Nehru’s Legacy: Time to pay tribute

Re:anil#817

[..Punjabi Muslims have very interesting sociology....]

Anil, I have often wondered why Punjabi muslims were so dormant during the 800 years of muslim rule in India? Where were the Lashkar-e-Toiba or Jaish-e-Mohammad type people in those days? They had a sultan or a mughal emperor in Delhi/Agra to back them up. If they had developed jihadi aspirations, they could have forced the conversion of entire North India. Somehow they did nothing for 800 years in India, yet today they are strong supporters of jihad in Kashmir, Afghanistan, Chechneya and even Somalia. Why did they become so religiously active after 1947? Maybe some Punjabi muslim or Sanatani can explain this strange phenomenon.

HP
My point was never about blaming one side only for Hindu-Muslim problems/violence in pre-partition India. The point is to provide public domain information from Transfer of Power papers that Wolpert will never write a book about.

Re: # 829

Are why do you call it abuse you are achampion lawyer and it will do your practise a world of good if you show the world what sort of a liar u are:

Secular is simply a separation of church and state. Nothing else. So according to you Britian is not secular.

I have already mentioned how the Punjabi ex-unionist elite who Sajjad Zaheer had been a nightmare of, in collaboration with the army sidelined the real Muslim Leaguers and took control. In any event, 1951 was phenomenal stupidity on the part of both communists and the establishment. Nehru just took advantage of a situation ... So what situation did Nehru take advantage of he just got a guy who was pleading for his life back into India increasing the Muslim headcount by 1 and then many hundreds ex-communists like him.

Also pls enlighten us on what the phenomenal stupidity on the part of both communists and the establishment was?

Because Indians who backed East Pakistan`s secession would never allow it. However that may just be the logical conclusion to this drama. As for Bengali Non-muslims... Raja Trivedi Roy actually moved to Pakistan and served as its ambassador to several countries. ... Even if we take this statement as true then there would be some voices (loony, fringe etc) who would clamour for the same like in Assam and Tamil Nadu don`t you think the absence of the same tells you something. But then I forgot you don`t think you cut and paste.

Now the gem and piece de resistance rolled into 1:

I did not claim that there was strong Hindu support for United Punjab and Bengal. I claimed that the partition of Punjab and Bengal instead of letting them choose between Pakistan and India went against the grain of the agreement on which this was claimed.

Do you believe this guy? Manot Idiiiot see what have you written ``the partition of Punjab and Bengal instead of letting them choose between Pakistan and India`` of course they choose betwen Pakistan (the Muslims) and India (the Hindus and Sikhs). Or you are implying that to choose India for the Hindus and Sikh would have meant that they should have agreed to a United Punjab and Bengal and then conveniently did Hijrat to India to allow you and your race of hewers of wood and drawers of water (yes that was what the majority of these muslais were) even more ill gotten wealth than you got when the Hindus and Sikhs had to flee with nothing more than the clothes on their back.

BTW you have been giving us rubbish about Indic and Gangetic people . So are the Pashtus Indic and why did they not have the right of self determination in 1947 which you are so eager to grant to the Bengalis for united Bengal. So far you have been harping on the superiority of Indic over Gangetic so why should the Bengalis who are manifestly Gangetic have a right that the superior Indic Pashtu did not have. And while we are at it what about the Balochis.

Also what about self determination of the People of Chittagong Hill Tracts who were 98% Hindu and Buddhist and how come fo all their love of minorities did the Pakistanis not give them any sort of constitutional protection the way the Indians gave to the Kashmiris.

Please enlighten us abusive Indians o great reincarnation of Manto.

Sanatani

Nehru`s true legacy:

We can`t hang Afzal Guru convicted of planning the attack on Indian Parliament because it was so close to Ramzan. He has still not been hanged

George W. Bush hanged Saddam Hussein on the eve of Bakr-Eid.

Proves that Nehru effectively castrated Indian politicians forever.

A`null, Sadna,

Hope you fellas don`t miss my responses to your hogwash.

Re: # 830

Better than being roasted in India for being a Christian or a Muslim don`t you think?

Pakistanis are actually creating new minorities....Ahmedi were not a minority before the partition....Give the credit where it is due.....


ROFL.. this is the best.. And the example of the best treatment of ``non-Muslim`` minorities is Mantolives` dad who owns a Maybach.. :-)

Re: # 828

``You know I am suspicious of anyone who is claimed to have been an opponent of Brits.``

Well you ought to be. Because I have just shown proves that those like the Congress who claimed to be this that and other were actually busy propping up imperialist toadies.

The rest of your stuff is merely speculation.

Re: # 827

Sanatani,

No need to abuse me to show that you too are like your Indian compatriots.

1. I did not claim that there was strong Hindu support for United Punjab and Bengal. I claimed that the partition of Punjab and Bengal instead of letting them choose between Pakistan and India went against the grain of the agreement on which this was claimed.

2. Because Indians who backed East Pakistan`s secession would never allow it. However that may just be the logical conclusion to this drama. As for Bengali Non-muslims... Raja Trivedi Roy actually moved to Pakistan and served as its ambassador to several countries.

3. I have already mentioned how the Punjabi ex-unionist elite who Sajjad Zaheer had been a nightmare of, in collaboration with the army sidelined the real Muslim Leaguers and took control. In any event, 1951 was phenomenal stupidity on the part of both communists and the establishment. Nehru just took advantage of a situation ...

4. Secular is simply a separation of church and state. Nothing else.

Manto,

(they would have gotten an autonomous Sikh state and would have been Pakistan`s strongest defence. )

For the short-term, yes. In the long-term halaal instead of jhatka.

(Instead they chose Golden Temple massacre. )

Dr. Manmohan Singh, Ranbaxy as well.

(which was the only force in Punjab that was fighting the British bureaucracy )

You know I am suspicious of anyone who is claimed to have been an opponent of Brits.

Regards

Re: # 826

Ok mantolies bahut bakwaas likh li but pls answer 2 questions:

1) In case there was such strong Hindu sentiment for having a united Bengal or Punjab then why were there protests by Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab only against partition of India but none against the partition of Punjab and Bengal.

2) And when once Bangladesh was established initially ostenibly a secular state why was there no demand by West Bengalis to merge with for a united Sonar Bangla or for that matter like so many muslims from areas like Tamil Nadu and Kerela who did not face riots or persecution but went to Pakistan anyway as they saw in it a culmination of all the privations and campaigns did any Bengali Hindu who left E Bengal prior to 1969 return to Bangladesh as the logical culmination of a Bengali homeland.

3) Why did Sajjad Zaheer leave Pakistan no not leave but run away and who rehabilitated him back in India. For the record he was hounded out of Pakistan by the same so called secular establishment for ladiniyat and was rehabilitated by Nehru.

4) How do you define secular

I realise that answering 4 questions may be beyond your mental faculties so answer 2.

Sanatani

``#800

Yasser,

The thing to remember is that most of the Union ministries in Punjab were supported by the Congress. Unionist had Sikh and Hindu support or coalition. The unionist made an alliance with Muslim League only when they saw the writing on the wall..... ``

I have a very similar view... I wrote this post to Anil and Dostmittar:

Anil, Dostmittar,

I strongly suggest both you gentlemen pick up Sajjad Zaheer`s ``League-Unionist Conflict`` and read it several times to understand what is being said.

Now Evan Jenkins has become the new Indian hero... but for god`s sake who said the British secret reports and claims were in anyway honest? Sadna`s selective meanderings notwithstanding, following go without saying:

1. The British and the Congress threw their entire might behind the unrepresentative and unpopular Unionist Party regime... I am just surprised that today, the old cronies of the British Empire... the jee huzooris who took their orders from Deputy Commissioners ... the likes of Sir Fazli Hussain, Sikandar Hayat and Khizer Hayat are being ``championed`` by the Indians... in exclusion the Muslim League, which was the only force in Punjab that was fighting the British bureaucracy and toadyism... while Congress- despite its tall claims and self righteousness of freedom struggle- was siding with the Unionists ....

2. The Muslim League did not favour partition of Punjab and Bengal but was completely against it...

[On May 17 Mahomed Ali Jinnah made this following appeal to reason – which Mountbatten and Nehru had none:

“The Muslim League cannot agree to the partition of Bengal and the Punjab… it cannot be justified historically, economically, geographically, politically or morally. These provinces have built up their respective lives for nearly a century… the principle underlying the demand for the establishment of Pakistan and Hindustan is totally different… In the name of justice and fairplay, do not submit to this clamour. For it will be sowing the seeds of future serious trouble and the results will be disastrous for the life of these two provinces.” (Jinnah’s letter to Mountbatten TOP X, p 852)

Sir Eric Meiville met with Jinnah on May 20th and reported the following to Mountbatten:

“At the end of our talk he (Jinnah) took my arm and said ‘I am not speaking as a partisan, but I beg to tell Lord Mountbatten once again that he will be making a grave mistake if he agrees to the partition of Punjab and Bengal.” (TOPP X 916)

What had Jinnah offered the Sikhs: Essentially a signed blank cheque… inter alia autonomy, defence ministry, permanent position as the Forces Chief…This is confirmed by Terrence Shone’s discussion with Jinnah . According to Terrence Shone, Jinnah said that he had offered 3.5 million Sikhs and Master Tara Singh everything he wanted, but “Sikhs in many ways admirable people lacked the leadership of the highest order”. (TOP Volume X P. 280) ]

The fact of the matter is that it was Master Tara Singh, who was egged on by Nehru and the lot who was responsible for the misery of the Sikhs... they would have gotten an autonomous Sikh state and would have been Pakistan`s strongest defence. Instead they chose Golden Temple massacre.


3. I am yet to see the smoking guns that you keep talking about. The smoking guns I see through the ``diligent research`` is that of British imperialist make in the hands of the Congress` funded murderers.


.....

The problem with Sadna is that she doesn`t see how damning her own admissions are to the Congress` tall claims...

Re: # 785

Well Anil wants to give sadna competion for dhimmi of the year.

It survived for 1 reason mentioned here but also because Hindus were not totally Dhimmi then. They were vigorpus fighters for desh and dharam. They were not given to intellectualising the devastation caused by this cult of beastliness but were willing to take it head on at a considerable loss of life and possessions.

But unfortunately now compared to the resurgent jihadis and crusaders we are faced with a traitorious elite like you and sadna apart form the 4M`s and this is why this time we will lose.

But have no fear on 1 account we will give a good account of ourselves. This time there will be in the end no heroic rear guard actions like 1947 this time we will stare and face death mano amano face to face.

Sanatani
S

HP....i posted the editorial link about press freedom in pakistan not because i enjoyed reading that or because i want to score some brownie points over you guys. I posted that because i felt very sad at the lack of press freedom in pakistan.

``Pakistani Census is on the net look it up... ``

incase you forget, i have looked it up and u have yourself acknowledged seeing the link to the pakistani census in my post 173.

however, please show me where can i find increase or decrease of pakistani minority population from 1947 onwards....something similar to what is available in the indian census.

rgds,

devkant.

Re: # 764

You dumb cuuuunt Ranjit is not stupid you are. And not only stupid but an imbecile. Secularism means ladiniyat for a muslim and a secular muslim is an oxymoron.

It is this same rubbish that dhimmi traitorous hindus like you spew about muslims being secular. oh yeah even if we take that useless definition of secularism as equal respsect for all religions then pray do let us know why in the 2 muslim majority towns in Maharashtra Malegaon and Bhiwandi no Ganpati pandal can be set up except very deep inside Hindu mohallas.

Read Bengalvoice.com or Sardar Gurcharan Singh Talibs book ``The Muslim leagues attack on the Hindus and Sikhs of the Punjab`` to clear your stupid brain. One thing will stand out how the UP trained Mullahs of Nadwa, Firangi Mahal and Bareli were in the lead in aousing the people against the Hindus to attack them kill the men and claim their women and belongings as booty.

The same set is known as nationalist muslims todays. At least the muslai and xtian loving jokers of the RSS while holding similarly stupid views are not averse to fighting for the Dharam and Matrabhumi when the need arises unlike u pathetic creatures who then start singing the raag of your traitorious and cowardly master gandhi when confronted with armed to the teeth mobs of muslims who have been provoked by:

1) Arti or Music coming from a temple.
2) Invasion of Iraq,
3) Situation in Palestine
4) Cartoons of the errand boy of the moon god. (Read Manto`s post when he quotes Asghar Ali Engineer of what happened in Lucknow when protest were organised by muslims to protest the danish cartoons in which 4 Hindus were killed for no other reason that they were Hindus)

And you stuupied biatch want us to diffrentiate between secular and non secular muslims show me a secular muslai and I will show you an apostate

Go kil;l yourself

Sanatani

here are some comments on the blog about ms. Gall

read the third and the last one...HAHAHAHA!

Reporters without borders, what a laugh. They are working on the assumption they are saving lives, this is a joke, right?
If this happened? then the individual was being punished for showing no respect. Makes me wonder about the ``times,`` are they really a professional org? No> I don`t think so, else the reporting would be conducted in a manner that would really point out the abuses through video, stills and sound recordings, along with the printed word.

Their arrogance as shown once again they live in a gilted world, they think they are operating with in the bounds of America or England! Stupid!
W E Stewart

Glad to hear the Pakistani secret police are doing their jobs in silencing the Taliban and Al Queda propoganda arm AKA New York Times. Nice job guys, keep up the good work. Crack some more skulls at the NYT.
Posted by: Tim Mills | Dec 26, 2006 2:22:00 PM

Sounds like she failed to obey a police officer to me, maybe she shouldn`t have been punched in the face, but if the police were to ever knock on my door, I`d open it, and even if I didn`t, I wouldn`t try grabbing my laptop back from them once they stormed the room. The word `assaulted` is too strong in the headline, something about a victim of excessive force is more appropriate.
Posted by: m. alexis | Dec 26, 2006 2:30:24 PM
This reporter got what was comming to her, and she can whine and cry all she wants, but there is no ACLU to save her over there, the Pakastani government does not engage in liberal politically correct games.

Posted by: james bell | Dec 26, 2006 3:00:27 PM

Without simple behavioral instructions, the New York Times sent her to the front line ill prepared. They are responsible for a misguided training that infused her with an above the law and country, attitude. She holds no allegiance except to the New York Times, what a schmuck.
Can you imagine brushing aside a State Trooper when he asks you for I.D.? Depending on his self control is where your fate would lie; you’d have to be out of your mind on drugs, arrogance, or stupidity, to ignore him. If cops knock on your door in Pakistan let them in and be nice. Otherwise they’re going to slap you around. This woman disrespected and challenged them, asking for their wrath, a masochist’s behavior. The secret police are among the intelligent ones, they have developing egos too.

#819 by devkant

``Ms Carlotta Gall of the New York Times was roughed up by intelligence agents in Quetta a couple of months ago despite the fact that she had a valid visa to visit the province.``

I am glad this btch was roughed up. First she went to Quetta w/o permission then when the Pakistani security identified itself she refused to open the door.
If this btch had done this to the US police they too would have taken down the door.

Then she was resisting arrest.. Has she ever tried that in the US? These people think that since they are white and from the US they can do anything and no local laws applies to them...

I happend to read her blog and people`s comments were just hilarious let me find that for you to enjoy....