Teaching Science Badly – and Well

#113 by Tehsinabbasi

Okay. Even though this is the `Fundamentals of Existence 101`, since you have asked, I shall answer. But please don`t ask me to elaborate. That`ll be too tedious.

- Are you saying that you will not be maggot meal?

No. The emphasis is on `you`.

- That you will be transported to Junnah and have your 72 hoors right away or do you believe that you will have to wait in your grave till judgment day when you will be summoned to answer for your deeds.

No. I don`t think that`s what Quran means literally.

- Isn’t that a long time to wait, because the ones you admire so much didn’t believe that judgment day was so far away. Forget maggots you’d be lucky to find dirt their.

See above.

- Is your body you and the spirit just the breath in it? Isn’t the conception of heaven that has been sold to you contain nothing but hedonistic pleasures, eat fruit, drink sharab e tahura, screw hoors and ghilmans.

You take a false premise and continue to build upon it. I told you in the beginning I don`t believe all that.

- If that is what your eternity will be like, Why bother - go to the playboy mansion its all there. Even that, if you are anything more then a pig, you will get sick of it in a couple of years. There is more to us then being an eating, fukking machine (a pig).

See above. You`re just making an assumption about what I think and then running away with it in your silly rage to prove I don`t know what .... My opinions have nothing to do with your assumptions.

Re your last sentence in the para above, what is that `more`? I would really like to know. It also appears you think there`s an `eternity`. And what could be that?

:~)

Ref#113
[What is it in our genes, or in our water, or in our culture or lest I say religion that has prevented us from taking up this course which even the Indians and Chinese have adopted. That is my question.]

Dear Tehsin

This is Islamic predicament. Muslim rationalise and justify everything in Islam by what it is not. To be more specific
1. Islam is violent but Muslim insists it is peaceful.

2. Mohammad has not shown any compassion in his life eg. killinh of non-muslims, having sex with girls whose husband he killed same day. But muslims insist that Mohammad is compassionate.

3. Islam subjugates and treats women like animals or like personal property. But Muslim and Muslimina`s insist that Islam raised the status of women.

4. Islam perpetuate the idolatory that is the worship of `place holder` or Idols instead of the real thing. In fact Mohammad is the biggest idol in Islam. In other relegions it is humans who worship gos but in Islam it god and his angels who worship Mohammad.

5. Mohammad and his companions were barbarians but Muslim insist that they were most civilized human being that ever walked upon the face of earth.

I can keep on going. This mind set which insist `War is Peace` and `False is true` is the biggest enemy of Muslims. Beacuse rest of the world does not see it like this. And that is the cause of victim hood.

Science demands if an hypothesis is wrong then you must accept it.

Only path for the Muslims is to leave Islam, as I did.

#112 by Tehsinabbasi,

What is it in our genes, or in our water, or in our culture or lest I say religion that has prevented us from taking up this course which even the Indians and Chinese have adopted. That is my question.

Firstly, do not take hamidm or his contentions seriously. His buffoonery is just meant for his own amusement as well as some here. He is a lost soul who does not know whether he`s coming or going ... that`s why he rejects history because he finds himself a misfit in any and all kinds of history.

Next, let me answer this question for you.

There`s nothing in our genes to prevent us from taking any course, and it hasn`t. The premise is wrong. However, Muslims are not willing to forego their religion and culture for accelerated progress because Muslims have never been completely vanquished and overwhelmed as a people as the Japanese, Chinese and the Indians have, thereby forcing the latter to adapt their conquerors` culture, ways and assimilate just in order to survive.

As for science & technology, these are commonplace disciplines which can be bought off the shelf or developed in-house with little effort. The examples are everywhere such as nuclear proliferation even in N. Korea which is termed as being in the dark ages where ploughs are still used for harvest, not even tractors.

So I really don`t understand what`s the big deal about it. In the larger picture, political dominance is more important than acquiring this petty IT stuff which everyone complains about. As I said before, the best IT talent is in the downtrodden Romania rather than your examples of China and India. China merely copies (just as Japan did in the beginning), and India merely types code. The innovation is elsewhere where the money, time, and the political power is to fund such innovation, mainly in Europe and then USA to some extent.

As an example of engineering skill, the clay pipe watering system in the Shalamar Gardens of Lahore was only replaced in the 1980`s after 200 (+) years of flawless functioning.

So, the Muslim focus is on achieving political dominance, and with it, the control of resources. Once that is done, you will see a renaissance all over again in science, arts & literature. After all, it has only been 500 years since the Muslim dominance in all these fields began to wane.

Military and political power comes first.

#109 & #111 by zeemax


Maggot meal:

You continue to bring this subject up every chance you get. I have a few questions of my own for you.

Are you saying that you will not be maggot meal?

Beyond this it is all a realm of hope and competing myths. But still I would like to know which one you subscribe to. So do you think:

- That you will be transported to Junnah and have your 72 hoors right away or do you believe that you will have to wait in your grave till judgment day when you will be summoned to answer for your deeds.
- Isn’t that a long time to wait, because the ones you admire so much didn’t believe that judgment day was so far away. Forget maggots you’d be lucky to find dirt their.
- Is your body you and the spirit just the breath in it? Isn’t the conception of heaven that has been sold to you contain nothing but hedonistic pleasures, eat fruit, drink sharab e tahura, screw hoors and ghilmans.
- If that is what your eternity will be like, Why bother - go to the playboy mansion its all there. Even that, if you are anything more then a pig, you will get sick of it in a couple of years. There is more to us then being an eating, fukking machine (a pig).

#75 by hamidm2

Oye Khabees!

Stick to the subject and don’t go wild on me. I was restricting myself to Muslims so when I say a disproportionate representation of them are in science classes that is precisely what I mean Indians and Chinese don’t seem to have our problem.

“out of the hundred, ten commit suicide because they realize they are not as smart as their parents led them to believe and another forty take up sociology, history, greek mythology and philosophy so that they can make easy a`s and drink more beer”

By this logic 40 percent of Muslims who are sent to America for higher education should be humanities graduates. You are crazy if you think any of them go back with such degrees.

But you miss the point – why is it that all these great science graduates like you who went back to their respective Muslim countries, did not bring about a scientific revolution in their societies. They could have fostered a sense of wonder, a realization of all the possibilities that such a path to discovery offers. It wouldn’t have been unique in history if this had happened.

We have a very vivid and clear example of U.S Commodore Perry who sailed into Japanese harbor in 1854. Isolationist Japan was helpless in preventing such a bold maneuver. They ended up being so impressed with the science, gadgetry and the mini railroad coach that he brought with him, that they went all out to learn science and to advance like the West. From no infrastructure to building their own planes they accomplished in a few decades and by the second world war they had their own aircraft carriers their own planes and their own weapon plants.

What is it in our genes, or in our water, or in our culture or lest I say religion that has prevented us from taking up this course which even the Indians and Chinese have adopted. That is my question.

#110 by hamidm2 ,

Well actually, being buried, or burnt to a cinder with that awful smell, or thrown into a dirty river to become fish meal, it`s all the same isn`t it?

If death ends all, then why should you care? If you`re scared of being buried alive, you could be burnt alive too .. so the reasoning does not stand. Or do you mean to say some part of you will remain alive while being buried? I don`t really get what you mean.

The best would however be what O`Leary did. Scattered in space. Have you considered that :~)

Or there are the cryogenic chambers .. perhaps someday we`ll be able to wake you up and bring you back to Chowk ... :)

Re: # 109

zeemax,

... i hate to disappoint you and your maggots, but i plan on being cremated - not because i want to honor grandpa goipinath but simply because i have a morbid fear of being buried alive ......... you mullah types really need to give up on your maggots, hell fire and brimstone stories - they are old and don`t scare people any more .......

#108 by hamidm2

Thanks for clarifying your stance. It is now clear your entire purpose of existence is to fatten yourself like a pig to the slaughter for the maggots ...

Good enough. At-least you will do SOMEONE some good ..

Re: # 105

naqsh,

......... the burden of proof lies with people who believe in virgin births and the tooth fairy ..... even though i believe in using the common sense approach and do not like to quote god or man, i agree with dawkins in that the concept of noma (non-overlapping magesteria ) is poppycock ...... all this stuff about `` science and religion occupy two very different spheres of human existence`` is utter nonsense and at best a cop out by people who are afraid of maggots to take on the relgious lunatics ...... you don`t have step into horseshit, much less eat it, to realize that is is horseshit - you can smell it a mile off ..........

.....and now he`ll say I`m being crude ... but honestly ... maggots do not have a father ..

Hamidm,

What further evidence do you need of virgin birth? Believe me, the maggots that will eat you will all be born out of this process in their millions ...

Re: # 93

you miss the point: even if science wanted to it cannot disprove any of these spiritual things because its entire gambit is only to do with the world of matter. what cannot be measured cannot be tested by science. science and religion occupy two very different spheres of human existence.

#98

``I`ve read about dozens of muslim marches against Israel, the war on iraq etc etc...``

That also endorsed and decided either directly or indirectly by hindu majority of WEst Bengal.....

Re: # 100

arjun,

..... if it is any consolation, inspite of the fact that i would like to see the liberation of kashmir, i support your jihad against the obscurantist forces that are ruining the pakistan that i hope to retire to in 2020 .......... keep up the good work :)

what makes anyone think pakis actually want to pursue knowledge instead of 72 vigins? Look at brit-pakis...they have access to a good education system, almost free health care etc etc..

And yet they`re way behind in the education game and way ahead in the jihad game..the simple fact is that pakis prefer jihad over java...

Internet Spreading Dangerous Ideology?

The terror raids in Birmingham Wednesday have prompted much anger among the area’s Asian community. But they have also made local mosque leaders question the source of the rise in Islamic fundamentalism among Britain’s young Muslims.

Shabir Hussain, the imam of a mosque near one of the homes stormed by anti-terror police, believes that the dangerous ideology of radical Islam is coming not from a small number of imams sowing anti-western sentiment at secret meetings, but from the Internet.

``The children are not learning from the mosques, not learning from the parents,” he said. “Young kids, they see the news and see the Internet. They think, ‘something`s happening in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Palestine, in Kashmir, and Muslims are oppressed everywhere and some injustice is happening in the world.’”

The personal — and some might say secretive — nature of Internet use could be creating a sense of paranoia that is being felt inside the homes of British Muslims.

``Something is happening in the house,” Mr Hussain said. “Father is looking at son, `What are you looking at on the Internet? What are you watching on the TV? Where are you going? Who are your friends?’ These kinds of things are already happening.``

A London based producer who monitors daily a range of jihadi Web sites for CBS News, believes there is a host of factors contributing to the groundswell of anger evident among many young Muslims in Britain.

``They`ve lost a sense of belonging. Integration doesn`t work. There`s the recent spate of arrests,” he said.

But it could be the easy access to militant Islamic websites that is increasing and channeling this anger.

CBS News` producer said that young British Muslims are “more politicized than others their age, simply because of their background” and that some seek the unsanitized view of the world offered by the Internet, a view that many feel is lacking in more mainstream news.

``There`s no barrier between the youngsters and what occurs in the world in terms of conflict,`` he said. “You go into a website at random and put in ‘beheading clips’ and you will find them, starting from Daniel Pearl in Pakistan to Ken Bigley in Iraq.”

The alleged plot by the nine terrorist suspects arrested yesterday to kidnap a serving British Muslim soldier, behead him and broadcast the footage on the web is chillingly similar to the media-savvy tactics employed by jihadist groups in Iraq.

The fighters who construct these Islamist websites have even taken to calling themselves ``electronic mujahideen.``

``Every operation they make, there`s a camera filming it and then it`s posted on the Internet,`` the producer said. ``There`s messages from al Qaeda, and now they`re going on Arab satellite channels and American security centers.”

Re: # 93

Hamidm Sahib:

Science`s foundation to only proves and accept the presence and not the absence. The absence is always through deduction. So far presence of virgin birth has not proven. If this makes your life easier, and not be angry with the doctor sahib.