Pakistan Shinning I - Propoganda or Reality

Re: # 57

Your scenarios miss the most crucial factor in the equation of military vs. people of Pakistan. This factor is the fact that military is the most armed political entity in Pakistan. Its members are armed to the teeth and they have 35 years of experience of occupation of a land and subjugation of a people. This is a rule of terror and oppression thrugh gun, troture, and kidnapping. The proof is the fact that today if Musharaf or any m/c general resigns from his post and contests in an open and fair election, even the most chutiya of the politicians will defeat anyone of them hands down. As a matter of fact a door knob has a better chance of winning elections than any of these goons in uniform. This fact has proven time and again. The fact of the matter is that the propaganda factor (the propaganda about corrupt and incompetent politicians) effects only a portion of urban population; especially those who read newspaper regularly. That is probably less than 1% of the population, with the newspaper selling at Rs. 20 per piece. The rest of the population have their problems of getting their sons employed, resolve their problems with corrupt police, judiciary, bureucracy, water, senitation, mosquitos, and Dengue fever. They really don`t give a fine shit, as long as choudry sahib or malik sahib of their area is getting their things done. I think we are ina horrible vicious circle, and the only way to get out of it is through a civil war against military and downsizing it to about 25000. A peopl`es revolutionary guard would replace the bulk of these haramkhors.

The way the following scenarios pan(ned) out should explain, why the Army, as an institution, is able to dominate every other institution:

Scenario 1: (Politicians)

- Musharraf carries out a coup and kicks out Nawaz Sharif. The other political parties don`t protest. Infact they line up with the military, hoping to get into power
- Musharraf is able to put pressure on the PML and most of it breaks off and joins him
- A small portion of PPP also breaks off and joins him
- Musharraf then breaks of the mullah brigade and they support him in getting elected for five years as a President
- Musharraf is able to get the powerful MQM to support him
- The PML and MMA having lived out their usefulness, Musharraf approaches the PPP, which is now ready to do a deal with him and break away from the other political parties!

So basically every political party has been more than happy to break away from other political parties......

Scenario 2:

- Nawaz Sharif plans to kick out the sitting CJ
- The rest of the justices gang up on their own CJ and fire him!

Scenario 3:

- Musharraf suspends a sitting CJ
- The CJ is, ironically the same person who had approved Musharraf`s coup earlier
- The remaining Justices don`t complain. One of them, conveniently accepts the post of CJ
- The agree to hold a commission against the sitting CJ
- Will the Supreme Court Judges, for the nth time, fire their own Chief Justice

Scenario 4:

- Nawaz Sharif tries to break the military high command
- He fires the COAS (Musharraf), while he is in a plane
- He picks out his own favorite Lt. Gen. and appoints him as the COAS, against all traditions of the military, i.e. this Lt. Gen is not inline to be the next COAS etc.
- What do the remaining Lt. Gens. do? Do they accept the firing of their own boss? Do they divide up and support the new COAS? Or do they remain loyal to their profession and organization and resign, thereby refusing the new COAS as their boss.
- The remaining Lt. Gen. refuse to accept the new COAS. They remain loyal to their previous COAS. They do not tolerate irregular interference in their organization
- And by the way, instead of resigning to show their disapproval, they actually take over the whole country and lock up the Prime Minster!

.....The fate of the judiciary is actually in its own hands.........all the judges have to do is to rule against Musharraf and reinstate their CJ........the law is on their side......the public opinion is totally on their side........they have the authority.........

......if they however do not show loyalty to their own CJ and their profession, then I am afraid, they have no one to blame but themselves for being rolled over by the Army.......the army generals always stand by their boss, regardless of whether they like him or hate him (even if the law is not on their side).........will the judges of the supreme court have enough balls to do the same?

Re: # 54

Lahiolwilla quwwat

khoda pahaar aur nikla chooha. If we compare faujis and their civilian underlings with deposed chief justice, the later was living a life of a saint. As a matter of fact anything better than justice Irshad for Pakistanis is a blessing from God. Quit whining.

I posted it a few weeks ago on Unplugged... no one took note then... ab pata chala bachu?

ADVOCATE NAEEM BOKHARI`S LETTER TO THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF PAKISTAN


Mr. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry

Chief Justice
Supreme Court of Pakistan
Islamabad
Pakistan

My Lord:

I write this letter as an Officer of the Supreme Court of Pakistan; as an Advocate enrolled in the apex Court since 1984 and in the High
Courts since 1972; as an Attorney who has paid more income tax from his earnings in the legal profession than many of my friends,
colleagues and seniors elevated to the Bench; and as a stake-holder in the dispensation of justice, intimately and vitally interested in the functioning of the Supreme Court.


Many judges who adorn the Bench in the Supreme Court and the High Court know me over decades, as a person endowed by nature with a
pleasant disposition and acceptance of human failings. Towards the courts, my approach has always been of consistent and continuous
display of respect and humility. I bow out of conviction, not compulsion. I use the words ``My Lords``, because I want to, not because I have to. As an Attorney, I look up to the Court and want to see it on a high pedestal of dignity, compassion and justice, tempered with mercy.


I have seen my Supreme Court headed by Chief Justice Hamood-ur-Rahman, Chief Justice Muhammad Yaqub Ali, Chief Justice S. Anwar-ul-Haq, Chief Justice Mohammad Haleem and how the Court functioned under them in the 1970s/1980s. I witnessed the proceedings for the ouster of Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah, became aware that the then Prime Minister of Pakistan, Muhammad Nawaz Sharif, had `worked` on some judges of the Supreme Court and saw the physical assault on the Court. I was appalled at the manner in which Chief Justice Irshad Hasan Khan led the Supreme Court and pained at the insinuations against Justice Sheikh Riaz Ahmad, when he was the Chief Justice.


I was horrified by the establishment of a Bench of five judges constituted by Chief Justice Nazim Hussain Siddiqui to determine whether reduction in the retirement age for judges was constitutional or not. This was clearly designed to block your appointment. I was against the idea of Mr. Amirul Mulk Mengal being made the Chief Justice before you. Within the limits of my influence (which I readily admit to be very limited), I was totally for you to become the Chief Justice. Justice Javed Buttar is aware of my position, as is the Attorney General of Pakistan. The accelerated issue of the notification appointing you the Chief Justice put Justice Siddiqui`s move to rest.


I believed that you were vigorous, capable of lifting up the Supreme Court, creating an espirit-de-corps among your brother judges, restoring the dignity and grandeur of the apex Court, particularly considering the long tenure before you.

Alas this has not come about.

I am not perturbed by your insistence on protocol (despite my belief that the Chief Justice would rise in the eyes of everybody if he walked from his residence to the Supreme Court and hooters, police escort, flags is just fluff, not the substance of an office).


I am mildly amused at your desire to be presented a guard of honour in Peshawar. I am titillated by the appropriation of a Mercedes-Benz car
or is it cars, the use of the Government of the Punjab`s airplane to offer Fateha in Multan, to Sheikhupura for Fateha on a Government of the Punjab helicopter, to Hyderabad on a Government of the Sind`s plane for attending a High Court function, the huge amount spent in refurbishing the chamber and residence of the Chief Justice, the reservation for yourself of a wing in Supreme Court Judges guest house in Lahore, the permanent occupation by the Supreme Court of the official residence of the Chief Justice of Sind, who per force lives in the basement of his father`s house. As his class fellow in the Government College, Lahore, I can vouch that living in the basement will do him no harm.


I am not perturbed that Dr. Arsalaan (your son) secured 16/100 in the English paper for the Civil Services Examination, that there is a case against him in some court in Baluchistan, that from the Health Department in Baluchistan he has shifted to the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA), that he has obtained training in the Police Academy, that he reportedly drives a BMW 7-Series car, that there is a complaint against him with the National Accountability Bureau (NAB).


My grievances and protests are different.


I am perturbed that the Supreme Court should issue a clarificatory statement on his behalf. I am perturbed that Justice (Retd.) Wajihuddin Ahmed should be constrained to advise you on television that ``people who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others``. I am perturbed that the Chief Justice should summon Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman to his chambers on Dr. Arsalaan`s account.

I am appalled that you announce decisions in Court, while in the written judgment an opposite conclusion is recorded.


In the Petition for leave to appeal filed by Dr. Sher Afghan Niazi, Federal Minister for Parliamentary Affairs (in which Respondent`s Counsels were Mr. Khalid Anwar and Mr. Qadir Saeed), you refused to grant leave in open Court and yet in the written order, leave was granted to Dr. Sher Afghan Niazi.

On 15-2-2007, Mr. Fakhruddin G. Ebrahim complained that in open Court you had accepted his appeal but dismissed the same in the judgement, subsequently recorded.


If Mr. Khalid Anwar, a former Minister of Law and Parliamentary Affairs, and Mr Fakrhuddin, Senior Counsel, are treated in this manner, the fate of lesser known lawyers would certainly be far worse.

My grievances also concern the manner in which the last and highest court of appeal is dispensing justice, under your leadership.

My Lord, the dignity of lawyers is consistently being violated by you. We are treated harshly, rudely, brusquely and nastily. We are not heard. We are not allowed to present our case. There is little scope for advocacy. The words used in the Bar Room for Court No. 1 are ``the slaughter house``. We are cowed down by aggression from the Bench, led by you. All we receive from you is arrogance, aggression and belligerence. You also throw away the file, while contemptuously announcing: ``This is dismissed``.


Yet this aggression is not for everyone. When Mr. Sharifuddin Pirzada appears, your Lordship`s demeanour and appearance is not just sugar and honey. You are obsequious to the point of meekness. So apart from violating our dignity, which the Constitution commands to be inviolable, we suffer discrimination in your Court.

I am not raising the issue of verbal onslaughts and threats to Police Officers and other Civil Servants, who have the misfortune to be summoned, degraded and reminded that ``This is the Supreme Court``.

The way in which My Lord conducts proceedings is not conducive to the process of justice. In fact, it obstructs due process and constitutes contempt of the Supreme Court itself.


I am pained at the wide publicity to cases taken up by My Lord in the Supreme Court under the banner of Fundamental Rights. The proceedings before the Supreme Court can conveniently and easily be referred to the District and Sessions Judges. I am further pained by the media coverage of the Supreme Court on the recovery of a female. In the bar room, this is referred to as a ``Media Circus``.

My Lord, this communication may anger you and you are in any case prone to get angry in a flash, but do reflect upon it. Perhaps you are not cognizant of what your brother judges feel and say about you.

My Lord, before a rebellion arises among your brother judges (as in the case of Mr. Justice Sajjad Ali Shah), before the Bar stands up collectively and before the entire matter is placed before the Supreme Judicial Council, there may be time to change and make amends.

I hope you have the wisdom and courage to make these amends and restore serenity, calm, compassion, patience and justice tempered with mercy to my Supreme Court.

My Lord, we all live in the womb of time and are judged, both by the present and by history. The judgement about you, being rendered in the present, is adverse in the extreme.

Yours faithfully,


NAEEM BOKHARI

Advocate
Supreme Court of Pakistan
Islamabad, Pakistan


Source: Report Press - www.ReportPress.com – USA
http://groups.google.com/group/reportpress

Could someone please post a link or text of the reference submitted by Naeem Bokhari against chief justice.

Re: # 42

It reminds me where India was 20+ years ago with Indira Gandhi

SR#47: ``Let`s just call it like it is. The army is the most cohesive and well organised political party in the country.``

.....having gone through the, ``system`` myself, i have thought a lot about it.......i would have to say much of what you have said is correct.....however, there are certain subtleties which only i have now started realizing......

......the main reason for the, ``discipline`` in the military actually has a lot to do with age.....military officers are recruited at a very young age......when they are around 15 yrs old.....from that point onwards, they are completely isolated from the rest of the society.....very few civilians realize how isolated these future military officers are from civili society.......when i came out of this system 12 years later, and stepped into civilian society, it was as if i had ended up on mars.......this is despite the fact that during these 12 yrs, i had received an engineering degree, done a course in the usa (and travelled extensively there) and had travelled to every corner of pakistan........

.......for those who remain in the military as a long career, they remain in this isolation for decades......they mature in a society which has its own dynamics.....you will be amazed at how deep this isolation goes.........very few generals can fit, socially, into an environment that is not based in the mliitary.......they do not know how things in lahore function socially, much less in lisbon.....

.....they only way they can relate to it, is either remaining isolated from it, or dominating the civil side all together........the paf and navy do the former (as do most militaries in the world).......the army does the later....the corps commander, being the most powerful man in any major city........more powerful than the chief minister, mayor etc........

.......this isolated life, creates a great deal of loyalty to the institution and to each other.......if for no other reason then because one has no other option......the military is the only thing a military officer knows.........it is the only environment in which he can survive.........the only environemnt he has knows since the age of puberty.......the only place where he has some authority and some respect........do keep in mind that one cannot leave the military voluntarily either.......hence one is locked into somewhat of a slavery type system........

while in the military, one is taught the following thing;

- you must die for your country
- india will take over pakistan and destroy it the moment it gets a chance
- civilians are opportunistics, running after money
- civilian politicians are jerks
- military officers are the most competent in their jobs and in any job
- since military salaries are so low at lower ranks, military officers deserve the perks they get at higher ranks

.......now it is impossible to do the above in a civilian set up.....everyone has various differing points of views.......hence the lack of discipline.....in addition, there is no organization in the civilian side, which takes its recruits at the impressionable age of 15.......

.........so following is my suggestion on avoiding coups in pakistan.........stop allowing 15 year olds to be recruited into the military........make a rule that all cadets will join the military after having spent four years in a civilian college (at the age of around 22)......at that time, they will have seen enough to be beyond the brainwashing stage.......

.......there is actually around 15% or so of the military that gets recruited, after college.........the views of those officers on coups, the military itself, are strkingly different from those who were recruited at the age of 15.........however, the 15% mentiond above is taken in for temporary duties, and ends up leaving after 5 to 10 years........

....i have always respected people who stand up to authority, when, they, themselves, are under pressure......that, to me, is a true sign of character.....invariably, i have noticed, that, those, who do not stand up to such pressure, eventually become a victim of it, themselves.....

.......contrary to common belief, pakistan does actually have somewhat of an upright judicial system......i discovered this first hand during quite a few discussions with some senior politicians and individual(s) associated with the supreme court......there are, infact, only two groups in pakistan who do tend to take on the dictatorships: journalists and lawyers.....even now it is the journalists and lawyers who are on the forefront of opposing musharraf`s decisions.....

......when musharraf carried out the coup, the supreme court had to get involved......if my information is correct, around 1/3rd or more of the court was ready to oppose musharraf, including the chief justice of the time.........however, the remaining sided with musharraf as a matter of convenience........i heard, later that a supreme court judge was asked why he supported the coup.....he replied, quite honestly, asking the audience, have any of you checked on the judges who are forced to retire after coups......do you know how much difficulty they have making a living?....are any of you going to look after them?

..........now out of the judges who did support the coup, if my information is correct was a man named justice iftikhar........who later became the chief justice........and is now becoming the victim of the same system and individual (musharraf) he brought into power.....

........the moral of the story: it is always better to support your organization and remain cohesive than to be opportunistic and then, only years later, try to take a stand..........this would be good advice to the judicial commission which will rule on justice iftikhar.........they can easily rule against musharraf and set a precedence which will for the first time rock the army......or they can give in and rule against their own chief justice.........

rest assured, if they do the later, they will regret their decision a few years later.......much like chaudhry iftikhar must be regretting his decision of supporting musharraf`s coup........

SR -- you may be a great cynic -- but right now you come out as a bone tired apologist -- what happened?.....:)

do we have `good` dictators?

lets start talking about a system that relies on the people for whom it is meant to be! not something that some `good` dictator thinks is good for the masses. This is exactly what is happening already, and not the first time. Every dictator can find some people to support him and who would tell us that he is, unlike others, a `good` dictator.

Re: # 26 bulleya {``...the army`s general never ditch their chief.......politicians have tried ... unsuccessful[ly].........nawaz sharif tried ... but they stuck with musharraf...

.........unfortunately, the army, ... divides everyone........politicians, judiciary, etc...........first it used the pml, .....then it used the mma.......now, ... ppp is ready .....

.....the judiciary`s future is ... in its own hands.....it ...[was]... divided, when it ruled against its own cj, and in favor of nawaz sharif..... it can now rule against musharraf, if it wants......that would be a tipping point.........if it rules against its own cj, then i am afraid, it has no one to blame, but itself......``}

Let`s just call it like it is. The army is the most cohesive and well organised political party in the country. Its ``central committee`` (the ``board`` of generals that meets at the GHQ and decide upon such things as promotions etc.) has open and frank discussions, more so than in the central committee of most political parties. This ``central committee`` of the army is in turn ``represented`` by that ultimate circle which consists of its highest illuminaries who sit in what amounts to the ``politbureau`` of the army, the Corps Commanders Conference, and there everything is decided among equals, err, almost equals, because one of them is more equal than all the others. But the level of openness and frank dialogue that goes on (so I`ve been told reliabaly) in the army`s politbureau is virtually unknown in any of the so-called ``democratic`` political parties. The political parties, by contrast, are private fiefdoms led by a few vadera families or the new-rich industrialists. The politbureaus of these democrap parties do not change for decades. They are ruled over by dynasties. The Fauji Party, on the other hand, has a constant infusion of new leadership. Once in a while it gets choked at the top and the Big Chief stays longer than his allocated 3 years. But the limit has never exceeded 12 years -- so far. Compare that to any other political party, be it Asghar Khan, Wali Khan, Nawaz Sharif or Bhutto or some other Black Cat or Brown Dog, the story remains the same. Once they are crowned they remain at the top for life.

Furthermore, none of the so-called democracy parties has as much flexibility (in terms of upward social mobility for the average modest origins chap) as does The Fauji Party. No person of modest means and humble origins can ever have any hope of rising to the top of any of your so-called democracy parties. If you are not from the Shareef clan, or the Chaudhry clan or the Bhutto clan, all you can ever aspire to be is play a distant second-fiddle to some foreign-returned over-pampered, over-fed, lazy, listless, spoilt-brat politician-prince (or princess) from one of the ruling families. The Fauji Party, on the other hand, has its fresh batch of party apartchiks coming in from a wide cross-section of the population. These Fauji Party apartchiks then undergo 25 to thirty years of Party training and indoctrination and rise through the ranks. The few that make it to the finishing line at the top, besides being party loyalists (un-like the opportunistic civies), are also a much better sample of the population at large than are the ruling families of the civilian parties. Its not a perfect system by any stretch of the imagination, but hey, its the least of the evils we`ve got. The alternative (AS IT EXISTS PRESENTLY) is actually worse, not better.

...SR

NOTE to ALL: Please don`t bore us with high sounding verbiage like ``army is supposed to defend the borders, not meddle in politics`` or similar fairy-tale sounding BS... that may be true in other countries, but in our beloved Land of the Pure we do things differently. The Fauji Party is not a fighting force... it`s a political party and a business enterprise rolled into one. Period. Full-stop. Khalaas....