Is this Pakistan’s Democratic Revolution?

Re: # 45
I feel saddened by Manto`s over obsession with Indian leader Gandhi.
I hope he will just bypass that topic as it has not produced acrimony.
Obsession is dangerous thing as then he spends his intelluct on dead person who is gone long time ago. To blame everything on Gandhi for our miseries is just not right. It is true what is happening and will happen depends upon What is going today and at what happened in long past history. Long past history affects todays happening to very very small extent with passage of time. Even today what things happen has no relationship to jinnah and absolutely nothing to Gandhi or what they said. If you look at any such events or personolities the effects drops exponentially which is good as we can not be chained to gone by things.
Gandhi`s real contribution was he made revolution in revolution , as a practical person he found practical ways and put on strong foundation in away which has road map laid for peaceful revolutionaries , who pay him obeyance still. So he was revolutionary with knowing so called revolutions are bogus and evolution is important. Even today Pakistani citizen has put army overlord on defensive by peaceful ways or people make fast for limited time to have attentain.
I really hope manto does not waste is considerable intelluct and argumantive skills on subject and personality on dead gone by person of gone . And focus on present things than gone old things. It is almost crime to waste his time on irrelevant subject. Manto should ask ask people of different thoughts if they feel he is obsessed with Gandhi.
If he feels he is not obssessd with Gandhi then to me he is not obssessed.
Again Pande and Dasgupta company is totally wrong in thinking ``revolution `` is on. Nothing is happening and everything fine and they should pay attention to otherthings than pakistan.
Have good evening and good tommorrow.

Dear Harish mian,

I see that now you`ve lost your mind completely. It is easier to close your eyes to the racist casteist hindu fascist monster that Gandhi was.... than to defend him.

Abusing Jinnah I suppose is one way to divert attention. As history bears witness legislative contribution to your country`s constitutional evolution in the 1920s and 1930s is much more substantial than

i. Gandhi`s contribution to your independence

ii. his own contribution to Pakistan

Narrowmindedness and ignorance will stop you and others from admitting this fact now, but history has already begun to sift through Indian (and Pakistani) nationalist mythology.

It would be enough to rebutt your assertions against Jinnah that during his time Pakistani courts even ruled against him in matters pertaining to his personal property i.e. his house in Lahore requisitioned by the British Army and upheld by Pakistani courts in 1948 which has still not been returned to his heirs... but it goes without saying that Jinnah derived his authority not from the bayonets but his followers... to this day despite my fervent appeals, none of the people here who make such claims have been able to produce a single point where they`ve shown that Jinnah violated the Constitution - Government of India Act 1935... the best that they could do was to point out that Jinnah flouted the norms required of the King`s representative.

Meanwhile... I can produce quotes after quotes and books after books on Gandhi`s racism and casteism... you see therein lies the difference between your freaky claims and my claims which are based on facts.

Re: # 49

Ahmad Madani mian,

I am merely responding to the cancer clot freak who recommended the half naked Hindu fascist freak and bigot Gandhi as some sort of a model in #8.

Gandhi is the subcontinent`s original sin. As the sindhi proverb goes... you cannot cleanse the well, unless you take the dog out.

Re: # 50
What the fuck does Gandhi have to do with the current sorry state of Pakistan, which was solely Jinnah`s creation?

Re: # 50

This really explains why any tinpot dictator can rule the Pakistani masses. Leading lights of Pakistani intellectual tradition like Mantolives are too busy discussing Gandhi and Jinnah to actually do something about restoring democracy. This is why as I say in my post above, the scenario 3 is least likely to come true.

Re: # 52

No need to get abusive.

I didn`t bring the freak up. BJKumar did in #8. I am merely saying that as someone deeply involved with this constitutional movement for independence of judiciary... I find it absolutely insulting that BJkumar would recommend to us the half naked fraud Gandhi as a model...

The difference between constitutionalists agitating and rabble rousers agitating is that the constitutionalists do it only after exhausting all other avenues... while rabble rousers do it as a first option because they live for the thrill... Gandhi as well as the MMA politicians and others those who ransacked Lahore in 2006 fall in the latter category.

The name Gandhi stinks in my notrils.. I`d rather not speak about him but you`ve got to stop bringing him up as some sort of legitimate mass leader. He was a plant and he helped the British achieve their objectives. Simple.

Re: # 53

Mian... if I were not doing something about the issue, why would BBC interview me three times as the legitimate voice for all lawyers in the crisis?

Think about it. Like I said... I don`t wish to talk about Gandhi. Just don`t insult us by citing the freak as some sort of an example.

Re: # 55

Manto, let`s talk again when Musharraf is out of power

Re: # 56

As usual this is myopic... the issue at hand is not about replacing this military ruler with another dictator... or a worst one.

Our struggle was for the separation of judiciary from the executive (whoever that executive maybe)... and that has come about. Judiciary has come out the clear winner...
now it is a matter of time before an independent election commission emerges. Musharraf`s departure thus is irrelevant to the permanent nature of this revolution.

The struggle for democracy in Pakistan is people`s institutions v. institutions of the gun... and with judiciary strong... the institution of the gun is on the retreat.

ylh: please get a hold of yourself. you have an obsession about gandhi - why not channel all this passion for something more productive, e.g. what is happening in Pakistan today.

Re: # 54 Manto

further to #58: although of course by speaking out on bbc you have already done more than all of us put together on the current crisis. but still, why this obsession with the personal lifestyle etc. of an historical figure?? there are far more deserving candidates for your ridicule who are part of the current scene in pakistan.

Re: # 58

tahmed,

An unnecessarily unfair comment unexpected from you. How am I obsessed when I am merely responding. I have the right to explain my point of view don`t I? How about you ask Harish hyd to get a hold of himself instead of abusing me for expressing my point of view.

I think I am doing more than anyone else here atleast in what is going in Pakistan.


Pew Research,

Now what is that graph supposed to prove?

hunting with the hounds, running with the hare
and no doubt hoping to hunt with the hounds again if the islamists pipe-dream of ruling over pakistan ever were to become a reality.

From Dawn:

Pakistani lawyers hold new anti-Musharraf rallies ISLAMABAD, March 21 (Agencies) Thousands of lawyers and political party workers called on President Pervez Musharraf to quit Wednesday as fresh protests erupted over his removal of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, witnesses and officials said. ... The former head of Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence agency, Hamid Gul joined the protest in his military jacket. “I wore this jacket today because we are fighting the war of Pakistan`s survival,” Gul said....

Re: # 60

Which part of my criticism (especially here) deals with the Gandhi`s personal life style. His racism as well as his status as a tool in the hands of the British is very much public.

I don`t wish to speak about Gandhi... but if bjkumar posts citing Gandhi as some sort of an example for Pakistani lawyers and constitutionalists fighting for the supremacy of the constitution, I have the right to dissect and consider whether the half naked fraud is actually worth emulation ... don`t I?

#61 you can simply ignore harish_hyd. i think he just finds it amusing to bait you on this. gandhi is hardly the hero in india - where hindu extremists killed him.