Pakistan-Afghanistan Relations: The Choice Between Alliance and Acrimony

Re: # 132

Salm bhai:

Ho Chin Minh the great did not live to see, Gandhi did. You must not forget.

85 - 15 % is not that critical. Really all cannot lead. Also, dont forget as pandits in temple look how many laddus you have brought in your thaali, to take care of you. Oil is the laddu in middle east. There are too many thaalis, and don`t forget pandit`s power to bait and switch. If 15% Shia`s have 50% oil then that is where the aciton is going to be, Salim Sahib. In Istanbul, may be not, I was stuck there with a german and turkish speaking taxi driver, you may not drive your memsahib, or your memsahib may not take credit card, but life style elsewhere, especially in mid-west, can be defined as

You and Hamidm believe in clash of civilzation, while I feel it is no such thing. This only keeps Islam entangled. I have read and attended Samuel Huntington`s talk a few years back, and even asked questions for fleeting moments that one can get during such talks. One can challenge his hypothesis on many grounds and he indeed concedes that his scenario does not have to play itself out. It charges passions. The issue is very basic, economic. 85% of developed economy depends upon that black crude, it would not let 85% of any one group control it. That is the issue, Salim Sahib. If one can put market forces to play out there, even then there will be problems, the oil prices can shoot, up as Chung Wo Bush and Gangarams are coming in as well.

The world became addicted to ``oil`` in less than 100 years. It can shift away as well. The addicted junkie cannot afford to switch from a cheap addiction to a new addiction yet. There is no compelling reason. When some wahabi`s or Iranian renegade force the addicts to move by having a nuke in his hand, the reality will sink quite fast. As the strategicians will collect their money, deciding if nuking of world economy can happen faster or transition can happen faster, and who is going to pay for the transition. The camel drivers money in the U.S. and European banks will get used one way or the other.

I recall as one of my classmates a Baharainian Shia Arab in 1972 (I had never met an arab shia till then) during the oil embargo, used to remind that as long as Arabs can transition back to their camels faster than rest of the world`s economy can move away from the cars, arabs will be needed with their stupidity. He was a wiseman from Arabia, Saim sahib. Saddam Hussein from his death cell was giving message through his american guard, that he was ready to talk to americans. Tell me what else can it be called?

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Anil Bhai,

I have despised Sadman Houston for all his cruelties (dictatorship, purges, murders, aggression against Iran, gassing of Iranians and Kurds, murder of Shias, rape of Kuwait) and even worse his obvious stupidity. Regardless of how much I wished for him to be burned, tortured, tarred and feathered, castrated, and hanged in a public parking lot by the Al Rasheed Hotel, I am against capital punishment. I find all executions, including this one, totally inhumane and revolting.

My wife noticed that Sadman Houston faced the gallows rather bravely, while his executioners were hooded out of concern for their own future safety. She commented that if the execution were such a good thing, then why did the executioners want to hide their faces? Perhaps they were really Americans, even Rumsey trying to score a final point. Perhaps even Dubya did the deed himself. Maybe one of the executioners was Tahmed.

But then my wife is a Sunni...

Re: # 129

Salim bhai:

I am against such punishment by the society, which portrays as an act of a collective society, and is the same or less than possibke actions of an individual. Collectively, society must be held accountable to higher norms than its individual member, no matter who that person is. Be that society organized by OBL or by anyone, I also do not believe that the U.S. is organized by GWB.

To me, Hamidm sahib has correctly said that the violence is from within ``.... i think the only war being waged against the muslims is by islamists and fundamentalists... Hamidm in #119``. Another of his gem is ``....personally i would like to see the liberation of mecca....``.

No one else than believers of Islam can do it, just as no one other than Hindus can eradicate caste system. I am not trying to mix the issues, but wanted to mention caste / hindu so that I am not accused of glossing over other problems in other societies. Unfortunately, for hindus there is little external interest to force a change (other than conversions), else changes would be more rapid.

This is not the case with Islam, because Islamist have not been able to make Islam redundant in the power equations, and because there is oil and the world is too addicted to it to ignore.

If the change must come from within, I cannot see any other nation than Iran doing it. We will know in the next few months and years who fills the gap, especially when the U.S. must leave the scene. It is hard to imagine this gap being filled by Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, Syria or Sudan or Somalia, or your favorite Saudis.

New politics is taking shape, therefore, I cannot see despots filling middle eastern countries, as Lawrence of Arabia was able to do it, to achieve the equilibrium.

Hanging Saddam at this stage is like taking a pawn and that might sacrifice a queen, unless Iran can be checked. Only then emboldening Shias in Iraq makes sense, and hence Muqtda-al-Sadr as the last spoken word of Saddam.

Divide and conquer is a proven law from the days of hunters and gatherers. Increasing Shia Sunni divide may yield the power equilibrium.

I will certainly watch what happens and reads between the lines, with Iran. I wish I know how much oil is under the land populated by Shias, as the answer is somewhere there. With strong Iran, Sunni minority in Iraq cannot be the guardian of this world asset, as long as the world economies depend on it, and Iran grows its power.

Islam is really redundant. Unfortunately there is not a single leader there to eliminate Islam out of the equation.

There is no Gandhi in the middle east, (I know, I know that is bad word for Yasser and many, and therefore, may be by default for other muslims). This gandhi understands and can act that: (a) one armed person against one unarmed person wins - Gundas; (b) many armed persons against many armed persons can fight to destroy - Wars; (c) many armed persons against one unarmed person can kill the unarmed persons - despot rulers; (d) but armed persons (or nations) against unarmed people who do not fight back cannot win - non violence as a weapon. I some time wonder if this absence is rooted in Islamic philosophy of simplistic binary choices. You may know more than I do, but I do wonder, because I question. If Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela can arise, then what is really missing?

To me, the middle reminds of Munshi Prem Chand`s story ``Shatranj ke Khiladi``. If you have not read it, please read it. Awadhs` nawabs were plotting and playing chess, while the real was being played outside by real soliders outside their palaces in Lucknow residency.

Now that Sadman Houston has gone to meet the 72 devils in hell, here are the prime candidates for next year`s necktie party:

Mushy Mush Mush
Mullah Omar
Hosni Mubarak
Muammar Gaddafi
All the Tally Ban
UBL
Zawahiri
Al Sadr
Ahmedinijad
Bush
Blair
Ratzinger
Modi
Advani
Thackeray
The Army of Sudan
The Army of Pakistan
The Army of Israel
The Entire Saudi Royal Family
All the Moolas of Pakistan, Afghanistan, BD, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and India
Jihadists - Al Kayda, LeT, MMA, JeI, JUI, JEW
LTTE
BJP/VHP/RSS/JS/BD/SS

#119 Hamidum {`` i think the only war being waged against the muslims is by islamists and fundamentalists ........personally i would like to see the liberation of mecca and a regime change in saudi arabia which is the source of most of the evil that plagues the muslim world .........``}

Hamidum Sahib,
That statement of yours is positive proof that the myth about alcohol destroying brain cells is pure hogwash. Good for you. :)

Re: # 125

Salim sahib:

Both you and Hamidm sahib have put Iranians in ``necktie party``, only they can change the destiny near Mecca. Whatever that change means. I am a mere gangaram watching from the sideline, ``tail`` ki dhar dekhtein hain. I am not even allowed to go there.

#115 zeemax: your confident claim that the picture is faked is another example of the stuff you write without thinking. how the hell do you expect me to be profound when all you give me to work with is such fragile claims that are blown away with a shallow puff of breath!! I am sure you can do better than that!! ;-)

zeemax #103 I agreed I was being shallow - but only because what you wrote was so absurd (i.e. iranian bomb being retribution for the death of the man who fought a 10 year war with iran!!) that it did not need any depth to reject. I was listening to the LBJ tapes coming back from the airport just now (his taped phone calls from the 1960`s, which were confidential back then), and he says ``You and Bob (McNamara) keep telling me to be decisive. Well, give me something to be decisive about..... (and he goes on from there)``

So: you want be to be not shallow - then give me something to be not shallow about!! Dont write up stuff without thinking and then expect me to write a PhD thesis to refute it when a single like will do (as I just did above on what you wrote of the iranian bomb). :-)

As for the death penalty - I agree with you. I think those lines I have been quoting today put the saddam death in perspective: Any man`s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. I am really sad to see saddam being put to the noose - even though I think of all the individuals who were alive till yesterday in the world, no one deserved the noose more than him. It would have been much better if they had given him life in prison or something, and put him to work doing something useful for once (like helping rebuild the village of Halabja whose inhabitants he gassed to death). Or perhaps writing letters of apology to the children of each political opponent he killed, each iranian soldier he rendered blind with his gas attacks (that alone would take him a lifetime).

#117 zeemax, are you all right? Did the New Year`s start a little too early for you? What the hell are you refering to any way? Didn`t the muslims win already if islamic iran was behind the hanging (or ``political assassination`` as aptly descirbed by the Hamas) of a secular man?

About islamists prevailing - what are YOU doing about it - isn`t it all just talk?

Ok I read your post ... soysauce ...

The Islamists shall prevail ... that is the destiny.

We shall win ... you wil see ...

#110 by soysauce on December 30, 2006 10:29am PT

zeemax, you say iran hanged Saddam and you also claim it`s the ``mussalmans`` who are the target. So which is it?

Iran is not Muslmaan? First reaction.

Iran is a bit further than Musalmaan, which I am not. Iran is Momin, which I am.

I`ll read the rest of your mail ...

#112 by arjun2

Arjun this is a faked pic. No photos have been released yet.

Please feel free and cheer on the hanging of a Musalmaan when the real photos are released. Maybe tomorrow. You won`t have to wait that long ...

#109 by tahmed32

I`m against death penalty of any kind. If you do not have power to give life, you do not have power to take it away. And Allah is the judge ... noone else.

#103 by tahmed32

Shallow ... nothing more.

Do you remember ``And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor, Shall be lifted nevermore.``

Edgar Ellen Poe.

Cheers.