India: Is Growth Coming at Expense of Development

Re: # 88

Zeemax,

Kya karein ? We don`t have the chowk-brightening brilliance of people like you and
yours in our Finance ministry, and have to make do with the inadequate Chidambarams
and the Manmohan Singhs. Neither do they have the Armani elegance of your ruling
class.

A Brahmin girl (rape victim) seeks permission to die

http://www.indiaenews.com/india/20070222/40557.htm

Thursday, February 22, 2007

Justice, or permission to die, rape victim tells Kalam

From correspondents in Bihar, India, 09:32 PM IST

A rape victim from Bihar, tired of facing threats, humiliation and social ostracisation, has sought justice or permission to die from President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam.

In a handwritten letter in Hindi addressed to the president, 16-year-old Kusum Kumari (named changed) has requested Kalam to intervene in getting her justice as she had lost hope in the local police. `Kalam chacha mujhe security aur nyay dila dein nahin to maut (Kalam uncle, help me to get justice or allow me to die),` she wrote.

Kusum is a resident of Patahi village in the Muzaffarpur district of Bihar, about 70 km from here. She was allegedly raped by a neighbour Jimmy Thakur who comes from an influential family.

Her plight worsened after she lodged a police complaint against Thakur, which led to his arrest. After investigating into her charges against Thakur the police had found the rape incident to be true.

In October last year when the police tried to speed up the trial of the case `Jimmy Thakur`s father Anil Thakur, his relatives and people from his caste started putting pressure on my family to withdraw the case and threatened to eliminate us, but we refused,` she said.
According to the FIR, Jimmy Thakur allegedly raped her on the night of Sep 27 last year. `I was raped at the point of a sharp-edged weapon and warned not to open my mouth,` she added.

The threats and mental torture continue, said the girl who comes from an upper caste Brahmin family. Fear and social reaction forced her father to flee the village and she has stopped going to school.

Her father, a priest who earned a living by performing prayers in the houses of villagers, `was boycotted by people from Jimmy Thakur`s caste as well as by others. This forced him to take shelter in another village to earn a living,` said the girl.

Kusum has said that not only did Thakur`s family and people from their caste regularly torture her, but her father, brothers and sister were also targeted and humiliated time and again in the last five months. `They threatened to repeat the incident with my younger sister,` said Kusum.

More trouble came when the Thakur family`s domestic help, a Dalit boy, lodged a case with the SC/ST police station in Hajipur against her father and sister saying they had beaten him.

Kusum is now awaiting a reply from President Kalam`s office before taking any step.
However, the DIG of Tirhut range, Gupteshwar Pandey, said that he had ordered a probe into her allegations against Jimmy Thakur`s family and others. The police would do everything to provide security to the rape victim and ensure a speedy trial of the case, he added.

`A police personnel had been deployed at her house. I asked the district superintendent of police to inquire into her fresh charges and take steps to protect her and her family,` said Pandey.

#83 by plats8

What can chaddibroomboom do with his budget given 11% tax/gdp? If he increases deficit then what about the rising inflation which is burning his chaddi? Haha ..

And you`re right. There is no comparison. Pakistan`s measure of poverty is 2350 calories intake per day and Hindoostan`s measure is 2150 calories per day i.e. 200 calories less and still most of hindoostan is bhooka nanga ...

That`s the dilemma of chaddibroomboom .....

:~)

Harimau #84,

``In India, CASTE RULES! And I, as a Brahmin, RULE OVER YOU!!``

It is hard to argue with such deep proclamations of faith, but which part of
India are you exactly from ? Because caste certainly doesn`t RULE in my part
of the country - it exists in a fairly blah manner, without intruding into real
life.

Another article on reverse discrimination

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm

Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?

Francois Gautier | May 23, 2006 | 16:41 IST

At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?

There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have!

There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 per cent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi`s railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job.

``Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well,`` he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: ``Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for gaushalas (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins.``

You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of Patel Nagar`s rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages.

Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families.

Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?
This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu. Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins -- the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs.

400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits, now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible.
And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (Brahmins of India by J Radhakrishna, published by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line.

Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the `backward classes` prevented them from providing secular education to their children.

In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.

The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line -- below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.

There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562, Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.

Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.
According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of Endowments statistics).

Priests are under tremendous difficulty today, sometimes even forced to beg for alms for survival. There are innumerable instances in which Brahmin priests who spent a lifetime studying Vedas are being ridiculed and disrespected.

At Tamil Nadu`s Ranganathaswamy Temple, a priest`s monthly salary is Rs 300 (Census Department studies) and a daily allowance of one measure of rice. The government staff at the same temple receive Rs 2,500 plus per month. But these facts have not modified the priests` reputation as `haves` and as `exploiters.` The destitution of Hindu priests has moved none, not even the parties known for Hindu sympathy.

The tragedy of modern India is that the combined votes of Dalits/OBC and Muslims are enough for any government to be elected. The Congress quickly cashed in on it after Independence, but probably no other government than Sonia Gandhi`s has gone so far in shamelessly dividing Indian society for garnering votes.

The Indian government gives Rs 1,000 crores (Rs 10 billion) for salaries of imams in mosques and Rs 200 crores (Rs 2 billion) as Haj subsidies. But no such help is available to Brahmins and upper castes. As a result, not only the Brahmins, but also some of the other upper castes in the lower middle class are suffering in silence today, seeing the minorities slowly taking control of their majority.

Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism.

So the question has to be asked: are the Brahmins (and other upper castes) of yesterday becoming the Dalits of today?

Reverse discrimination has started in India. Brahmins are now the new victims of caste violence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1505978,00.html

Villagers fall victim to India`s caste war


Brahmins and Dalits, at the top and the bottom of Hindu society, seek political alliance to fight `Yadav Raj`

Randeep Ramesh in Kannauj

Tuesday June 14, 2005

The Guardian

Suresh Chandra Pandey`s mutilated body was discovered more than a year ago, less than half a mile from his mud and stone house in the sleepy village of Nunnar, some 220 miles south-east of Delhi.

It was a violent execution-style killing; the 50-year-old farm labourer was hung up, shot in the chest and finally had his arms removed from the elbow joints.

Everyone knows who the murderers are, say his family, but the killers have not been brought to justice. The police, the local administration and the local MP will not lift a finger to help, they add.

``They are all from the same caste. They are all Yadavs and they control everything here,`` said his wife, Annadevi, 40. ``They have left me with nothing and my children with no father. We are just poor people.``

Villagers say the gruesome attack was a ``warning`` not to challenge the Yadav caste, the local land-owning elite.

``Suresh had argued with some Yadavs before a wedding in our village. That is why they killed him,`` said Pandey`s elder brother, Ashwani. ``We are being told not to fight back.``
Pandey was a Brahmin, traditionally placed at the top of India`s society and revered as priests and teachers. His alleged killers are Yadavs, once cow farmers, whose land holdings and cohesive ethnic identity have today made them politically powerful.

In another incident an upper caste man, Rupendra Singh, from Nagla village in Kannuaj district, was shot dead in front of his mother in a dispute over 11 acres of land. Again, his alleged killers are Yadavs.

In the past, tales of upper caste atrocities were commonplace in India. So a murder of a Brahmin by a Yadav would have been seen as a reprisal by an oppressed community for some bloody, unwarranted attack.

But the middle caste has risen in India, fuelled by a state-sponsored affirmative action programme and some penetrating land reforms, especially in the ``cow belt`` that stretches from Delhi to Calcutta.

In southern Uttar Pradesh, an outbreak of Sicilian-type violence has raged for more than a year in and around the sunflower fields of India`s most populous state, leaving 140 dead. Most victims were either Brahmins, at the top of Hinduism`s hierarchy, or Dalits (``untouchables``), found at the bottom.

Both these communities say they are now in the sights of the lower-middle orders of Hindu society. In the towns and villages, Brahmins and Dalits can be found joining hands across often centuries of caste animosity and prejudice to fight ``Yadav Raj`` (Yadav rule).
Not far from Nunnar in the unpaved lanes of Kasawa, there is evidence of a caste war being fought. Dalit homes have been destroyed, their walls smashed until the roofs collapsed. A local Brahmin, Neeraj Mishra, who came to the aid of the untouchables was beheaded.

Mishra`s, elder brother, Munish, said the trouble started during last year`s parliamentary elections, ``when the Yadavs came here in cars with guns. They stopped people from voting and my brother and two Dalits protested. For that they were killed.``

Although 2,000 Dalits live in Kasawa, none could remember what happened last year in the town. All appear too terrified of speaking out for fear of reprisals.

Munish Mishra said a political spat quickly spiralled out of control, with shoves, blows and finally bullets being exchanged. In the ensuing violence a Yadav was shot dead, the Dalit homes smashed and Dalit women raped.

Neeraj Mishra was allegedly picked up a day later by police, accompanied by a gang of Yadav farmers. His headless torso was fished out of a river 24 hours later.

``There is no law except that of the jungle,`` his brother said. He said it was now too dangerous for political parties which draw their support from the lowest and highest ends of Hindu society to campaign openly in the village. ``The Yadavs behave like the mafia here. They do what they want and nobody stops them.``

The nearby Yadav village of Kabirganj, has a concreted road and electricity. Here, there is little regret about last year`s events. ``They started it by firing on our people,`` said Ram Prasad Yadav, 55, a farmer.

Allegations that Yadavs have persecuted other castes is denied by state ministers. ``There have been no complaints of this kind. There may be village enmity, but I assure you that these type of incidents do not exist in Uttar Pradesh,`` said Ashok Bajpai, the minister of agriculture.

Uttar Pradesh, say rival politicians, is now the personal fiefdom of Mulayam Singh Yadav, the chief minister of the state and leader of the Samajwadi (Socialist) party. He is accused of favouring his own community above all others.

A £5m airstrip capable of handling a Boeing 737 is being built in Mr Yadav`s birthplace of Safai, a village in western Uttar Pradesh. Mr Yadav has also been criticised by the parliament for attempting to divert £250,000 of development funds for his birthday celebrations. With a population of 170 million, Uttar Pradesh contains 8% of the world`s poor.

Caste once identified a person`s occupation but in today`s India it is more to do with birth than work. ``In many contexts, caste today is really just about who you can or cannot marry. In that sense it is pretty tribal,`` said Professor Pratap Bhanu Mehta of Delhi`s Centre for Policy Research.

In the cities, caste identities can be concealed merely by altering a surname and disguising an accent. But in some of the country`s biggest states, such as Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, which are predominately rural, caste loyalties stubbornly persist.
In Uttar Pradesh the Samajwadi party rests upon attracting the lower-middle caste vote and the Muslim electorate, a base of 35% of the population. Brahmins and Dalits in Uttar Pradesh make up roughly the same amount of voters.

Last week India`s most prominent Dalit political leader, Mayawati, launched a drive to recruit Brahmins - once seen as her ultimate political foes - to her party. She told a crowd of 30,000 upper caste voters in Uttar Pradesh`s state capital, Lucknow, that she would treat them with respect, and appealed for their votes.

Chandra Bhan Prasad, a Dalit activist who first floated the idea of an alliance with Brahmins, said such coalitions were a sign of political maturity. ``Democracies have historically flourished by defeating the landowning classes. In Uttar Pradesh that now means taking on the Yadavs.``

Ref paulose #71

[....I hope to God these 5 Christian states- Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland – don’t catch the Brahmin disease.]

Kerala has 19% Christian population. (http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Summary%20Christians.pdf) I suppose in your twisted logic, that makes it a Cristian state. Muslims form 24.7% of Kerala. Why don`t you try converting some of those members of The True Faith? I bet you don`t have the b@lls for that.... or, they wouldn`t be in recognizable shape after your first conversion in Malabar.

How about moving to Jammu & Kashmir for your conversion activities? Christians form a pathetic 0.2% of the state`s population.

If the rest of India just pisses, Mizoram, Meghalaya and Nagaland would be flooded. Anyway, those people are busy using drugs so adding Jesus to the mix ain`t doing anything too dangerous to their mental health.... their brains are already fried.

By the way, I keep hearing about Jesus` Second Coming. Does that mean that so far he has had sex only once? Or does that mean he has been steadily f@*king the Christian population for the last 2000 years and there is no let-up until he ejaculates?

If your sister has a child when her husband is away working as a sanitation worker in the Middle East, would that make your nephew the next Jesus? Because, that is the story Mary peddled and you guys bought.

As to Goa, the Goan Christians are highly caste conscious. As my Goan Christian (Brahmin converts... forced, that is, by the Portuguese) friends tell me, they marry either Hindu brahmins or among the Brahmin converts. No need for a low-caste momofuku like you to look for a Goan bride. In India, CASTE RULES! And I, as a Brahmin, RULE OVER YOU!!

Deal with that!

Re: # 81

Zeemax,

Untouchables = agriculturalists => growth rate of 2.7% !!

Thank you for the amusement.

Pmishra #82,

Why would something that someone from Pakistan writes online rattle you this much ?
Also, why would you even begin to compare India as it stands now (and its relatively
clear trajectory), to Pakistan, which is where it is right now ? By its own choice,
Pakistan has remained a deeply insecure state, suffering from a variety of collective neuroses. Let it be.

Anyone have any thoughts on Chidambaram`s new budget ?

#81 zeemax

Wow, your knowledge is soooo deep. So indian farmers all dalits? This is amazing news. Please all the indian newspapers a note about this. None of them know anything about this !
Stupid idol worshippers, dont know anything about their own country.

Also, hindutva people are all brahmins, right? Why not check up on Narendra Modi`s community background. You might get a great surprise.

And there are 15% muslims (why stop there - why not just say there 100% potential muslims :-) in india? Well, facts are a small and irrelevant issue in all of this.

BTW, what opportunities are there for disadavantaged groups in your islamist paradise? oh, I forgot, there are no disadvantaged groups under islam. Everything is perfect and everyone is equal. But somehow all of your leaders are from privileged classes vs. our Lalloo Yadav or Mayavati. Oh, I forgot, that is allahs will.

...further...

I mean .. take the `untouchables` who are agricultarists (now I understand why the growth of agriculture is 2.7%), are 16% of the population. Muslims are another 14-15% so that makes 30-31% of the entire population. How many are the rebels in nagaland, mizoram, tamil nadu, bihar and stuff in 19 states? Perhaps another 10-15%%? So that`s 45% all taken together.

Hindoostan shining ... sure ... I believe it ... with half of the population excluded in this dark and dank morass ...

.....contd#79....

.... and I didn`tgive any advice. I just discovered a fact I had not known before. Now I know what a dank morass hindoostan really is ..

#78 by pmishra2

I was just expressing surprise because I didn`t know. That`s (Dalits) more than Muslims in India.

Excellent, now we have a guy from a society based to islamism and ruled by a military dictator giving indians advice on social issues!

Go ahead, please advise us on secularism and equity. This is after all the main life task of all pakistanis. I am sure it wil be as balanced as that from the christian fanatic.

Dalits are even lower than Shudras. Just checked wiki and these alone are 16% of population.

Amazing .. :~)

#75 tolkinin

Are you ill or have you escaped from a mental asylum?

Just curious.

#74 brahmin
if you keep your door shut and closed then wonder about any guest...

Exclusivity only gets you isolation and lack of company..

Holier than thou makes you stink...

#66 paulose

Thanks, as I expected you are a hate-filled human. This is typical of most religous fanatics, and, why should christian fanatics have a higher standard? Right?

You feel you can shamefully abuse me based on my name and ethnic background, a more open form of racism cannot be imagined. But I would expect nothing less from you. After all you belong to a religion which murdered 6 million jews in less than 10 years. That is a high standard of achievement that Bajrang Dal and LeT can never reach, poor things !

Good luck to you with your propaganda. I realize you need to create disinformation about the sufferings of the poor in india to get funding from the west. Heh, it is a business like any other, after all.

I notice that you avoided answering my question about how much money you are paid per convert. Also, whether you are paid a bonus when the entire family converts? Oh, well, I guess that is a trade secret of your business, er, church.

This site had many nuts of Hindu and Muslim variety. Now we need to welcome a Christain nut Paulose here.

///Christian caste - in India, the social stratification that persists among Christians, based upon caste membership at the time of an individual`s own or of an ancestor`s conversion. Indian Christian society is divided into groups geographically and according to denomination, but the overriding factor is one of caste. Caste groups may dine together and worship together, but, as a rule, they do not intermarry.///

(Encyclopedia Briatnnica).

Casteism is specific to India and Brahmins are not the defenders of caste! All Hindus, Muslims and Christains follow this system. Indians (or Hindus for instance ) dont follow this antiquated system in South-East Asia, South Africa, West Indies, South America or Mauritius.

As for dalits, they too are the defenders of caste! Dalit is a generic term to denote hundreds if not thousands of low-profession social groups. Among dalits they too follow this high-low paradigm within themselves. Now do u blame brahmins or caste?? Therefore u are barking at the wrong tree. As for ur `Christian` states in the north east, Why Christian Kukis and Nagas hunt the heads of each other??

Save urself b4 u save others. If u cant save urself from poison, pl join the elite group on Chowk (u already joind `em) & give us entertainment.

#71 by pau(loser)
They were the 1st to lick the boots of the British and get entrenched as clerks during British rule and then as civil servants after independence and are still dominating the ruling class.

A-hole, you are beneath contempt. Your forefathers converted just so they could avoid being persecuted and they were the ones who converted without resistance so they could spend the rest of their lives licking their British masters` boots.

But next time you meet your father or mother, please call them “chutiya” on my behalf.

They`re smart folks pal, so they don`t deserve such epithets, but your foolish arguments have certainly earned you the title.

I hope to God these 5 Christian states- Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland – don’t catch the Brahmin disease.

I don`t know about the other 4 states, but Kerala certainly seems to have caught some deadly disease, having given birth to your parents, who in turn produced a disgusting specimen like you.

#70 by srk

#69 by harish_hyd

It’s amazing two so-called hindus who are not Brahmins or Dalits are jumping to Brahmin people’s defence.

Brahmins DO NOT need any defending. They are on the top of the Indian food chain. They were the 1st to lick the boots of the British and get entrenched as clerks during British rule and then as civil servants after independence and are still dominating the ruling class. But the worst part is - they are not letting the lower castes come up.

I am surprised that 165 million of your fellow citizens, who happen to at the very bottom of the food chain and are “Dalits” just by accident of birth, DON’T elicit similar outrage from you. Where is your sense of decency PEOPLE ????

Brhamins have been on top of Hindu food-chain for thousands of years and Dalits have been at the bottom for thousands of years!!!!!!!

Your sheer hypocrisy is just mind-boggling.

Do you hindus EVEN have a SENSE of EQUALITY and JUSTICE ????????

SHAME ON YOU HINDU PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have lost all respect for you, hindus.

And another thing, Brahmins created caste-system. So any time any crime is committed on the basis of caste, by any intermediate castes, Brahmins MUST ALWAYS be blamed whether they committed the crime or not. It’s like when a dot-buster/skin-head busts the head of a hindu girl for wearing a bindi. The prosecutors don’t just charge the skin-head, they also charge the KKK guy who influenced the skin-head. And I thought they follow British Common Law in India. Duh !

Also, Mr. “harish_hyd” I don’t know what “chutiya” means. But next time you meet your father or mother, please call them “chutiya” on my behalf. OK.

I am so disgusted with you hindu people, I don’t have words to express it.

No wonder India (excepting Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland) is worse SHIT-HOLE than Africa. I hope to God these 5 Christian states- Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland – don’t catch the Brahmin disease.

When you hindus go abroad don’t be bringing your disease over. I just shudder thinking about it.

Got to get of here before I infected with what you have.

This time I am leaving this site for good.

Mr Paulose, How in the world you assumed i am a Brahmin. I don`t give a damn if u convert someone to your faith. It doesn`t bother me if someone changes from one dogma to another.

I am sick of all the nonsense dished out by religious nuts like you and your counter parts in Hindu and Muslim religions. Half the world problems are created and sustained by religious folks.

#68 by paulose

But I have done enough missionary work in India, done lot of anthropological research and am slowly beginning to understand the racist psyche of you Brahmins.

What a chutiya! How do you know SRK is a Brahmin? He could as well be a Dalit, don`t you think? That`s the problem with you missionary chutiyas, everyone questioning you is a bloody Brahmin and everyone arguing with a Brahmin is a Dalit, whose soul is waiting to be saved. Life is more than just black and white, ain`t it?

#67 by srk

Mr. SRK, I am not Catholic but a Pentecostal/Vendicose. But I stand by my Christian Brothers in times of crisis like the Catholic Clergy Child molestation scandal, unlike you Brahmins. And I have converted quite a few catholics to be good Pentecostals.

What I fail to understand is this -You Brahmins would not let a Dalit or Tribal into your house or your temple and then you will rape his wife and daughter and you still want him to remain a Hindu? Why? If you don’t like Dalits why can’t you just let him be a Christian? Why make laws barring conversion?

I have lived abroad all my life and the Indian caste system and discrimination really boggles my mind. It is worse than trans-atlantic slavery or Nazi-genocide or anything else I can think of. But I have done enough missionary work in India, done lot of anthropological research and am slowly beginning to understand the racist psyche of you Brahmins.

Anyway, don’t have time to take cheap potshots at you when so many poor, discriminated people need to be saved.

I know you Brahmins love the misery of Dalits. So READ AND ENJOY THE ARTICLE BELOW AND TEACH YOUR KIDS YOUR RACIST BRAHMIN BELIEFS.

Hope I have made your day. Bye. Bye.


http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/13/india15303.htm

India: ‘Hidden Apartheid’ of Discrimination Against Dalits

Government Fails to End Caste-Based Segregation and Attacks

(New York, February 13, 2007) – India has systematically failed to uphold its international legal obligations to ensure the fundamental human rights of Dalits, or so-called untouchables, despite laws and policies against caste discrimination, the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice and Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today. More than 165 million Dalits in India are condemned to a lifetime of abuse simply because of their caste.

The 113-page report, “Hidden Apartheid: Caste Discrimination against India’s ‘Untouchables’,” was produced as a “shadow report” in response to India’s submission to the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD), which monitors implementation of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD). The committee will review India’s compliance with the convention during hearings in Geneva on February 23 and 26.

On December 27, 2006 Manmohan Singh became the first sitting Indian prime minister to openly acknowledge the parallel between the practice of “untouchability” and the crime of apartheid. Singh described “untouchability” as a “blot on humanity” adding that “even after 60 years of constitutional and legal protection and state support, there is still social discrimination against Dalits in many parts of our country.”

“Prime Minister Singh has rightly compared ‘untouchability’ to apartheid, and he should now turn his words into action to protect the rights of Dalits,” said Professor Smita Narula, faculty director of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice (CHRGJ) at New York University School of Law, and co-author of the report. “The Indian government can no longer deny its collusion in maintaining a system of entrenched social and economic segregation.”

Dalits endure segregation in housing, schools, and access to public services. They are denied access to land, forced to work in degrading conditions, and routinely abused at the hands of the police and upper-caste community members who enjoy the state’s protection. Entrenched discrimination violates Dalits’ rights to education, health, housing, property, freedom of religion, free choice of employment, and equal treatment before the law. Dalits also suffer routine violations of their right to life and security of person through state-sponsored or -sanctioned acts of violence, including torture.

Caste-motivated killings, rapes, and other abuses are a daily occurrence in India. Between 2001 and 2002 close to 58,000 cases were registered under the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act – legislation that criminalizes particularly egregious abuses against Dalits and tribal community members. A 2005 government report states that a crime is committed against a Dalit every 20 minutes. Though staggering, these figures represent only a fraction of actual incidents since many Dalits do not register cases for fear of retaliation by the police and upper-caste individuals.

Both state and private actors commit these crimes with impunity. Even on the relatively rare occasions on which a case reaches court, the most likely outcome is acquittal. Indian government reports reveal that between 1999 and 2001 as many as 89 percent of trials involving offenses against Dalits resulted in acquittals.

A resolution passed by the European Parliament on February 1, 2007 found India’s efforts to enforce laws protecting Dalits to be “grossly inadequate,” adding that “atrocities, untouchability, illiteracy, [and] inequality of opportunity, continue to blight the lives of India’s Dalits.” The resolution called on the Indian government to engage with CERD in its efforts to end caste-based discrimination. Dalit leaders welcomed the resolution, but Indian officials dismissed it as lacking in “balance and perspective.”

“International scrutiny is growing and with it the condemnation of abuses resulting from the caste system and the government’s failure to protect Dalits,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “India needs to mobilize the entire government and make good on its paper commitments to end caste abuses. Otherwise, it risks pariah status for its homegrown brand of apartheid.”

Attempts by Dalits to defy the caste order, to demand their rights, or to lay claim to land that is legally theirs are consistently met with economic boycotts or retaliatory violence. For example, in Punjab on January 5, 2006 Dalit laborer and activist Bant Singh, seeking the prosecution of the people who gang-raped his daughter, was beaten so severely that both arms and one leg had to be amputated. On September 26, 2006 in Kherlanji village, Maharashtra, a Dalit family was killed by an upper-caste mob, after the mother and daughter were stripped, beaten and paraded through the village and the two brothers were brutally beaten. They were attacked because they refused to let upper-caste farmers take their land. After widespread protests at the police’s failure to arrest the perpetrators, some of those accused in the killing were finally arrested and police and medical officers who had failed to do their jobs were suspended from duty.

Exploitation of labor is at the very heart of the caste system. Dalits are forced to perform tasks deemed too “polluting” or degrading for non-Dalits to carry out. According to unofficial estimates, more than 1.3 million Dalits – mostly women – are employed as manual scavengers to clear human waste from dry pit latrines. In several cities, Dalits are lowered into manholes without protection to clear sewage blockages, resulting in more than 100 deaths each year from inhalation of toxic gases or from drowning in excrement. Dalits comprise the majority of agricultural, bonded, and child laborers in the country. Many survive on less than US$1 per day.

In January 2007 the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women concluded that Dalit women in India suffer from “deeply rooted structural discrimination.” “Hidden Apartheid” records the plight of Dalit women and the multiple forms of discrimination they face. Abuses documented in the report include sexual abuse by the police and upper-caste men, forced prostitution, and discrimination in employment and the payment of wages.

Dalit children face consistent hurdles in access to education. They are made to sit in the back of classrooms and endure verbal and physical harassment from teachers and students. The effect of such abuses is borne out by the low literacy and high drop-out rates for Dalits.

The Center for Human Rights and Global Justice and Human Rights Watch call on CERD to scrutinize the gap between India’s human rights commitments and the daily reality faced by Dalits. In particular, CERD should request that the Indian government:
• Identify measures taken to ensure appropriate reforms to eliminate police abuses against Dalits and other marginalized communities;

• Provide concrete plans to implement laws and government policies to protect Dalits, and Dalit women in particular, from physical and sexual violence;

• Identify steps taken to eradicate caste-based segregation in residential areas and schools, and in access to public services; and,

• Outline plans to ensure the effective eradication of exploitative labor arrangements and effective implementation of rehabilitation schemes for Dalit bonded and child laborers, manual scavengers, and for Dalit women forced into prostitution.
“International outrage over the treatment of Dalits is matched by growing national discontent,” Smita Narula said. “India can’t ignore the voices of 165 million citizens.”

“Hidden Apartheid” is based on in-depth investigations by CHRGJ, Human Rights Watch, Indian non-governmental organizations, and media sources. The pervasiveness of abuses against Dalits is corroborated by the reports of Indian governmental agencies, including the National Human Rights Commission, and the National Commission on Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. These and other sources were compiled, investigated, and analyzed under international law by NYU School of Law’s International Human Rights Clinic.

Background

The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is a body of independent experts responsible for monitoring states’ compliance with the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), ratified by India in 1968. It guarantees rights of non-discrimination on the basis of “race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin.” In 1996 CERD concluded that the plight of Dalits falls squarely under the prohibition of descent-based discrimination. As a state party to ICERD, India is obligated to submit periodic reports detailing its implementation of rights guaranteed under the convention. During the review session CERD examines these reports and engages in constructive dialogue with the state party, addressing its concerns and offering recommendations. CERD uses supplementary information contained in non-governmental organization “shadow reports” to evaluate states’ reports. India’s report to CERD, eight years overdue, covers compliance with the convention from 1996 to 2006 yet does not contain a single mention of abuses against Dalits – abuses that India’s own governmental agencies have documented and verified.

#66
We already have Hindu and Muslim nut jobs on chowk. Now that a Christian nut has joined the charade, we have Trinity of nuts. What a fun.

BTW, what alternate religion do u suggest for all the catholic boys molested by the Catholic priests all over the world :)

64 by pmishra2

Saw your post addressed to me and was wondering how you could help us Christians spread the Word

All that the Brahmins of UP and Bihar like Mishra, Pande, Jha, Chaturvedi have to do - is rape poor, young tribals from Jharkhand, like you have always done for the past thousands of years; and treat UP/Bihar dalits like shit; and we will keep Converting them to Christianity.

Mr. Mishra, you Brahmins are working so hard for us already; we really can’t ask for anything more; can we?

Thanks Anyway.

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=23212

Catholic prelate joins call for justice for rape victims

2/28/2007

UCANews

RANCHI, India (UCAN) – Thousands of people including the Catholic Church leader in the eastern Indian state of Jharkhand have demanded exemplary punishment for men who raped 13 tribal women.

The unmarried tribal women aged 16-20 reportedly were assaulted on Feb. 21 in Ballia district of Uttar Pradesh state, where they worked in a brick kiln.

Local news reports said that around midnight, at least 18 armed men entered a makeshift house for women workers. The men molested and raped migrant workers from Jharkhand`s Ranchi and neighboring Lohardaga districts.

As news of the incident spread, tribal organizations in Jharkhand called for protests. Thousands of tribal people responded, shouting slogans as they marched on Feb. 24 through Ranchi, the state capital, 1,160 kilometers (about 720 miles) southeast of New Delhi, and Lohardaga town.

Cardinal Telesphore Placidus Toppo of Ranchi said in a Feb. 23 press release that perpetrators of rape should be given exemplary punishment and victims should receive ``justice at all cost.``

The incident proves that women of ``dalit and tribal societies are not safe in the country even in the 21st century,`` Asia`s first tribal cardinal wrote. It ``also proves how the so-called higher-caste people see`` people belonging to dalit and tribal communities, he said.
“Dalit” is a Sanskrit term meaning ``trampled upon`` and is used to denote people at the bottom of the traditional Indian caste system who formerly were called ``untouchable.``

Cardinal Toppo described rape as ``the most heinous crime against humanity`` in comments for UCA News. ``Whether the victim is tribal or non-tribal, one could not find enough words to condemn whoever commits it.``

The protesters demanded that the Jharkhand state government ``act immediately`` to ensure that the culprits and kiln owners are charged and prosecuted. They also demanded a federal inquiry and compensation to the victims.

``Our poor sisters go to work in the brick kilns of Uttar Pradesh to support their families, not to lose their modesty,`` Neelam Baxla, a Catholic college girl who led the protest rally in Ranchi, told UCA News.

Some young people at the protest rally held their state government responsible for the situation in which poverty compels tribal women to migrate outside the state to make a living.


Jharkhand was carved out of Bihar state in 2000 for the declared purpose of augmenting tribal advancement, but its leaders have ``failed to guarantee`` adequate employment opportunities for tribal people, charged Michael Ekka, a college student.

Dayamani Barla, a tribal women leader, went further in asserting that ``the governments did nothing for the betterment of tribal people`` in the six years since the state`s formation and ``only exploited them further.``

According to Barla, hundreds of migrant tribal women ``eke out a livelihood`` in several Indian states, facing physical and sexual violence. ``So many tribal girls who have gone out for work, are missing too,`` she told UCA News.

Cardinal Toppo agrees that the state has not done enough ``to provide social security and eradicate poverty of our villages, which forces people to migrate as laborers.`` The kiln rape case puts the situation in stark relief, he said. ``This incident is an eye opener for the people and government of Jharkhand. We have to work for the poor joining hands.``

Reacting to the demands of various political parties as well as church and social organizations, Jharkhand Chief Minister Madhu Koda said he has asked officials to provide a detailed report about the incident.

Koda told UCA News on Feb. 24 that the crime would be probed with the help of the Uttar Pradesh government ``to ensure safe return of the girls and maximum punishment to the culprits.``

# 52 harimau/ re # 59

just checked my email; nothing from you; need info pronto; help will be greatly appreciated; thanks

#59 paulose

This is much more interesting than Aparna-ji vapid meanderings. How much are you paid per convert? What is the business model? Is it per-hindu? Or does have to do with caste and region? Or are there special bonuses for targetted people? Also do you have a quota? Like for example, if you conver 5 people before end of year, you get payment for each person PLUS some special thank-you money?

Can I also join your business? Maybe you can subcontract me some conversion money to me as well ! I have a friend who I think can be fooled into believing the stuff you are peddling.

#62 by mystical_facet on February 28, 2007 11:10am PT

The cost of building a 8 lane highway is not too greater than the cost of a 4/6 lane highway. Going by your logic, what`s the need for mobiles phones when there are poor fishermen?

Read up

#56...
sure highways are very important but really do they really need an eight lane highway for the farmers? could they have built a smaller one and utilized the remaining resources elsewhere? possibly to feed the malnutritioned children..who are the future of the country?

#57 by Shah2 on February 27, 2007 1:11pm PT


r u Kannadinga btw


nope...

# 59 Paulose

To people on this thread, please ignore my off-the-subject posting. It was just meant for Harimau Iyer. Just wanted him to email me some info. Sorry to interrupt this blog thread

#52 by harimau iyer

Totally forgot about this website, but had the email with login/pwd so was able to come back.

Anyhoo, you may have forgotten the friendly banter we had around Christmas time last year, about Kerala and Nairs. And you had mentioned something about Menon having Iyer blood or Iyer father or something like that. Can you provide me some more info about that? Like some web links, etc?

We are doing mission work with American-born Malayali Hindus, mostly Nairs, who are under-grads in US Universities and mostly confused and are trying to save them through Christianity. And I am so close to saving this Menon kid. Just need a bit info to push things over you know.

I know as an Iyer you have deep hatred for Nairs (don’t know reason for that but if you can elaborate that also, that will be great) and you would’nt mind sharing that info.

Also any info about Nair-Nambudiri Sambandham is also appreciated.

Just send an email to - neil_thomas@myfastmail.com

Just FYI –If you did not know already, Iyers have always been one of the greatest resource for missionaries in South India.

The Book – “Castes and Tribes of Southern India” written by missionary anthropologist -Edgar Thurston and an Iyer Brahmin guy -K. Rangachari, has been phenomenally helpful in converting millions of low-caste South Indian Hindus to Christianity.

As an Anthropology student I just read some of Edgar Thurston notes and it mentions how Rangachari was so eager to please him and help classify the dirty low castes properly which provided a great resource for systematic missionary work. Rangachari’s hatred for the low castes was greatly chanelled by Edgar Thurston to get some inside info on South Indian Hindu Society which greatly helped all missionaries who followed him.

In the same way I want to channel your hatred for Nairs for missionary work among Nairs. You hate Nairs and I would love to convert them to Christianity and it’s a win-win situation for both of us. You will be happy to know that I have some Nair relatives thru marriage and they are much better Christians than folks who were Christians at birth.

Thanks for all the help.

#50Harimau
Foreign Direct Investment and Special Economic Zones cannot be free for all within a sovereign state .....Interest of citizens within the boundries of country with residency 12 Months a year is status much above any investment intrusion by foreigners....

#56 Arjun
agreed high ways and bridges necessary for infrastucture which is real development compared to stocks and MNC....r u Kannadinga btw...

#55 by mystical_facet on February 27, 2007 11:30am PT


Is that why they are building a massive highway there


a massive highway linking bangalore and mysore helps all the farmers who live along that route get their produce to the market and helps them get a better price..

has the comrade considered that?

Has the Indian government forgotten those 260 mn people who live on $1 a day? And are they just focused to get as many foreign firms into ..lets say..Bangalore..as possible? Is that why they are building a massive highway there...could that money not have been put to better use?

Overall a reasonable article however the quagmire that India is stuck in at the moment is no different from what most developing countries/TWC (third world countries) face.

This growth vs development dilemma was very finely described by Ardeshir Cowasjee in a Pakistan daily.. quote unquote

The two concepts are not synonymous and all growth must be measured against the collateral damage accrued thereby. Even otherwise, growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell.

Re: # 42
I don`t miss those days either...you still have the odd uncle-type telling you simple living is good. In my experience the only people who talk about simple living and high thinking are those who know nothing about high thinking or the good life, and it is just hypocrisy to pretend otherwise. I remember looking greedily at pictures of dolls in comics and wishing my parents had never returned from the UK, and the electricity being switched off at our private school to save the diocese money. I`m glad those days are over.

Ref ahmedmadani # 51

[What UKP stands for ?]

Ulloo ka patha.

Re: # 50

What UKP stands for ?
This my hypotheical question and have no answer known to me.
All subcontinetal companies P/E ratios are extremely high compared to major companies on world scene.(Who are in same business)
Are these PEs extreme high as people are not allowed to buy stocks of foreign companies.( or is it conspiracy by elits to keep ppor in proper places while elites go to foreign and keep poor people depressed example Bhuttos,Musharraf ,nehru, Gandhis etc), so they are forced to buy high PE local stocks. Is it fare to allow local capital to pray on people with no choices?
Wonder is it due national capital groups want that way or just traditionally still govts are afraid and still fighting ``East India Company `` syndrome . As a part of liberal reforms can people of subcontinent should have right to buy international and foreign companies. Companies paying dividends will be giving foreign dollars.
Will this lead to improvement working of local companies and better product and services.
I wonder some Indian companies are ripping benefits by buying foreign companies and getting access to funds with less interest rates are real interest rests in Pakistan and India are very high. Then they can avoid local capital markets and raise capital formation and loans at much less rates and will this help them in producing cheaper products and services ?.
Technoligy has helped to democratise capital markets, mutual funds make possible for average person have stake in equity markets. Its is ironic American inovations have helped (microsoft etc) to make available economic data available to to any person which was not available even for richest bankers just 30 to 40 years ago. Many average person have so much information have lead to efficient equity markets.
What opinion of many of you regarding freedom to average person to have free access to buying foreign stocks.
Good day everybody

Ref tolkinin #49

[Besides if stocka go up and Mittal owns Steel factory in Holland its god moral booster to browns in U.K. but Mass of Indians in India Care two hoots for that ..]

Actually, the brown sahebs in India used to care a whole lot about it. The UKPs made sure that no Indian industrialist ever invested in a foreign country... or in India for that matter. The only one allowed to invest was the Indian government. So the UKPs did give more than two hoots about these issues.

#34 HIND SIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20 iTS VERY easy to cricize somthing past 40 years or even earlier when things have played out....
The same rhetoric can be applied

what has been the growth compared to other counties paticularly asian Japan China even Korea...
Indians have not invented but only reflect the changes that has resulted from inventions and techniology just transfered in...

Besides if stocka go up and Mittal owns Steel factory in Holland its god moral booster to browns in U.K. but Mass of Indians in India Care two hoots for that ..

Re: # 45

Like I said - political-social conditions of india and mexico are very different... Trade, export to US ALONE will NOT automatically make a countries economy - that goes without saying...

Anycase - mexico still has better economy than most other latin america countries... I think mexico is already part of OECD with $10K+ per capita income... The major problem is the rich-poor gap... mexico has to fix that... So - if india reaches mexican numbers in economy with better distribution of wealth, that would be an achievement in itself...

IMF types [and others] talk about india because indian growth path is clear, the necessary resources are there, indians have proven their abilities in various ways even though many other things needs to be done... that`s the reason why india is talked about... BRIC is the term used these days - Brazil, Russia, India, China... all of them huge problems but the forecast is that they can overcome all that to become much better...

The commie argument is this...

GDP has grown xx%. Exports have shot up yy%. Per capita income is up zz%. So WHAT????!!! Babies are dying at xx rate. Clean water goes to only yy%. Access to education, health, blah blah blah only to zz%.
conveniently ignoring the fact that
these statistics were much the same even in the good old days of Nehruvian socialism.

It is obvious to all but the Brain-Dead that economic growth is coming at the expense of the political clout of the Commie momofukus.

#37/#41 by mohar11

err .. Mexico has 12.5 billion bbl of proven oil reserves and exports almost 2 million bbl per day ... i.e same as Iraq :~)

..so I don`t think the comparison fits....

The comparison is perfect, though scale is much larger in India`s case and the prognosis is much worse. Mexico has a free economy with free trade agreements with 40 countries; India is heading in the same direction. Mexico has 90% of trade with USA alone; Indians are dying for the same. Mexico despite its oil, manpower export and trade with USA is largely poor; India despite its service exports, manpower export to USA is desperately poor. The only difference is in debt. But isn`t Harimau saying its a no-brainer to borrow and build infrastructure ?

Take off the rosy shades ... guys ... and don`t believe what these IMF types say at cocktail parties. :~)

Re: # 36
I don`t think money alone makes one happy, but the absolute lack of money does make one unhappy. Wealth on the other hand does not make one unhappy in itself. And that`s all I have to say to you, Fosa.

Ref mohar11 #41

[well, every country pumps some amount oil for themselves, even india does... but only a few export oil... that`s what I was pointing to...


From http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/oil_exports_2005_0.html

Rank Country Oil Exports in Barrels/Day
1 Saudi Arabia 7,920,000
2 Russia 6,110,000
3 European Union 5,322,000
4 Norway 3,466,000
5 United Arab Emirates 2,500,000
5 Iran 2,500,000
6 Venezuela 2,100,000
7 Kuwait 1,970,000
8 Mexico 1,863,000
9 United Kingdom 1,498,000
10 Iraq 1,490,000
11 Netherlands 1,418,000
12 Canada 1,370,000

[...mexico, as far as I know, is not part of OPEC...]

Same thing holds good for Norway. Doesn`t mean Norway doesn`t export oil. And Mexico exports more oil than Indonesia, an OPEC member.

I think it`s fairly universally accepted that the Nehruvian era was a massive dragdown for India which severly inhibited our performance on the world stage. Bar some commies and ``intellectuals`` everyone agrees that the 40 odd years of ``socialism`` was a dark, depressing period where we were denied access to a quality lifestyle in the name of some half-assed concept of patriotism.

All that phase did was produce a decent middle class with aspirations but no way to realise them for the most part. Most of the educated middle class that lived out their working adulthood in the 70s and 80s (my parents` generation) had no way to realise their dreams and managed to do it almost entirely through their children. Which meant ensuring there was enough food on the table and a constant exhirtation to study hard and do well in life. If those children went on to a good engineering or medical college and established themselves in life either at home or more likely in the US, those parents who were denied their own opportunities had a big role to play in that.

Thanks Mom and Dad. You`re retired now, but it must be giving you SUCH a kick to see those beautiful malls and multiplexes and 8-lane highways and mushrooming affordable airlines and quality apparel and perfurmery and this-calendar-year Japanese and American cars and all those things that once were just things you heard about from lucky relatives and bosses who were able to go ``abroad`` (that too on a too-measly daily allowance).

Let the commies whine all they will. We shall enjoy, guilt-free.

Re: # 40

well, every country pumps some amount oil for themselves, even india does... but only a few export oil... that`s what I was pointing to... mexico, as far as I know, is not part of OPEC...

Ref mohar11 #37

[Anycase - venezuela and mexico have very different political-social scenarios... the former has oil, the later doesn`t... ]

Try telling that to PEMEX, Mexico`s National oil company.

Mexico is also drilling and pumping oil out of Gulf of Mexico. Much before that, Veara Cruz and surrounding areas had/have on-shore oil.

hahaha...this is sure to set the collective asses of the welfare queen pakis on fire..

India Plays Increasing Role in Intel R&D

About half of the work on Intel’s recently announced ``teraflop research chip`` was done in India, highlighting the country’s growing importance to Intel’s research and development efforts.

Researchers in Oregon and Bangalore designed the programmable chip, which crams 80 cores onto a fingernail-size device that draws just 62 watts of power, said Vasantha Erraguntla, engineering manager at the India research center. Erraguntla led the 20-person design team in Bangalore that worked on the logic, circuit and physical design of the chip.

Intel provided some details about the research processor earlier this month, saying it can perform more than a trillion floating point operations per second, or a teraflop. It doesn’t plan to bring that particular device to market, but the researchers in Bangalore are now looking at the implications of putting such a powerful processor into a system.

The chip has spurred research projects in the areas of cooling, high-bandwidth interconnects and power management, said Vittal Kini, director of the research center, which was set up in 2004 and is the latest addition to the India development center in Bangalore.

Besides working on the teraflop chip, some 50 researchers there are working on other areas of circuit and systems research.

The development center is fast emerging as a key research and design location for Intel. The company has about 3,000 staff in India, of which close to 2,900 are in R&D.

Indian engineers work on the design of chips and chipsets, reference designs, system software and packaging technologies, said Sandeep Shah, director of the mobility group at the India development center. Indian engineers have full ownership of the development of key Intel chips for the server and mobile market, he added.

-John Ribeiro, IDG News Service (Bangalore Bureau)

#35 by zeemax on February 24, 2007 8:57pm PT

India will be America`s mexico and Pakiland will be India`s Guatemala.

zee
[...`One Country Two Systems` of Deng..]

I thought that referred to re-unification of taiwan...

venezuela is hardly a model for anybody for anything... Chavez is a jacka$$ and he is going ruin the country even worse than what is now...

Anycase - venezuela and mexico have very different political-social scenarios... the former has oil, the later doesn`t... both hardly have any educated class middle class that can drive the economy independent of the govt... india`s political-social scenario is very different from these nations... so I don`t think the comparison fits....

#30 ``who says it does``.....

the cause of higher suicide was
``Thakore alleged that moneylenders who unabashedly got gullible people in their clutches by charging a exorbitantly high rates of interest were mainly responsible for pushing people to suicide. ``

Why people wanted things more than they can afford..

Just one incident i read in recent trip to India with all its glitz people were jumping off there high rise apartment complexes some crores of rupees in mortgaes for just one such family...
Money is highly central to Gujjratis ....Harshad Mehta, Ketan parekh the stocks manipulator are its heroes including Ambani ( who is nothing but American Enrons puppet)

You contend Australia has same suicide rates and i say prolly USA also does but all these are highly mortgaged societies are on borrowed happiness which comes and goes easily

mohar11,

80% of chinese still live in villages ... and they have no ``social security net``

Are you kidding? 80% of China is still communist with guaranteed jobs, minimum wages and housing. Remember `One Country Two Systems` of Deng?

Take Venezuela where, after actually contracting by 8-9% in 2002 and 2003, growth (non-petroleum) was 18% in 2004, 11% in 2005 and 9% in 2006. Real income in the poorest sectors of society grew by 33% in 2004 alone. And it was all domestically led through Government spending ... socialist style, coupled with imposition of currency/capital controls. It all depends on whether you know how to do it, or not.

Best India can hope to become is a Mexico through relying on USA type policies. It will never become a Venezuela.

Re: # 30
Who said it did?

The other day - I was at a company party and was talking to the husband of a colleague - he works for IMF in Washington, DC... The guy was waxing lyrical about india, how we are doing so great, it seems we are ``envy`` for others... I was restrained because I know how much problems we have, but this guy was simply unstoppable...

The point is - a solid foundation has been built... time to move it to the next step... no whining, no bullsh!t, no distraction... only hard work...

Come to think of it: we just had 3 years of high growth rate... and the perennial whiners are already out in the open beating their chests... I mean, what do you even say to these losers?...

I mean - these professional whiners have been crying copious tears about the poor all the time... and yet, poor have still remained poor... where as, just a few years of restricted reform has already lifted millions out of the poverty, created an ever expanding middle class, has created world class companies, generated wealth never seen before, has boosted forex reserves to its maximum, taken the country out of perennial debt, in fact - has made the country a donor of assistance to others...

Moreover, it has given the confidence to people that they can do it, they can make this country work... people are out there working hard, working for their future... Instead of running around with begging bowl as the whiners used to do during golden days of their commie rule, the country is actually out there standing tall and making money... making waves, making people take notice, making things happen...

Just a few years of stop-and-go reform [which has been opposed tooth and nail by the very same professional whiners] has already shown the results in flying colors and yet, the whining never stops... the stupidity never goes way... these people never learn, never reflect...

Un-f***ing-believable!!!

Re: # 29
[...China solved the basics with harsh communism...]

China has solved ``basics``? there are 84000 riots last year involving the desperate rural chinese.... The cities in china accomdate around 20% of the population, 80% of chinese still live in villages, who need ``visas`` to enter their own cities and they have no ``social security net`` whatsover... this is not to denigrate the chinese in any way - but to point out the reality of any developing economy with very large number of people...

See - the problem with you and tolknin is that you guys want instant gratification... since we are comparing with chinese, here is what their man said and I paraphrase: ``everyone in china will get rich, only some people will get there earlier than others``...

You want to see 40 years of bad economics to be erased overnight... well, that`s a noble thought but it doesn`t work that way, you can`t erase bad results of 40 years of stupidity that quickly...

we just have 15 years of reform, which has progressed in fits and starts, with a lot of opposition and whining from commies..... unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of ``harsh communism`` to deal with our commies, that would have been sweetly ironical... Of that 15 years, only last 3 years we have seen the sustained high growth... so this is just the beginning... to compare with china, they have this rate of growth sustained for last 20 years...

India needs to sustain this growth rate over next decades and we still need to get rid of the commies, losers and whiners..... it`s long march and we have taken first few steps...So just hold on to your panti!es...

the ``model`` of development is very simple... generate wealth and invest in infrastructure, social and physical... many countries have done so... it ain`t rocket science...

#26 Nb..

Australia is also prosperous country ..if Gujrat is sited as properous among indian states it does not automatically signifies fullfilled state..
there are somthing that money cannot buy

#28 by harimau

Ok Harimau .. I don`t want to beat up on India at all, but 30,000 girl children sold into slavery is a very large figure.

There are (were) only two countries in the world with similar characteristics of a billion plus people, a huge landmass and equally large problems, crushing poverty, widespread social ills, inhuman conditions for the majority, and corrupt administrations. One was China, the other is India. China solved the basics with harsh communism and followed it up with capitalism. India rejected a mild fabian socialism and wants to jump to american style capitalism without even a social security net and develop.

Which parallel is India following? Or is it trying to invent one? How does it expect to succeed? Is it through trickle-down of 1-2 million people towards 998 million (or thereabout)?

Ref zeemax #27

[#23 by harimau

We now have glitzy malls and super apartment complexes in Bombay because we are not willing to put up with crapola socialist/communist policies.

Ahem ... now aren`t we a bit hasty here ... ]

Nope.

It is not my children who are being sold into prostitution. It is the children of those who have large families they cannot/will not take responsibility for.

More people have been pulled out of $1/day existence by the current economic policies than by the policies of double-speaking Commie momofukus who worked for Nehru.

#23 by harimau

We now have glitzy malls and super apartment complexes in Bombay because we are not willing to put up with crapola socialist/communist policies.

Ahem ... now aren`t we a bit hasty here ...

Your second largest city is named a `dark and dank morass` in this documentary aired yesterday:

LAND OF MISSING CHILDREN (Read underage sex slaves):

``An estimated 30,000 girls are trafficked into the sex industry every year. Some are sold by poverty-stricken parents hoping that their children will find employment as domestic servants. Others are simply snatched off the streets, drugged, raped and sold to brothel madams ``.

Those are the words of reporter Sam Kiley, who accompanied reluctant police on a raid where girls are rescued from a dank attic only to disappear again into the night. Land of Missing Children is set in northeastern india-one hub of the international sex trade. Many young girls end up in Kolkata (Calcutta) and nearby towns.

Re: # 25
Percentage wise, that`s not a lot, though it does sound callous to say this. Australia has a population of about 20 million, and had about 2100 suicides in 2004.
If Gujarat has a population of 55 million, 5288 suicides might be expected with the same trends.
This does not take away from the fact that even one suicide is a tragedy that affects dozens of people. Let us not use this tragedy to attack the government.

#19 Harimou

``These idiots are dinosaurs doomed to extinction. They will all starve to death or, if they have the brains, commit suicide.

Do Punjab, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu, etc., show 2.7% growth



Over 5,200 suicides in one year


GANDHINAGAR: Here`s a shocking piece of statistic an average 14 people killed themselves in Gujarat everyday last year!

An alarming 5,288 people committed suicide between January 1, 2006, and January 31, 2007, in Gujarat, according to figures released by the state government in the budget session of the Assembly on Friday.

What`s more, there were 20 incidents where victims committed suicide after killing other members of their families. Men, it turns out, were more desperate to take the extreme step as compared to women.

Of the 5,288 people who committed suicide, only 526 were women, with maximum 50 women killing themselves in Ahmedabad. Nineteen women committed suicide in Rajkot city, 15 in Surat and 12 in Vadodara.

Congress MLA from Dehgam Jagdish Thakore raised the question in the state Assembly as to how many cases of individual and `family suicides` were registered in the state in the past one year.

Thakore alleged that moneylenders who unabashedly got gullible people in their clutches by charging a exorbitantly high rates of interest were mainly responsible for pushing people to suicide.

Meanwhile, experts said that the high number of people committing suicide despite the state`s booming economy and steady stock market could be attributed to greater aspirations and expectations of people.

``Due to rapid urbanisation and easy access to loans, a lot of people are falling prey to debts. Moreover, in personal relationships too, tolerance levels have reduced,`` said psychiatrist Hansal Bhachech.

user posts | profile