Teaching Science Badly – and Well
Pervez Hoodbhoy March 1, 2007
#244 Posted by echoboom on July 24, 2007 7:39:12 pm
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along into the precipice.
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Ahmed
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Nos
voleurs!
Il y a des
problèmes extrêmes où nous nous
debattons et que nous avons trop tardé à
regarder en face. A la différence des pays
occidentaux, nos "pays musulmans" ne connaissent que peu de
hold-up de banques.
C'est que les
voleurs d'envergure savent qu'aujourd'hui, dans nos pays, la
source d'enrichissement la plus sûre, la plus rapide,
la seule à vrai dire, est le pouvoir.
À titre
d´exemple : le systeme féodal (makhzen) - qui
n´a rien à voir avec l´Islam - que Hassan
II a pérpétué anachroniquement au Maroc
en plein XXe siècle - fait de la corruption
généralisée un systhème de
gouvernement. Le régime de Hassan II constitue, pour
notre pays, pour notre peuple et pour notre avenir un danger
mortel réel.
Face à ce
danger et à son défi, il n y a, devant nous,
qu´une seule alternative et une seule réponse:
une révolution islamique radicale,
éclairée, intelligente, tolérante et
liberatrce! En Islam, la liberté est
la
régle.
L´interdit est l´exception.
Il s´impose,
AUJOURD´HUI,
urgence et nécessité vitale de créer un
FRONT
ISLAMIQUE UNI POUR
LA LIBERATION
DU MAROC.
Les
grands ne sont grands que parce que nous sommes
à genoux. Levons-nous!
Ahmed
Rami
"
War is
ugly, but to be dominated is still uglier
"
Imam
Khomeini
"The
Old and New Testaments had collided. The rabbi's dad had
taught him about an eye for an eye - or 20 homes for a
stone, in this case - whereas my dad had taught me about
turning the other cheek. Judaism and Christianity had
collided. So was it any surprise that Judaism and Islam were
colliding"
R.
Fisk, The Independent, 29 août
2001
"Everyone
has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this
right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference
and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas
through any media and regardless of
frontiers."
Article
19. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December
10, 1948,
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#243 Posted by khuram on March 20, 2007 10:36:58 am
[...] ... ``II. Second, good teachers must emphasize learning rather than teaching. The two are different. Learning is a process that progresses from the concrete to the abstract as cognitive abilities slowly improve. But students first need to get acquainted with the things around them such as devices, organisms, materials, shapes, and numbers. They must observe them, collect them, handle them, describe them, become puzzled by them, ask questions about them, argue about them, and then to try to find answers to their questions. Abstractions develop after these experiences, not before.`` ... [...]
Sir, in my assessment, science study is really boring because above mentioned things are really missing in our science education.
Perhaps the reason for it lies in an internal contradiction of science itself. Which is following:
[...] ... There cannot be airy-fairy discussions of things. Science refuses to offer an opinion on things that are unobservable, or whose existence is impossible to verify even in principle. What you cannot see may still actually be there, but science is going to be mum about it. It’s as simple as that. ... [...]
My opinion is that Galileo was able to perform experiments on projectile motion and falling objects of different weights mainly because the first phase of this process i.e. ``airy-fairy`` discussions about characteristics of falling objects already had taken place in ancient Greece. Galileo`s achievement was only that he tried to test those ``airy-fairy`` ideas using experimental techniques. My own ``airy-fairy`` idea is that in order to do any experiment whatsoever, at first we need an ``idea`` that may need confirmation, clarification, comprehension or better to say, ``experimental verification``. You have discussed ``hypothesis`` as one of the roots of scientific method. How this ``hypothesis`` is different from an ``airy-fairy`` idea? I think the only difference is that ``hypothesis`` is such ``airy-fairy`` idea which is intended to be experimentally verified. Science is really boring because it is unduly narrowing down its own field/scope. It is denying the importance of subjective ideas. Attitude of science towards subjective ideas is like as if subjective ideas do not exist at all. On the other hand, science claims to be the knowledge of those entities that exist. Science says what cannot be measured, cannot be studied. What cannot be studied, should be ignored and only those entities should be studied that will be left after having ignored many existing entities. Science avoids seeing things in their totality. It emphasizes on ``measurements`` which means that science deals only with ``parts`` of things. Science makes some ``amazing`` attempts to ``measure`` some non-measurable entities as well. Science claims to measure let`s say, ``intelligence``. According to science, this person has this particular number of IQ, and that person has that particular number of IQ. Why? Because those two persons performed differently in a similar nature test...!!! Science says those two persons should have been given similar nature test because they were having same age. In all this process, science ignores many other processes simply because science doesn`t want to study them, may be by calling those processes ``non-measurable``. Science has no explanation that how a lower IQ person can have some edge over higher IQ person in any particular field. Science does not even want to study these matters. Why study of science be not boring...???
Regards!
Sir, in my assessment, science study is really boring because above mentioned things are really missing in our science education.
Perhaps the reason for it lies in an internal contradiction of science itself. Which is following:
[...] ... There cannot be airy-fairy discussions of things. Science refuses to offer an opinion on things that are unobservable, or whose existence is impossible to verify even in principle. What you cannot see may still actually be there, but science is going to be mum about it. It’s as simple as that. ... [...]
My opinion is that Galileo was able to perform experiments on projectile motion and falling objects of different weights mainly because the first phase of this process i.e. ``airy-fairy`` discussions about characteristics of falling objects already had taken place in ancient Greece. Galileo`s achievement was only that he tried to test those ``airy-fairy`` ideas using experimental techniques. My own ``airy-fairy`` idea is that in order to do any experiment whatsoever, at first we need an ``idea`` that may need confirmation, clarification, comprehension or better to say, ``experimental verification``. You have discussed ``hypothesis`` as one of the roots of scientific method. How this ``hypothesis`` is different from an ``airy-fairy`` idea? I think the only difference is that ``hypothesis`` is such ``airy-fairy`` idea which is intended to be experimentally verified. Science is really boring because it is unduly narrowing down its own field/scope. It is denying the importance of subjective ideas. Attitude of science towards subjective ideas is like as if subjective ideas do not exist at all. On the other hand, science claims to be the knowledge of those entities that exist. Science says what cannot be measured, cannot be studied. What cannot be studied, should be ignored and only those entities should be studied that will be left after having ignored many existing entities. Science avoids seeing things in their totality. It emphasizes on ``measurements`` which means that science deals only with ``parts`` of things. Science makes some ``amazing`` attempts to ``measure`` some non-measurable entities as well. Science claims to measure let`s say, ``intelligence``. According to science, this person has this particular number of IQ, and that person has that particular number of IQ. Why? Because those two persons performed differently in a similar nature test...!!! Science says those two persons should have been given similar nature test because they were having same age. In all this process, science ignores many other processes simply because science doesn`t want to study them, may be by calling those processes ``non-measurable``. Science has no explanation that how a lower IQ person can have some edge over higher IQ person in any particular field. Science does not even want to study these matters. Why study of science be not boring...???
Regards!
#242 Posted by Afreina on March 8, 2007 12:56:02 am
It`s mostly because the teachers who teach science at school lack the passion themselves. I remember having a Physics teacher from PINSTECH and she loved her subject. We called her a nutty professor but at the end of the day it was her passion and zeal for her subject which intrigued us and we started to see Physics with the same fascination as she did.
Such teachers are rare, and we were extremely lucky.
However I personally do NOT think there is anything wrong with the Pakistani curriculum, the fault lies in the examination criterion and style.
Such teachers are rare, and we were extremely lucky.
However I personally do NOT think there is anything wrong with the Pakistani curriculum, the fault lies in the examination criterion and style.
#241 Posted by krishna_abcd on March 7, 2007 11:49:01 pm
#240 by SR
[Man`s capacity to delude himself and his willingness to be deluded is limited only by his imagination.
You should know this by now, your pseudonym has the answer embeded in it. i.e., ``abcd``
These are the four kinds of people (based on their belief structure).
a) atheists and agnostics ... those who don`t buy into any of it. ....]
One small correction:
Agnostics are defined as follows:
Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning ``without`` and gnosis, ``knowledge``, translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
The second category of Agnostics are the most honest - they profess not to know.
[Man`s capacity to delude himself and his willingness to be deluded is limited only by his imagination.
You should know this by now, your pseudonym has the answer embeded in it. i.e., ``abcd``
These are the four kinds of people (based on their belief structure).
a) atheists and agnostics ... those who don`t buy into any of it. ....]
One small correction:
Agnostics are defined as follows:
Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning ``without`` and gnosis, ``knowledge``, translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
The second category of Agnostics are the most honest - they profess not to know.
#240 Posted by SR on March 7, 2007 5:42:58 pm
Re: # 190 krishna-abcd {``...To each his own, eh? No right and wrong, no fact and fiction? Believe what you want? ... how, ... you can still believe what you want to believe. How do you do it? ...`` }
Man`s capacity to delude himself and his willingness to be deluded is limited only by his imagination.
You should know this by now, your pseudonym has the answer embeded in it. i.e., ``abcd``
These are the four kinds of people (based on their belief structure).
a) atheists and agnostics ... those who don`t buy into any of it.
b) borderline ... those who think they don`t believe, but relapse when in crisis or those who think they do believe but when the chips are down and it comes time to take action they opt for the rational.
c) conservatives ... those who fully believe and have faith.
d) die-hards ... those who fit the media generated poster-boy steriotype for the ``jihadis``
And now if you`ll excuse me, my alien visitors are waiting, their flying saucers on the ready, they want me to go witness their making of Crop Circles in the wheatfields.
...SR
Man`s capacity to delude himself and his willingness to be deluded is limited only by his imagination.
You should know this by now, your pseudonym has the answer embeded in it. i.e., ``abcd``
These are the four kinds of people (based on their belief structure).
a) atheists and agnostics ... those who don`t buy into any of it.
b) borderline ... those who think they don`t believe, but relapse when in crisis or those who think they do believe but when the chips are down and it comes time to take action they opt for the rational.
c) conservatives ... those who fully believe and have faith.
d) die-hards ... those who fit the media generated poster-boy steriotype for the ``jihadis``
And now if you`ll excuse me, my alien visitors are waiting, their flying saucers on the ready, they want me to go witness their making of Crop Circles in the wheatfields.
...SR
#239 Posted by SR on March 7, 2007 5:28:24 pm
Re: # 219 ranjit {``...most ... realize that there is a ... 99% chance that there is nothing after death. Your neurons stop firing and thats that!! Yet that 1% possibility ... is what keeps us plodding along with religion...``}
It was perfect sunny weather the other day (ah, that rare British delight) so I went walking along this minor rural road in Straffordshire. Shortly before noon I stopped at the Nag`s Head for a chicken tikka sandwich when I noticed three passably good looking women at the table behind me. They were eagerly scratching numbers off some kind of lottery tickets they`d bought. No fan of lottery tickets myself, it made me curious, so I approached their table, excused myself and pulled up a chair.
I was intrigued by their zeal and excitement. Why were they so enthusiastic about something that had only the most remote chance and was virtually impossible for all practical purposes? At the end of a fifteen minute question and answer session I realised that it was yet another face of ``religion`` in a way. All logic suggested otherwise, but the power of wishful thinking kept them going on. So is it with all sorts of faith based systems. They defy reason, yet their hold on the human imagination is like a vice-grip. It is far stronger than any rationally derived conclusion could ever hope for.
...SR
It was perfect sunny weather the other day (ah, that rare British delight) so I went walking along this minor rural road in Straffordshire. Shortly before noon I stopped at the Nag`s Head for a chicken tikka sandwich when I noticed three passably good looking women at the table behind me. They were eagerly scratching numbers off some kind of lottery tickets they`d bought. No fan of lottery tickets myself, it made me curious, so I approached their table, excused myself and pulled up a chair.
I was intrigued by their zeal and excitement. Why were they so enthusiastic about something that had only the most remote chance and was virtually impossible for all practical purposes? At the end of a fifteen minute question and answer session I realised that it was yet another face of ``religion`` in a way. All logic suggested otherwise, but the power of wishful thinking kept them going on. So is it with all sorts of faith based systems. They defy reason, yet their hold on the human imagination is like a vice-grip. It is far stronger than any rationally derived conclusion could ever hope for.
...SR
#238 Posted by PewResearch on March 7, 2007 12:09:00 pm
Re: # 237 Tahmed32
``...keeps demanding an India-Pakistan mudslinging match,...``
Not at all. I just want you to come clean and explain your position. Why don`t you address the specific issues rather than hiding and parrying on unrelated nonsense?
``...keeps demanding an India-Pakistan mudslinging match,...``
Not at all. I just want you to come clean and explain your position. Why don`t you address the specific issues rather than hiding and parrying on unrelated nonsense?
#237 Posted by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 10:32:52 am
#234 zeemax: pewresearch keeps demanding an India-Pakistan mudslinging match, excuse me, a ``discussion``. And I keep telling him ``bhai jan, jao maaf karo. kisi aur ka sar kkhao.`` :-)
As for the disease, that is what I am trying to figure out, with help from Dr. BJKumar. See #231 below.
As for the disease, that is what I am trying to figure out, with help from Dr. BJKumar. See #231 below.
#236 Posted by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 10:29:41 am
arjun #232/233: I already noted as much in #231, you idiot.
#235 Posted by arjun2 on March 7, 2007 9:48:59 am
#234 by zeemax on March 7, 2007 8:32am PT
welfare queen: time to go collect your welfare check from her majesty`s government...shoo...
welfare queen: time to go collect your welfare check from her majesty`s government...shoo...
#234 Posted by zeemax on March 7, 2007 8:32:53 am
tahmed32,
What did you do to light up pukeResearch`s tail like an agarbatti?
And here .. the head_macaca aka dhotilal_googlemal states he googles day and night for dirty diapers and displays the findings meticulously on each of Chowk`s forums without fail every single day .....
.... what`s this disease called?
What did you do to light up pukeResearch`s tail like an agarbatti?
And here .. the head_macaca aka dhotilal_googlemal states he googles day and night for dirty diapers and displays the findings meticulously on each of Chowk`s forums without fail every single day .....
.... what`s this disease called?
#233 Posted by arjun2 on March 7, 2007 8:23:50 am
#221 by tahmed32 on March 6, 2007 8:05pm PT
i don`t hate pakis any more than I ``hate`` dirty diapers...disgust is not the same as hate...it`s the whole support for islamic terrorism I hate...without that, for most Indians, pakis would just be west bangladesh...
i don`t hate pakis any more than I ``hate`` dirty diapers...disgust is not the same as hate...it`s the whole support for islamic terrorism I hate...without that, for most Indians, pakis would just be west bangladesh...
#232 Posted by arjun2 on March 7, 2007 8:19:53 am
#231 by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 6:55am PT
It`s the jihad, stupid(pbuhsrr)...
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars
I said there are two kinds of pakis: pakis who say they support terrorism and pakis who say they don`t support terrorism(i.e. liars)
It`s the jihad, stupid(pbuhsrr)...
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars
I said there are two kinds of pakis: pakis who say they support terrorism and pakis who say they don`t support terrorism(i.e. liars)
#231 Posted by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 6:55:31 am
bjkumar #227: Thank you sir for an illuminating response. Your 4-point diagnosis (ignoring the 5th one, per your instructions), and some thoughts/questions they raise therefore is as follows:
You say these indivduals:
(1) do not REALLY hate Pakistanis,
Maybe so. But if they dont hate Pakistanis, they are either 2. indifferent; or 3. love and admire pakistanis but dont want to show it. 2. cannot be true, since of all the billions of web pages on the internet, they spend their precious time on chowk, and of the millions of topics, they spend their precious time discussing Pakistanis and muslims. That leaves 1. and 3. (that is, love-hate). hmmmmmmm....this is obviously a complicated malady.
(2) do not believe that - despite all the rhetoric - that all Pakistanis are terrorists and hypocrites
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars, he doesnt really mean what he says!! In other words....he is...he is...er...a gas balloon!! I get it!! :-)
(3) do still retain hope that not ALL reason is gone AWOL,
Given 1. and 2. above, I am not sure if Hope and Reason will find safe haven with these individuals. :-)
(4) do believe that ``discussions`` - even animated ones - are better than doing NOTHING
I beg to differ sir. Discussions with quotes around them are not discussions, animated or otherwise. They are merely exchanging insults and putdowns, and therefore not better than nothing.
You say these indivduals:
(1) do not REALLY hate Pakistanis,
Maybe so. But if they dont hate Pakistanis, they are either 2. indifferent; or 3. love and admire pakistanis but dont want to show it. 2. cannot be true, since of all the billions of web pages on the internet, they spend their precious time on chowk, and of the millions of topics, they spend their precious time discussing Pakistanis and muslims. That leaves 1. and 3. (that is, love-hate). hmmmmmmm....this is obviously a complicated malady.
(2) do not believe that - despite all the rhetoric - that all Pakistanis are terrorists and hypocrites
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars, he doesnt really mean what he says!! In other words....he is...he is...er...a gas balloon!! I get it!! :-)
(3) do still retain hope that not ALL reason is gone AWOL,
Given 1. and 2. above, I am not sure if Hope and Reason will find safe haven with these individuals. :-)
(4) do believe that ``discussions`` - even animated ones - are better than doing NOTHING
I beg to differ sir. Discussions with quotes around them are not discussions, animated or otherwise. They are merely exchanging insults and putdowns, and therefore not better than nothing.
#230 Posted by PewResearch on March 7, 2007 5:32:01 am
Re: # 224 bjkumar
Subject #223 Tahmed32
Again, this is less about what `Pakistani terrorists are doing in India` or any other grandiose designs that Pakistan may have over India. It also has less to do with your `classification` of Pakistanis. It has everything to do with exposing the self-righteous (and now shown to be hypocritical) Tahmed32 for all to see. There is also another element: a lack of a call to arms when General Musharraf sends murderous gangs into Afghanistan or India speaks volumes of where Tahmed32`s true sympathies lie (your and my words notwithstanding). Note: he is quick to resort to such calls when these neighbors offer to pay back in the same coin. That is a MATERIAL difference. So, be fooled at your own risk - you saw his reaction to your post in #224.
Also, notice: he is equating this material public exposure of his positions with `hate (for) pakistanis and consider them to be terrorists and hypocrites and so forth`. Where is the connection? Also, if there is a connection at all, ask who is doing the infiltration? and who THEN is likely afflicted by `hate`? All this, the self-righteous Tahmed glosses over.
He could easily have distanced himself from these well-known jihadi efforts by Musharraf with equal vigor, but rather he chose to use racial epithets. What does that tell you about the man?
Krishna_abcd; Arjun: Although reasoning directly with the man may not help him, exposing him for the self-righteous positions that he takes will help clarify for others on Chowk what his ilk stand for.
Subject #223 Tahmed32
Again, this is less about what `Pakistani terrorists are doing in India` or any other grandiose designs that Pakistan may have over India. It also has less to do with your `classification` of Pakistanis. It has everything to do with exposing the self-righteous (and now shown to be hypocritical) Tahmed32 for all to see. There is also another element: a lack of a call to arms when General Musharraf sends murderous gangs into Afghanistan or India speaks volumes of where Tahmed32`s true sympathies lie (your and my words notwithstanding). Note: he is quick to resort to such calls when these neighbors offer to pay back in the same coin. That is a MATERIAL difference. So, be fooled at your own risk - you saw his reaction to your post in #224.
Also, notice: he is equating this material public exposure of his positions with `hate (for) pakistanis and consider them to be terrorists and hypocrites and so forth`. Where is the connection? Also, if there is a connection at all, ask who is doing the infiltration? and who THEN is likely afflicted by `hate`? All this, the self-righteous Tahmed glosses over.
He could easily have distanced himself from these well-known jihadi efforts by Musharraf with equal vigor, but rather he chose to use racial epithets. What does that tell you about the man?
Krishna_abcd; Arjun: Although reasoning directly with the man may not help him, exposing him for the self-righteous positions that he takes will help clarify for others on Chowk what his ilk stand for.
#229 Posted by PewResearch on March 7, 2007 5:12:24 am
Re: # 223 Tahmed32
``...no discussion wiscussion with macacas...``
So you are not above using racial epithets used by discredited American politicians? So much for your self-righteous `respect for even servants` nonsense and `first and foremost developing a good character` (#151). Hypocrite!
``...no discussion wiscussion with macacas...``
So you are not above using racial epithets used by discredited American politicians? So much for your self-righteous `respect for even servants` nonsense and `first and foremost developing a good character` (#151). Hypocrite!
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