Trapped, surrounded, quarantined or just reading too much into it?

Sattar2 #293 {``Valid points - mullahs tend to label a person an Ahmadi in order to malign him. ...More often than not, this labeling is done by … as you can imagine, mullah Urstruly … thakaedar of Islam, self-appointed defender of faith. .... No wonder ummah is going to the dogs … quarantined or not … ``}

Sattar Sahib,
I agree and I am truly sorry that Ahmedi Muslims have to suffer such blatant injustices - especially the ones imposed by the nonsensical Government of Pakistan. Once again, I apologize for any misunderstanding concerning my disgust at Urstruly using malicious lies in accusing Mrs. Musharraf of being an Ahmedi Muslim. I sincerely support and openly proclaim in real life and on Chowk that Ahmedi Muslims have every right to call themselves Muslims.

I also apologize for my earnest anger against Paki Punjus. I realize that this insult could represent you, but in no way do I mean to direct this against you or other fellow-victims of the true bigots - your persecutors and mine, the self-declared lords of Islam among the Pakistanis of Punjabi persuasion. I just call them Paki Punju Paindoos out of affection and brevity. :) May Allah allow truth to prevail and evil to be exposed and disposed - quickly.
Thanks.

#290 Imperio {Also Muhajirs are totally in favour of the repartriation of Biharis.........
If Punjus can welcome 4 million afghan terrorist and r still keeping them, then y r they against these 250000 innocent pure Pakistanis who have suffered a lot??????``}

Imperio Bhai,
Amen Amen. Repatriation of our Urdu-speaking ``stranded`` Pakistanis WILL take place. The only question is whether the Government of Pakistan wants to erase the black mark it has accumulated on its face for the past 35 years. Thanks to the ``honesty`` and cooperation of border guards in BD, India, and Pakistan, many of our compatriots are finding their way to Karachi. :) In my family`s case, we consider this our MAJOR charity and cause. Thanks.

Salim (#289),

Valid points - mullahs tend to label a person an Ahmadi in order to malign him. Even tahmed has been labeled as a quadiyyani when he condemned mullahs (his nick does not help his case) … which I found quite funny.

More often than not, this labeling is done by … as you can imagine, mullah Urstruly … thakaedar of Islam, self-appointed defender of faith. And now we have abu_safwaan sahib … and he is not helping the case of the ummah either.

It is a comedy of sorts, but one with a darker side to it. No wonder ummah is going to the dogs … quarantined or not …

Imperio #288,

Janab Imperio Sahib, mere Mohajir bhai,
I appreciate the sharing of your unfortunate experience of life in Punjab for Urdu-speaking Mohajirs. I have very little knowledge about life in Punjab, having spent only a few weeks here and there in Lahore and Islamabad. What little I know about Paki Punju behavior is from the unedited sentiments of people like Tahmed32, Ali1, Atif2, Zeemax and many others here on Chowk.

One exception that I would like to emphasize is the behavior of most East Punjabis - Sikhs and Hindus from India. I find them to be quite fair, objective, fun-loving, and not at all against Urdu-speaking Mohajirs. They understand that we are not anti-Punjabi as much as we are against the oppression, avarice, bigotry, prejudice, and violence of those Paki Punjus who want to impose their hegemony over the rest of Pakistan.

So, please try not to paint all Punjab with the same brush that was blackened and shredded by the dishonest, selfish, profane, outright lying, and oppressive Paki Punju Paindoos. I enjoy the Punjabi language, especially in songs, music, and dances. I think that the Sikhs and Hindus who project Punjabi culture do so in a much more positive and attractive manner.

Having said all that, I totally agree with your complaints about the corrupt and cruel Paki Punju Police, the cowardly Paki Punju Paindoo-dominated Paki army, and the life-choking Paki Punju feudals who lord it over the entire country. I agree with you about the sacrifices made by our fellow Mohajirs in building the finest and most modern city in Pakistan. I agree with you that we should NOT place all our hopes in a single Messiah - not Altaf, not Amir Khan, and certainly not Mushy. The main positive aspect of Mushy is that he put an end to the mass killings and violence of the Paki Punju Paindoo Rangers in Karachi. Even though he is a puppet of Punjab, there is a slight soft corner in him for his people in Karachi. But we must plan on a future without Mushy. Whether Mushy stays or goes, we need to be prepared for our own salvation against one of the most brutal peoples the world has ever known. They killed many many people in East Pakistan, in Karachi, in Sindh, in Baluchistan, in Kashmir, and even in NWFP. They have killed Pakistanis all over Pakistan - except in their own Paki Punjab.

We need to develop our own broad-based secular and democratic environment with an emphasis on social justice, care for the needy, and a strict vigilance over our borders against encroachment from the north. We also need to develop and enhance friendly relations with all neighbors, including Sindhis, Baluchis, Indians, and yes, Paki Punjab - as long as the Paki Punjus stay in their province and stop looting the unarmed and defenseless Mohajirs, Sindhis, Kashmiris, Baluchis, and Pathans. Sorry, I forgot that the Pathans are somewhat armed and have taught the Paki Punjus a thing or two about warfare. May your dreams and mine come true. May Karachi and Hyderabad attain independence and its citizens prosper materially, socially, and spiritually. Ameen.

Abu (#281),

I am quite open to sharing my views with those interested in learning … but not with those who merely aim to ridicule. You are a hateful fanatic with an agenda, so I’ll digress.

So far I have responded to your criticism by drawing parallels between early Muslims from 1400 years ago and Ahmadi-Muslims of this day. You simply drop one issue and come up with another one to further your hateful agenda.

You judge Muslims with one set of criteria and Ahmadi-Muslims with another set of criteria. Our posts from #268 to #281 attest to this … and underscore your double-standard and demeaning attitude. The least you should do is to maintain an even, unbiased attitude … otherwise you are barking up the wrong tree.

And finally … nothing in Quran supports end of prophethood. It is a notion largely rooted in mistranslated and misquoted ahadith. So your 1,2,3 criteria of a Muslim (post #271) is incorrect to begin with. Good luck …

Also Muhajirs are totally in favour of the repartriation of Biharis.........
If Punjus can welcome 4 million afghan terrorist and r still keeping them, then y r they against these 250000 innocent pure Pakistanis who have suffered a lot??????

#63 from the Pakistan Shining II board, {``Salim bhai:
You have my full support for whatever it means, in showing Zero Tolerance to Mirzai label for a Quadiani Muslim or not a Quadiani Muslim first woman of the country. No fundo or jihadi should be allowed to malign or label any one he or she is not to gain some advantage. The society at large must not tolerate such nonsense.``}

Anil Bhai,
I thank you for your support in condemning ``pious`` Muslims like Urstruly. His actions in propagating false accusations against public individuals to enhance his own perverted beliefs cannot be tolerated by a just and compassionate world. If I didn`t know for sure that Mrs. Musharraf was not an Ahmedi, this liar would have had his pernicious effect on her reputation - not that there is anything wrong with being an Ahmedi Muslim. I fully support their right to be called ``Muslim`` or any other name they desire.

Urstruly`s actions are nothing new. I have heard that in the `50s in the US, Sen. Joe McCarthy and his goons tormented, persecuted, and destroyed the careers and lives of so-called ``Communists`` and leftists. The SS used the same tactics to hunt for Jews in every German who dared to oppose the Nazis. During the Spanish Inquisition, Torquemada and the Catholic Church exposed, tried, tortured, and killed innocent people accused of being Jews and Muslims secretly. They were killed and their property was confiscated by leading clergy and the Church.

If I had not known for sure that Mrs. Musharraf is absolutely NOT an Ahmedi, this liar would have succeeded in spreading falsehood about her. I am grateful to Mr. Urstruly for explaining to me how ``pious`` Muslims, who ostensibly pray five times a day, fast for a whole month a year, and believe in Allah and His Holy Prophet (PBUH), can so easily defend flying planes into tall buildings, blow up trains, train stations, offices, schools, and mosques - killing thousands of innocent men, women, and children for the sake of their religious beliefs. Perhaps Urstruly and his cohorts, named Ali1 and Atif2, can now crawl into the caves housing their cowardly leaders or find a one-way ticket to the tropical paradise in Cuba. Thanks.

Re # to my interact 205 n the comments afterwards....

First of all I want to dismiss tahmed and zeemax`s stupid rants. I know how to write on this site and my comments are much more civilized and realistic then their stupid............

I have lived in Punjab for many years. Also keep in mind that being from a middle class Urdu speaking family I have encountered so many situations in which common punjus have shown the in-borne evil in their nature.

Muhajirs have not destroyed Karachi or Pakistan, Infact they have actually developed a small city into an international cosmopolitan centre. Punjabis still discriminate a lot against Muhajirs. The Urdu speakers living in Punjab have to face their stupid rants on daily basis. One best example of Punjabi nature is of the internationally renowned terrorist Pakistan Police which is almost Punjabi dominated, whether of any province. Infact Islamabad police is also totally Punjabi....

Pakistan Army is full of Punjaibis. The Urdu speaking Army officers are in minority and they don`t have any say in national affairs. Mushy is Urdu....... but he is punjabi from his accent to his mindset... He is of no use for us, Muhajirs. He has done nothing good for us. Maybe coz he is not a real punjabi minded to shower blessings upon his ethnic group (Sharifs, Zias and others) and nor is he Sindhi (Bhuttos and their gang). That indicates that Urdu speakers the most honest and impartial in Pakistan.

Secondly I want to discuss this centuries old inferiority complex of the punjus. Right from Ranjit Singh, Who was a Sikh, they try to adopt Urdu speaking Culture and reject their own (Coz its inferior of course). Like during Sikha shahi in Punjab, Persian was the official language and not gurumukhi Punjabi.....

Similarly during British Raj, Urdu was the offical language, it shud have been gurumukhi punjabi. Why ur ancestors and u people reject ur own lingo n culture. Coz its crude, coarse and evil????

What can we argue with people who hate their own lingo n culture n try to adopt others and do a Qabza on other`s culture as if its their own. Hindi speaking hindus in India are also a victim of this punjabi syndrome. Their rights have been denied by Punju sikhs and hindus...
Their native states are BEMARU states while Indian Punjab is shining. Why?????

The greatest mistake on part of Urdu speakers was the creation of this s*** land. Our ancestors must have united with hindi speaking hindus and shud have created a common hindustani language written in Roman script. BTW, the language of common man in U.P, parts of Haryana, M.P and delhi is still more close to Urdu.

Language and culture are much more important things then religion. We, Urdu speakers are bearing the fruit of the great mistakes of our forefathers. Its not too late still. We can still do a lot of things to carve out a big niche for ourselves.

Imperio

Re: # 286,
You definitely are a phony, not a hindu, because if you were one, you wouldn`t react this way to something unrelated to hindus.

Guys

Go and read my ilog.

REF#279
[am asking you with all sincerity, tell mee who is Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani? Is he Messiah? ]
Mirza teri ma kanjari ka yaar hai.

Re: # 283

Amen

abu_safwan/sattar: thanks to both for your cordial and straight answers.

I am fully with sattar when it comes to the singling out of ahmedis as being non-muslims in pakistan - the most shameful thing I saw in my life was the burning of the textbooks/notebooks of ahmedi students by jamaatiya students in broome hostel lahore. The ahmedi students had all run away, and the jamaatiyas were burning their books. I was ashamed because I could do nothing but stand and watch, knowing that was nothing i could do.

Some years later I prepared my application form for a passport, and saw the declaration regarding ahmedism, duly noting that i did not follow mirza. I was ashamed because this I knew in my heart that this was a load of political nonsesne and religion was a personal matter and nobody else`s business. I felt sad for ahmedis who had to go through this humiliation. History will regard this practice to be at the same level of depravation as the yellow star nazis forced jews to wear.

Is ahmedism really that much different from the ``islam`` of the sunnis?? when someone looks to the hadith for answers rather than use his God-given faculties to distinguish between right and wrong, then how is that individual any different from someone who looks to some other individual who he believes has received wahi from God? s

Mr. Sattar and I have discussed this matter over the years, we have had our disagreements, sometimes quite unfriendly. Similarly, over the years on chowk I have discussed this matter with those who ignore this fundamental message of Islam, and we have had our disagreements.

So, I dont expect to convince anyone on this matter. I just thought since you two had been good enough to provide me with straight answers, I would restate my own views on this matter.

Perhaps for one minute we can ignore our differences and pray together: May God help us all, and may Allah preserve Pakistan and give our wonderful, hgospitable people the peaceful and progressive country they deserve. May Pakistanis never have to go to foreign lands in search of a better living. Amen.

We have problems but as much as India. India on verge of bloody civil war ? 50 BJP police killed by communist and so communist police police kill 15 people in bengal. It appears both countries leading for troubles?

Re: # 280
hahahahahahaha..so no..not going to enlighten us with the wisdoms of Mirza? awww i m heart broken.

Abu,

Fair enough about `them` not approaching you regarding Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

But you idiot, did I ever approach you regarding Mirza Sahib? No, I did not! So what’s your problem??

You claim to want to know if Miza Sahib was a prophet, etc. At the same time you believe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last prophet. I think your mind is made up and you are only looking to jerk people around.

Furthermore, you claim to be sincere, but your “abbay sattariya” comment suggests otherwise. Pardon me if I fail to take you seriously. Get a life, moron.