Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?

In true tradition of Chowk, let the dog have it`s day. Everyone deserves 15 minutes of fame, and the author has got it !

WE had been there or near there its heartbreak. Its journey is important nut destination is not important when you reach there is nothing all that worth at all. As they say its like sex and air and money is similar if you have nothing special but if you do not have you die.
Sex and democracy are important so they can be dangerous if can not handle properly.
In long term they say both are not that significant.
Still it is premature. We need big runway and controlled flights with army at helms. And need reversals of semi democracies. When time comes people will know and like giant airmachine it may take longer runway and practice but when takes on it will be be a rocket putting to shame neighbourhood democratic as turbo prop airmachines.
Talk of democracy is erotic , like 14 years boys and girls Still its quite immature to talk about, patience is needed. I do not like this type of articles as they set wrong thoughts and expectations and people become romantic which leads to depression

good night

Author,

There are many models (direct, presedential, Westminster etc) within western model of democracy. India follows the Westminster Model though democracy is dynastic in all parties (with an exception of Communists and BJP). Very important is that there`s no inner-party democracy, though they maintain the facade of democracy. The wokring of Indian democracy is limited to electoral process....less said the better.

As for Pakistan, I have these points:

I. THE PEOPLE CHANGED IN PAKISTAN AT THE TOP BUT THE GENETIC MAKE-UP OF PAKISTANI LEADERSHIP REMAINED WHAT THE DEMONIC JINNAH DID BY HIMSELF WHEN PAKISTAN WAS CREATED.

The following excerpts would reflect on WHY PAKISTAN’S SET-UP EFFED SINCE ITS INCEPTION. Here is how!


John R Wood in Pacific Affairs 1985-‘86

---

The long-range implications for a democratic Pakistan were ominous: the only man who had real power in Pakistan chose not to be its Prime Minister, Pakistan’s parliament would be fatally weakened. Mountbatten later recalled making this point with Jinnah.

I (Mountabatten) said, “you have chosen the wrong thing? The man you want to be is the Prime Minster runs the country”.

“No NOT IN MY PAKISTAN” he (JINNAH) said. “ There the Prime Minister will do what the Governor General tells him.”

So I (Mountbatten) said, “ that’s the whole reverse of the whole concept of British democracy.”

“NEVERTHELESS, THAT’S THE WAY I AM (JINNAH) GOING TO RUN PAKISTAN”

---

That’s how it’s still being run where the self-appointed Dictator (good intentioned, passionate about Pakistan a la Jinnah) dictates what Prime Minister ought to do!!!

ROYAL EFFING TO DEMOCRACY in PAKISTAN.

II.

WHY PAKISTAN IS RULED BY MILITRAY DICTATORS?

Jinnah himself ruled Muslim League like a dictator and it continued in Pakistan. He was never a democrat (I am ready to face Yasser Hamdani).

GHQ-gene of Pakistan was embedded by Jinnah here.

On 12.07.1947 Mountbatten to Listowel:

Adaptation Order for Pakistan to be based on the IX Schedule rather than on Part II of Government of India Act 1935. Jinnah told the men drafting the Order to prepare the Order in such way that he’d hold enormous power in Pakistan, whereas Indian Governor General (Mountbatten and later Rajagopalachari) is more of a titular head in Dominion of India.

This most critical insertion blows death-knell to Pakistan as a democratic state. If democracy doesn’t survive in Pakistan, it’s because there was none in Muslim League.

(Words in parenthesis are mine, rest are from Transfer of Power Vol XII, Page 127).

---

Governor General in Pakistan would:

1. Appoint members of the Government

2. Appoint Vice-President

3. OVERRIDE MAJORITY OPINION OF THE GOVERNMENT (DEMOCRACY, EH!)

4. Frame Rules of Business

5. GOVERNOR GENERAL TO PRESIDE CABINET MEETINGS (MAI-BAAP COMPLEX)

6. Governor General would effectively be his own Prime Minister, but with special powers.

7. THIS WOULD GIVE JINNAH, POSITION OF A DICTATOR

---

Mountbatten was aghast at this:

Mountbatten to Stafford Cripps on 09.07.1947.

My private information is that Jinnah’s immediate followers and advisors are horrified at the line he has taken, and it seems incredible that a man`s megalomania should be so chronic as to cause him to throw away such material advantages to his own future Dominion for the sake of becoming His Excellency some 8 months earlier he’d in any case have assumed that title.

VrV have you become the alterego of sadna?

Zee,

Given a chance on these boards, I will tear apart the working of Indian democratic institutions. Btw, read what I said abt Indian democracy in the first para.

As for Pakistan what I said is based on my personal research. I always said, despite dictatorship in Pakistan free press was the only best thing there. If u have any specific observations pl elaborate. I shall respond.

#5 by VRV

Well .. actually I read your iLog about the 14 points .... your argument is strong. I wanted Manto`s reply to it but then he`ll get carried away and everyone will jump in and so forth. So I chose not to ...

Zee,

When I say abt democracy, it`s not always meant to score against u guyz. We sincerely want a peaceble neighbour on NW side of India. Democracy would give them chance to do what they want to do than the shenanigans of COASs as Presidents masquarading as saviours who bankrupt the country in the long run even if they benifit the country in the short-run.

We all saw Nawaz and Benazir effed ur country...when I read abt the mansions bought by Benazir and antiques smuggled into UK, I feel extremely bad. When I recall how the `democratically` elected Nawaz undid the status of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, it feels equally bad. When we read abt these two lotas positioning as saviours of Pakistan now, it feels not so good as if there`are no other saviours in/for Pakistan. I would appreciate if Musharraf gets elected a la Olugesan Obasanjo (Army Chief) of Nigeria.

As for 14 points, they are meant for the record. Yasser need to a long way to be a Mushahid Hussain.

This essay however many good points it makes, has some real basic flaws in it. Democracy is not an economic system, but a system of governance (at least in the context of this essay). There can be various different models within the economics of it, what you call self-managed or co-op enterprises are more ‘democratic’ in their culture than your so-called ‘western style’ corporations. So the distinction must be made that for Democracy to strive in a society, there needs to be a strong (almost dictatorial) hold by profit driven enterprises. I fail to understand how allying oneself with the Western business culture or a Western sympathetic business class will make Pakistan democratic?

All of the economic conditions (or pre conditions, as the writer refers to them) exist in China. Does that make China democratic? Hell not.

Democracies are built on rule of law and not on certain economic pre conditions. One person one vote is the only pre-requisite for Democracy, the rest is just a bunch of nik naks.

pakistanis do deserve democracy..at least the amount available to people of indian kashmir.

it is amazing to see the bankruptcy of Pakistani intellectualism insisting to remain as yoked bayel in support of of pulling the cart of the army dictatorship -- can anyone in their cousin country India dare to sing raga bihag in longings for General Thimmaya or Gen. Maneck Shaw!! -- it is indeed a shanay khoda.....in Pakistan -- ya Allah!

Why an Indian author is worried about whether Pakistanis deserve democracy or not? If they do they will strive for it ....it`s none of our business.....

---

Re: # 8 by Kulharee on January 11, 2007 1:24pm PT
Democracy is not an economic system, but a system of governance (at least in the context of this essay).

---

Any system of governance devoid of prosperity, is doomed to fail.

---

Re: # 8 by Kulharee on January 11, 2007 1:24pm PT
I fail to understand how allying oneself with the Western business culture or a Western sympathetic business class will make Pakistan democratic?

---

Asian tigers prove that pro-West industrial class is key to prosperity for non-oil non-diamond countries.

---

Re: # 8 by Kulharee on January 11, 2007 1:24pm PT
All of the economic conditions (or pre conditions, as the writer refers to them) exist in China. Does that make China democratic? Hell not.

---

True. China has pre-conditions to become a democratic nation. Ex-Commies are holding that great nation back. It looks like the rich-merchants of China will do the same to Chinese commies, what the rich merchants of England did to the British monarchy.

---

Re: # 8 by Kulharee on January 11, 2007 1:24pm PT
Democracies are built on rule of law and not on certain economic pre conditions.

---

Rule of law is one pre-condition, while prosperity (or hope of prosperity) is the second most important one.

---

Re: # 8 by Kulharee on January 11, 2007 1:24pm PT
One person one vote is the only pre-requisite for Democracy, the rest is just a bunch of nik naks.

---

One-person-one-vote is necessary but not sufficient condition.

For Pakistan it turns out to be Democracy --> bad economy --> instability

---

> military rule.

A quick analysis of Pak history will show this to you.

Bhutto`s government came down on one big slogan ``Mehangai``.
Bhutto`s opposition gained substantially by promising ``We`ll bring commodity prices back to the level of 1970s`` (They lied through their teeth but the slogan worked).

Nawaz lost after Pakistani economy suffered in post-nuclear era.
BB lost twice as people got tired of corruption and inflation.

So how can we ignore the most important issue for Pakistani masses?

Do Pakistanis deserve Democracy?

Yes, by all means. Why not? Any human on this earth who is born free deserves respect and self determination via choosing their own governance. I have been a lots of hoopla since my childhood, oh, Pakistanis don`t deserve democracy, they are better of with a military dictator. Musharraf is great.

Now, my question is. Since when Pakistanis have given a sincere chance to have their own democratic governance? Only for a short speck of a time and that`s about it. Since, 1947, only Army dictators have had been ruling pakistan, looting pakistan and then destabilizing Pakistan. And, blaming politicians for all that
chaos. Who gave pak army the right to rule Pakistan? Musharaf is President of Pakistan. Why? Who choose him? In that case why we got freedom from British colonial era? Believe me , it would have had been much better to live under british rule than to live under this stupid corrupt army rule with all that nonsense.

Why People even give an edge to army rulers? Any kindergarterner can tell you, what is the best for any country? Only solution is democracy. look @ India, Japan and Taiwan etc etc, if, they have had been able to combine their own culture with western culture to form their own free democratic republics, why Pakistanis can`t? We don`t expect one perfect and flawless form of governance, we just wish to have a consistent form of democracy with persistent and continuous filteration process, called elections.We should`nt have any idealized goals for perfection and excellence, rather we should look forward for the results by constantly encouraging democarcy.

We know their can`t be any democracy where all the humans live with unity , discipline and faith and where laws will be unbroken. But, atleast we, the people of pakistan should be given a fair and constant chance to breath with freedom of choice, absolutely not under the claws of Pak corrupt army.

The only solution is wide based, local govt. oriented democracy immediately from bottom to top. Regardless of bad or good, right or wrong. We have to have the real taste of democracy. No compromise, that should be the mission.


There are many wise and decent people in this country who are locally known within their communities. Let the people bring them forward!

We need a system that reflects the will of the people....all the people. I am convinced that if Pakistanis recognize the basic principle of democracy with the right of self determination, we`ll be towards the right direction.

We`ll not create the paradise on planet , earth, but, atleast will be able to improve the political and economic situation of majority of Pakistani people with out anarchy and chaos.

Re: # 13

you go girl...

---

Re: # 13 by Zeena on January 11, 2007 8:09pm PT
Now, my question is. Since when Pakistanis have given a sincere chance to have their own democratic governance?.

---

Good question! Why?

They tasted the politicos like Altaf, BB, and Nawaz and said ``OOf-Allah``. There was no strong and pro-West industrialist class in Pakistan that could have propped up good democratic politicians.

---

Re: # 13 by Zeena on January 11, 2007 8:09pm PT
Why People even give an edge to army rulers?

---

See number 1 above.

---

Re: # 13 by Zeena on January 11, 2007 8:09pm PT
look @ India, Japan and Taiwan etc etc, if, they have had been able to combine their own culture with western culture to form their own free democratic republics, why Pakistanis can`t?

---

That`s exactly the author`s point. One of the major differences between Pakistan and your list (Japan, Taiwan, India, South Korea) is ``staunch pro-West industrialists and businessmen``.

Without such industrialists Japan would still be a nuked country similar to Gaza. Without their staunch pro-West industrialists Taiwan would be a basket case country. Without Tatas, Birlas, and other pro-West industrialists the whole India would be just like Bihar or Commie WB. And last but not least without pro-West industrialists South Korea would have been the exact copy of the failed state called North Korea.

For those who yearn for a Modern, Democratic, Liberal, and Progressive Pakistan...

Here it is!