Pakistan: Cricket World Cup

#28 by ijaz_gul

Ijaz, you do have valid points, but due to the sheer talent they possess, I wouldn`t rule out Pakistan`s chances entirely.

#29 by HisExcellency, #30 by CheGuevara, #31 by hasanmahmood

Folks, all said and done, the Paki Cricket team is an enigma and capable of pulling off surprises just about when everyone has given up hope. The `92 team, was full of teething problems (as the Paki team always is), yet they surprised everyone including themselves by winning the WC. Of course, Imran`s inspirational leadership and Javed`s experience were definitely major factors, but with such a talented bunch of youngsters, anything can happen.

I think you guys are being a bit too harsh on Inzi; the man has served Paki cricket well for the past decade and a half, and of all people, he would surely want to win the WC to leave his mark on Paki cricket history.

Don`t expect (just hope for!) Pakistan to win the WC, but don`t despair either. Pakistan is ranked 3rd (or is it 5th?) in ODIs and there is a reason why it is there.

.........Pakistan should have the following batting order........whenever the openers get a decent partnership, and see off the new ball, the team does well.......however, it seems like none of the top players are interested in taking up the opening slot.......other than saeed anwar, that has always been the case, i.e. the top players automatically drift to the safe 4 and 5 positions (miandad, zaheer, salim, inzamam, yusuf, etc.)....all at the safe 4 and 5 positions, where they can get a lot of runs.......

.......i think yonis is the only one who will take on the challenge....he should open.....he opens anyways, as the openers generally lose their wicket early......he has the best defence in the team and the most stamina..........shoaib malik is the best no. 3 pakistan has had in a long time, in ODIs.......his average is the highest as no. 3....significantly higher than yonis`s in ODIs.....pakistan was winning when shoaib was in no. 3.........however he was moved to 6 to make room for yonis, who hasn`t done as well as shoaib........statistically speaking, shoaib malik has the highest contribution % wise in the pakistan team (batting/bowling/fielding)........

.........the first five batsmen should bat normally or rather slowly, and save wickets......akmal, razzaq and afridi should be the accelerators.....pakistan should target consistently 150 to 200 for 4 in 40 overs (depending on the pitch)........and then target 75 to 100 runs in the last 10 overs...........

yonis khan
imran nazir
shoaib malik
yosuf
inzamam
kamran malik
razzaq
afridi
shoaib akhtar
umar gul
asif

extras (yasir hameed, rana naveed, danish kaneria)

australia, new zealand, south africa, pakistan in the semis..........as the pitches will suit pakistan and india (and west indies).........aus and south africa in finals.......and australia wins it..........

.......india has the strongest batting line up in the world now, with the return in form of sauruv ganguly, for such pitches........and assuming sehwag also performs again......however, the problem with india is that there whole bowling line-up can be hit for a lot of runs on such pitches.......so india will have to score 300+ regularly to win.....

.......if gul, asif and shoaib are fit, then pakistan will have the strongest bowling attack in the world for those pitches.....however, the batting will collapse, about 1/3rd of the time, even on flat pitches.......which means, they will win one or two unexpected games, but will not be able to win it all..........

bulleya,
actually according to the commentators, nobody knows how the pitches will react; but from the last news that they heard they will actually resemble pitches in South Africa. Go figure....Also, you are dreaming if you put Pakistan`s pace attack with that joker Umar Gul as No. 1 conveniently forgetting Ntini, Pollock, and Kallis from SA. Actually according to the Pundits Pakistan has the second best bowling trio behind SA and only if Asif, Shoaib, and Kaneria are considered. For some reason people are so in love with this third grade Umar Gul. This is what we have come down to. Instead of once debating between greats like Imran, Wasim and Waqar now we talk about this second rate cricketer named Umar Gul.
And as far as Semi-finals are concerned, then Australia, South Africa, India, and New Zeland will be the four with SA winning the world cup - NOT Australia.
By the way your opinion about Yunis is fully tainted for some reason. I dont think you have seen Yunis bat on fast pitches. He chases balls outside the line, and away from his body (two things taught to a batsmen when he is in kindergarten.). He also has a tendency to dance on his feet instead of following the ball. If you think Yunis is your savior, then I can only say that you are the reason why PCB makes these idiotic decisions and get away with them.
I am pretty sure you are an intelligent guy but come on. Are you gonna debate cricket with me. I have played upto first calss level and probably know a little bit more about it than you (No disrespect intended).

Romair,
so yet another openeing combination. you make it more unstable with shoaib at 3.
Cheerios

ijaz_gul #37: ``so yet another openeing combination. you make it more unstable with shoaib at 3.``

..yes, because the other opening combinations have all failed......and will continue to fail.....yonis practically opens anyways, as the first batsman usually falls within a few overs.......so why not have him open.......

........shoaib is the best no. 3 pakistan has had in a long time........he is very stable (even at no. 6)......his average at no. 3 has been between 43 and 46.......he was, infact, the top no. 3 batsman in the world, during his stint in that position; ahead of dravid, ponting etc.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/237528.html

Romair,
There are five issues here.
1. Leadership
2. Batting Openers
3. Shyness of Yousaf and Inzi to come up the order
4. Slow tempo of the middle order that specially when openers fail, exerting extra pressure on hard (all rounders)
5. Bowling Options.

With Shoaib coming as No.1, who do you intend adding in the late middle order as there are just two recognised batsmen left, one of them very sluggish. It also means that specialist bowlers will only bowl 30 years and 20 will be shared between Razzaq, Afridi and Shoaib. Therefore,
Openers are new, specialist bowlers if anyone fails or injures, have no options left. All four pacers are carrying niggles.
Cheerios

Curtosy hassanmahmood,

``The true character of a team can be judged by its captain and what he stands for. Since the last world cup, Inzimam has changed into a religious figure hell-bent on making everyone a good muslim and forgetting what cricket is about. When your captain is more interested in converting all the Christians and Hindus to Muslims and when he considers his triumph to convert Sacchin to Suleman, then it is time to find someone else to do the job. He can choose to become one of those religious fanatics known as MMA but he no longer deserves to be called a captain. His recent spat with Shoaib Akhtar and his insistence for not changing himself with times is a great example.
I still remember the 2003 world cup like it was yesterday. I remember driving for 3 hours to get to my friend’s house. I remember having a great time talking about how Pakistan has never beaten India in the world cup and how it was their time to do so. After all Pakistan team looked strong and if Akhtar bowled well we will easily win the game. Pakistan gave India a decent target to chase and we were all excited about Pakistan’s chances. And then the unthinkable (or should I say the predictable) happened. Sacchin came to bat and I still remember the short balls and above the head bouncers that Shoaib bowled to scare one of the best batsmen in the world. The result as all my readers probably have guessed by now was a shellacking that a normal Pakistani fan still does not talk about.
After cursing the Pakistan team for the rest of the day, we all thought that the whole team needs to be re-evaluated and wondered if anything will be done about it in the near future. Lo and behold, in the coming months, Pakitsan’s chief selector and one time great wicket keeper (who went into hiding since the India loss) quit (yes people he was NOT fired), and out-of-form players like Inzimam, and Afridi were sacked and asked to show their form in the domestic season to be reconsidered for the team. Lost in this whole mayhem was the fact that the only player who actually did anything in that match (Saeed Anwar) was let go. Like me every Pakistani probably felt that this was the start of something bad for Pakistani Cricket team.
Mr. Bari who already proved to be one of the worst members of Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) was rehired without any explanations. None of the media members had anything to say about it. Like always they did what they do best. Shut their mouth when it came to real injustice. The tragedy did not end there. All of the out-of-form players were recalled and Inzimam (who had left Cricket to pursue more religious matters) was called upon to lead that group of misfits. Now after 4 years of bad cricket and bad decision making we are exactly where we started 4 years ago with only one new face – “Mohammed Asif”. There are many reasons for Pakistan to plummet to such great depths. Why do we have no world class talent in the last 4 years other than Asif is a mystery. Hopefully I can do justice by explaining.

Emotional Pakistanis
The biggest reason is that Pakistanis are an emotional bunch who love their cricket. They refuse to look at the wrongs and therefore refuse to hold PCB idiots responsible for anything. I am sure that people who will read this will disagree with me because they are already in love with the team for the world cup. They refuse to realize the bad decision making of Inzimam and how it has cost us a lot of matches or how many matches probably should have been lost if not for some luck. The biggest match that comes to mind was the one-day between Pakistan and England where England lost 8 wickets early and then went on to add around a 100 runs for the 9th wicket partnership. Every commentator (including Ramiz) could not understand the strategy of not putting pressure on the tail-enders to get them out early. Result was a big partnership but Pakistan was lucky to come back and score to secure a win. No one questioned Inzimam on his stupid decision of allowing the tail-enders to bat because every Pakistani was extremely happy with just the win. Pakistanis, however forget that you can be lucky only so much and after that teams with true talent come out on top. That is exactly what is happening. Among the euphoria of how great our team is, people forget the bad captaincy of out greatest religious figure – Inzimam.

Domestic Cricket Infrastructure (DCI):
Pakistan’s DCI is the worst of any world class cricket nation. In the last four years we have produced 1 (yes just 1) world class player – “Mohammed Asif”. People can argue about Umar Gul , Shabbir Ahmed, and Rana Naved but the fact of the matter is that none of those players are even good enough to play County Cricket in England let alone represent Pakistan in the World Cup.
As Imran Khan has been shouting for the last decade or so, there is no reason for teams like UBL and PIA to play each other. This was somewhat changed in recent years by making city teams like Karachi A and Lahore A play each other but the results were the same. There was no excitement and nothing to root for. The competition was so bad that all these so-called Pakistani openers scared to play Brett Lee or Pollock were making centuries again Gul, Shabbir, and Rana in domestic cricket. The end result was bad players doing well amongst worst players. Like the saying “Andoh mein kaana raja” (a man with one eye is a king among the blind), they never were tested against good competition.
The other problem with DCI is the fact that merit is the last thing considered to make a team. Money and connections are much more important.
True talent without money and connections keep playing third class cricket on cemented pitches until they vanish underneath the realities of life and are forgotten.

Talent Search:
The reason why during Imran’s time we had bowlers like Waqar, Wasim, and Aaqib was because Imran had a knack of finding talent. He did not rightfully believe in DCI and found talent in other ways. He had camps setup where players could come and show their talents without any fear and they were chosen openly by the captain for his team without any PCB idiot’s input. Wasim Akram is the best example.
Pakistan should allow for camps for every city where new talent should come and showcase what he can do. Don’t let the same old faces in domestic cricket try to keep proving themselves.

Pitches:
Besides DCI having no marketing value, Pakistani pitches (like Hadlee once said) are like a morgue for a fast bowler. This gives rise to bad medium paced bowlers who could not get a side out. Also it gives rise to players like Yunis Khan who cannot play fast bowlers on fast pitches. He is described as “Happy feet” who loves to play outside the line without bringing his body behind his bat (Watch him and Sacchin play fast bowlers and you will see the difference). Plus we also get scared openers like Imran Farhat, who act like deer caught in headlights, after facing a legitimate fast bowler on a good and bouncy pitch (If anyone thinks Imran Farhat is a good batsman they should watch his batting again a good fast bowler. They will actually see him shaking)

Religion and Sports:
The worst thing that happened to Pakistan cricket was Inzimam trying to convert everyone to Islam rather than playing cricket. It has gotten so bad that our spin bowler who is a Hindu is now called a different name to portray him as a muslim. How many people know that Kaneria’s first name is NOT DANISH but DANESH. But for some reason it is very important for Inzimam to show that his team is completely Muslim. Indian team never cares about changing the names of its Muslim players to sound like Hindu name but we do so. I truly believe that Inzimam should be told to separate his view of Islam and cricket. He is no longer interested in making centuries. He is more interested in preaching HIS idea of Islam.

I know that my Pakistani brothers and sisters are very emotional and will read this and think that I am wrong and Pakistan team is great. But it is not. It is full of out-of-form players, and others who should not even be in Domestic Cricket. The only 4 players who deserve to be on the current Pakistani team 1. Mohammad Yousuf 2. Mohammed Asif, 3. Shahid Afridi (much consistent bowling than batting), and 4. Shoaib Malik. Everyone else is either unfit or out of form and should be replaced. The current team as it stands will not even be able to make to the third round. The only reason why they will even make it to the second round is because they have no decent competition in the first round. ``

ijaz_gul# ....i believe the pakistan team is currently ranked third in the world in ODIs and in test cricket..........this is about as high as it has ever been in both categories, other than in the final stages of imran khan`s time.......

.......this is despite the fact that pakistan has carried many injuries........most of all, it is despite the fact that the whole team had to be rebuilt after the last world cup.....look at the problems, australia is already starting to have, when three to four of its star players are gone........the day mcgrath and gilchrist retire, austrailia will have difficulties being no. 1.....similarly, india will have to go through a similar phase when dravid, ganguly, tendulkar and kumble retire simultaneoulsy......

pakistan went through that after the last world cup......more than half the team had to be replaced........however, within two to three years, it was back at no. 3, and almost no. 2 in the world.........not bad.......the current decline started during the recent english series.......all the bowlers were hurt........the moment they got back, pakistan was ready to win the third test (until the hair fiasco)........

.......nobody can win in south africa and australia, due to the bouncy and seaming tracks.......however, pakistan has beaten everyone in pakistan (other than australia).....and pakistan has defeated some teams abroad also......

.....pakistan has always won with its bowling....imran, wasim, waqar, mushtaq, qadir, kaneria, shoaib and now asif.........so if asif, shoaib and kaneria are fit, pakistan will defeat everyone in pakistan (other than australia), and do well against teams abroad (other than south africa and aus).........not bad......

.........as for shoaib, he should not open......he should be no.3......as mentioned below, he was the best no.3 in the world, when he was in that position in ODIs.......yonus and imran should open........if two out of the first three score, everyone else does really well.......

no. 6 should be kamran akmal.........he was averaging 44 in the previous two years in tests.......his last year has been bad, because he has been moved around a lot, and was unprepared to keep on seaming and bouncy tracks.........however, he will consistently get 30 runs at no. 6.........

Interesting writings from a Pakistani`s blog:

``Pakistan`s Largest Business Group

Far large than any of pakistan`s business groups is the Pakistan Army, which is the largest coroparate entity in Pakistan. It owns, through its civilian corporate and welfare arms - Fauji Foundation and Army Welfare Trust - :

the largest housing society in Pakistan; Defence Housing Society - larger than even Bahria Town.
the largest logsitic company in Pakistan - National Logistic Cell.
the largest fertilizer company; fauji fertilizer and Fauji Jordan
the largest cereal company - Fauji Corn Flakes
the largest Construction Company - Frontier Works Organization
Three Sugar Mills
One of the ten largest banks (Askari Bank)
A software company (Askari Computers)
Biggest Network of Universities (NUST)
Askari Potable Water

There isn`t enough room here to list the other companies the Army owns. But they are in the areas of Cement, Oil, Gas, Power, Corn, Polypropalene (whatever the hell that is), insurance, pharmeceuticals etc. etc. It has now even bid for the largest and most profitable govt. owned entity in Pakistan - Pakistan State Oil. This could be the biggest or second biggest privitization in Pakistan`s history. It has revenuens of $2.5 billion and owns 85% of Pakistan`s fuel oil market........... So the largest govt. owned entity in the country could be sold by the govt. to its own Army. The Army will obviously need to get a loan to buy this company, which it can conveniently take from its own Askari Bank. The bank can take a risk, because it always remains profitable because it has in its accounts the military budget !!

reply #42 was for another thread...my apologies for posting it here...

Re: # 40
Gul sahib,

just one minor correction, it was Rashed Latif and not Inzimam who took over the team after worldcup 2003. Inzimam replaced rashed in 2004 when the latter was maneuvered out of the team because of his continued crusade against match fixing.

Re: # 41

Bulleya Sahib

Pakistan was ranked third in 2003 for ODI`s, just ahead of the worldcup, we all know what happened next. Rankings really dont mean much when we look at the top five teams, cause there is very little difference between the teams. SA beat Pak comprehensively, yet they are ranked lower, its all about the most recent two to three year track record. Pakistan has been lucky they have played series at home or in the sub-continent with favorable results.

What makes the difference in the worldcup is preparation, willingness to take risks with responsibility, professional attitude and nerves of steel. Squad of 92 had all these attributes and strong leadership, that is lacking this time.

Pak problems during the SA tour was not just their injuries, biggest problem was the lack of batting form. Except for Mohd Yusuf and Yunis Khan, rest of the batsmen failed miserably, what can the bowlers do when they do not have a decent total to defend. Inzimam, Akmal, Hafeez, Farhat, Malik, Razzak they all failed to deliver on a consistent basis, some failed completly.

As for the injuries, there too Inzimam, Woolmer and team management should be held accountable for their inability to manage affairs that wud have avoided or reduced our problems. Even though Umer Gul was injured, he was dragged to South Africa and forced to play a side match which most probably aggravated his injury. Why on earth wud u risk your main strike bowler knowing he is injured and you have the biggest tournament in the next two months. Answer is very easy. Inzi did not want Shoaib Akhter to be in the side. Personal vendettas supercede nations interest. Then of course you had poor Asif carrying bulk of the attack, now anyone who has played cricket for a good fifteen years wud know that fast bowlers are prone to injury and need to managed. Not in Pakistan. Our power hungry, mentally handicapped captain refused to rest Asif and sent back the only other strike bowler (Kaneria) who cud have taken some pressure off for poor Asif. Now we are facing the prospects of a burntout Asif with an elbow injury.

Finally, your claim that no one can win in SA or Australia is not factually incorrect and its this kind of attitude that sud be strongly discouraged. Back in the seventies when WI used to be the greatest team on earth, this was the common perception that they were indestructible and no one can defeat them. Well Sir, there was this guy from Pakistan who technically nearly beat them in their backyard and those who remember those matches wud tell u that Pakistan sud have won that series had it not been for some shameless one sided umpiring. Imran khan is ranked in the top five all times best captains simply because he refused to accept mediocrity and had the courage to take on the best.

45rf786,
I agree. Captaincy was taken away from Rashid in the most scrupless manner.

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Romair,
You as usual have tried to detrack the arguements. Still I will reply to your points, something that surprises me cause you were on the other side of the line once.
the largest housing society in Pakistan; Defence Housing Society - larger than even Bahria Town. Yes these are lands purchased at commercial rates and sold to service officers. Their immecable managemnt puts them in a high quality of modern townships and appreciate very quickly. Those who raise the rates are not the armed forces but the market forces. Why cant other government departments make similar schemes with the same credibility. T
the largest logsitic company in Pakistan - National Logistic Cell. This was established to offset the transport mafia and in efficient railways. It fetches orders from open market.
the largest fertilizer company; fauji fertilizer and Fauji Jordan, Fauiji foundation is a comapny instituted under the Charity Act, looks after sick, wounded and very old including artificial limbs.
the largest cereal company - Ditto- Fauji Corn Flakes Caters for the Military requirements and competes in the open market.
the largest Construction Company - Frontier Works Organization Made the 8th wonder of the world.
Three Sugar Mills for military farm lands etc.
One of the ten largest banks (Askari Bank)
A software company (Askari Computers)
Biggest Network of Universities (NUST) These are miltary colleges that are brought under NUST.
Askari Potable Water . Yes I have an interest here. They provide the best possible water quality of bottled water, much superior to Nestle and Aquafina.

All this is military`s role in National Development. Plz dont stigmise it.

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Inzi believes that Pakistan won the 1992 world cup with luck. He said that we needed the same luck now. However he forgets that after repeated batting slumps in the first 5 matches, Imran chose to come up the order and hold the innings togather. Would he do something similar?

Pakistan Vs West Indies
13/3/207
Poor handling of fast bowlers, making Rao bowl at a trot, Bringing in Gul when not needed, Usua opening collapse, too slow batting by yousaf and Inzi, Too much pressure on the all rounders: Alas! Match lost.
The match unfortunately followed the script.
Cheerios