What is it going to take to have a Clean Bombay?

Re: # 60

Calcutta was a dump, and will remain a dump for a long time to come. Nothing will change.

Yes, whatwill change the city- is if the refugees who turned up post 1971 are sent back packing to their country of origin and let them sort out their political problem there.

1971 was the year when calcutta started going down hill rapidly,IMHO

Re: # 57

Ajay78,

I do agree with NB regarding Calcutta. As mentioned is my previous post, there has
been some effort to clean up the city. Is it still filthy ? Of course it is. But the changes
are visible to the discerning (and perhaps forgiving) eye.

I have been to Bombay only as a visitor, so cannot offer a meaningful comparison. But
Delhi is definitely a cleaner city that both Bombay and Calcutta.

Einsteinwallah #51,

Making Indian railways expensive just to keep people out of Bombay and imposing
internal visa laws are both rather draconian measures. Imposing tougher penalties
and tightening littering laws are both do-able.

Re: # 58
I just saw Einsteinwallah said he left in 1989. I think then he is wrong. I have an aunt in Bhawanipore, so I know. However, if he has not visited for 17 years, and then visits as an NRI, he will see no change, because it is still dirty,but his standards will have changed as a result of having lived away from India for so long. It doesn`t help to jump to Bombay`s defence as you are doing. It is inexcusable that a city that fancies itself as equal to New York, no shining star of cleanliness itself, allows itself to wallow in this filth.

Re: # 58

Try proposing some solutions for Bombay instead of bringing in your hatred and envy. Something constructive would help.

Re: # 57, I`m sorry, I thought the article was about Bombay. I was not aware there was a competition, in which case the whole of India would fail miserably. Calcutta is not cleaner than the late 90s, but it is way cleaner than the 80s. I have no idea when Einsteinwallah left. He did not call me out, as you put it, he gave his own opinions. Howrah station still is and remains filthy, but you don`t even see as many bare bottoms going into Howrah of a morning as you do going into Bombay.
You also don`t see people spitting as much anywhere else, and I really don`t know why.

Re: # 56

NB

I don`t support the system of internal passports or any form of communism, like people in some states of India..

I completely agree that middle-class apathy is a huge problem. Read my posts and you will see that.

You show absolutely zero objectivity when it comes to Calcutta. Einsteinwallah called you out about how the dirty parts of the city remain dirty and you launch a tirade against Bombay in response.

Re: # 55
so it isn`t part of Bombay now? You cannot claim only the parts of Bombay that you like and disown the others. This is just the attitude I`m talking about. I have seen more of South Bombay than a lot of people. And I`m sorry, most of it is still dirty. I also saw this mass defecation in large parts of Santa Cruz. People complain about the ``lower classes`` being dirty, but they cannot live without construction workers and maids-how many of these people have access to clean toilets? Forget about maids actually, in public hospitals as a doctor, I did not have access to clean toilets.
Other cities at least acknowledge it is an issue, I hear people in Calcutta saying it`s dirty but I love it anyway. In Bombay you hear, it`s not dirty, it`s wonderful. And I am not talking about the high profile Shobha Des of the world who participate in ``clean city`; campaigns, I find the middle classes completely uninterested.
I`ll give you some time too to come up with a democratic country that restricts movement to cities and has internal passports.

Re: # 54

So now Dharavi = Bombay.

Re: # 53
I`m sorry but the long line of people defecating with the backs to the train seems almost unique..in other cities people at least try to hide. The streets of Dharavi at 5:30 am are occupied by people squatting in long lines on either side of the road while the rest of the world acts like nothing is happening. When did you see that in Delhi or Calcutta?

I was in Kolkata in Nov 06. I stayed near my old home (near MG Rd metro station). I visited Bhawanipore. I came by train so I saw Howrah Station. None of these places have changed form what they were in 89 when I left Kolkata. I would not say Kolkata is any cleaner than Mumbai.

Internal passport may not be possible but some kind of anti-vagrancy laws should be there. In Mumbai autorickshaws are not permitted south of Bandra. People do not see such restriction as unreasonable. I do not see why anti-vagrancy laws cannot be enacted. Such laws may be already there. May be these needs to applied strictly. Defecating in public places should be punishable by RI.

Re: # 51

What bothers me more is when so-called educated and middle class people litter and trash the city. Such people should get more hrash treatment than Bhaiyyas and Biharis who follow their ``village instincts.``

You cannot have better Mumbai and rest of India stinking. Mumbai`s problem is exactly that. It is part of India. For less than a 1000 Rupees you can come from anywhere in India to Mumbai. India probably needs cheap railways but as long as they are cheap no metropolis can ever be clean. Bhaiyya culture of Paan chabaaoing, spitting, shitting etc is not going to go away. And Bhaiyyas cannot be wished away. Anywhere you go Bhaiyyas are there. My prescription: make Indian Railways expensive, impose city-dweller permit (call it visa or whatever), anyone using any public property (especially the roads) should be made to pay ``rent`` and heavy fine of bad public hygiene. None of these is going to happen. I laugh when people like Vilasrao talk about making Mumbai a Shanghai.

Re: # 48
I dont know.I think we can rank cities on basis of
1) infrastructure
2) weather
3)immigrant friendliness
4)Foodie friendliness
5)employability...presence of big businesses
5)cleanliness
6)greenery
7) nightlife
8)cosmopolitan nature
9)law n order
10) Cost of living
11) proximity to vacation spots
hmm?

Re: # 40
No one thinks it shouldn`t improve. Show me where I said that, or explain yourself. A lot of people think it`s so good, it can`t improve.
It gives me no pleasure that Bombay is so dirty, but I am tired of excuses. This population hasn`t suddenly landed in the last hour, there has been enough time and there is enough money to plan for it.There is a lack of civic and political will. If people are happy to live in muck, why should politicians care?

Re: # 46
Well Rahul my city is not entirely fictional. It depends on you. You can`t go in looking for the best city to live in. It isn`t there. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Depends on your level of comfort.

Re: # 38

NB,

Well, the CPM chief minister and the Congress ex-mayor seemingly struck an
alliance to clean the city up. It was good to see them set aside their political
differences to import some structure into the city administration. However, the
new inept CPM mayor and that hysterical idiot Mamta Banerjee will probably
undo whatever little has been done.

Aside - it is beyond ridiculous to see the Bengal chief minister having to fight his
own political party on every single development issue, every goddamn step of
the way.