Pakistan, there would be no India (literally, for reasons explained above). So there!! :-)....]
Tahmed Chacha, you just made my point. Hamidm unkil was vocifereously claiming that Pakis dont want to mix with Indians and have nothing to do with India. I was telling him the opposite, which you have just confirmed. So there, hamidm unkil!! Even tahmed supports my pov. :-)
#208 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 10:37:44 pm
HP #206 No doubt the mullahs will be busy trying to figure out ways to make a martyr out of this sob. Never mind that the ba`athist party stood for taking baths, which mullahs never do. (this last part is an attempted joke, inspired by your post). ;-)
#207 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 10:28:51 pm
#203 arjun: Where did I say that your posts bother me? Re-read carefull what I wrote below. Are you blind as well as being stupid?
Now last post for sure.
Now last post for sure.
#206 Posted by HP on January 1, 2007 10:28:32 pm
#205
Change this:
4- Can opener: as we all know, any decent Middle Eastern has to carry one with him at all time. It can be used for many things including as a weapon in a fight with bad drivers.
to:
4- Box cutter: as we all know, any decent Middle Eastern has to carry one with him at all time. It can be used for many things including as a weapon in a fight with bad airline pilots.....
#205 Posted by HP on January 1, 2007 10:22:50 pm
#184 by hamidm2
Now that Jammat Islami in Pakistan is taking out processions for Saddam,-Call it super duper irony- I thought I will surf and whip something about Saddam’s last twenty four hours to add some spice/hot mirchi to Jamaat Islami`s agony!
I googled and got this, here you go:
When they took his radio away he knew there must be something in the news that they don`t want him to hear, and indeed this was the countdown to his execution.
There was only 24 hours left in Saddam`s life. His American captors told him that they are going to let him meet with two of his half brothers so that he can discuss his wishes with them. At this point Saddam had no doubt that his life is over.
Upon arrival of his half brothers into his cell Saddam ordered two Canada Dry drinks for his guests which were immediately delivered by the prison guards. Saddam always thought that if he ordered Coke or Pepsi he would be boosting the US economy and ordering Canadian products he thought shows his defiance to the Americans and his allegiance to the British!
Among Saddam`s personal belonging that he kept in a shoe box under his prison bed were these items that he gave to his half brothers on his last day of life:
1- Small notebook where he kept records of his cooking recipes. His plan was to start his own cooking show on TV if he was ever released. He was thinking ``If they released Martha Stewart, they will certainly release me!``
2- An unused condom. In reply to his brothers bewildered surprise he said, ``you never know when you need one.``
3- A tube of Preparation H for soothing chronic hemorrhoid due to just sitting and doing nothing. His half brother was so touched when Saddam handed him the tube.
4- Can opener: as we all know, any decent Middle Eastern has to carry one with him at all time. It can be used for many things including as a weapon in a fight with bad drivers.
5- Establishment of the Literacy Corps... anyway ignore this one.
6- A picture of Queen Elizabeth, he adored her so dearly. He also liked Benny Hill and never missed his shows.
7- A bottle of Mevacor, to keep his cholesterol down! It was, however, a generic version since his HMO did not cover brand names.
8- A copy of ``How to Win Friends and Influence People.`` You see what reading that book does to you?
They asked Saddam what he wanted for his last meal. He replied ``as much as I hate Persians but I love their cuisine, so bring me an order of mixed veggies with lots of Taftoon (irani )bread.`` Since Halliburton does not provide Taftoon in Baghdad they had to send an envoy across the borders to a Persian grocer to buy a few frozen packages.
At five in the morning an hour before his execution he got into a verbal confrontation with guards and four-letter words were flying all over the place. According to reporter from Agence France Press the commotion started when Saddam saw that the breakfast was only bread, feta cheese and hot tea. He got pissed off and started cussing. You see he had requested whole lamb (a medieval lamb dish consisting of tongue, eyes, brain and facial meat.) I know it doesn`t sound like a meal and more like a crime scene but that`s how things go over there. According to the eyewitnesses he attacked one of the guards and grabbed his balls but then released his testicles on his own recognizance.
He never gave up!
Any comments?
#204 Posted by anil on January 1, 2007 10:22:14 pm
Re: # 166
Hamidm Sahib:
``...when my two girls fight and run out of the usual derogatory epithets .. the ultimate insult is always, ``you look like an indian!``.............at this point the cussee starts crying and the cussor walks away triumpahtly ............``
A father`s friendly advice for your ``aman aur chain``, ``sukh aur shanti``, or ``peace and prosperity``, whatever you prefer:
Please suggest to daughters, as loving and caring father that they can cut the chase and immediately call each other ``you look like an indian``. Both will think they are the cursor, and no one will think is the cursee, therefore, no one will cry.
You will have ``sukh aur shanti`` at home. Chanakya niti, Hamidm sahib, can also begin at home.
Hamidm Sahib:
``...when my two girls fight and run out of the usual derogatory epithets .. the ultimate insult is always, ``you look like an indian!``.............at this point the cussee starts crying and the cussor walks away triumpahtly ............``
A father`s friendly advice for your ``aman aur chain``, ``sukh aur shanti``, or ``peace and prosperity``, whatever you prefer:
Please suggest to daughters, as loving and caring father that they can cut the chase and immediately call each other ``you look like an indian``. Both will think they are the cursor, and no one will think is the cursee, therefore, no one will cry.
You will have ``sukh aur shanti`` at home. Chanakya niti, Hamidm sahib, can also begin at home.
#203 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 10:19:51 pm
prophet tahmed(peace be unto your self-righteous rear):
there is an ignore feature, right...why don`t you use it? Then you won`t have to read my hate mail(sic)
there is an ignore feature, right...why don`t you use it? Then you won`t have to read my hate mail(sic)
#202 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 10:18:16 pm
#201 arjun: you are more stupid than I thought. fine. arry on writing your hate mail about pakis on chowk. the only loser is - you. for reasons i explained earlier but which are beyond your macaca-mind. last post.
#201 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 10:13:58 pm
#198 by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 10:03pm PT
dost mittar could sell ten like
DM and his breed are the past....... maybe it`s DM`s nostalgic ties to the old country or maybe it`s just the cold canuckistani air..his wagah candle lighting pakis-are-just-like-us brigade is a relic of the past...most Indians today don`t think like him..and the youth sure as heck don`t..
you have never even been to pakistan
I haven`t been to afghanistan or iraq either...what`s so special about pakiland other than the fact that it`s the fountainhead of islamic terrorism...it`s pretty much tied to the majority of plots/attacks by the islamofascists..
all you can talk about is stuff you pull out of newspapers on the internet
yes prophet tahmed. pakis hate the news...reality, you see, is biased against the pakis..and the internet just amplifies the bias..
the internet is really the modern day equivalent of the protocols of the elders of zion, with pakis as the target of the huge forgery instead of the jews..
the real reality is really the reality of pakiworld, the bizzaro world where pakis are just moderates who never supported the taliban, never suported islamic terrorism and where paki grad school students are being made offers like those being made to the IIM grads..
p.s. for someone who claims to be ignoring me, you sure as heck spend a lot of time posting to me...
dost mittar could sell ten like
DM and his breed are the past....... maybe it`s DM`s nostalgic ties to the old country or maybe it`s just the cold canuckistani air..his wagah candle lighting pakis-are-just-like-us brigade is a relic of the past...most Indians today don`t think like him..and the youth sure as heck don`t..
you have never even been to pakistan
I haven`t been to afghanistan or iraq either...what`s so special about pakiland other than the fact that it`s the fountainhead of islamic terrorism...it`s pretty much tied to the majority of plots/attacks by the islamofascists..
all you can talk about is stuff you pull out of newspapers on the internet
yes prophet tahmed. pakis hate the news...reality, you see, is biased against the pakis..and the internet just amplifies the bias..
the internet is really the modern day equivalent of the protocols of the elders of zion, with pakis as the target of the huge forgery instead of the jews..
the real reality is really the reality of pakiworld, the bizzaro world where pakis are just moderates who never supported the taliban, never suported islamic terrorism and where paki grad school students are being made offers like those being made to the IIM grads..
p.s. for someone who claims to be ignoring me, you sure as heck spend a lot of time posting to me...
#200 Posted by anil on January 1, 2007 10:08:12 pm
Re: # 180
``...as a Hindu shouldn`t you be worshiping the new sun by now....``
Urstruly sahib: r u showing soft corners,
or,
Kuch daal mein kalaa kalaa hai ya daal bhed (secret) se kaali hai
``...as a Hindu shouldn`t you be worshiping the new sun by now....``
Urstruly sahib: r u showing soft corners,
or,
Kuch daal mein kalaa kalaa hai ya daal bhed (secret) se kaali hai
#199 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 10:04:43 pm
#197 hamidm: i know. but we leave no child behind. :-)
#198 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 10:03:42 pm
#194 that was bs. dost mittar could sell ten like you in the market, so dont flatter yourself into thinking that you know something he doesnt. and furthermore, you have never even been to pakistan, while dost mittar has been there. so dont flatter yourself too much, genius. all you can talk about is stuff you pull out of newspapers on the internet which you then try to twist to fit your mindset.
#197 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 10:03:28 pm
Re: # 195
tahmed,
........ look, there are two sides to every coin - so if we have urstruly on one side, there has to be arjun on the other ............. heads or tails, mankind looses .........
tahmed,
........ look, there are two sides to every coin - so if we have urstruly on one side, there has to be arjun on the other ............. heads or tails, mankind looses .........
#196 Posted by anil on January 1, 2007 10:00:31 pm
Re: # 184
Hamidm sahib:
``.....think of passing myself off as an indian - unfortunately i am too good looking ........``
Indian chowkies will anoint you either as ``honorable`` or ``honorary`` India. Please do not forget Dal Lake side perpetual property rights..
Hamidm sahib:
``.....think of passing myself off as an indian - unfortunately i am too good looking ........``
Indian chowkies will anoint you either as ``honorable`` or ``honorary`` India. Please do not forget Dal Lake side perpetual property rights..
#195 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:57:49 pm
arjun: think of what i wrote, dont just come back with your usual bs. good night.
#194 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 9:57:35 pm
#192 by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:47pm PT
no prophet tahmed...I`m here to educate the wagah candle lighting indians, like dost-mittar, on the reality of the situation...it`s people like him who need to be educated on the matter of pakiness ...........and how a ``moderate`` paki is really a suicide bomber who`s misplaced his detonator...
no prophet tahmed...I`m here to educate the wagah candle lighting indians, like dost-mittar, on the reality of the situation...it`s people like him who need to be educated on the matter of pakiness ...........and how a ``moderate`` paki is really a suicide bomber who`s misplaced his detonator...
#193 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:55:56 pm
anyway, my sympathies for you mr. arjun. anyone who spent his new year`s eve writing hate mail on the internet the way you have been doing has to be pathetic. go take a breath of fresh air. make some friends. come to chowk to have some fun, not to change the world because that isnt going to happen no matter how many posts you write.
if you want to fight jihadis, join the armed forces and you will have my personal thanks. but dont keep parrotting the same crap year after year on chowk and flatter yourself into thinking that you are ``fighting`` or doing anything other than idling on the internet.
if you want to fight jihadis, join the armed forces and you will have my personal thanks. but dont keep parrotting the same crap year after year on chowk and flatter yourself into thinking that you are ``fighting`` or doing anything other than idling on the internet.
#192 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:47:14 pm
#191 so, the genius is fighting the jihad on chowk!! ha! ha! every time you write a post adds to the income of the paki owners of chowk. who do you think you are fooling? you are on chowk because want to be around pakis. and being too stupid to write anything other than your parrotting the same ``paki paki`` crap year after year for anyone to take any notice of your parrotting anymore.
#191 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 9:41:38 pm
prophet tahmed(peace be unto your self-righteous rear)
it`s the jihad, stupid...
if it weren`t for the islamic terrorism coming out of the land of the pure, the land of the pure would just be another stan to the world and a west bangladesh to most Indians....
it`s the jihad, stupid...
if it weren`t for the islamic terrorism coming out of the land of the pure, the land of the pure would just be another stan to the world and a west bangladesh to most Indians....
#190 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:30:24 pm
arjun: and have spent so much time over several years on chowk just to let us pakis know that you want nothing to do with us. ha! ha! you would be funny if you werent such a spiteful little man.
#189 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 9:27:52 pm
#188 by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:17pm PT
prophet tahmed(peace be unto your self-righteous rear)...
sorry...thanks to the j-man, the land of the pure has shed any relationship it had to what was historically known as India..two nation theory and all that...
now you`re just another stan where islamic terrorists and cab drivers come from...and India is where yoga, panini, indian culture etc comes from..
and indians are better off for it..
thank FSM for jinnah....
prophet tahmed(peace be unto your self-righteous rear)...
sorry...thanks to the j-man, the land of the pure has shed any relationship it had to what was historically known as India..two nation theory and all that...
now you`re just another stan where islamic terrorists and cab drivers come from...and India is where yoga, panini, indian culture etc comes from..
and indians are better off for it..
thank FSM for jinnah....
#188 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:17:04 pm
ranjit: you write Every Paki speaks an Indian origin language i.e. Urdu....etc. etc.
Urdu is of Paki origin (urd = military camp, and the language started in the military camps in what is now Pakistan, picking up stuff from Old Panjabi and some middle eastern languages). As is Sanskrit btw - Panini was an alumnus of Taxila Madrassah in Pakistan. Hinduism is of Paki origin, the Vedas being centered around the indus river areas. The very name India was given in charity by Pakistan - the name India referred to the indus river area, and was popularized in the west around 400 BC by pakistani warriors fighting, alongside their persian brothers against the greeks. it does not stop here...
Chandragupta Maurya learnt his statecraft at Taxila Madrassah, Pakistan. Same fine educational institution where Kautlya learnt his stuff. Lahore was where the Sikh religion was born. Even your precious gau mata is a gift of Pakistan - domesticated around 12,000 BC in the middle east, it found its way to Pakistan a thousand years later, and we only after that we Pakis gave the gau mata as a gift. I could go on, but you get the point.
If it wasnt for Pakistan, there would be no India (literally, for reasons explained above). So there!! :-)
Urdu is of Paki origin (urd = military camp, and the language started in the military camps in what is now Pakistan, picking up stuff from Old Panjabi and some middle eastern languages). As is Sanskrit btw - Panini was an alumnus of Taxila Madrassah in Pakistan. Hinduism is of Paki origin, the Vedas being centered around the indus river areas. The very name India was given in charity by Pakistan - the name India referred to the indus river area, and was popularized in the west around 400 BC by pakistani warriors fighting, alongside their persian brothers against the greeks. it does not stop here...
Chandragupta Maurya learnt his statecraft at Taxila Madrassah, Pakistan. Same fine educational institution where Kautlya learnt his stuff. Lahore was where the Sikh religion was born. Even your precious gau mata is a gift of Pakistan - domesticated around 12,000 BC in the middle east, it found its way to Pakistan a thousand years later, and we only after that we Pakis gave the gau mata as a gift. I could go on, but you get the point.
If it wasnt for Pakistan, there would be no India (literally, for reasons explained above). So there!! :-)
#187 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 8:53:50 pm
hamidm
See - even urstruly has given up on kashmir and other outdated battles that you are still fighting all alone, for some unknown psychological reasons [some kind of Don Quixote syndrome, I guess]...
Instead, Urstruly actually wants us hinuds to be part of his camp, the ``winning camp``.... it seems he has spotted some sort of ``New Sun`` rising in the horizon ...and he is almost at the verge of taking over the world, by defeating all the evil western forces....
Or it could be just the hallucinations caused by too much crow meat you both are eating these days... :)
See - even urstruly has given up on kashmir and other outdated battles that you are still fighting all alone, for some unknown psychological reasons [some kind of Don Quixote syndrome, I guess]...
Instead, Urstruly actually wants us hinuds to be part of his camp, the ``winning camp``.... it seems he has spotted some sort of ``New Sun`` rising in the horizon ...and he is almost at the verge of taking over the world, by defeating all the evil western forces....
Or it could be just the hallucinations caused by too much crow meat you both are eating these days... :)
#186 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 8:40:36 pm
Re: # 184
how about idlee stuffed with crow meat?... kind of a double rejoinder for your stupidity of fighting already lost battles of kashmir and paki H&D(honor & dignity)... :)
how about idlee stuffed with crow meat?... kind of a double rejoinder for your stupidity of fighting already lost battles of kashmir and paki H&D(honor & dignity)... :)
#185 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 8:33:30 pm
Re: # 182
[...It was same story with all Paki girls ....]
Except for Hamidm`s daughters... they are true blue pakis :)
[...It was same story with all Paki girls ....]
Except for Hamidm`s daughters... they are true blue pakis :)
#184 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 8:32:05 pm
Re: # 180
urstruly,
......... just when i have the horrible hindoo hyenas on the ropes, you come along and blow away all my thoughtful arguments !
....... pathetic pakis like you and masadi make me want to puke and think of passing myself off as an indian - unfortunately i am too good looking ........
......... saddam hussein was a murderous thug who was finally brought to justice even though i think they should have just handed him over to moktada ....... if the suicidal shias and the homicidal sunnis want to kill each other, it is not the americans fault - the bedouins have been doing it since the time of the abominable four .........
.......here i am, fighting for kashmir and the honor of ordinary pakis and then you come along and ruin everything .......... if you keep this up i might end up eating crow dosas and, god forbid, idlee ........
urstruly,
......... just when i have the horrible hindoo hyenas on the ropes, you come along and blow away all my thoughtful arguments !
....... pathetic pakis like you and masadi make me want to puke and think of passing myself off as an indian - unfortunately i am too good looking ........
......... saddam hussein was a murderous thug who was finally brought to justice even though i think they should have just handed him over to moktada ....... if the suicidal shias and the homicidal sunnis want to kill each other, it is not the americans fault - the bedouins have been doing it since the time of the abominable four .........
.......here i am, fighting for kashmir and the honor of ordinary pakis and then you come along and ruin everything .......... if you keep this up i might end up eating crow dosas and, god forbid, idlee ........
#183 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 8:26:18 pm
#175 by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 6:50pm PT
do you guys even have a press ?
To hear the pakis tell is, Indians control the media even in the west..which, according to pakis, explains why India gets positive press coverage and Pakiland negative press coverage...obviously it can`t be because of Indians making their mark in IT and pakis making their mark in Islamic terrorism..no siree...it`s the jews who control the paki media and their indian sidekicks....
do you guys even have a press ?
To hear the pakis tell is, Indians control the media even in the west..which, according to pakis, explains why India gets positive press coverage and Pakiland negative press coverage...obviously it can`t be because of Indians making their mark in IT and pakis making their mark in Islamic terrorism..no siree...it`s the jews who control the paki media and their indian sidekicks....
#182 Posted by Indian on January 1, 2007 8:19:41 pm
I attended the New Year`s party at Indian restaurant for Indian community in NJ. Some Paki groups of girls ``wannabe Indian`` showed up and were shamelessly dancing to Indian tune. They resented to be Pakistani. I attended a Paki wedding 2 weeks before. It was same story with all Paki girls ....
#181 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 8:04:01 pm
Re: # 180
new sun rising?... you don`t even control your country pakistan?... what sun are you rising?
new sun rising?... you don`t even control your country pakistan?... what sun are you rising?
#180 Posted by Urstruly on January 1, 2007 7:56:13 pm
Re: # 177
This is typical loser talk. Your masters who had put these words of hatered in your mouth have been thoroughly disgraced, defeated, and forced to pick up the mess they had made with their anuses, bpoth in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is a new sun rising on the horizon; and as a Hindu shouldn`t you be worshiping the new sun by now. I wonder what keeps you in the losers camp still??
This is typical loser talk. Your masters who had put these words of hatered in your mouth have been thoroughly disgraced, defeated, and forced to pick up the mess they had made with their anuses, bpoth in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is a new sun rising on the horizon; and as a Hindu shouldn`t you be worshiping the new sun by now. I wonder what keeps you in the losers camp still??
#179 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 7:53:15 pm
Re: # 178
good... so are you ready to fight Mushy and his henchmen - what masadi calls the ``indigenously staffed occupation force``?... :)
good... so are you ready to fight Mushy and his henchmen - what masadi calls the ``indigenously staffed occupation force``?... :)
#178 Posted by Urstruly on January 1, 2007 7:50:48 pm
Saddam receives a heroe`s funeral in Pakistan.
Emerges as a symbol of resistance against the global evil
#177 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 7:44:12 pm
Re: # 175
Don`t sweat it dude, arjun is just pulling your legs... nobody cares what pakis think about anything or anybody... I mean - these days, what does it mean to be a pakistani?... a terrorist, an islamist, bin laden, taliban... And what does mean to be an indian?... economy, growth, high tech industry, bollywood, rising power...
That`s bottom line... sorry to say this, but you got nothing dude... and you are not even good looking... :)
Don`t sweat it dude, arjun is just pulling your legs... nobody cares what pakis think about anything or anybody... I mean - these days, what does it mean to be a pakistani?... a terrorist, an islamist, bin laden, taliban... And what does mean to be an indian?... economy, growth, high tech industry, bollywood, rising power...
That`s bottom line... sorry to say this, but you got nothing dude... and you are not even good looking... :)
#176 Posted by Ranjit on January 1, 2007 7:34:14 pm
Re:hamim2#175
[......... let me assure you again, that most pakistanis have no desire to mix or be mixed up with indians .....]
Hamidm unkil, with all due respect, this is ridiculous. Are you denying that all pakis are totally obsessed with India?
Lets see now. Every Paki speaks an Indian origin language i.e. Urdu. How many Indians speak a Pak origin language? Every Paki watches Indian movies, even the ISI and Army ideologues, even the mullahs of MMA (in secret of course). How many Indians watch Paki movies? Every Paki listens to Indian music - Kishore Kumar, Mohammad Rafi, Lata. How many Indians listen to Pakis (except for a few recent bands)? Every Paki loves Indian food whether it is mughlai or biriyani or samosas or dosas(lets face it, all these were created in India!!). How many Indians like pure Paki food like Frontier Gosht?
Paki newspapers are obsessed with India, with even articles on rural electrification benchmarking against India. Indian newspapers rarely mention Pakistan except when there is a bomb blast since they are too busy speculating about an Aishwariya-Abhishek marriage. Poor Ayaz Amir on his visit to Delhi was totally fed up that Indian newspapers had given up on geo-politics (translation: interest in Pakistan), and was all about fashion shows, music and Bollywood!! He was probably cursing us mirasi hindus, no doubt!!
Only a few US based Indians are obsessed with Pakis and that too only on the internet, mainly as a result of being well off and bored with nothing else to do at home.
[......... let me assure you again, that most pakistanis have no desire to mix or be mixed up with indians .....]
Hamidm unkil, with all due respect, this is ridiculous. Are you denying that all pakis are totally obsessed with India?
Lets see now. Every Paki speaks an Indian origin language i.e. Urdu. How many Indians speak a Pak origin language? Every Paki watches Indian movies, even the ISI and Army ideologues, even the mullahs of MMA (in secret of course). How many Indians watch Paki movies? Every Paki listens to Indian music - Kishore Kumar, Mohammad Rafi, Lata. How many Indians listen to Pakis (except for a few recent bands)? Every Paki loves Indian food whether it is mughlai or biriyani or samosas or dosas(lets face it, all these were created in India!!). How many Indians like pure Paki food like Frontier Gosht?
Paki newspapers are obsessed with India, with even articles on rural electrification benchmarking against India. Indian newspapers rarely mention Pakistan except when there is a bomb blast since they are too busy speculating about an Aishwariya-Abhishek marriage. Poor Ayaz Amir on his visit to Delhi was totally fed up that Indian newspapers had given up on geo-politics (translation: interest in Pakistan), and was all about fashion shows, music and Bollywood!! He was probably cursing us mirasi hindus, no doubt!!
Only a few US based Indians are obsessed with Pakis and that too only on the internet, mainly as a result of being well off and bored with nothing else to do at home.
#175 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 6:50:58 pm
Re: # 173
arjun,
..... i think you are just a little paranoid ............ let me assure you again, that most pakistanis have no desire to mix or be mixed up with indians ......... i am a rare exception and i do it because of the principle of dire necessity - my desire to drink and then eat spicey food (and as a penance for the sins of my forefathers) ......... if i could find four good pakis to drink with me, i would stop associating with all indians - trust me, it is painful to see them shakig their heads sideways while i am still sober ....... now please go and read dawn or dailytimes and then come back and tell us what we pakis are saying about ourselves ........... doesn`t it strike you odd that not a single paki here reads the indian press - do you guys even have a press ?
arjun,
..... i think you are just a little paranoid ............ let me assure you again, that most pakistanis have no desire to mix or be mixed up with indians ......... i am a rare exception and i do it because of the principle of dire necessity - my desire to drink and then eat spicey food (and as a penance for the sins of my forefathers) ......... if i could find four good pakis to drink with me, i would stop associating with all indians - trust me, it is painful to see them shakig their heads sideways while i am still sober ....... now please go and read dawn or dailytimes and then come back and tell us what we pakis are saying about ourselves ........... doesn`t it strike you odd that not a single paki here reads the indian press - do you guys even have a press ?
#174 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 6:17:39 pm
#173 rabid macaca had a busy day today i see on chowk. :-)
#173 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 3:52:28 pm
#171 by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 2:43pm PT
but if it makes you feel any better
No..it doesn`t make me feel any better..in fact, it makes me worry...a paki calling himself an Indian is still a jihadi...
but if it makes you feel any better
No..it doesn`t make me feel any better..in fact, it makes me worry...a paki calling himself an Indian is still a jihadi...
#172 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 3:08:28 pm
Re: # 171
Sure - we have been hearing that for a while now... but who would that good looking paki be?... I mean - apart from a couple of cricket players like Imran Khan - who else is a good looking paki that we can verify this claim on? men, women - both... give us some examples...
On our side - we have the entire bollywood... who do you have on your side?... :)
Sure - we have been hearing that for a while now... but who would that good looking paki be?... I mean - apart from a couple of cricket players like Imran Khan - who else is a good looking paki that we can verify this claim on? men, women - both... give us some examples...
On our side - we have the entire bollywood... who do you have on your side?... :)
#171 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 2:43:55 pm
Re: # 170
arjun,
..... i don`t think it is nice to knock captain clueless when he is not here to defend himself - i am sure there is some truth to his claims of feeding some starving indian code coolies even though, as we all know, it doesn`t take much to cook up some idlee on a banana leaf .......... but i will grant you that there are some, hopefully not many, shameless pakis who will stoop to the level of claiming to be indians ........... but if it makes you feel any better, i will admit that contrary to my protestations, there is not a heck of a lot of difference between your `northies` and our punjabi or your bihari and our biharis - madrasis, tamilians and naidus are of course another breed ........... sometimes a paki is just a good looking indian with an attitude ........
arjun,
..... i don`t think it is nice to knock captain clueless when he is not here to defend himself - i am sure there is some truth to his claims of feeding some starving indian code coolies even though, as we all know, it doesn`t take much to cook up some idlee on a banana leaf .......... but i will grant you that there are some, hopefully not many, shameless pakis who will stoop to the level of claiming to be indians ........... but if it makes you feel any better, i will admit that contrary to my protestations, there is not a heck of a lot of difference between your `northies` and our punjabi or your bihari and our biharis - madrasis, tamilians and naidus are of course another breed ........... sometimes a paki is just a good looking indian with an attitude ........
#170 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 1:21:41 pm
#168 by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 1:02pm PT
The pakis in little pakistan in brooklyn were trying to pass themselves off as indians when the INS was targeting pakis for deportation....
When the INS comes calling, pakis leave their honor and dignity behind...all the talk about beign a hotshot IT businessman employing Indians and ``helping CIO/VP types set up their IT departments`` gets left behind on the road to canuckistan....
The pakis in little pakistan in brooklyn were trying to pass themselves off as indians when the INS was targeting pakis for deportation....
When the INS comes calling, pakis leave their honor and dignity behind...all the talk about beign a hotshot IT businessman employing Indians and ``helping CIO/VP types set up their IT departments`` gets left behind on the road to canuckistan....
#169 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 1:10:52 pm
Re: # 168
I understand your predicament , mr hamid gopinath, but sometimes you simply don`t have a choice... with daisy-cutters, hellfires raining down - what can you do? :)
I understand your predicament , mr hamid gopinath, but sometimes you simply don`t have a choice... with daisy-cutters, hellfires raining down - what can you do? :)
#168 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 1:02:37 pm
Re: # 167
mohar mian,
..... if i was in the restaurant business, i too would call my desi joint an `indian` restaurant - it is simply good business sense even though it hurts because it implies that idlee is food fit for human consumption ............ but i still can`t imagine any self-respecting, or even self-hating paki calling themseves an indian even though they might not want to wear one of romair`s t-shirts ........ it would be like an armenian passing himself of as a turk, or a serbian proudly claiming to be a croat or, worse yet, an american calling himself a canadian ............. sorry
mohar mian,
..... if i was in the restaurant business, i too would call my desi joint an `indian` restaurant - it is simply good business sense even though it hurts because it implies that idlee is food fit for human consumption ............ but i still can`t imagine any self-respecting, or even self-hating paki calling themseves an indian even though they might not want to wear one of romair`s t-shirts ........ it would be like an armenian passing himself of as a turk, or a serbian proudly claiming to be a croat or, worse yet, an american calling himself a canadian ............. sorry
#167 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 12:45:20 pm
Re: # 166
Sure - nothing is more insulting then being called a hinud... but after 9/11, things are pretty tight for pakis, so passing off as a hinud ain`t that bad no more....
Not to talk of all those pakis who run ``indian`` restaurants....
Sure - nothing is more insulting then being called a hinud... but after 9/11, things are pretty tight for pakis, so passing off as a hinud ain`t that bad no more....
Not to talk of all those pakis who run ``indian`` restaurants....
#166 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 12:19:43 pm
Re: # 164
mohar,
...... i hate to burst your bubble, but i really can`t imagine any pakistani - not even the most morally decrepit - trying to pass himself off as an indian .............when my two girls fight and run out of the usual derogatory epithets like creep, butt-head, freak, zit, dweeb, witch and brittany, the ultimate insult is always, ``you look like an indian!``.............at this point the cussee starts crying and the cussor walks away triumpahtly ............
mohar,
...... i hate to burst your bubble, but i really can`t imagine any pakistani - not even the most morally decrepit - trying to pass himself off as an indian .............when my two girls fight and run out of the usual derogatory epithets like creep, butt-head, freak, zit, dweeb, witch and brittany, the ultimate insult is always, ``you look like an indian!``.............at this point the cussee starts crying and the cussor walks away triumpahtly ............
#165 Posted by arjun2 on January 1, 2007 11:05:21 am
#164 by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 10:32am PT
The pakis were down with this when the taliban was doing the killing..now watch them come out from under their rocks and fake outrage..when the taliban was in power, the pakis were busy writing letters and making the case for the world to accept the ``ground realities`` and recognize the taliban government...
what goes around, comes around...
http://www.rawa.org/na-killings.htm
Mohammed arrived at Qala Zeini about 7 that evening. Several other container trucks were already waiting inside the fort. So were about 150 soldiers, all Afghans. At about 9, the prisoners—a mix of Afghans, Pakistanis, Arabs and Chechens—arrived from Yerganak in open trucks and pickups. Soldiers ordered the prisoners down from the trucks and stripped them of their turbans, caps and vests. Then they herded the captives into the containers, as many as 200 to a truck. The fighters realized they were not going home, as promised. “F—k Shamuk Naseri,” one driver recalls a prisoner’s screaming. “He betrayed us.” The doors of the container trucks were locked.
The prisoners probably realized their fate. “Death by container” has been a cheap means of mass murder used by both the Taliban and the Northern Alliance for at —least five years. Abandoned freight containers—international standard size, 40 feet by 8 feet by 8 feet—litter the roads of Afghanistan, rusting reminders of the many tons of aid that have poured into the country over the past 20 years. It was reputedly a savage Uzbek general named Malik Pahlawan who first saw the container’s potential as a killing machine in 1997. After a Taliban assault on Mazar-e Sharif had been repulsed, Pahlawan—according to a subsequent U.N. report—killed some 1,250 Taliban by leaving them in containers in the desert sun. When the containers were opened, it was found the inmates had been grilled black. When the Taliban took Mazar-e Sharif in 1998, they in turn killed several hundred enemies in thesame fashion.
$750 FOR AN AIR HOLE
The following day, Nov. 30, a fresh convoy of seven trucks arrived at Sheberghan. The day after, Dec. 1, brought a third convoy—also seven trucks. NEWSWEEK has traced drivers from both later convoys. Their recollections are that most of those containers contained many dead bodies. But not all. The inmates of one truck in those convoys passed about 45,000 Pakistani rupees (about $750) to the driver through a crack in the floor as a bribe to cut air holes and spray in water through a hose. All 150 inmates survived. In at least one container, the prisoners themselves managed to rip holes in the wooden floor, and all of them survived.
Abdul, a 28-year-old pashtun, is one who lived. NEWSWEEK interviewed him in Sheberghan prison. He recalls that his container was packed to the breaking point. After nearly 24 hours without water, Abdul says, the prisoners were so desperate with thirst that they began licking the sweat off each other’s bodies. Some prisoners began to lose their reason and started biting those around them. Abdul’s was one of the containers in the third convoy to Sheberghan: by the time they reached the prison, he says, only 20 to 30 in his container were alive.
PACKED ‘LIKE CATTLE’
For some, the agony in the containers was intensified because they were tied up. This appears to have been a fate reserved for Pakistani—and perhaps other non-Afghan—prisoners. Mahmood, 20, says he surrendered at Konduz along with 1,500 other Pakistanis. All were bound hand and foot either with their own turbans or with strips ripped from their clothing, he says. Then they were packed in container trucks “like cattle,” he says. He reckons that about 100 people died in his container.
The pakis were down with this when the taliban was doing the killing..now watch them come out from under their rocks and fake outrage..when the taliban was in power, the pakis were busy writing letters and making the case for the world to accept the ``ground realities`` and recognize the taliban government...
what goes around, comes around...
http://www.rawa.org/na-killings.htm
Mohammed arrived at Qala Zeini about 7 that evening. Several other container trucks were already waiting inside the fort. So were about 150 soldiers, all Afghans. At about 9, the prisoners—a mix of Afghans, Pakistanis, Arabs and Chechens—arrived from Yerganak in open trucks and pickups. Soldiers ordered the prisoners down from the trucks and stripped them of their turbans, caps and vests. Then they herded the captives into the containers, as many as 200 to a truck. The fighters realized they were not going home, as promised. “F—k Shamuk Naseri,” one driver recalls a prisoner’s screaming. “He betrayed us.” The doors of the container trucks were locked.
The prisoners probably realized their fate. “Death by container” has been a cheap means of mass murder used by both the Taliban and the Northern Alliance for at —least five years. Abandoned freight containers—international standard size, 40 feet by 8 feet by 8 feet—litter the roads of Afghanistan, rusting reminders of the many tons of aid that have poured into the country over the past 20 years. It was reputedly a savage Uzbek general named Malik Pahlawan who first saw the container’s potential as a killing machine in 1997. After a Taliban assault on Mazar-e Sharif had been repulsed, Pahlawan—according to a subsequent U.N. report—killed some 1,250 Taliban by leaving them in containers in the desert sun. When the containers were opened, it was found the inmates had been grilled black. When the Taliban took Mazar-e Sharif in 1998, they in turn killed several hundred enemies in thesame fashion.
$750 FOR AN AIR HOLE
The following day, Nov. 30, a fresh convoy of seven trucks arrived at Sheberghan. The day after, Dec. 1, brought a third convoy—also seven trucks. NEWSWEEK has traced drivers from both later convoys. Their recollections are that most of those containers contained many dead bodies. But not all. The inmates of one truck in those convoys passed about 45,000 Pakistani rupees (about $750) to the driver through a crack in the floor as a bribe to cut air holes and spray in water through a hose. All 150 inmates survived. In at least one container, the prisoners themselves managed to rip holes in the wooden floor, and all of them survived.
Abdul, a 28-year-old pashtun, is one who lived. NEWSWEEK interviewed him in Sheberghan prison. He recalls that his container was packed to the breaking point. After nearly 24 hours without water, Abdul says, the prisoners were so desperate with thirst that they began licking the sweat off each other’s bodies. Some prisoners began to lose their reason and started biting those around them. Abdul’s was one of the containers in the third convoy to Sheberghan: by the time they reached the prison, he says, only 20 to 30 in his container were alive.
PACKED ‘LIKE CATTLE’
For some, the agony in the containers was intensified because they were tied up. This appears to have been a fate reserved for Pakistani—and perhaps other non-Afghan—prisoners. Mahmood, 20, says he surrendered at Konduz along with 1,500 other Pakistanis. All were bound hand and foot either with their own turbans or with strips ripped from their clothing, he says. Then they were packed in container trucks “like cattle,” he says. He reckons that about 100 people died in his container.
#164 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 10:32:43 am
Coming back to Paki-Afgan relations: the other day I was watching ``road to gitmo`` movie... a bunch of brit pakis were in wrong place at wrong time and got their a$$es transported to Gitmo....
It showed how much afgans hate you pakis... Funny part was when their afgan captors ask for their names - the brit-paki gives his false name as ``Ramesh``... when chips are down, pakis always remember grandpa gopinath... :)
It showed how much afgans hate you pakis... Funny part was when their afgan captors ask for their names - the brit-paki gives his false name as ``Ramesh``... when chips are down, pakis always remember grandpa gopinath... :)
#163 Posted by hamidm2 on January 1, 2007 9:47:36 am
Re: # 161
mohar,
....... stop bothering maulana masadi - he is an armchair jihadi who fights his battles in lululand ........ he is not the type to go and sit in a cave with smelly bearded men of dubious sexual orientation and eat scorpions and termites - he is used to cheese supplied by usda .......... all he wants is tenure at prarie view a&m so that he can continue to rant and rave against the american elite, zionists, ahmedis, pigs and hindoos ............
mohar,
....... stop bothering maulana masadi - he is an armchair jihadi who fights his battles in lululand ........ he is not the type to go and sit in a cave with smelly bearded men of dubious sexual orientation and eat scorpions and termites - he is used to cheese supplied by usda .......... all he wants is tenure at prarie view a&m so that he can continue to rant and rave against the american elite, zionists, ahmedis, pigs and hindoos ............
#162 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 9:27:40 am
#160 masadi: better glitter and no substance, than diatribes mixed with lies and insults and no substance. :-)
#161 Posted by mohar11 on January 1, 2007 9:15:27 am
Re: # 157 masadi
indigineously staffed US occupation force ?? LOL... ha ha...
nevertheless - are you ready to fight the indigineously staffed occupation forces?... that will lead to civil war, you know....
indigineously staffed US occupation force ?? LOL... ha ha...
nevertheless - are you ready to fight the indigineously staffed occupation forces?... that will lead to civil war, you know....
#160 Posted by masadi on January 1, 2007 8:37:17 am
mirasi-khan quoting Khalid Hassan <<< Conspiracy as a cause of events is a constant in Pakistan. The theory is packaged in a paradigm that can be slapped on any situation. In other societies conspiracy theories are marginal; in Pakistan they are mainstream >>>
A most ignorant and illiterate way to start any article. One wonders what ``research`` KH or Qadeer have done to arrive at that conclusion. Then one only needs to look at the paranoid atmosphere that the US elite have created all through their farcial war with communism and now with the ``Islamists`` to confirm that nobody but nobody gets more ``mainstream`` in conspiracy mongering than US society, as it dominates the media airwaves around the globe and dictates its agenda. Qadeer, judging by this article is a third rate, ``old wives tale`` spewing social scientist if at all. It is also no secret or conspiracy that the CIA sets up propaganda outfits to spew just such nonsense and the source from which mirasi khan is quoting quite possibly is one of their such outfits, like ``radio free Iraq``.
A most ignorant and illiterate way to start any article. One wonders what ``research`` KH or Qadeer have done to arrive at that conclusion. Then one only needs to look at the paranoid atmosphere that the US elite have created all through their farcial war with communism and now with the ``Islamists`` to confirm that nobody but nobody gets more ``mainstream`` in conspiracy mongering than US society, as it dominates the media airwaves around the globe and dictates its agenda. Qadeer, judging by this article is a third rate, ``old wives tale`` spewing social scientist if at all. It is also no secret or conspiracy that the CIA sets up propaganda outfits to spew just such nonsense and the source from which mirasi khan is quoting quite possibly is one of their such outfits, like ``radio free Iraq``.
#158 Posted by tahmed32 on January 1, 2007 8:08:11 am
#157 Posted by masadi on January 1, 2007 7:41:56 am
mohar writes <<< masadi - talk to me.... are you ready to fight your own military? >>>
It is not our ``own`` military, it is an indigineously staffed US occupation force.
It is not our ``own`` military, it is an indigineously staffed US occupation force.
#156 Posted by ijaz_gul on January 1, 2007 2:50:07 am
With due refrence to Khalid, he is better off writing on onions. He has chosen to seek pastures in a greener land rather than rough it here with his social capital.
1. Individuals in Pakistan like most countries in South Asia have very little influence on what the state does. In the Civil Society, the state occupies the major space and therefore is logically blamed for all the bad policies, corruption, inertia etc. There is very little left to the civic bodies to formulate and implement.
2. Nation States have more than often thrived on conspiracy theories. The Bay of Pigs, Bomber and Missile Gap are the few cases in point. The most recent is the Clash of Civilisations. The theme has become propriety of the commerer and anyone who has not even read it or its criticim, feels qualified to comment and endorse it. The present insatbility that engulfs the Muslim Ummah reinforces this perception.
3. Qadeer appears to be just another psuedo across the Atlantic with a mis directed pea shooter.
4. I wish BalluKhan can subsatiate this study with some good primary sources and research material.
5. For a change
Jheerios
1. Individuals in Pakistan like most countries in South Asia have very little influence on what the state does. In the Civil Society, the state occupies the major space and therefore is logically blamed for all the bad policies, corruption, inertia etc. There is very little left to the civic bodies to formulate and implement.
2. Nation States have more than often thrived on conspiracy theories. The Bay of Pigs, Bomber and Missile Gap are the few cases in point. The most recent is the Clash of Civilisations. The theme has become propriety of the commerer and anyone who has not even read it or its criticim, feels qualified to comment and endorse it. The present insatbility that engulfs the Muslim Ummah reinforces this perception.
3. Qadeer appears to be just another psuedo across the Atlantic with a mis directed pea shooter.
4. I wish BalluKhan can subsatiate this study with some good primary sources and research material.
5. For a change
Jheerios
#155 Posted by ballukhan on January 1, 2007 1:16:17 am
POSTCARD USA: Ah! the Pakistani mindset! —Khalid Hasan
Conspiracy as a cause of events is a constant in Pakistan. The theory is packaged in a paradigm that can be slapped on any situation. In other societies conspiracy theories are marginal; in Pakistan they are mainstream
Finally, somebody has worked out as to what ails Pakistanis. The Columbus of this effort is Mohammad Abdul Qadeer, professor emeritus at the School of Urban and Regional Planning at Queen’ University, Kingston, Canada. He lives in Toronto. I suppose you need to be physically at a distance from what you are observing to get its contours right. When you are close, you can’t see the wood for the trees.
Qadeer, who once wrote a book on Lahore from a sociologist’s and urban planner’s point of view, when told that Pakistan had won a hard-fought Security Council seat, beating India, observed, “What Pakistan needs is not a seat on the Security Council but more public toilets in Lahore.” He has just published a book in London on Pakistan and what our social strengths and foibles are. He has devoted a section of the work to the Pakistani mindset and he seems to have got it right.
Qadeer writes that the Pakistani way of perceiving and apprehending reality has been forged in the crucible of an agrarian economy and caste-clan relations. While being an evolving structure of many different parts, the Pakistani mindset is marked by a set of persistent assumptions. We tend to personalise the impersonal. Whether the event to be explained is a flood, poverty, a child’s truancy or marital unhappiness, it is attributed to someone else’s manipulation, malevolent intentions — and when it is something positive — to outside goodwill. The prime mover of every event is believed to be a person. Social or economic processes and even physical forces play a secondary role in the standard Pakistani narrative.
The popular explanation, Qadeer writes, for the break-up of Pakistan in 1971 is Yahya’s, Mujib’s and/or Bhutto’s treachery. A more institutional explanation ends up blaming the Bengalis, India and/or the United States. Pakistanis studying at American universities have a standard explanation if they fail a course. “My professor was prejudiced because I am a Muslim or because I was a person of colour.” And if the student scores a success, it is attributed to his unassailable intellectual and academic superiority. In Pakistan, every occurrence has to have a human agent behind it. Over time, this has been reinforced by the corruption, nepotism and capriciousness of the state. Everyday life is based on ad hoc decisions and personalised dealings. This manifests itself in blaming others and weaving conspiracy theories.
Blaming others, Qadeer argues, has been burnished into a philosophy. He offers examples. The Pakistan Engineers Association blamed foreign consultants and the WAPDA chief for the Tarbela Dam’s cracks. Zionists and Hindus were blamed for breaking up Pakistan, ‘the citadel of Islam’. Terrorism and violence when it first occurred in Karachi was seen as the work of ‘the hidden hand’. NGOs are viewed as engaged in corrupting Pakistani women. If an employee fails to get promoted, it is attributed to the stronger connections of the person who did get promoted. It can also be the boss’s ethnic prejudice.
Qadeer writes that “from blaming others to believing in active plotting by enemies, imagined or real, is a short step. The Pakistani mindset is predisposed to presume conspiracy as the driving force of many events.” The roster of conspiring agents varies with the ideological disposition of the proponent and with the political or social tenor of times. In the 1960s, it was India, the communists and the CIA who were the plotters. The Jews and Israelis were added to the list after the 1967 war. Bhutto in his waning days proclaimed that the Americans had conspired to punish him for his friendship with China and for his fathering of the ‘Islamic’ bomb.
In the 1980s with the Soviets in Afghanistan, they were seen as primarily responsible for the turmoil in Pakistan. The Afghan ‘jihad’ spun out a new strain of conspiracy theories that have morphed into the militant Islamist creed of America, “the perpetrator of the clash of civilisations” and the leader of the infidels. The Ahmadis were blamed for most of the problems in Pakistan’s early days. Rival sects of Deobandis and Barelvis have blamed each other for Pakistan’s sectarian strife.
Qadeer points out that one person’s conspirator is the victim for the other side. Conspiracy as a cause of events is a constant. The theory is packaged in a paradigm that can be slapped on any situation. In other societies conspiracy theories are marginal; in Pakistan they are mainstream. Responsible people propound them and school textbooks offer them as historical truths. Then there is the Pakistani doublethink. The West is portrayed as immoral and yet almost everyone wishes to migrate to the West.
Road traffic in Pakistan is another example of doublethink. Drivers curse others for breaking the rules, yet routinely run red lights, drive on the wrong side of the road or tailgate. The archetype of the Mard-e-Mujahid or the Holy Warrior is embedded in the Pakistani psyche. Pakistanis also believe that given the right connections, anything can be fixed. The pursuit of the ‘fix’ feeds back on the state, making it all the more arbitrary. The ‘Dubai challo’ culture is strong and underscores Pakistani enterprise and the desire to pursue success and advancement in life. The Pakistani diaspora continues to grow.
Pakistanis, Qadeer notes, are verbose. Most people make speeches rather than ask questions. He ends by quoting that superb intellectual Eqbal Ahmed who wrote on the 50th anniversary of Pakistan’s independence, “The most striking feature of our national life has been the equanimity with which our elite has experienced disasters. We are consumed by appetites of life and devoid of moral instincts.”
And it will be a bold man indeed who will speak after Eqbal Ahmed has spoken.
Khalid Hasan is Daily Times’ US-based correspondent. His e-mail is khasan2@cox.net
Home | Editorial
Conspiracy as a cause of events is a constant in Pakistan. The theory is packaged in a paradigm that can be slapped on any situation. In other societies conspiracy theories are marginal; in Pakistan they are mainstream
Finally, somebody has worked out as to what ails Pakistanis. The Columbus of this effort is Mohammad Abdul Qadeer, professor emeritus at the School of Urban and Regional Planning at Queen’ University, Kingston, Canada. He lives in Toronto. I suppose you need to be physically at a distance from what you are observing to get its contours right. When you are close, you can’t see the wood for the trees.
Qadeer, who once wrote a book on Lahore from a sociologist’s and urban planner’s point of view, when told that Pakistan had won a hard-fought Security Council seat, beating India, observed, “What Pakistan needs is not a seat on the Security Council but more public toilets in Lahore.” He has just published a book in London on Pakistan and what our social strengths and foibles are. He has devoted a section of the work to the Pakistani mindset and he seems to have got it right.
Qadeer writes that the Pakistani way of perceiving and apprehending reality has been forged in the crucible of an agrarian economy and caste-clan relations. While being an evolving structure of many different parts, the Pakistani mindset is marked by a set of persistent assumptions. We tend to personalise the impersonal. Whether the event to be explained is a flood, poverty, a child’s truancy or marital unhappiness, it is attributed to someone else’s manipulation, malevolent intentions — and when it is something positive — to outside goodwill. The prime mover of every event is believed to be a person. Social or economic processes and even physical forces play a secondary role in the standard Pakistani narrative.
The popular explanation, Qadeer writes, for the break-up of Pakistan in 1971 is Yahya’s, Mujib’s and/or Bhutto’s treachery. A more institutional explanation ends up blaming the Bengalis, India and/or the United States. Pakistanis studying at American universities have a standard explanation if they fail a course. “My professor was prejudiced because I am a Muslim or because I was a person of colour.” And if the student scores a success, it is attributed to his unassailable intellectual and academic superiority. In Pakistan, every occurrence has to have a human agent behind it. Over time, this has been reinforced by the corruption, nepotism and capriciousness of the state. Everyday life is based on ad hoc decisions and personalised dealings. This manifests itself in blaming others and weaving conspiracy theories.
Blaming others, Qadeer argues, has been burnished into a philosophy. He offers examples. The Pakistan Engineers Association blamed foreign consultants and the WAPDA chief for the Tarbela Dam’s cracks. Zionists and Hindus were blamed for breaking up Pakistan, ‘the citadel of Islam’. Terrorism and violence when it first occurred in Karachi was seen as the work of ‘the hidden hand’. NGOs are viewed as engaged in corrupting Pakistani women. If an employee fails to get promoted, it is attributed to the stronger connections of the person who did get promoted. It can also be the boss’s ethnic prejudice.
Qadeer writes that “from blaming others to believing in active plotting by enemies, imagined or real, is a short step. The Pakistani mindset is predisposed to presume conspiracy as the driving force of many events.” The roster of conspiring agents varies with the ideological disposition of the proponent and with the political or social tenor of times. In the 1960s, it was India, the communists and the CIA who were the plotters. The Jews and Israelis were added to the list after the 1967 war. Bhutto in his waning days proclaimed that the Americans had conspired to punish him for his friendship with China and for his fathering of the ‘Islamic’ bomb.
In the 1980s with the Soviets in Afghanistan, they were seen as primarily responsible for the turmoil in Pakistan. The Afghan ‘jihad’ spun out a new strain of conspiracy theories that have morphed into the militant Islamist creed of America, “the perpetrator of the clash of civilisations” and the leader of the infidels. The Ahmadis were blamed for most of the problems in Pakistan’s early days. Rival sects of Deobandis and Barelvis have blamed each other for Pakistan’s sectarian strife.
Qadeer points out that one person’s conspirator is the victim for the other side. Conspiracy as a cause of events is a constant. The theory is packaged in a paradigm that can be slapped on any situation. In other societies conspiracy theories are marginal; in Pakistan they are mainstream. Responsible people propound them and school textbooks offer them as historical truths. Then there is the Pakistani doublethink. The West is portrayed as immoral and yet almost everyone wishes to migrate to the West.
Road traffic in Pakistan is another example of doublethink. Drivers curse others for breaking the rules, yet routinely run red lights, drive on the wrong side of the road or tailgate. The archetype of the Mard-e-Mujahid or the Holy Warrior is embedded in the Pakistani psyche. Pakistanis also believe that given the right connections, anything can be fixed. The pursuit of the ‘fix’ feeds back on the state, making it all the more arbitrary. The ‘Dubai challo’ culture is strong and underscores Pakistani enterprise and the desire to pursue success and advancement in life. The Pakistani diaspora continues to grow.
Pakistanis, Qadeer notes, are verbose. Most people make speeches rather than ask questions. He ends by quoting that superb intellectual Eqbal Ahmed who wrote on the 50th anniversary of Pakistan’s independence, “The most striking feature of our national life has been the equanimity with which our elite has experienced disasters. We are consumed by appetites of life and devoid of moral instincts.”
And it will be a bold man indeed who will speak after Eqbal Ahmed has spoken.
Khalid Hasan is Daily Times’ US-based correspondent. His e-mail is khasan2@cox.net
Home | Editorial
#154 Posted by sri on December 31, 2006 9:01:22 pm
#151 by HP
LOL....
But seriously, there is a major difference between these comedians.
All the children of the world seem to love Santa and stand in line to take their pictures with him at the local mall. Mullahs, Maulanas and Sadhus however scare the bejesus out of the little ones. Mullahs and Maulanas seriously need to crawl out of their 7th century caves to discover the benefit of toothpaste and mouthwash. Sadhus however, well, may I suggest carwash ....
#153 Posted by hamidm2 on December 31, 2006 8:02:43 pm
Re: # 145
urstruly,
...... you have nice legs !
urstruly,
...... you have nice legs !
#152 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2006 7:30:10 pm
masadi - talk to me.... are you ready to fight your own military?
#151 Posted by HP on December 31, 2006 3:42:35 pm
Hey Urstruly,
Seems like both father and the son in that picture have poor luck with the law enforcement......
Don`t despair... here is Santa for you...
Along with another religious comedian known as Sadhu....
#150 Posted by arjun2 on December 31, 2006 3:13:03 pm
#145 by Urstruly on December 31, 2006 11:56am PT
allah giveth and allah taketh away(pants, that is)...
maulana urstruly: the next time you are in the land of the pure, make sure you wear clean underwear everyday...never know when this might happen to you..
of course, they might just sell you to the US government like mushy said he did with other jihadis..how much do you think the land of the pure can get for you? 10K$?
allah giveth and allah taketh away(pants, that is)...
maulana urstruly: the next time you are in the land of the pure, make sure you wear clean underwear everyday...never know when this might happen to you..
of course, they might just sell you to the US government like mushy said he did with other jihadis..how much do you think the land of the pure can get for you? 10K$?
#149 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2006 1:26:33 pm
Re: # 144 masadi
So what are you going to do about it big guy?... are you ready fight your own military?...
So what are you going to do about it big guy?... are you ready fight your own military?...
#148 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2006 1:24:11 pm
Re: # 145
Yep... the military chicken has come home to roost... there is nothing you pakis can do about it... if you fight your own military - it will lead to a bloody civil war... are you guys ready for that?...
Yep... the military chicken has come home to roost... there is nothing you pakis can do about it... if you fight your own military - it will lead to a bloody civil war... are you guys ready for that?...
#147 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2006 1:20:30 pm
Re: # 146
Sad indeed... but who is surprised?... you pakis have knowingly handed over your fate over to the generals and tinpots - your paranoia and delusions of grandeur has led you to this state of degradation and instability... instead of setting up a nation based on equality, pluralism, constitutional rule of law- you guys have guided yourselves based on islamism, jihad, military adventurism and hate for kufrs...
And nothing has changed...even today, you are still talking about ``unfinished business of partition`` which is nothing but veiled hate towards hinuds and their nation... in a poll taken last week - majority pakis favored military rule - only country to do so in south asia...
sad indeed...
Sad indeed... but who is surprised?... you pakis have knowingly handed over your fate over to the generals and tinpots - your paranoia and delusions of grandeur has led you to this state of degradation and instability... instead of setting up a nation based on equality, pluralism, constitutional rule of law- you guys have guided yourselves based on islamism, jihad, military adventurism and hate for kufrs...
And nothing has changed...even today, you are still talking about ``unfinished business of partition`` which is nothing but veiled hate towards hinuds and their nation... in a poll taken last week - majority pakis favored military rule - only country to do so in south asia...
sad indeed...
#146 Posted by zeemax on December 31, 2006 12:26:20 pm
I recently had occasion to meet some serving generals ... it is mind boggling to see their mindsets ... I got the impression that they really believe ... solidly ... that they own Pakistan lock stock & barrel. First right is theirs, everyone else can only take what they throw away.
Sad ...
Sad ...
#145 Posted by Urstruly on December 31, 2006 11:56:22 am
WHERE IS MY FATHER???
May Allah destroy napak fauj and humiliate them as they oppress people of Pakistan.
Go to hell m`fukkers
#144 Posted by masadi on December 31, 2006 11:05:29 am
re:143
They are the few, we are the many...that is what you forget in this whole scenario of brutality
They are the few, we are the many...that is what you forget in this whole scenario of brutality
#143 Posted by arjun2 on December 31, 2006 10:25:59 am
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#142 Posted by masadi on December 31, 2006 9:42:59 am
okhla (the sob) writes <<< We in the subcontinent MUST ensure that the extremist mindsets are eliminated at the earliest.
And that includes you, Masadi.... >>>
This is quite amusing, accuse your opponent of being ``extremist`` and then asking for his elimination and then parading as being a moderate. Reminds me of those that destroy countries and then while labelling their opponents extremist because they don`t share in their inhumane worldview. Your friend here is forgetting that unlike the ``Islamists``, the US elite control the media and justifying their reprehensible behavior and unmatched barbarism in using this media for their perverse ends, by saying its `payback` time is not only ignorantly idiotic it is pathetically and blatantly shallow and dishonest in analysis. Neither you, nor your dictator friend neither your threats of violence scare me. I am not as vested in this world your tyrant friends have created, in other words I have nothing to lose but the world has much to gain with resisting the oppressors...
And that includes you, Masadi.... >>>
This is quite amusing, accuse your opponent of being ``extremist`` and then asking for his elimination and then parading as being a moderate. Reminds me of those that destroy countries and then while labelling their opponents extremist because they don`t share in their inhumane worldview. Your friend here is forgetting that unlike the ``Islamists``, the US elite control the media and justifying their reprehensible behavior and unmatched barbarism in using this media for their perverse ends, by saying its `payback` time is not only ignorantly idiotic it is pathetically and blatantly shallow and dishonest in analysis. Neither you, nor your dictator friend neither your threats of violence scare me. I am not as vested in this world your tyrant friends have created, in other words I have nothing to lose but the world has much to gain with resisting the oppressors...
#141 Posted by ijaz_gul on December 31, 2006 9:18:34 am
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/6b4d7076-9836-11db-b2ac-0000779e2340.html
Violence marks news of Saddam’s execution
BySteve Negus, Iraq Correspondent
Published: December 30 2006 19:27 | Last updated: December 30 2006 19:27
Street celebrations and a handful of angry protests erupted in Iraq’s streets early this morning, as the country awoke to the news that former president Saddam Hussein, who had overshadowed Iraqi public life for over three decades, had been put to death.
However, a series of blasts in mostly Shia areas left at least 68 Iraqis dead, while six US troops were reported killed, pushing the death toll for December to 109 and making it the worst month for US forces in two years.
Word of Saddam’s execution broke on state television early in the morning, accompanied at first by patriotic music and archival footage of his security men beheading and beating their victims, then later by pictures of the deposed president being prepared for his hanging.
In the largely Shia suburb of Sadr City, citizens fired into the air, handed out sweets and paraded down the street in their cars. One resident said that he felt a surge of joy the night before as news reports suggested that Saddam’s execution, which he had suspected the wily dictator might yet escape, was becoming an inevitability.
Sunni parts of the country witnessed several demonstrations, reported to be a few hundred strong. But car bombs detonated by presumed Sunni insurgents ripped through a fish market in the southern Iraqi city of Kufa and the predominantly Shia district of Hurriya. It was unclear whether they were planted specifically to avenge the former president.
The different reactions and the continued sectarian violence reflect the legacy of Saddam’s regime, which was dominated by Sunni Arabs and and brutally repressed Shia religious and political movements.
The execution is unlikely to bridge this divide, as perceptions of Saddam’s hanging differ radically between Sunni Arab and Shia. Even the timing of his hanging seemed to reinforce the sectarian gap – although Iraqi law bans executions during religious holidays, it took place just as the Sunni’s Eid al-Adha feast was beginning. Shia begin celebrations a day later.
However, Saddam’s death could bolster the confidence of the Shia parties which dominate the government, who are fighting to shore up their popularity among their own constituency.
Many Shia claimed to doubt that Saddam would actually be executed, leaving the door open to a possible return of his ruling Baath party to power.
Even the last minutes of Saddam’s life seemed to reinforce that the old order was gone for good. One of the witnesses, Judge Munir Haddad, was quoted by CNN as saying that as the noose was being tightened around Saddam’s neck, one of the hangmen shouted out “Long live Moqtada al-Sadr.”
“Moqtada al-Sadr,” said Saddam mockingly, of the radical young cleric Shia who could hardly have been of much consequence to him while he was president, but who now is among the most powerful men in Iraq. According to the report, those were Saddam’s last words.
Violence marks news of Saddam’s execution
BySteve Negus, Iraq Correspondent
Published: December 30 2006 19:27 | Last updated: December 30 2006 19:27
Street celebrations and a handful of angry protests erupted in Iraq’s streets early this morning, as the country awoke to the news that former president Saddam Hussein, who had overshadowed Iraqi public life for over three decades, had been put to death.
However, a series of blasts in mostly Shia areas left at least 68 Iraqis dead, while six US troops were reported killed, pushing the death toll for December to 109 and making it the worst month for US forces in two years.
Word of Saddam’s execution broke on state television early in the morning, accompanied at first by patriotic music and archival footage of his security men beheading and beating their victims, then later by pictures of the deposed president being prepared for his hanging.
In the largely Shia suburb of Sadr City, citizens fired into the air, handed out sweets and paraded down the street in their cars. One resident said that he felt a surge of joy the night before as news reports suggested that Saddam’s execution, which he had suspected the wily dictator might yet escape, was becoming an inevitability.
Sunni parts of the country witnessed several demonstrations, reported to be a few hundred strong. But car bombs detonated by presumed Sunni insurgents ripped through a fish market in the southern Iraqi city of Kufa and the predominantly Shia district of Hurriya. It was unclear whether they were planted specifically to avenge the former president.
The different reactions and the continued sectarian violence reflect the legacy of Saddam’s regime, which was dominated by Sunni Arabs and and brutally repressed Shia religious and political movements.
The execution is unlikely to bridge this divide, as perceptions of Saddam’s hanging differ radically between Sunni Arab and Shia. Even the timing of his hanging seemed to reinforce the sectarian gap – although Iraqi law bans executions during religious holidays, it took place just as the Sunni’s Eid al-Adha feast was beginning. Shia begin celebrations a day later.
However, Saddam’s death could bolster the confidence of the Shia parties which dominate the government, who are fighting to shore up their popularity among their own constituency.
Many Shia claimed to doubt that Saddam would actually be executed, leaving the door open to a possible return of his ruling Baath party to power.
Even the last minutes of Saddam’s life seemed to reinforce that the old order was gone for good. One of the witnesses, Judge Munir Haddad, was quoted by CNN as saying that as the noose was being tightened around Saddam’s neck, one of the hangmen shouted out “Long live Moqtada al-Sadr.”
“Moqtada al-Sadr,” said Saddam mockingly, of the radical young cleric Shia who could hardly have been of much consequence to him while he was president, but who now is among the most powerful men in Iraq. According to the report, those were Saddam’s last words.
#140 Posted by ijaz_gul on December 31, 2006 9:14:51 am
and Saddam retorted mockingly,
``Moqtada Sadr``
``Moqtada Sadr``
#139 Posted by arjun2 on December 31, 2006 7:53:07 am
this is going to drive allah`s chosen homies nuts...
`Hangmen taunted Saddam with Sadr chants`
Agencies
Posted online: Sunday, December 31, 2006 at 1449 hours IST
Baghdad, December 31: Saddam Hussein was sent to the gallows with a final mocking taunt - Shiite witnesses chanted the name of one of his most bitter opponents while the noose was readied.
In video footage of the execution, apparently captured on a mobile phone and spreading across the Internet, members of the party carrying out the hanging can be heard chanting ``Moqtada, Moqtada, Moqtada!``
The reference is to Moqtada al-Sadr, a radical Shiite cleric whose father Mohammed Bakr Sadr and whose uncle were murdered by Saddam`s agents, and who has risen to prominence since Saddam`s fall as a politician and militia leader.
One of the execution party calls: ``Long live Mohammed Bakr Sadr!``
`Hangmen taunted Saddam with Sadr chants`
Agencies
Posted online: Sunday, December 31, 2006 at 1449 hours IST
Baghdad, December 31: Saddam Hussein was sent to the gallows with a final mocking taunt - Shiite witnesses chanted the name of one of his most bitter opponents while the noose was readied.
In video footage of the execution, apparently captured on a mobile phone and spreading across the Internet, members of the party carrying out the hanging can be heard chanting ``Moqtada, Moqtada, Moqtada!``
The reference is to Moqtada al-Sadr, a radical Shiite cleric whose father Mohammed Bakr Sadr and whose uncle were murdered by Saddam`s agents, and who has risen to prominence since Saddam`s fall as a politician and militia leader.
One of the execution party calls: ``Long live Mohammed Bakr Sadr!``
#138 Posted by arjun2 on December 31, 2006 7:24:54 am
lincoln didn`t account for the pakis..apparently, it`s possible to fool all pakis all the time...which is why you have pakis thinking they won in 65 and kargil and the CIA bombing pakis on paki soil is a victory for pakiland..
How Ayub wasted the China card —Ahmad Faruqui
This episode of history is rich in lessons. First, Ayub should not have gone into a war without thinking through the consequences of sending his forces into Kashmir. He made a fatal error of generalship when he assumed that India would not retaliate against Lahore. This strategic myopia would be imitated by Yahya and Musharraf.
Ironically, by then China and the US had reconciled their differences. Both had a common interest in saving Pakistan. The US moved the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal but this did not deter Indira Gandhi from moving ahead with her war plans to invade Dhaka. According to an interview given many years later by General Sam Maneckshaw, who was then the Indian army chief, Indira Gandhi dismissed the American threat as irrelevant, saying everyone would be dead if Delhi was nuked. Later, the Americans revealed they never intended to attack Delhi. Their goal was simply to rescue American servicemen trapped in East Pakistan.
In the mean time, GHQ was telling Gen. Niazi that he would be bailed out by yellow from the north (Chinese) and blue from the south (Americans). When paratroopers began to land around his HQ, the feckless general sent his assistant to out to check their colours. He came back with really bad news. They were brown.
The fourth lesson is that it is always a bad idea to pick a fight with an adversary who is several times bigger and who has further armed himself with a cogent diplomatic strategy. And the final lesson is to say you won when you did not.
How Ayub wasted the China card —Ahmad Faruqui
This episode of history is rich in lessons. First, Ayub should not have gone into a war without thinking through the consequences of sending his forces into Kashmir. He made a fatal error of generalship when he assumed that India would not retaliate against Lahore. This strategic myopia would be imitated by Yahya and Musharraf.
Ironically, by then China and the US had reconciled their differences. Both had a common interest in saving Pakistan. The US moved the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal but this did not deter Indira Gandhi from moving ahead with her war plans to invade Dhaka. According to an interview given many years later by General Sam Maneckshaw, who was then the Indian army chief, Indira Gandhi dismissed the American threat as irrelevant, saying everyone would be dead if Delhi was nuked. Later, the Americans revealed they never intended to attack Delhi. Their goal was simply to rescue American servicemen trapped in East Pakistan.
In the mean time, GHQ was telling Gen. Niazi that he would be bailed out by yellow from the north (Chinese) and blue from the south (Americans). When paratroopers began to land around his HQ, the feckless general sent his assistant to out to check their colours. He came back with really bad news. They were brown.
The fourth lesson is that it is always a bad idea to pick a fight with an adversary who is several times bigger and who has further armed himself with a cogent diplomatic strategy. And the final lesson is to say you won when you did not.
#137 Posted by okhla99 on December 31, 2006 6:43:35 am
Re: # 136
That was shameful. Reprehensible behaivour cannot be condoned no matter who the perpetrator. Believe me, friend, no decent Muslim or Hindu could have possibly rejoiced at atrocious treatment, whether meted out to Capt Kalia or to Daniel Pearl or the innocent at Godhra or elsewhere.
We in the subcontinent MUST ensure that the extremist mindsets are eliminated at the earliest.
And that includes you, Masadi....
That was shameful. Reprehensible behaivour cannot be condoned no matter who the perpetrator. Believe me, friend, no decent Muslim or Hindu could have possibly rejoiced at atrocious treatment, whether meted out to Capt Kalia or to Daniel Pearl or the innocent at Godhra or elsewhere.
We in the subcontinent MUST ensure that the extremist mindsets are eliminated at the earliest.
And that includes you, Masadi....
#136 Posted by CoolAL on December 31, 2006 5:00:27 am
I find the hanging video very distasteful. It turned my stomach to be honest. It is quite easy to see why there is a such a large support across the globe for banning death sentences.
But having said the above, I was ripped when Islamists beheaded Daniel Pearl and countless others over the decades on camera and proudly crowed with delight. At that time, when this was issue brought up, all we heard was arrogant horse shit about how it is the duty of the faithful to kill -- dismember -- a kaffir and guarantee themselves a place in heaven. Now it is payback time. Surely, you islamists -- please note I am NOT talking about ordinary muslims here -- should understand the principle ``An eye for an eye``.
What I find breathtakingly amazing is that the same scum who scoff at anything non-islamic are talking about the Geneva Convention!!!! and POWs. I mean the same people who crowed with delight at the pain suffered by Indians when Capt. Saurabh Kalia`s patrol was ambushed and slaughtered.
But having said the above, I was ripped when Islamists beheaded Daniel Pearl and countless others over the decades on camera and proudly crowed with delight. At that time, when this was issue brought up, all we heard was arrogant horse shit about how it is the duty of the faithful to kill -- dismember -- a kaffir and guarantee themselves a place in heaven. Now it is payback time. Surely, you islamists -- please note I am NOT talking about ordinary muslims here -- should understand the principle ``An eye for an eye``.
What I find breathtakingly amazing is that the same scum who scoff at anything non-islamic are talking about the Geneva Convention!!!! and POWs. I mean the same people who crowed with delight at the pain suffered by Indians when Capt. Saurabh Kalia`s patrol was ambushed and slaughtered.
#135 Posted by bbabu on December 30, 2006 10:57:23 pm
Re: # 38
ijaz_gul #38
`` (The only thing Pakistan could do after 9/11 is to save your hide. Zalme Khalilzad is too busy in Iraq to be involved in Afghanistan).
How do u know that and what is he busy in? ``
Zalme Khalilzad has been ambassador to Iraq for the past year. Given the mess in Iraq I doubt he has any time for Afghanistan.
`` (Why spout typical ISI propaganda ? Are you getting paid for it ? do you have any answer as to why all the violence is concentrated in provinces along Pakistani border ?)
Anyove who knows Afghan and Pashtoon history can vouch for this. This is the polarisation that shall lay the seeds of re drawing. OK. As for pay roll, its my opinion and conciense. The Government of Pakistan said it now. I said it immediately after 9/11. Please take time to read my interacts of that era. ``
If the violence is concentrated along the Pakistan border it is safe to conclude that people formenting the violence are using Pakistan as a base with/without active support of Pakistani authorities. If you have a logical explanation please forward us.
`` (In the long run it is 80 million Punjabis in Pakistan versus 25 million Pusthuns in NWFP/Afghanistan. )
Yes, this is the wish list of many like you, giving urself away ``
Nope it is not my wish list. Punjabi elite in Pakistan has monopolized resources for their military, nukes, disputes with India. Unless resources are shifted to economic development the non-Punjabi groups will eventually want out. I presume you learnt something from 1971.
Why would Pakistani military back ``Islamic groups`