India’s Foreign Policy: An Analysis

dm #178 ``the inhabitants of these two countries show no interesting in owning the civilisations associated with these places.``

even if one accepts this obviously subjective statement (and i could give you much stronger arguments to the contrary than the one you provided), that still doesnt make harappa or gandhara south indian civilizations.

dharma: So, ``my`` Islam is about fasting, praying, hajj?? ha! ha!

dost-mittar #178: ``Yes, I agree with you. It is indeed a question of ownership...``

hmm...so if i say i am not a product of a punjabi civilization, but actually belong to the roman civilization, it will become a fact!!

......ownership doesn`t have much to do with it......either there is a civilization or their isn`t.....one can be ashamed of it, or be proud of it......but one cannot deny it or jump ship and claim ownership of another one.....

...someone from south india claiming ownership of taxila or harrapa is like someone from karachi claiming ownership of najaf......it is more an emotional tie.......nothing more......doesn`t mean that person becomes a part of those civilizations......

khurram#168:

Yes, I agree with you. It is indeed a question of ownership. The guys in Tamilnadu feel a sense of ownership of the civilsation belonging to the North of Vindyachal even though they are geographically far removed from it.

The opposite can be true as well. Mohenjodaro, Harrappa, Gandhara are in a landmass which is now in either Pakistan or Afghanistan but the inhabitants of these two countries show no interesting in owning the civilisations associated with these places. Let me give you an example: I happened to be visiting Mohenjodaro three years ago at the same time that an Indian chief justice, a South Indian, was also visiting Karachi for some conference. He took time off from his busy schedule to visit Mohenjodaro. I also looked at the visitors` register maintained at the reception and found that over a period of two weeks, only people from China, Japan, India and Europe had visited the place; the only Pakistani visitors were officials going there in discharge of their duties. And this is not from any lack of interest by the govt. as the place is in the Bhutto`s Larkana district and even has a fairly well-kept airport dedicated to it.

Guys,

Check this link out -

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007 01 19 story_19-1-2007_pg9_5

The Pakis are apparently most inclined towards Indian porn on the internet!! That is the ultimate proof of paki interest in India, despite all the protestations from hamidm, HP and gang. In public they say one thing but behind closed doors, when no one is looking, out goes religion as they go after Indian stuff. Hypocrites...

swarrier #160 While I appreciate your attempt to elevate this discussion to a more mature level, I think you make a significant mistake you equate ``Indian Civilization`` with Hinduism (``a common belief system (you can call it Hinduism if you want``).

While Hindu Nationalists seek to equate the subcontinent with hindusim, and even well balanced people like you accept that premise at face value, that simply is not true historically speaking. Thus, e.g.: The Harappan Civilization predates the Vedas by a few millenia, and even more so the Mahabharata. So that is not a Hindu Civilization no matter how much you stretch things. And no one would consider the Gandhara Civilization (the other great civilization in what is now Pakistan) to be a Hindu Civilization - it was a Greco-Buddhist Civilization and no one would confuse that with hinduism.

If you want to get a proper view of hinduism, then note its origins starting with the story of mankind emerging from africa to the middle east/georgia area and one group spreading east into what is now Pakistan and from there (via the aryapatha) to the ganges valley and (via the daksinapatha) to what is now the deccan.

Hinduism started several millenia after this, with the vedas started in what is now Pakistan and while they refer to the indus there is no mention of the ganges in it. mahabharata refers to only one minor event (and inflates it to seem like some kind of an epochal conflict involving gods and humans and so forth), restricted to a small area around hastinapur (north of delhi i believe) that took place long after man had settled down in what is now India. So, regardless of hindu nationalists would like to think, India is not the same thing as hinduism.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can talk of an Indian Civilization if you wish or of a Hindu Civilization (if you feel strongly about Hinduism). But you cannot have them both across the Indian subcontinent.

Re: # 176
Tahmed

I haven`t equated Indian civilisation with Hinduism that is why I said call it Hinduism if you will. I merely mentioned a common skein of thought at a point in time.
I am aware of what is commonly accepted as the Vedic timelines and the Harappan Mohenjo-daro civilisation.
You can shift goal posts to provide your own take on things and I accept the fact that you need to fashion your own history to have an identity.

That`s fine by me. I am not going into this subject any more.

HP #162 Not to interrupt your education of our Indian friends, but Harappa is considered to have been the main center of the Indus Valley Civilization. With the total area spreading to Sindh no doubt, and even further almost all the way to delhi and kutch in the east, and to Herat to the west - an area larger than western europe.

And...er...Harappa is in the Panjab, not Sindh. :-)
(Sorry, couldnt resist a bit of panjabi chauvinism here).

dharma: ``Hindu rituals are part and parcel of Hinduism.``

I dont expect you to say anything more intelligent. If your ``hinduism`` means dipping in the polluted waters of the ganga in order to wash away your sins, then you are clueless about what religion - any religion, including hinduism - is about. Of course, there is no shortage of your kind among ``hindus`` or ``muslims`` or ``christians`` or any other geniuses who are unable to distinguish between superstition and religion and who think they can bribe or flatter God into changing the rules of the game for them.

You jump in the ganga, all you get is a dip in a polluted river waters. you take a jet plane to mecca, and all you are doing is tourism. Sins dont get washed away by saying some magical words in sanskrit or arabic or hebrew (as i said at the beginning). One day when you get this through your head. Then come talk to me about what is ritual and what is religion.

Re: # 174
``I dont expect you to say anything more intelligent. If your ``hinduism`` means dipping in the polluted waters of the ganga in order to wash away your sins, then you are clueless about what religion - any religion, including hinduism - is about.``

Moron Mullah, Look at the garbage you wrote. I can just change those words to point to you
and see how stupid you sound:

If your ``islam`` means fasting for the whole month during daytime, praying five times
a day facing the direction of mecca, mutilating your genetila, ...., then you are clueless
about what religion - any religion, including islam - is about

Dont talk about thing those are beyond your mental capabilites. After all as
a believer you are handicapped to start with.

Here is Dravidian chief minister of Sindh



He calls himself Arbab....People think he is arbab of Afghan origin.

In sindh Arbabs are camel driver..mostly smugglers moving stuff between Amarkot, Sindh and Jasilmir, Rajhastan.....

Looks like entire paki brigrade is grinding hard to make indian civilization disppear... :)

Islamabad Bob crying out loud with heeng and haldi up his a$$... hamid mian is looking for ``granny taking bath`` pictures all over internet... closet mullah32 is juggling words... and then we have romair... as usual, he is babbling on and on and nobody is sure what heck is he talking about...

Yep - we are all covinced... pakis with their collective hard work and ``intelligence`` have done the ultimate trick - they have made an entire civilization vanish....

pakis and their delusions... it never ends.... :)

swarrier,swarrier, swarrier,

I am not talking about Sheddis or siddis as you call them. They are there and are new arrivals. I am actually talking about people Sindhis call Sindhi Dravidian. They dominate the Dadu district but also live in Larkana, and Tharparkar districts too. They are not Sheddis. They are dark but their negroid features have softened like the people in South India. They were the original Sindhi who perhaps also lived in Moenjo dero and other areas around it. Sindh too had waves of people coming from all over from central asia to south India.

I think #165 was meant for me.

Yes Sindh has Dravidian too. Is Dravidian a race? negroid features can be found in many other places. I doubt that proves anything. Brohi or Brohki is an ancient language it may have a link like Sanskrit has with Persian languages.
People may have traveled from the south to coastal areas for many reasons. But that is not a cord...Many people share different things but they are still distinctly different too.

Dravidian in Sindh share nothing with South Indians except for negroid features....

Re: # 169
C`mon HP don`t obfuscate and disseminate bunk. Dravidian languages are not traceable to Africa as yet.

Yes there are negroid races all along the coast but they are recent migrations like the Siddis. Probably in Sindh too, considering the port cities present there. And also because of the slaves that the Portuguese brought along and no doubt the Arabs.

Don`t clutch at straws.

Re: dm #163

Please see #156