India’s Foreign Policy: An Analysis

#159 Genius-from-India Dharma writes `` Should we redicule the whole religion based on those people? ``.

So, having been caught lying, you tried wiggling away by claiming I was ridiculing hindu rituals only and not muslim. When I got you by the neck there, you try to wiggle out by claiming that I am ridiculing the entire religion of hinduism. And now I have you by the neck again: Where in my cut and paste do I ridicule the entire religion?? Lets see how you attempt to wiggle away again! :-)

The only civilization which is being claimed by these south Indians was Indus civilization of what is now Pakistan.

Only Sindhi are the true inheritors of that civilization and we have the most ancient artifacts of that civilization. No south Indian can claim any part of the of the so called Indus civilization. They are different in every respect.....We don`t speak the same language, we dress differently and we behave differently. We do share this civilization with some parts of northern India but the Indus civilization has nothing to do with Bengali or Madrassis or keralavassis.

Indians are trying to claim the ownership of the Indus civilization..Chor uchakay....

bylleya#
``but one can get a feel for it......kind of like pornography....i.e. it is hard to define, but one knows is when one sees it...... ``

In that case, Indians have seen the Indian civilization; what is more important, prominent historians, such as Durant, Basham, Thapar (see some of the million plus google entries or the Encylpaedia link given by swarrier).

``...you are confusing a civilization, with an empire...much like D-M is doing......``

I did not and do not. I mentioned the accomplishments of a people, not of any empire or religion or a linguistic group. You have mentioned the non-commonality of Punjabis and Tamils. Even Tamils take pride in and identify with the Mohenjodaro, Harappa, Buddhist and Jain accomplishments. You may say that they have no right to feel commonality with these people, but they do and, as you said, feelings are subjective.

Re: # 161
``So, having been caught lying, you tried wiggling away by claiming I was ridiculing hindu rituals only and not muslim. When I got you by the neck there, you try to wiggle out by claiming that I am ridiculing the entire religion of hinduism. And now I have you by the neck again: Where in my cut and paste do I ridicule the entire religion?? Lets see how you attempt to wiggle away again! :-)``

Hindu rituals are part and parcel of Hinduism. To your simplistic mind, rituals may look
like mindless things. Simple minds like yours just need one book to understand this
world after all, that too written by illeterate person in 7th century. But others may have
more complex understanding of this world and themselves and a ritual may reinforce
some inner strength they may have or it may bring peace of mind to them- it does
not matter what their faith is and what they do, you have no right to ridicule them even
if under the guise of equally criticising muslim rituals. How do you know the rituals
in other faiths are less important than the faith itself? Maybe they are the most important things central to their faith. Thats why I said if you want to ridicule other faiths be open to criticise your own with no holds barred. But cowards like you will rather kill and be killed than your religious symbols ridiculed. Only other peoples faiths are fair game for your ridicule!

Re: # 162

The only thing you have in common with the Indus valley civilisation is geography. You don`t speak the same language, you don`t dress similarly, you don`t eat the same food, you don`t profess the same religion, you can`t decipher their writings, there is nothing that you have inherited from them. You don`t know which rivers coursed through those lands when they existed. You didn`t even know they existed till the 1800`s. You don`t probably have any fables which speak of these lands.

So you are as far away from them as, forget South Indians, let us say the Chinese.

Brahui is a Dravidian language and Balochistan has Sutkagen Dor so I dare say there is a South Indian link


Dholavira and Lothal in Gujarat are as old and they are in India.

So quit all this rubbish and go back to foreign relations. -)

aww..Islamabad Bob doesn`t like the fact the people outside jihadis`r`us associate India with the Indian civilization and think Pakistan is just another stan....

d_m #163
The biggest Tamil epic from early A.D was written by a Jain prince, btw.

Re: dm #163

Please see #156

I think #165 was meant for me.

Yes Sindh has Dravidian too. Is Dravidian a race? negroid features can be found in many other places. I doubt that proves anything. Brohi or Brohki is an ancient language it may have a link like Sanskrit has with Persian languages.
People may have traveled from the south to coastal areas for many reasons. But that is not a cord...Many people share different things but they are still distinctly different too.

Dravidian in Sindh share nothing with South Indians except for negroid features....

Re: # 169
C`mon HP don`t obfuscate and disseminate bunk. Dravidian languages are not traceable to Africa as yet.

Yes there are negroid races all along the coast but they are recent migrations like the Siddis. Probably in Sindh too, considering the port cities present there. And also because of the slaves that the Portuguese brought along and no doubt the Arabs.

Don`t clutch at straws.

swarrier,swarrier, swarrier,

I am not talking about Sheddis or siddis as you call them. They are there and are new arrivals. I am actually talking about people Sindhis call Sindhi Dravidian. They dominate the Dadu district but also live in Larkana, and Tharparkar districts too. They are not Sheddis. They are dark but their negroid features have softened like the people in South India. They were the original Sindhi who perhaps also lived in Moenjo dero and other areas around it. Sindh too had waves of people coming from all over from central asia to south India.

Looks like entire paki brigrade is grinding hard to make indian civilization disppear... :)

Islamabad Bob crying out loud with heeng and haldi up his a$$... hamid mian is looking for ``granny taking bath`` pictures all over internet... closet mullah32 is juggling words... and then we have romair... as usual, he is babbling on and on and nobody is sure what heck is he talking about...

Yep - we are all covinced... pakis with their collective hard work and ``intelligence`` have done the ultimate trick - they have made an entire civilization vanish....

pakis and their delusions... it never ends.... :)

Here is Dravidian chief minister of Sindh



He calls himself Arbab....People think he is arbab of Afghan origin.

In sindh Arbabs are camel driver..mostly smugglers moving stuff between Amarkot, Sindh and Jasilmir, Rajhastan.....

dharma: ``Hindu rituals are part and parcel of Hinduism.``

I dont expect you to say anything more intelligent. If your ``hinduism`` means dipping in the polluted waters of the ganga in order to wash away your sins, then you are clueless about what religion - any religion, including hinduism - is about. Of course, there is no shortage of your kind among ``hindus`` or ``muslims`` or ``christians`` or any other geniuses who are unable to distinguish between superstition and religion and who think they can bribe or flatter God into changing the rules of the game for them.

You jump in the ganga, all you get is a dip in a polluted river waters. you take a jet plane to mecca, and all you are doing is tourism. Sins dont get washed away by saying some magical words in sanskrit or arabic or hebrew (as i said at the beginning). One day when you get this through your head. Then come talk to me about what is ritual and what is religion.

HP #162 Not to interrupt your education of our Indian friends, but Harappa is considered to have been the main center of the Indus Valley Civilization. With the total area spreading to Sindh no doubt, and even further almost all the way to delhi and kutch in the east, and to Herat to the west - an area larger than western europe.

And...er...Harappa is in the Panjab, not Sindh. :-)
(Sorry, couldnt resist a bit of panjabi chauvinism here).

swarrier #160 While I appreciate your attempt to elevate this discussion to a more mature level, I think you make a significant mistake you equate ``Indian Civilization`` with Hinduism (``a common belief system (you can call it Hinduism if you want``).

While Hindu Nationalists seek to equate the subcontinent with hindusim, and even well balanced people like you accept that premise at face value, that simply is not true historically speaking. Thus, e.g.: The Harappan Civilization predates the Vedas by a few millenia, and even more so the Mahabharata. So that is not a Hindu Civilization no matter how much you stretch things. And no one would consider the Gandhara Civilization (the other great civilization in what is now Pakistan) to be a Hindu Civilization - it was a Greco-Buddhist Civilization and no one would confuse that with hinduism.

If you want to get a proper view of hinduism, then note its origins starting with the story of mankind emerging from africa to the middle east/georgia area and one group spreading east into what is now Pakistan and from there (via the aryapatha) to the ganges valley and (via the daksinapatha) to what is now the deccan.

Hinduism started several millenia after this, with the vedas started in what is now Pakistan and while they refer to the indus there is no mention of the ganges in it. mahabharata refers to only one minor event (and inflates it to seem like some kind of an epochal conflict involving gods and humans and so forth), restricted to a small area around hastinapur (north of delhi i believe) that took place long after man had settled down in what is now India. So, regardless of hindu nationalists would like to think, India is not the same thing as hinduism.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can talk of an Indian Civilization if you wish or of a Hindu Civilization (if you feel strongly about Hinduism). But you cannot have them both across the Indian subcontinent.