Muharram 10: ’Ashura: Commemorating Imam Hussain- The Prince of Martyrs

Re: # 143kalchakraa

i am realy sorry to know about your sister.

may her soul rest in peace.

Urstruly

Sorry, didn`t mean to offend any sufi who is fully committed to Islam.

Non-Muslims have a very screwed up idea of Sufism. That is what I meant by nautanki. Otherwise Sufism is one of the most useful tools of Islam and fits in perfectly within Islam`s overall spirit and objectives.

(Thanks for the condolences...It`s been difficult.)

#148 by kaalchakra

Kaal, as we Muslims say ``From Allah we come, and to Him we shall return``.

That gives us solace for loss of loved ones.

We should be thankful for whatever time they spent with us, and wish them well in the hereafter.

Thanks, Zee. It`s been a few weeks. I can`t even believe it, let alone understand it. But we move on... Sooner or later, all of us run up against the hard edge of reason, and that is where different kinds of ``faiths`` are born....

kaal

I am sorry to read about your sister, may Allah grant her eternal peace and tranquility.

Re: # 143

Sufism is not nautanki; it is true and valid as long as it remains with in the well defined limits.

#143 by kaalchakra

(Having just lost my younger sister - I loved her very much - )

Kaal. I am sorry. May the Dear Departed Soul Rest in Eternal Peace.

#142 by Urstruly

Again, Urstruly is right. Learning from experience, one gets to the knowledge that there are many things beyond a person`s will and reach no matter what, and indeed a person is quite helpless at times till he calls upon Allah. And then, miracles begin to occur.

There have been many such instances in my life. Whenever I have called upon Allah to help when I was in dire straits, I have always come out ahead through doors opening from all directions clearly showing me which to take, when it would have been a matter of seconds for me to miss them altogether and back to misery.

So, I have Faith. That is enough. Intellect counts for nothing. Allah does. Too many questions lead to kufr. I really believe that.

Zee

can`t claim to comprehend the Great Buddha`s mind, and some Buddhist would know better, but it may be related to the basic Indian idea that God/Ultimate Reality can be ``known`` ONLY through negation....the moment you begin to ``describe`` God, you have fully lost Him/It.

So the Indian sages would traditionally describe the absolute, the transcendental, infinite reality as neti, neti (not this, not this).

May be the Buddha was telling us that the question of existence or nonexistence cannot be settled by us humans in an absolute sense, since absolute knowledge is simply beyond human ken. (Having just lost my younger sister - I loved her very much - I think I have a sense of what he meant, although I do not ``understand`` it).

---

Urstruly

I know...there is a reason why this whole nautanki of Sufism is beneath contempt.

Zeemax & Kaal

Even if we give the benefit of doubt to Hallaj and assume that he was only being too philosophical (being on opium or bhang, being too full of himself, or simply having mind altering delusions could be some other possible explanations) it is no brainer that he violated another one of the oath that a Muslim makes with Allah. The oath is in the Chapter Al-Kafiroon (Atheists; Disbelievers). Here is the translation of the Chapter/oath:


AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

Say: O unbelievers!

I do not serve that which you serve,

Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:

Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,

Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.


This oath stipulates in no uncertain terms, our relationship with God and this relationship is only and only that of a servant or a worshipper; no matter what we do we cannot become Him or part of Him. Mansur Hallaj claimed to be the Absolute Truth, which violates the first oath that we discussed in the post below, because only Absolute is the Allah Himself.

Look at the title of this Chapter i.e. Atheists or Disbelivers. Almost every Ateists whom you will ask will claim that he belives in nothing, but in fact that is his belief. Hence Qura`n puts forth such a forcefull and irrefutable argument to atheists that only a stubborn one would claim that he can`t see the point. Elsewhere in Qura`n Allah challenges atheists that this Cosmos is the proof of His existence, what is the proof that you have. Such challenge can only come from the Devine. The text of the chapter makes it clear how disbelivers worship their own stubborness and hold it as a god itself.

Kaal,

I`m still pondering over this:

The Fourfold Negation:
The Buddha denied that we exist, denied that we do not exist, denied that we both exist and do not exist, and denied that we neither exist nor do not exist.

Do you know what it`s about?

#138 by kaalchakra

No. Iqbal was not a poet at all. Iqbal was a Mussalman ... no other Mussalman like him.

#136 by kaalchakra

(Finger waving icon)

Zee, Iqbal was a poet.

... add on #135 ... (forgot to write).

Still, Iqbal`s ``Khudi ko kar bulund itna key har taqdeer sey pehley; Khuda bandey sey khud poochey bata teri raza kya hai?`` makes one wonder what the hell did he mean by that?

Just to show how far poor Hussain Mansour bin Al-Hallaj had strayed from Islam consider the basic mahavakyas (Great Aphorisms) of Hinduism - which is complete polytheism and full shirk:

Aphorism 1: The Ultimate Knowledge/Truth/Consciousness is God.
Aphorism 2: I am God.
Aphorism 3: You are That.
Aphorism 4: This Atman is God.