Teaching Science Badly – and Well
Pervez Hoodbhoy March 1, 2007
#244 Posted by echoboom on July 24, 2007 7:39:12 pm
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Nos
voleurs!
Il y a des
problèmes extrêmes où nous nous
debattons et que nous avons trop tardé à
regarder en face. A la différence des pays
occidentaux, nos "pays musulmans" ne connaissent que peu de
hold-up de banques.
C'est que les
voleurs d'envergure savent qu'aujourd'hui, dans nos pays, la
source d'enrichissement la plus sûre, la plus rapide,
la seule à vrai dire, est le pouvoir.
À titre
d´exemple : le systeme féodal (makhzen) - qui
n´a rien à voir avec l´Islam - que Hassan
II a pérpétué anachroniquement au Maroc
en plein XXe siècle - fait de la corruption
généralisée un systhème de
gouvernement. Le régime de Hassan II constitue, pour
notre pays, pour notre peuple et pour notre avenir un danger
mortel réel.
Face à ce
danger et à son défi, il n y a, devant nous,
qu´une seule alternative et une seule réponse:
une révolution islamique radicale,
éclairée, intelligente, tolérante et
liberatrce! En Islam, la liberté est
la
régle.
L´interdit est l´exception.
Il s´impose,
AUJOURD´HUI,
urgence et nécessité vitale de créer un
FRONT
ISLAMIQUE UNI POUR
LA LIBERATION
DU MAROC.
Les
grands ne sont grands que parce que nous sommes
à genoux. Levons-nous!
Ahmed
Rami
"
War is
ugly, but to be dominated is still uglier
"
Imam
Khomeini
"The
Old and New Testaments had collided. The rabbi's dad had
taught him about an eye for an eye - or 20 homes for a
stone, in this case - whereas my dad had taught me about
turning the other cheek. Judaism and Christianity had
collided. So was it any surprise that Judaism and Islam were
colliding"
R.
Fisk, The Independent, 29 août
2001
"Everyone
has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this
right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference
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frontiers."
Article
19. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
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#243 Posted by khuram on March 20, 2007 10:36:58 am
[...] ... ``II. Second, good teachers must emphasize learning rather than teaching. The two are different. Learning is a process that progresses from the concrete to the abstract as cognitive abilities slowly improve. But students first need to get acquainted with the things around them such as devices, organisms, materials, shapes, and numbers. They must observe them, collect them, handle them, describe them, become puzzled by them, ask questions about them, argue about them, and then to try to find answers to their questions. Abstractions develop after these experiences, not before.`` ... [...]
Sir, in my assessment, science study is really boring because above mentioned things are really missing in our science education.
Perhaps the reason for it lies in an internal contradiction of science itself. Which is following:
[...] ... There cannot be airy-fairy discussions of things. Science refuses to offer an opinion on things that are unobservable, or whose existence is impossible to verify even in principle. What you cannot see may still actually be there, but science is going to be mum about it. It’s as simple as that. ... [...]
My opinion is that Galileo was able to perform experiments on projectile motion and falling objects of different weights mainly because the first phase of this process i.e. ``airy-fairy`` discussions about characteristics of falling objects already had taken place in ancient Greece. Galileo`s achievement was only that he tried to test those ``airy-fairy`` ideas using experimental techniques. My own ``airy-fairy`` idea is that in order to do any experiment whatsoever, at first we need an ``idea`` that may need confirmation, clarification, comprehension or better to say, ``experimental verification``. You have discussed ``hypothesis`` as one of the roots of scientific method. How this ``hypothesis`` is different from an ``airy-fairy`` idea? I think the only difference is that ``hypothesis`` is such ``airy-fairy`` idea which is intended to be experimentally verified. Science is really boring because it is unduly narrowing down its own field/scope. It is denying the importance of subjective ideas. Attitude of science towards subjective ideas is like as if subjective ideas do not exist at all. On the other hand, science claims to be the knowledge of those entities that exist. Science says what cannot be measured, cannot be studied. What cannot be studied, should be ignored and only those entities should be studied that will be left after having ignored many existing entities. Science avoids seeing things in their totality. It emphasizes on ``measurements`` which means that science deals only with ``parts`` of things. Science makes some ``amazing`` attempts to ``measure`` some non-measurable entities as well. Science claims to measure let`s say, ``intelligence``. According to science, this person has this particular number of IQ, and that person has that particular number of IQ. Why? Because those two persons performed differently in a similar nature test...!!! Science says those two persons should have been given similar nature test because they were having same age. In all this process, science ignores many other processes simply because science doesn`t want to study them, may be by calling those processes ``non-measurable``. Science has no explanation that how a lower IQ person can have some edge over higher IQ person in any particular field. Science does not even want to study these matters. Why study of science be not boring...???
Regards!
Sir, in my assessment, science study is really boring because above mentioned things are really missing in our science education.
Perhaps the reason for it lies in an internal contradiction of science itself. Which is following:
[...] ... There cannot be airy-fairy discussions of things. Science refuses to offer an opinion on things that are unobservable, or whose existence is impossible to verify even in principle. What you cannot see may still actually be there, but science is going to be mum about it. It’s as simple as that. ... [...]
My opinion is that Galileo was able to perform experiments on projectile motion and falling objects of different weights mainly because the first phase of this process i.e. ``airy-fairy`` discussions about characteristics of falling objects already had taken place in ancient Greece. Galileo`s achievement was only that he tried to test those ``airy-fairy`` ideas using experimental techniques. My own ``airy-fairy`` idea is that in order to do any experiment whatsoever, at first we need an ``idea`` that may need confirmation, clarification, comprehension or better to say, ``experimental verification``. You have discussed ``hypothesis`` as one of the roots of scientific method. How this ``hypothesis`` is different from an ``airy-fairy`` idea? I think the only difference is that ``hypothesis`` is such ``airy-fairy`` idea which is intended to be experimentally verified. Science is really boring because it is unduly narrowing down its own field/scope. It is denying the importance of subjective ideas. Attitude of science towards subjective ideas is like as if subjective ideas do not exist at all. On the other hand, science claims to be the knowledge of those entities that exist. Science says what cannot be measured, cannot be studied. What cannot be studied, should be ignored and only those entities should be studied that will be left after having ignored many existing entities. Science avoids seeing things in their totality. It emphasizes on ``measurements`` which means that science deals only with ``parts`` of things. Science makes some ``amazing`` attempts to ``measure`` some non-measurable entities as well. Science claims to measure let`s say, ``intelligence``. According to science, this person has this particular number of IQ, and that person has that particular number of IQ. Why? Because those two persons performed differently in a similar nature test...!!! Science says those two persons should have been given similar nature test because they were having same age. In all this process, science ignores many other processes simply because science doesn`t want to study them, may be by calling those processes ``non-measurable``. Science has no explanation that how a lower IQ person can have some edge over higher IQ person in any particular field. Science does not even want to study these matters. Why study of science be not boring...???
Regards!
#242 Posted by Afreina on March 8, 2007 12:56:02 am
It`s mostly because the teachers who teach science at school lack the passion themselves. I remember having a Physics teacher from PINSTECH and she loved her subject. We called her a nutty professor but at the end of the day it was her passion and zeal for her subject which intrigued us and we started to see Physics with the same fascination as she did.
Such teachers are rare, and we were extremely lucky.
However I personally do NOT think there is anything wrong with the Pakistani curriculum, the fault lies in the examination criterion and style.
Such teachers are rare, and we were extremely lucky.
However I personally do NOT think there is anything wrong with the Pakistani curriculum, the fault lies in the examination criterion and style.
#241 Posted by krishna_abcd on March 7, 2007 11:49:01 pm
#240 by SR
[Man`s capacity to delude himself and his willingness to be deluded is limited only by his imagination.
You should know this by now, your pseudonym has the answer embeded in it. i.e., ``abcd``
These are the four kinds of people (based on their belief structure).
a) atheists and agnostics ... those who don`t buy into any of it. ....]
One small correction:
Agnostics are defined as follows:
Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning ``without`` and gnosis, ``knowledge``, translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
The second category of Agnostics are the most honest - they profess not to know.
[Man`s capacity to delude himself and his willingness to be deluded is limited only by his imagination.
You should know this by now, your pseudonym has the answer embeded in it. i.e., ``abcd``
These are the four kinds of people (based on their belief structure).
a) atheists and agnostics ... those who don`t buy into any of it. ....]
One small correction:
Agnostics are defined as follows:
Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning ``without`` and gnosis, ``knowledge``, translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
The second category of Agnostics are the most honest - they profess not to know.
#237 Posted by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 10:32:52 am
#234 zeemax: pewresearch keeps demanding an India-Pakistan mudslinging match, excuse me, a ``discussion``. And I keep telling him ``bhai jan, jao maaf karo. kisi aur ka sar kkhao.`` :-)
As for the disease, that is what I am trying to figure out, with help from Dr. BJKumar. See #231 below.
As for the disease, that is what I am trying to figure out, with help from Dr. BJKumar. See #231 below.
#238 Posted by PewResearch on March 7, 2007 12:09:00 pm
Re: # 237 Tahmed32
``...keeps demanding an India-Pakistan mudslinging match,...``
Not at all. I just want you to come clean and explain your position. Why don`t you address the specific issues rather than hiding and parrying on unrelated nonsense?
``...keeps demanding an India-Pakistan mudslinging match,...``
Not at all. I just want you to come clean and explain your position. Why don`t you address the specific issues rather than hiding and parrying on unrelated nonsense?
#236 Posted by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 10:29:41 am
arjun #232/233: I already noted as much in #231, you idiot.
#235 Posted by arjun2 on March 7, 2007 9:48:59 am
#234 by zeemax on March 7, 2007 8:32am PT
welfare queen: time to go collect your welfare check from her majesty`s government...shoo...
welfare queen: time to go collect your welfare check from her majesty`s government...shoo...
#234 Posted by zeemax on March 7, 2007 8:32:53 am
tahmed32,
What did you do to light up pukeResearch`s tail like an agarbatti?
And here .. the head_macaca aka dhotilal_googlemal states he googles day and night for dirty diapers and displays the findings meticulously on each of Chowk`s forums without fail every single day .....
.... what`s this disease called?
What did you do to light up pukeResearch`s tail like an agarbatti?
And here .. the head_macaca aka dhotilal_googlemal states he googles day and night for dirty diapers and displays the findings meticulously on each of Chowk`s forums without fail every single day .....
.... what`s this disease called?
#233 Posted by arjun2 on March 7, 2007 8:23:50 am
#221 by tahmed32 on March 6, 2007 8:05pm PT
i don`t hate pakis any more than I ``hate`` dirty diapers...disgust is not the same as hate...it`s the whole support for islamic terrorism I hate...without that, for most Indians, pakis would just be west bangladesh...
i don`t hate pakis any more than I ``hate`` dirty diapers...disgust is not the same as hate...it`s the whole support for islamic terrorism I hate...without that, for most Indians, pakis would just be west bangladesh...
#232 Posted by arjun2 on March 7, 2007 8:19:53 am
#231 by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 6:55am PT
It`s the jihad, stupid(pbuhsrr)...
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars
I said there are two kinds of pakis: pakis who say they support terrorism and pakis who say they don`t support terrorism(i.e. liars)
It`s the jihad, stupid(pbuhsrr)...
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars
I said there are two kinds of pakis: pakis who say they support terrorism and pakis who say they don`t support terrorism(i.e. liars)
#231 Posted by tahmed32 on March 7, 2007 6:55:31 am
bjkumar #227: Thank you sir for an illuminating response. Your 4-point diagnosis (ignoring the 5th one, per your instructions), and some thoughts/questions they raise therefore is as follows:
You say these indivduals:
(1) do not REALLY hate Pakistanis,
Maybe so. But if they dont hate Pakistanis, they are either 2. indifferent; or 3. love and admire pakistanis but dont want to show it. 2. cannot be true, since of all the billions of web pages on the internet, they spend their precious time on chowk, and of the millions of topics, they spend their precious time discussing Pakistanis and muslims. That leaves 1. and 3. (that is, love-hate). hmmmmmmm....this is obviously a complicated malady.
(2) do not believe that - despite all the rhetoric - that all Pakistanis are terrorists and hypocrites
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars, he doesnt really mean what he says!! In other words....he is...he is...er...a gas balloon!! I get it!! :-)
(3) do still retain hope that not ALL reason is gone AWOL,
Given 1. and 2. above, I am not sure if Hope and Reason will find safe haven with these individuals. :-)
(4) do believe that ``discussions`` - even animated ones - are better than doing NOTHING
I beg to differ sir. Discussions with quotes around them are not discussions, animated or otherwise. They are merely exchanging insults and putdowns, and therefore not better than nothing.
You say these indivduals:
(1) do not REALLY hate Pakistanis,
Maybe so. But if they dont hate Pakistanis, they are either 2. indifferent; or 3. love and admire pakistanis but dont want to show it. 2. cannot be true, since of all the billions of web pages on the internet, they spend their precious time on chowk, and of the millions of topics, they spend their precious time discussing Pakistanis and muslims. That leaves 1. and 3. (that is, love-hate). hmmmmmmm....this is obviously a complicated malady.
(2) do not believe that - despite all the rhetoric - that all Pakistanis are terrorists and hypocrites
You mean when arjun writes that all Pakistanis are terrorists or liars, he doesnt really mean what he says!! In other words....he is...he is...er...a gas balloon!! I get it!! :-)
(3) do still retain hope that not ALL reason is gone AWOL,
Given 1. and 2. above, I am not sure if Hope and Reason will find safe haven with these individuals. :-)
(4) do believe that ``discussions`` - even animated ones - are better than doing NOTHING
I beg to differ sir. Discussions with quotes around them are not discussions, animated or otherwise. They are merely exchanging insults and putdowns, and therefore not better than nothing.
#228 Posted by krishna_abcd on March 7, 2007 1:48:35 am
#221 by tahmed32
[#217 arjun: So what you are saying is you dont hate terrorists and liars (which is what you said a few posts below all pakis are). ]
Your basic premise is full of holes.
For one, liars can be pitied and looked down upon with contempt - not necessarily hated.
There is a difference.
Get back to your drawing board and try again.
[#217 arjun: So what you are saying is you dont hate terrorists and liars (which is what you said a few posts below all pakis are). ]
Your basic premise is full of holes.
For one, liars can be pitied and looked down upon with contempt - not necessarily hated.
There is a difference.
Get back to your drawing board and try again.
#227 Posted by bjkumar on March 6, 2007 9:45:35 pm
#226 Tauheed sahib,
I am astounded! Here I am trying to snatch ``those`` chestnuts out of fire for you and here you are trying to light up those sparks into my very own bark?!! :)
Oh well!
Okhal mein sir diya to moosal se kya darna!!
Here goes.
[why your countrymen who profess to hate pakistanis and consider them to be terrorists and hypocrites and so forth fall over one another to have engage in ``discussions`` with them?]
Perhaps Tauheed sahib, my ``countrymen``
(1) do not REALLY hate Pakistanis,
(2) do not believe that - despite all the rhetoric - that all Pakistanis are terrorists and hypocrites
(3) do still retain hope that not ALL reason is gone AWOL,
(4) do believe that ``discussions`` - even animated ones - are better than doing NOTHING
and
(this is only for Tauheed sahib, so everybody else go away!)
(5) perhaps your God-given charm and all the hard work you have been doing here for so long is finally beginning to pay off!! :)
(Okay, everybody else can now come back!)
#226 Posted by tahmed32 on March 6, 2007 9:26:17 pm
bjkumar: Could you explain why your countrymen who profess to hate pakistanis and consider them to be terrorists and hypocrites and so forth fall over one another to have engage in ``discussions`` with them? This is a very puzzling phenomenon indeed.
#225 Posted by Singularity on March 6, 2007 9:15:37 pm
PewResearch,Krishna:
I have interacted with Mullah in hiding Tahmed32. There are three kind of muslims. The first is the shameless and proud mullahs like Romair,Urstruly and the wanna be thug(but coward) Zeemax. The second is the enlightened muslims(Dr.Sohail, Pervez Hoodbhoy etc) who have some left over memes from their Hindu root. The third is the mullah in hiding like Tahmed32. We know the first variety and know how to handle them in real world. The second are taking a complete break from the Arab Imperialism called Islam. The third are the ones we should be watchful of.
No matter what the mullahs think, ISLAM is on its last leg and is waning. It has no economic, military or political power to sustain its Barbaric Founder Mullah MohaMAD`s zeal to kill, rape and plunder. So learn to ignore these LOSERS and focus on spending your time productively for your family, country and the progressive, enlightened humanity.
I have interacted with Mullah in hiding Tahmed32. There are three kind of muslims. The first is the shameless and proud mullahs like Romair,Urstruly and the wanna be thug(but coward) Zeemax. The second is the enlightened muslims(Dr.Sohail, Pervez Hoodbhoy etc) who have some left over memes from their Hindu root. The third is the mullah in hiding like Tahmed32. We know the first variety and know how to handle them in real world. The second are taking a complete break from the Arab Imperialism called Islam. The third are the ones we should be watchful of.
No matter what the mullahs think, ISLAM is on its last leg and is waning. It has no economic, military or political power to sustain its Barbaric Founder Mullah MohaMAD`s zeal to kill, rape and plunder. So learn to ignore these LOSERS and focus on spending your time productively for your family, country and the progressive, enlightened humanity.
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