Exchange Siachen Madness for Mountain Peace

After decades, Siachen Glacier is making news for all the right reasons. Demilitarisation of the glacier as an option to resolve the dispute about it has been on the table since late 1980s. When the then Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had come to Pakistan to attend a summit meeting of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (Saarc) during the first government of Benazir Bhutto, an agreement for demilitarisation had been all but signed. The only thing that could have materialised -- that is, the willingness of the two militaries -- was never forthcoming.

Now enjoy quality WATER...as , reforesting lands surrounding Siachen glacier will improve water quality.
``Water Joke`` for the redears

A man goes to the doctor and tells him that he hasn`t been feeling well. The doctor examines him, leaves the room and comes back with three different bottles of pills. The doctor says:
``Take the green pill with a big glass of water when you get up. Take the blue pill with a big glass of water after lunch. Then just before going to bed, take the red pill with another big glass of water.``
Startled to be put on so much medicine the man stammers:
``Please Doctor tell me, exactly what`s my problem?``
Doctor says,
``You`re not drinking enough clean water.``


................that is problem with the Authers of this Article!!!!!!!!!!..........Ha Haaaaaaaa.......

Indian Army plantting trees to save Water for Pakistan.
Look at the latest step taken by Indian..
Siachen soldiers go green

A mention of Siachen ~ the world’s highest, costliest and coldest battlefield ~ reminds us of a huge expanse of a river of snow extending from heights ranging from 15,000 to 21,000 feet in the great Himalayan range. This barren stretch of rugged terrain is one of the most inhospitable places in the world.
The glacier and its adjoining areas will look quite different as the Army’s Siachen Brigade has initiated the “Green Siachen” project in its areas of operation. Siachen will become a green paradise, a few years from now.
With the endeavour of the 102 Infantry Brigade, Siachen has witnessed massive afforestation in an effort to cover the desolate expanses of rock and snow with vegetation on the frozen frontiers. Taking note of global warming, a burning issue worldwide, the Army has planted more than one lakh saplings in the Siachen sector. Being a high altitude, cold desert, Ladakh already poses a challenge in terms of irrigation and afforestation. Falling in the Siachen axis, the valleys of Nubra and Shyok, as elsewhere in Ladakh, are characterised by minimal precipitation and paucity of vegetation, resulting in low oxygen levels, a common feature in the high altitudes.
But no longer will such a situation prevail, given the enthusiasm of the Siachen Brigade. Having planted saplings near the snout of the glacier and the Nubra and Shyok valleys which do not remain snow-bound round the year, the soldiers are now nourishing the plants. “The highest battleground of the world with snow-clad, lofty mountains has sub-arctic climatic conditions, devoid of any vegetation from its foothills,” says Lt-Gen JK Mohanty, Corps Commander, of the Leh-based 14 Corps. The Army has essentially planted saplings to increase oxygen levels.
Each soldier posted on the glacier, while moving further up on the gruesome heights of the Saltoro Ridge, has planted at least five saplings. The responsibility to keep these saplings alive till he returns from his tenure at the glacier is given to another soldier. On his return, he looks after his own saplings as well as those planted by his fellow soldier, while the latter is away.
The exercise to green the Siachen glacier was kick-started by General Mohanty four months ago by planting saplings at the Siachen snout, at a height of 12,300 feet. The target was to plant 1,2000 saplings, signifying the 102 Siachen Brigade under project Green Siachen.
But the number has crossed the target and the plantation drive continues in certain areas.
“We wanted to improve the habitat on which we have spent years with the aim of reducing soil erosion, improving water conservation and oxygenating the rarefied atmosphere,” said Brigadier Om Prakash, commander of Siachen Brigade, adding that the effort is also a quantum leap for the survival of the region’s fauna.
In an area that remains under snow for more than six months, this drive has remained successful. “Afforestation is important. The area is prone to erosion due to wind and water. That can be saved over the years,” says scientist, FRL, Siachen Brigade, Dr Ankur Aggarwal.
Executing the task was not easy. The entire brigade area was divided into Nubra and Shyok. The areas selected were not restricted to Army camps and posts but even villages along Nubra and Shyok.
With the area being allocated, the units began preparations by first carrying out a reconnaissance to select the sites, followed by digging pits, adding village soil to them, making watering arrangements and collecting manure.
Tulu pumps were used for pumping water; check dams were built to channel the water. Water was channelled from rivers and nullahs to the plantation area. Pumps with generators were used to pump out water from tanks to save manpower and time. Then saplings suited to the area such as willows, poplars and seabuck thorn were collected.
The sapling requirement was met from branches grafted from the trees in villages nearby and sia bushes (sia means wild rose) in the neighbourhood. If planting the saplings was not an easy job, ensuring their survival is tougher.
The guardians of the frozen frontiers are carefully nurturing the plants and improvising methods to save manpower and for timely completion of work.
As winter prevails in Ladakh, the saplings in Siachen are being protected from the extreme cold. They are covered with soil from the villages and wrapped in polythene. “This is an indigenous method we learnt from the villagers. We will re-open the cover with the onset of spring when the saplings sprout leaves,” said Colonel Sunil Kumar, commanding officer of a unit posted at the Siachen Base Camp.
“We have planted at least 1, 17,538 saplings. Nurturing, watering and keeping them alive is a challenging task for which an action plan is in place. The fact that the saplings have survived goes to prove the care they receive,” he added.
Today, the cold desert stands greener than ever. Orchards and lush green crops bear testimony to the fact that it is possible to achieve the impossible, with determination

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Further to # 94, it also was during the Congress rule that the militancy in Jammu and Kashmir began , the cause being the Congress rulers in the Centre tried to rig the election in the state

#93 by Pardesi

Yaar Pardesi, thanks for the kind words. Indeed, we still have ages to go when it comes to valuing human life, irrespective of religion because underneath the skin, we`re all the same. Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, or Christian, we all bleed red. The day we recognize this, we`ll be a far different people than we are right now.

Re #93

The poster is obviously and justifiedly still carrying the scars of what happened during the miltancy in Punjab and the following unfortunate killing of Indira and even more unpardonable massacre of the Sikhs. No words are enough to condemn what happened and most of us are sympathetic to these unfortunate events.

Unfortunately right from before partition the Congress party has been the main villain for the Nation . Nehru bartered away Pakistan because he wanted the premiership. In 1948 Kashmir conflict India`s generals had requested for one more week to liberate entire Kashmir, Nehru decided to take the issue to UN. Had he heeded to the Army`s advice, we would have had a border with Afghanistan, got a direct land route to USSR and we would have been consulted on Afghan matters. This folly has allowed Pakistan to play the dog in the manger as for as our access to the Westerly countries is concerned.
In 1962 during Congress rule India had to face a humiliating defeat at China`s hands and today those dirty chinks are sitting on our territory. Instead of accepting the failure, Nehru had the cheek to say that the land we lost was like his bald (i think empty as well) head, where not a blade of grass grew.
The Congress alone has to be blamed for the unfortunate events in Punjab. By building up Bhindranwale Indira not only cooked her own goose but alienated the Sikh population by the assault on Harmandir Saheb. Her son Rajiv allowed the mayhem against Sikhs and created a further schism between the Sikh population and the rest of the country. With these stupid policies Congress cut off the sword arm of the Nation, because after the discrimination, suffering, killings, insults and ignominy that they have had to go through in those years it is anybody`s guess whether this magnificent community will wholeheartedly fight for the Nation in any future war as they had done in the previous ones.

The Congress under Rajiv created another blunder by sending the Indian troops to Sri Lanka. The Sri Lankans were laughing in their sleeves while our army was engaging the Tamil rebels, the same country which was earlier training Tamil tigers.

The Congress has not had enough , it wants to do further damage, the scoundrels VP Singh and Arjun Singh have ensured that caste system will survive for ever, let the country go to the dogs.

Now Congress has a foreign natonal as its party head and are flouting it too.

Re: # 75

Harish,

That was a very good post.

When I said “Hindu culture” what I meant was the composite ancestral culture of which we all are product of whether today we call ourselves Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims. Practically all of us are part of it (and it needs tremendous upgrade), since none of us came from Mars, Mecca or Madina. Sikh gurus tried major upgrades, succeeded quite a bit at the time, but job is not done. Gautam Buddha and Gandhi also tried to change our ways and you know what happened to Gandhi and Buddhism. Muslims tried to get some good values from Arabs but seems like they have not gone much further from their roots either except a few superficial changes and I will not go into a few not so great values that I wish they had not acquired from Arabs.

So my point is that while there are many things that we all can be proud of (curious and analytical minds for one) there are huge weaknesses that over time can sink us like it did earlier in our history. Remember we invented zero, built Somnath, Ajanta and magnificent Mohanjodaro and Taxila and thought we were the “sone ki Chidiya” and still winded up in shit holes for centuries.

Biggest weakness is sycophancy- leaders get killed and people are hanged right away while no real action is taken when ordinary folks get butchered. Not only that, Federal government sponsors killings and the Bewkoof public celebrates because they have been conditioned to think that either “Bharat Mata is in danger” or “Islam is in danger” if anything happened to the leaders. Take India for example, Indira gets killed; tens of thousands of people get butchered by the new prime minister. Next time Rajiv is killed, there is not much of reaction since by that time people had been unconditioned. Now after 16 years, when India is doing much better that this Kashmiri gang is gone, every smart and successful person is screaming at top of his lungs that these bastards were the worst thing that happened to India. Real question is where were these smart folks when Indira was so adamant in keeping such tight control from her Delhi darbar.

In effect, life is cheap and we have poor law and order situation unless you play along what the elite wants and do what’s in vogue. Our (Indian or Pakistani) elites are very cunning and smart and have the best Harvard/Oxbridge vocabulary and will keep their interests protected and just like in old days, these folks want to teach people lesson if they dare to speak up or threaten their interests. The instruments have changed but result is same. Just look at Pakistani folks writing about their feudal system and how that mafia controls the country or what our jamidars do to Harijans or what Indira / Rajiv did to Sikhs. Net result – people stop giving damn about anything other than making money by hook or crook and mantra is screw other folks. Corruption and self survival become the second nature.

This is my last post on the topic. Please feel free to write your thoughts. This gets me very upset and since all this effort is really worthless anyway, why bother. It’s much better to watch 24 show and see how Jack Bauer is going to save our civilized western world.

Regards.

The strategic importance of the Siachen glacier is self evident, India can monitor the activities of china and Pakistan, while sitting at higher place.

The recent reports of IPCC [The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] consists of world`s leading climate scientists, in their most powerful language ever used on the issue, said global warming is ``very likely`` man-made. In the report, it is warned and advised decision maker that human activities are causing global warming and the same practice continues then the probable temperature rise by the end of the century will be between 1.8C and 4C (3.2-7.2F),Possible temperature rise by the end of the century ranges between 1.1C and 6.4C (2-11.5F),Sea levels are likely to rise by 28-43cm,Arctic summer sea ice is likely to disappear in second half of century ,It is very likely that parts of the world will see an increase in the number of heat-waves and Climate change is likely to lead to increased intensity of tropical storms. The report by a group of hundreds of scientists and representatives of 113 governments contains the most authoritative science on the issue. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP).
In my opnion the India have to play the roll of big brother have to vocate glacier for beterment of south-asia.

#81 by muqaddam

The poster at #80 has unwittingly admitted that it was Pak Army which was involved in the `47 Agression of Kashmir, a fact which has been all along denied by Pakistan saying it was a local uprising.

And those who say that the use of non-state actors like terrorists began with military dictators are being a bit facetious here. It began right in 1947 when the Paki government (led by Jinnah) used a mix of tribals from the Frontier province and armed forces regulars to invade the state of Jammu and Kashmir.

AJK or PIK, ask the Kashmiries living in north America

Hey bhangilauroo #87 ...

sure..keep AJK.....thanks for giving up IOK for good by your inability to get it back..

So who`s fighting to get it back? Not me. Your 700,000 macaca troops are not at the Pak/Hindooland borders .. they`re inside territory under your `own` control .. haha ....

#85 by zeemax on February 20, 2007 7:24am PT


Haha ... Mrs. Zeemax just got me tea


I always knew you guys were too poor to own a cab medallion so you had to share one..is this the same kind of deal?


thanks for giving me AJK for good


umm..sure..keep AJK.....thanks for giving up IOK for good by your inability to get it back..

Siachen glacier is now in save hands, othewise pakistani may melt it with laser.
please check BBC and New science reports

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1248980.stm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2001/298510.htm

#83 by bhangi_lauroo

Haha ... Mrs. Zeemax just got me tea ... while Mrs. bhangi_lauroo is not yet back from turning tricks last night to make ends meet for the lower-middle class trailer park economic migrant from bhangi_lauroo ..

:~)

#82 by bhangi_lauroo

....paki control means it was paki territory...

Haha .. sure ... thanks for giving me AJK for good ... haha

Abey ... now can you please tell me who was it in the makeshift hammock stretcher?

Haha ...

#80 by zeemax on February 20, 2007 5:39am PT


p.s. you didn`t answer my question...does your wife now get 72 male virgins or is it girl on paki retard action?

#80 by zeemax on February 20, 2007 5:39am PT

paki control means it was paki territory...and india got paki territory...that`s unlike the paki army that miserably failed to get kargil and withdrew abandoning the bodies of it`s soldiers...now that wouldn`t be a problem without global warming but with global warming, i`m sure the rising temparetures mean the bodies are rotting...no 72 virgins for them...

``Tahmed32 is right. Hindooland didn`t gain an inch ... but just managed to get back what was captured by Pak in 1947 ... ``.

The poster at #80 has unwittingly admitted that it was Pak Army which was involved in the `47 Agression of Kashmir, a fact which has been all along denied by Pakistan saying it was a local uprising.

#77 by rabid_ITBillionaire aka bhangilauru

Haha ... mirchi....

Abey, why didn`t you reproduce the fiollowing from that wiki link eh? Why did you only reproduce the latter part of the same paragraph? Typical dishonest lower middle-class trailer park economic miigrant ...

``There were pitched battles fought around Kargil which saw the entire area initially coming under Pakistan control before most of it being reclaimed by Indian troops and remained with India after the ceasefire ...... The area shot into the spotlight in spring of 1999, ... armed infiltrators from Pakistan, aided by the Pakistani army, occupied vacant high posts belonging to India in the Kargil and Drass regions. The result was a limited scale conflict (Kargil War) between both nuclear equipped nations that ended with India regaining the Kargil region .... ``

Tahmed32 is right. Hindooland didn`t gain an inch ... but just managed to get back what was captured by Pak in 1947 ... haha ... idiot.

so this explains the bombing, probing and kidnapping of paki citizens on paki soil....

Pentagon for attack on camps in N. Waziristan: NYT

By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Feb 19: The Pentagon has advocated direct US strikes against alleged Al Qaeda training camps inside North Waziristan where the terrorist group appears to have made new inroads, the New York Times reported on Monday.

The concern about a resurgent Al Qaeda has been the subject of intensive discussion at high levels of the Bush administration, the report said, and has reignited debate about how to address Pakistan`s role as a haven for militants without undermining the government of President Pervez Musharraf.

The Pentagon, the report said, wanted direct US strikes against the camps, but others warned that any raids could result in civilian casualties.

“State Department officials say that increased American pressure could undermine President Musharraf`s military-led government,” the report added.

Last week, President Bush`s senior counterterrorism adviser, Frances Fragos Townsend, went to Afghanistan to consult security officials about rising US concerns on Al Qaeda`s resurgence in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Quoting unnamed intelligence sources, the newspaper reported that Al Qaeda, the terrorist network led by Osama bin Laden, had established a new operating organization after being ousted more than five years ago from its safe haven in formerly Taliban-run Afghanistan.

now that prophet tahmed(pbuhsrr)`s claim about India not having gained an inch of land has been shown to be true only ins his alternate universe, the prophet will run away from the point he made...

#76 by zeemax on February 20, 2007 1:11am PT

your wife already died a suicide bomber...your son is probably headed to gitmo as we speak.....your inbred retard bottom of the social barrel brit-paki brothers are being rounded up by the british cops....

so i can understand your frustration...

... hey ... does anyone know who was the wounded guy in the hammock ???

#48 by Pardesi

Indian sycophancy and opportunitism also derive its roots from Hindu culture. Rajiv and Indira exploited it to hilt just like British and Muslim invaders.

While I am with you on the second one, I fail to understand why you feel Hindu culture is to blame.

How many Hindus took out mass protests against Rajiv after the 1984 massacres? How many Hindus died to protect those innocent Sikhs?

Is dying alone a proof of intentions? I know of many Hindus who at great risk to their lives sheltered Sikhs from the marauding mobs. Under the circumstances, many did what they could to help them. I (a Madrassi) was then a kid staying with an uncle and I saw the whole apartment full of scared Sikhs. My uncle and aunt themselves took in a dozen of them, cooked food for them and tried their best to make them feel at home. I didn`t understand the magnitude of the tragedy then, but looking back today, I`m proud of those who did whatever little they could, considering the threats that were being hurled their way.

And yaar tell me how many Indian Sikhs protested against the atrocity? Has there been a sustained movement on the part of influential Sikhs (and there are quite a lot of them) to bring justice to the victims? I hate to talk in terms of Hindus this and Muslims that, but why should Hindus alone be blamed when Sikhs themselves haven`t done too much? Many Sikhs continue to be proud Congressmen, when a simple boycott of the party could have sent a message that they haven`t forgiven it for its complicity.

It’s pathetic and shows how much more the culture has to evolve.

I agree that we as Indians are still a long way away from the values of truth and justice but hopefully someday, we`ll get there.

Re:tahmed#70

[..India been winning all the wars as you assure me, and yet does not have one inch more turf than it did in 1947....]

Tahmed, I know Pakistanis have this secret fantasy of Indian forces rolling into Pakistan some day and taking them back into the fold of mother India. When people protest so loudly about something NOT happening, they secretly wish it actually did happen!! Its kind of like how hindus come on chowk and insist stubbornly about cutting off all links to Pakistan. :-)

However, you are out of luck. We do not want your land. We would rather visit Lahore as tourists for Basant and enjoy your hospitality than show up with tanks and suffer suicide blasts. Just protect the northwest and keep away the X-e-Y type riff-raffs from Kashmir, and we will be all set.

arjun: i write a post to you and to another to ranjit. And you ignore the post addressed to you and start responding to the post to the other individual. I think your dyslexia is getting worse..... :-(

#71 first tell me - did you finally take your pills today?

#70 by tahmed32 on February 19, 2007 7:31pm PT



ranjit #65 Isnt it amazing - India been winning all the wars as you assure me, and yet does not have one inch more turf than it did in 1947.


maybe not in your fictional pakiworld..in the real world...

Kargil

However in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 the entire Kargil region including key posts was captured for good by Indian troops.[1] In order to straighten out the line of control in the area, the Indian Army launched night attacks when the ground temperatures sank to below -17º and about 15 enemy posts located at height of 16,000 feet and more were captured. [2] After Pakistan forces lost the war and agreed to the Shimla Agreement, Kargil and other strategic areas nearby remained with India.[

ranjit #65 Isnt it amazing - India been winning all the wars as you assure me, and yet does not have one inch more turf than it did in 1947. And as a result of all these amazing victories, India has managed to brilliantly exchange change the military equation from one of superiority in conventional arms to one of a nuclear stalemate. But then, what are ``elder brothers`` for if not to do these small favors. :-)

arjun #66: I know it is frustrating to be reminded to take your pills. But remember: it is for your own good. These pills will make your dyslexius macacus better. Soon you will be able to start reading my posts, rather than reading hallucinations as you were doing below!! :-)

Actually, mullah32 thinks that it was no big deal that Arora did what he did to them... anybody could have done it, anybody could have just walked in and ripped pakis apart... which is true... :)

He he... closet mullah32, the classic paki... Gen. Arora screwed pakis royally in the a$$, but mullah32 says it was good for them... ha ha... No wonder pakis have turned GUBOing into fine art... :)

#64 by tahmed32 on February 19, 2007 1:37pm PT


those blue pills
Take your green pills


prophet tahmed(pbuysrr): you seem to know a bit too much about the colors of pills for that kind of affliction...from personal experience?

Re:tahmed#57

[...but dont let me stop you Indians from gloating over a ``victory`` - given that military ``victories`` are in short supply to Indians throught history. :-)

.....So, thanks anyway for that favor, our Indian friends, who unwittingly end up helping Pakistan every time they try to do some mischief. ]

We may be at the low end of the global hierarcy of military victories, but we have the supreme satisfaction of seeing Pakistan at even lower level than us. :-)

As far as helping Pakistan is concerned, here is the deal - Pakistan is like an irritating younger brother, who knows it lags behind us but still wants to interfere and compete in everything we do with a ``me too`` plea. While we may want to beat the crap out of it once in a while, we still have a soft corner for it and will never destroy it. In any case, we will always protect it from the neighborhood riff raff, especially the unwashed jihadis from Afghanistan or elsewhere. So just call us ``bade bhaiyya`` and all will be forgiven. :-)

and where did i claim to be an ``expert`` in military victories?? I told the nurse to stop giving you those blue pills in #60 - and I can see she hasnt done that yet. So you continue to suffer from dyslexius macacus. :-(

#62 arjun: you are a seriously sick man. Take your green pills, do something about your hallucinations, and stop wasting time trying to discuss politics.

#60 by tahmed32 on February 19, 2007 1:20pm PT

prophet tahmed: since you`re claiming to be the expert on military victories, what do you think of the paki army declaring victory after abandoning the bodies of it`s soldiers while withdrawing?

hamidm #58 ``Council of Islamic Ideology`` indeed!! More like the ``Council of Apes who dance to the Mush Tune``.

#59 arjun: where did i say anything about kargil or the pakistan army?


....aside to self: hmmmmm.....I can see those blue pills are having serious side affects, causing dyslexius macacus to the macaca, causing him to read things that are not written. Must tell the nurse to switch to the green pills and see if that works.

#57 by tahmed32 on February 19, 2007 11:09am PT

ahem...

the paki army sneaking up on vacated mountains in kargil and then getting it`s ass kicked out, after leaving the bodies of it`s soldiers behind, is a brilliant ``tactical move`` by the paki army..

no houris for you !

it seems that there is some doubt as to whether you qualify for 72 virgins if you freeze to death in siachin .......... it doesn`t seem fair, but there it is

GHQ seeks CII fatwa on martyrs

ISLAMABAD: General Headquarters has asked the Council of Islamic Ideology to issue a decree, or fatwa, stating whether a soldier killed in Pakistan while fighting terrorists or pre-empting sectarianism is a martyr. GHQ sent a list of eight questions to the council about the various circumstances in which a soldier who dies on duty can be considered a martyr. The council responded to GHQ that it was not within its ambit to issue decrees, but it was forwarding the questions to muftis. The replies of the muftis were sent back to GHQ, but not published in the CII’s report. GHQ asked the CII’s opinion on the status of soldiers killed in accidents during military exercises or on the way to war zones, or who die of mountain sickness on Siachen; soldiers killed in a border area or along the Line of Control in a stove blast, or a landmine explosion; and about Pakistani soldiers killed while serving abroad under the United Nations. mohammad imran

#55 So Aurora ran over a garrison that was surrounded by a hostile population, thousands of miles away from any reinforcements, no air cover. Aurora may have been a decent individual personally (from what you quote him as saying, he is certainly a cut above the average Indian on chowk)...but dont let me stop you Indians from gloating over a ``victory`` - given that military ``victories`` are in short supply to Indians throught history. :-)

And....``dismembering`` Pakistan in fact made Pakistan a secure nation, free from the multiple political, economic, social and cultural issues. So, thanks anyway for that favor, our Indian friends, who unwittingly end up helping Pakistan every time they try to do some mischief.

Re: # 49

Kedar,

I have never defended Bhindrawale or his associates and their actions. In fact tell us why Punjab government was not dissolved much earlier and why Indira had to wait until 1984 to cleanse the Golden Temple. So, I am with you when you say that the government, and specifically central government, has an obligation to maintain law and order to protect lives and properties of all of its citizens – Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims. If any single person or his cohorts (in this case Bhindrawale) get out of control, bring on the army and get rid of them. Don’t blame average Sikh for that.

What gets me is what can people do when the central government becomes the terrorist machine as it happened in 1984? How do you protect against that? Which army/organization the victims can appeal to? Should they fight back and be called terrorists? Or should they submit to rulers of Delhi and learn to survive? And if minorities have to submit to the democratically elected killers, how are we different than other lesser developed tribal societies?

I know it may be hard for you to understand that, but in more advanced civilized world, the government is respected and gets loyalty because it protects each and every citizen irrespective of their faith and does not use collective punishment as a tool to rule. They eliminate trouble makers much earlier before too many innocent lives are lost.

Some other gems from your post and my responses:

. 1984 incidences were not riots - These were massacres sponsored and funded by central overnment. Riots are when two communities are going after each other. In this case our peaceful central government was the killer machine.

. Khalistani – every person that questions underlying morality of a society, of which we all are product of, should not be labeled whatever you wish. Open your mind and let’s try to learn from the unfortunate incidents. If we don’t, these things will keep repeating against other minorities if not Sikhs, and India may take much longer to reach its true potential.

. You defending Sikhs abroad – Please defend Kashmir and that should be more than enough. Don’t worry about Sikhs. They can take care of themselves.

Lt General J S Aurora the hero of subcontinent, who signed the surrender treaty with Pakistan`s General A A Niazi [Tiger] on December 16, 1971, said on one occasion “ I must say that I was in charge of the Eastern sector and in 13 days of fighting we won a decisive victory in the East. My personal view is that dismembering Pakistan would not have solved the problem of animosity between the two countries. As a human being I feel that a new course we will have to learn to live each and not continue to fight at the expense of the progress of each country”
This was the vision of a real General of democratic about Pakistan and ask same question…to Pakistani general….. still thinking of Delhi fort…Kashmir…… Perhaps due to real-estate value

The reason why Hindu must be sternly dealt with issues like Siachin: