Mohammad Gill May 2, 2007
#386 Posted by hamidm2 on May 11, 2007 9:14:39 am
Re: # 384
zeemax,
..... if you remember, i had not labelled ALL burqa wearing women as prostitutes - only 93.7% which i later revised to 46% ...........
...... and you have to remember that my grandma lived on gurdat singh road in quetta, which makes things a little different ........... but even then, she would go out with the hood up and when she came to visit us in pindi she would discard it completely ......... but you are right - in a way, she was ``prostituting`` herself ........ may the good lord forgive her and bless her soul - she was surrounded by men like you ............
zeemax,
..... if you remember, i had not labelled ALL burqa wearing women as prostitutes - only 93.7% which i later revised to 46% ...........
...... and you have to remember that my grandma lived on gurdat singh road in quetta, which makes things a little different ........... but even then, she would go out with the hood up and when she came to visit us in pindi she would discard it completely ......... but you are right - in a way, she was ``prostituting`` herself ........ may the good lord forgive her and bless her soul - she was surrounded by men like you ............
#385 Posted by HisExcellency on May 11, 2007 9:11:47 am
Re: #363
Agreed. But justifying an illegal action also hampers justice and rule of law. When vigilantes take law into their hand even for a noble cause, they become part of the problem instead of the solution. Those who steal themselves cannot accuse others of theft either.
It`s only natural that secular and liberal politicians will now become spokesmen for rule of law, while mullahs and generals will be seen as villains.
Agreed. But justifying an illegal action also hampers justice and rule of law. When vigilantes take law into their hand even for a noble cause, they become part of the problem instead of the solution. Those who steal themselves cannot accuse others of theft either.
It`s only natural that secular and liberal politicians will now become spokesmen for rule of law, while mullahs and generals will be seen as villains.
#384 Posted by zeemax on May 11, 2007 9:01:58 am
#378 by hamidm2,
Your dishonesty is clear in your post #1 and the ones following that where you first branded burqa wearing women as prostitutes and then backtracked when reminded your own grandmother wore one as per your stories and you had proudly described its texture and perfume. Was she a prostitute? I hope not.
You had been hoping the bunker busters will help you. They didn`t. You thought the `surge` will help you. It didn`t. You thought enlightened moderation will help you. That backfired too. Now your god-parent bLiar is leaving office and soon the other one Buck Fush will leave too. Dunno about the third one i.e. Bill O`Reilly who`ll probably be around for a bit more but probably change his tune. So what`re you counting on now? Santa Claus?
Look, apostasy is not a crime as long as you keep it to yourself and don`t go around advocating it. If you mix it further with blasphemy, well ... you know what Muslims think of that :)
Your dishonesty is clear in your post #1 and the ones following that where you first branded burqa wearing women as prostitutes and then backtracked when reminded your own grandmother wore one as per your stories and you had proudly described its texture and perfume. Was she a prostitute? I hope not.
You had been hoping the bunker busters will help you. They didn`t. You thought the `surge` will help you. It didn`t. You thought enlightened moderation will help you. That backfired too. Now your god-parent bLiar is leaving office and soon the other one Buck Fush will leave too. Dunno about the third one i.e. Bill O`Reilly who`ll probably be around for a bit more but probably change his tune. So what`re you counting on now? Santa Claus?
Look, apostasy is not a crime as long as you keep it to yourself and don`t go around advocating it. If you mix it further with blasphemy, well ... you know what Muslims think of that :)
#383 Posted by hamidm2 on May 11, 2007 8:51:35 am
Appeasers Beware and remember that the treaty of Huddabiya is considered to be precedent and justification for breaking of agreements and treaties!
When we were convinced, as we became convinced, that nothing any longer would keep the Sudetenland within the Czechoslovakian State, we urged the Czech Government as strongly as we could to agree to the cession of territory, and to agree promptly. The Czech Government, through the wisdom and courage of President Benes, accepted the advice of the French Government and ourselves. It was a hard decision for anyone who loved his country to take, but to accuse us of having by that advice betrayed the Czechoslovakian State is simply preposterous. What we did was to save her from annihilation and give her a chance of new life as a new State, which involves the loss of territory and fortifications, but may perhaps enable her to enjoy in the future and develop a national existence under a neutrality and security comparable to that which we see in Switzerland to-day. Therefore, I think the Government deserve the approval of this House for their conduct of affairs in this recent crisis which has saved Czechoslovakia from destruction and Europe from Armageddon.
#381 Posted by echoboom on May 11, 2007 8:12:32 am
#378:
I consider myself to be a `good` muslim who is just a little bit skeptical about people who claim to walk on water or talk to winged creatures ..........
Hamidm2-..muslim without Allah & prophets?...HAAN JEE
bin pahyyay gaarRee?.....haanjee!
bin aurat saarRee?..........haanjee!
bin aam kee guttlee?.......haanjee!
bin aankh kee puutlee.....haanjee!
abay yeh bachhaa, h2, kahaaN sey aayaaa?
Watch Hamidm2 fighting Islamic-Terrorism
I consider myself to be a `good` muslim who is just a little bit skeptical about people who claim to walk on water or talk to winged creatures ..........
Hamidm2-..muslim without Allah & prophets?...HAAN JEE
bin pahyyay gaarRee?.....haanjee!
bin aurat saarRee?..........haanjee!
bin aam kee guttlee?.......haanjee!
bin aankh kee puutlee.....haanjee!
abay yeh bachhaa, h2, kahaaN sey aayaaa?
Watch Hamidm2 fighting Islamic-Terrorism
#380 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2007 8:04:29 am
Re: # 378
I think `garbage recycling mussali` would be a more appropriate title. As a matter of fact you could get a kyoto award for the best recycler of the decade. For crying out loud grow out of of your recycling heap of `heeng`, `head wagging`, `walking on water`, `winged creatures`, `unwashed masses`, `I wish I was Michael jackson`, ......and list just goes on ad nauseum. You sure can do better than that.
I think `garbage recycling mussali` would be a more appropriate title. As a matter of fact you could get a kyoto award for the best recycler of the decade. For crying out loud grow out of of your recycling heap of `heeng`, `head wagging`, `walking on water`, `winged creatures`, `unwashed masses`, `I wish I was Michael jackson`, ......and list just goes on ad nauseum. You sure can do better than that.
#379 Posted by echoboom on May 11, 2007 7:51:40 am
Comin back FULL circle
Oh! the fun never stops.
``Iss chaman meiN kabaab kee boo hai
Dil-e bulbul jala diyaa kis nei?``
tr: This garden reeks of barbecued roasts
Did someone burned the bulbul`s heart?
To Liberaloons
Aanaa hee pUrRay Gaa,
Aana hee pUrRay Gaa
sUr ishque kay quadmoaN meiN
jhhukana hee pUrRay Gaa
Aana hee pUrRay Gaa.
naghma mera har saans mein ras ghol raha hai
is saans ke parday mein khuuda bole raha hai
chherRay hai agar saaz to gaana hi parRay Gaa
sar ishq ke kadamon pe jhukaana hi parRay Gaa
aana hi parRay Gaa
aana hi parRay Gaa
Move over BURQUA, Here comes BURKINI!``
Manal Omar had used her five-piece `Islamic-style` swimsuit for years - in Rio, Washington and Kuala Lumpur - and it had never brought her more than a curious glance. Then she went for a dip in Oxford ...
Friday April 20, 2007
The Guardian
One Sunday last month I went for my afternoon swim at my local David Lloyd`s fitness club wearing the Islamic-style swimsuit I have been wearing for years. The swimsuit has recently been celebrated by media outlets from Newsweek to National Geographic as an innovative way for Muslim women to become more active. As an American-Muslim woman, I have always been determined to be active without compromising my faith. I have been swimming in capital cities across the world from Rio de Janeiro to Washington DC to Kuala Lumpur, and now London. Although I get curious stares, I have never had any awkward moments when I head out for a swim.
That is, until I came to Oxford.
As I was getting ready to head home from my Sunday swim, I heard a loud voice from a man stating that he needed to speak to the manager about dress code. I picked up on it, but didn`t really give it too much thought, until I heard him yelling about ``that woman over there`` who was wearing the ``burkini``, the gist of what he was saying seemingly being that it was inappropriate. What the hell is that? The burkini? I could feel a rising indignation at the man`s audacity in singling me out in this way. Who had died and declared him the pool police? There were several lifeguards on duty who had seen me swimming there over the previous six months, and none had objected to the swimsuit. It`s been nearly a year since I moved to Oxford, and frankly, I had had enough of the anti-Muslim rhetoric in British political life. Now that I was in the middle of it, I refused to stand on the sidelines.
I walked up to the burly, middle-aged man who had been pointing at me a minute before and asked, ``Are you guys talking about me?``
He turned towards me, and waved a dismissive hand: ``This has nothing to do with you.``
``Are you talking about me? Because if you are, this has everything to do with me.``
He then confirmed he was indeed talking about me, but not talking to me. He was talking to the manager.
By this time I was irate, and the fact that he was using his dirty shoes as a pointer while he was yelling at me didn`t help the situation. ``But you have just singled me out in front of everyone, and in a voice loud enough for me to hear. How can this have nothing to do with me?``
At this point he referred to me as a ``silly little girl``, which I found amusing, considering that I am a 32-year-old, 5ft 10in, professional senior manager for an international NGO. This man was clearly a closed-minded bigot and a sexist to boot, and there wasn`t much I could do to change that.
This turned my focus of anger towards the manager. His response should have been quick and succinct: ``We have lifeguards who determine what is appropriate. If you have a concern, please do not single out one of our members, but put it in writing and we will send you an explanation.`` But he did not. Instead, he allowed this man to go on publicly challenging my choice of clothing, while publicly humiliating me.
Now, I realise that my swimsuit stands out a bit. And I know it`s quite unusual: the week before last I lost my swimsuit and I did feel a bit awkward answering the receptionist`s question - one piece or two pieces? ``Well, actually, it`s a five-piece,`` I said. The woman across the desk stared back at me in disbelief. I described it as a long wetsuit with a very short mini-dress on top. (It turned up a few days later.)
I admit, it`s different. Some people might think it`s overkill. But it`s my choice. I choose to wear the hijab in my daily life, and it has never stopped me from being active, and this Muslim swimsuit was the perfect solution. I was so excited when I saw it for sale online.
Previously, there had always been a sort of unspoken agreement between me and my fellow swimmers that my swimsuit didn`t really matter - we were all there to swim and relax. I was not forcing my swimsuit on them, and they were not forcing their choice on me. In fact, my choice of swimwear has been quite a success globally - it`s one of the bestselling items for PrimoModa.com, where I bought it. It`s made of ordinary swimsuit material and the Boston Globe recently praised it, among many other papers, in an article headlined, ``High-tech fabrics keep Muslim women in the swim.``
Yet that`s not how the journalist at the local newspaper in Oxford, the Oxford Mail, decided to approach the issue. Her article was titled ``Row over fully dressed woman in sauna``. The main interview in the article was with Ian Caldwell, the man who verbally attacked me in the lobby. There was no attempt to find out the full story. A so-called ``Muslim community leader`` called Taj Hargey called it ``political correctness gone crazy``.
At no point had the journalist contacted me. She seemed to have decided to take a similar approach to the man in the swimming pool - talking about me, not to me. As did David Lloyd`s, which had backed up his story without consulting me. At no point did they bother to inform me, a paying member, that such an article was being written. I contacted the Oxford Mail, offering them my side of the story. I never heard back.
Of course, that would have destroyed the theme of the article. Nobody in Oxford would be interested in new swimming suits with hi-tech material, but a crazy Muslim woman jumping into a pool fully clothed and potentially suffocating in the sauna was much more interesting. Since when have facts been important to journalists covering stories involving Muslims?
Needless to say, I was shocked to find out a week later that my swimming habits had caused not only a ``row``, but a huge online debate. Perhaps the most daunting part of the experience was the strong reactions from those who read the article. It was the website`s ``most viewed article`` even two weeks after the incident. The comments ranged from attacks on me (from both Muslims and non-Muslims) to full xenophobic attacks on all immigrants in Europe. At no point did any of the readers question Caldwell`s version of events; nor did the majority of readers question his motivation for highlighting the issue. There was a blind acceptance that some random Muslim woman had done something, as one commentator described it, ``a bit stupid``. British Muslims piped up in apologetic tones, and everyone else openly attacked.
My routine visit to the gym had suddenly sparked a crisis: it was all about immigration, asylum! As one person commented, ``This multicultural society is now becoming a multidirectional mess.`` Another commentator went as far as to write, ``All the time people seem to be burying their heads in the sand and allowing our once great country to be taken over by others. I hope you one day will wake up when all our beautiful churches are being demolished and mosques built in their place.`` A tad drastic for a woman taking a swim, don`t you think? (Mind you, it`s all relative. I had one email from a woman in Sweden saying she found it disgusting that people in Britain went swimming wearing any clothing at all.)
Nobody saw how ridiculous the article itself was. Nobody except for one man. His nickname on the online board was Mr Town, but I would probably have nicknamed him Mr Angel. He posted a comment explaining, ``I saw this woman swimming at DL and it was not dangerous or offensive. She wore a full-length suit, like the Aquablade they wear in the Olympics with a tabard type thing over it with a short hem bit that went into a skirt . . . This man obviously has some other motive.``
The fact that only one person responded in such a way was more traumatic than the public humiliation Caldwell had subjected me to on the morning of March 4.
It is at this point that I get a bit perplexed by what exactly the British public wants. On the one hand, they are always complaining about Muslims refusing to integrate and be part of the ``mainstream`` community. On the other hand, it`s become painfully clear that when we do come out into the mainstream, we make them uncomfortable. Granted, my swimsuit may not blend in, but the refusal by people like Caldwell to allow Muslim women to create a middle ground of interaction in the UK forces them into the extremes.
The online debate has created in me a sense of fear, and as a result I have not been back to the gym in the past month, even after assurances from the general manager at David Lloyd`s Oxford branch that his management team would do their best to ensure I had safe access. The general manager agreed with me that things had spiralled out of proportion, and after I showed him my swimsuit, not only stated that it met swimsuit standards, but that it was now being offered for purchase at all David Lloyd`s clubs throughout the UK. But Caldwell`s actions had the desired effect: I stayed at home.
Having spent my entire life in the United States, as a veiled Muslim woman I am no stranger to discrimination. In fact, as a child, I grew up in the hardcore territories of the south in the US, known as the Bible belt. Although I faced comments and questions, my personal lifestyle and space never felt invaded. In fact, the churchgoing community I lived in as a child welcomed me, and after my experience in the UK I want to go back to the local priest and kiss him on the forehead for not only preaching about respect but putting it into practice.
Looking back, what disturbed me the most about the debate was that my very identity was reduced to a cluster of cliches about Muslim women. I was painted in broad strokes as an oppressed, unstable Muslim woman. I was made invisible, an object of ridicule and debate, with no opinion or independent thoughts. The fact that I had dedicated the past 10 years to working on women`s issues on a global level, led a delegation of American women into Afghanistan in 2003, and put my life on the line in Iraq struggling for women`s constitutional rights were clearly beyond anyone`s imagination. The part of my life where I had the opportunity of meeting leading women from Queen Rania of Jordan to Hillary Clinton was erased.
When I chose to wear the headscarf nearly 15 years ago, I promised myself it would never hold me back from my two passions: travel and sport. Neither my mother nor my sister had worn the headscarf, and my family raised us with the gift of freedom of choice. To this day my sister and I enjoy the outdoors, each never giving a second thought to our choice of dress - her bikini or my ``burkini``. It strongly disturbs me that I was disregarded as an individual, and demeaned to a one-dimensional stereotype. For many of those involved in the debate, the fact that I covered my head and my body seemed to make them forget that I had a brain.
The truth of the matter is that as a Muslim woman living in the US - and I was in Washington DC on September 11 2001 - I never felt so isolated and discriminated against as I have these past few weeks in Oxford. Given that this is supposed to be one of the great seats of western civilisation, that should give British citizens something to chat about.
Burqa Vaganza – A Satirical Backlash
Oh! the fun never stops.
``Iss chaman meiN kabaab kee boo hai
Dil-e bulbul jala diyaa kis nei?``
tr: This garden reeks of barbecued roasts
Did someone burned the bulbul`s heart?
To Liberaloons
Aanaa hee pUrRay Gaa,
Aana hee pUrRay Gaa
sUr ishque kay quadmoaN meiN
jhhukana hee pUrRay Gaa
Aana hee pUrRay Gaa.
naghma mera har saans mein ras ghol raha hai
is saans ke parday mein khuuda bole raha hai
chherRay hai agar saaz to gaana hi parRay Gaa
sar ishq ke kadamon pe jhukaana hi parRay Gaa
aana hi parRay Gaa
aana hi parRay Gaa
Move over BURQUA, Here comes BURKINI!``
`I felt more welcome in the Bible belt`
Manal Omar had used her five-piece `Islamic-style` swimsuit for years - in Rio, Washington and Kuala Lumpur - and it had never brought her more than a curious glance. Then she went for a dip in Oxford ...
Friday April 20, 2007
The Guardian
![]() | ![]() Manal Omar in her Islamic swimsuit |
One Sunday last month I went for my afternoon swim at my local David Lloyd`s fitness club wearing the Islamic-style swimsuit I have been wearing for years. The swimsuit has recently been celebrated by media outlets from Newsweek to National Geographic as an innovative way for Muslim women to become more active. As an American-Muslim woman, I have always been determined to be active without compromising my faith. I have been swimming in capital cities across the world from Rio de Janeiro to Washington DC to Kuala Lumpur, and now London. Although I get curious stares, I have never had any awkward moments when I head out for a swim.
That is, until I came to Oxford.
As I was getting ready to head home from my Sunday swim, I heard a loud voice from a man stating that he needed to speak to the manager about dress code. I picked up on it, but didn`t really give it too much thought, until I heard him yelling about ``that woman over there`` who was wearing the ``burkini``, the gist of what he was saying seemingly being that it was inappropriate. What the hell is that? The burkini? I could feel a rising indignation at the man`s audacity in singling me out in this way. Who had died and declared him the pool police? There were several lifeguards on duty who had seen me swimming there over the previous six months, and none had objected to the swimsuit. It`s been nearly a year since I moved to Oxford, and frankly, I had had enough of the anti-Muslim rhetoric in British political life. Now that I was in the middle of it, I refused to stand on the sidelines.
I walked up to the burly, middle-aged man who had been pointing at me a minute before and asked, ``Are you guys talking about me?``
He turned towards me, and waved a dismissive hand: ``This has nothing to do with you.``
``Are you talking about me? Because if you are, this has everything to do with me.``
He then confirmed he was indeed talking about me, but not talking to me. He was talking to the manager.
By this time I was irate, and the fact that he was using his dirty shoes as a pointer while he was yelling at me didn`t help the situation. ``But you have just singled me out in front of everyone, and in a voice loud enough for me to hear. How can this have nothing to do with me?``
At this point he referred to me as a ``silly little girl``, which I found amusing, considering that I am a 32-year-old, 5ft 10in, professional senior manager for an international NGO. This man was clearly a closed-minded bigot and a sexist to boot, and there wasn`t much I could do to change that.
This turned my focus of anger towards the manager. His response should have been quick and succinct: ``We have lifeguards who determine what is appropriate. If you have a concern, please do not single out one of our members, but put it in writing and we will send you an explanation.`` But he did not. Instead, he allowed this man to go on publicly challenging my choice of clothing, while publicly humiliating me.
Now, I realise that my swimsuit stands out a bit. And I know it`s quite unusual: the week before last I lost my swimsuit and I did feel a bit awkward answering the receptionist`s question - one piece or two pieces? ``Well, actually, it`s a five-piece,`` I said. The woman across the desk stared back at me in disbelief. I described it as a long wetsuit with a very short mini-dress on top. (It turned up a few days later.)
I admit, it`s different. Some people might think it`s overkill. But it`s my choice. I choose to wear the hijab in my daily life, and it has never stopped me from being active, and this Muslim swimsuit was the perfect solution. I was so excited when I saw it for sale online.
Previously, there had always been a sort of unspoken agreement between me and my fellow swimmers that my swimsuit didn`t really matter - we were all there to swim and relax. I was not forcing my swimsuit on them, and they were not forcing their choice on me. In fact, my choice of swimwear has been quite a success globally - it`s one of the bestselling items for PrimoModa.com, where I bought it. It`s made of ordinary swimsuit material and the Boston Globe recently praised it, among many other papers, in an article headlined, ``High-tech fabrics keep Muslim women in the swim.``
Yet that`s not how the journalist at the local newspaper in Oxford, the Oxford Mail, decided to approach the issue. Her article was titled ``Row over fully dressed woman in sauna``. The main interview in the article was with Ian Caldwell, the man who verbally attacked me in the lobby. There was no attempt to find out the full story. A so-called ``Muslim community leader`` called Taj Hargey called it ``political correctness gone crazy``.
At no point had the journalist contacted me. She seemed to have decided to take a similar approach to the man in the swimming pool - talking about me, not to me. As did David Lloyd`s, which had backed up his story without consulting me. At no point did they bother to inform me, a paying member, that such an article was being written. I contacted the Oxford Mail, offering them my side of the story. I never heard back.
Of course, that would have destroyed the theme of the article. Nobody in Oxford would be interested in new swimming suits with hi-tech material, but a crazy Muslim woman jumping into a pool fully clothed and potentially suffocating in the sauna was much more interesting. Since when have facts been important to journalists covering stories involving Muslims?
Needless to say, I was shocked to find out a week later that my swimming habits had caused not only a ``row``, but a huge online debate. Perhaps the most daunting part of the experience was the strong reactions from those who read the article. It was the website`s ``most viewed article`` even two weeks after the incident. The comments ranged from attacks on me (from both Muslims and non-Muslims) to full xenophobic attacks on all immigrants in Europe. At no point did any of the readers question Caldwell`s version of events; nor did the majority of readers question his motivation for highlighting the issue. There was a blind acceptance that some random Muslim woman had done something, as one commentator described it, ``a bit stupid``. British Muslims piped up in apologetic tones, and everyone else openly attacked.
My routine visit to the gym had suddenly sparked a crisis: it was all about immigration, asylum! As one person commented, ``This multicultural society is now becoming a multidirectional mess.`` Another commentator went as far as to write, ``All the time people seem to be burying their heads in the sand and allowing our once great country to be taken over by others. I hope you one day will wake up when all our beautiful churches are being demolished and mosques built in their place.`` A tad drastic for a woman taking a swim, don`t you think? (Mind you, it`s all relative. I had one email from a woman in Sweden saying she found it disgusting that people in Britain went swimming wearing any clothing at all.)
Nobody saw how ridiculous the article itself was. Nobody except for one man. His nickname on the online board was Mr Town, but I would probably have nicknamed him Mr Angel. He posted a comment explaining, ``I saw this woman swimming at DL and it was not dangerous or offensive. She wore a full-length suit, like the Aquablade they wear in the Olympics with a tabard type thing over it with a short hem bit that went into a skirt . . . This man obviously has some other motive.``
The fact that only one person responded in such a way was more traumatic than the public humiliation Caldwell had subjected me to on the morning of March 4.
It is at this point that I get a bit perplexed by what exactly the British public wants. On the one hand, they are always complaining about Muslims refusing to integrate and be part of the ``mainstream`` community. On the other hand, it`s become painfully clear that when we do come out into the mainstream, we make them uncomfortable. Granted, my swimsuit may not blend in, but the refusal by people like Caldwell to allow Muslim women to create a middle ground of interaction in the UK forces them into the extremes.
The online debate has created in me a sense of fear, and as a result I have not been back to the gym in the past month, even after assurances from the general manager at David Lloyd`s Oxford branch that his management team would do their best to ensure I had safe access. The general manager agreed with me that things had spiralled out of proportion, and after I showed him my swimsuit, not only stated that it met swimsuit standards, but that it was now being offered for purchase at all David Lloyd`s clubs throughout the UK. But Caldwell`s actions had the desired effect: I stayed at home.
Having spent my entire life in the United States, as a veiled Muslim woman I am no stranger to discrimination. In fact, as a child, I grew up in the hardcore territories of the south in the US, known as the Bible belt. Although I faced comments and questions, my personal lifestyle and space never felt invaded. In fact, the churchgoing community I lived in as a child welcomed me, and after my experience in the UK I want to go back to the local priest and kiss him on the forehead for not only preaching about respect but putting it into practice.
Looking back, what disturbed me the most about the debate was that my very identity was reduced to a cluster of cliches about Muslim women. I was painted in broad strokes as an oppressed, unstable Muslim woman. I was made invisible, an object of ridicule and debate, with no opinion or independent thoughts. The fact that I had dedicated the past 10 years to working on women`s issues on a global level, led a delegation of American women into Afghanistan in 2003, and put my life on the line in Iraq struggling for women`s constitutional rights were clearly beyond anyone`s imagination. The part of my life where I had the opportunity of meeting leading women from Queen Rania of Jordan to Hillary Clinton was erased.
When I chose to wear the headscarf nearly 15 years ago, I promised myself it would never hold me back from my two passions: travel and sport. Neither my mother nor my sister had worn the headscarf, and my family raised us with the gift of freedom of choice. To this day my sister and I enjoy the outdoors, each never giving a second thought to our choice of dress - her bikini or my ``burkini``. It strongly disturbs me that I was disregarded as an individual, and demeaned to a one-dimensional stereotype. For many of those involved in the debate, the fact that I covered my head and my body seemed to make them forget that I had a brain.
The truth of the matter is that as a Muslim woman living in the US - and I was in Washington DC on September 11 2001 - I never felt so isolated and discriminated against as I have these past few weeks in Oxford. Given that this is supposed to be one of the great seats of western civilisation, that should give British citizens something to chat about.
#378 Posted by hamidm2 on May 11, 2007 7:23:09 am
Re: # 375
zeemax,
....... i really resent the title of ``apostatized enemy of Islam and Muslims`` .............. I consider myself to be a `good` muslim who is just a little bit skeptical about people who claim to walk on water or talk to winged creatures ..........
......... you sound like the little five year old boy next door who started crying when my daughter told him that santa claus did not exist ........ ”but he came last night and ate the cookies and drank the milk!” ............ my precocious five year old who wouldn’t put up with such nonsense snapped back , “why do you think your father is so fat? he ate them !” ….... the little boy, who had been her soul mate since they learned to walk, pulled her pigtail and she slapped him ........... with tears rolling down his pink cheeks, he said, “i want my pokeman cards back – i don’t want to be your friend any more” ........... she slapped him again and said, “ they are mine and santa clause does not exist”............ ” i hate you and I am never going to come to your house again “ ............ with that he stalked off sobbing inconsolably ......... but the next day he was back and they continued to be the best of friends until he moved to california – i guess he was not willing to give up chicken tikka and pink lemonade for a fat guy in a red suit .......... sometimes i wonder if he still believes in santa claus ...........
p.s. when my daughter turned seven and started loosing her teeth, she asked me to tell the tooth fairy to increase the payment to five dollars per tooth - a buck wasn`t enough
#377 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2007 7:05:20 am
Re: # 373
``Extra-ordinary rendition``, this just takes the cake:)
I also like the Punjabi police terminology ``lit-ter parade``. There is an unparalleld ``Chashni`` in the language.
``Extra-ordinary rendition``, this just takes the cake:)
I also like the Punjabi police terminology ``lit-ter parade``. There is an unparalleld ``Chashni`` in the language.
#377 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2007 7:05:21 am
Re: # 373
``Extra-ordinary rendition``, this just takes the cake:)
I also like the Punjabi police terminology ``lit-ter parade``. There is an unparalleld ``Chashni`` in the language.
``Extra-ordinary rendition``, this just takes the cake:)
I also like the Punjabi police terminology ``lit-ter parade``. There is an unparalleld ``Chashni`` in the language.
#376 Posted by zeemax on May 11, 2007 5:24:15 am
GT,
I hope TOMORROW, you and me do not regret the opportunity provided by chowk TODAY to communicate better.
April 29, 2007:The Pakistani Liberal`s dilemma
I hope TOMORROW, you and me do not regret the opportunity provided by chowk TODAY to communicate better.
April 29, 2007:The Pakistani Liberal`s dilemma
#375 Posted by zeemax on May 11, 2007 4:28:12 am
#372 by GT
Yet zee, you do not care to communicate your thoughts with composure because of: (1) laziness; (2) anger, and (3) contempt for those who you wish to communicate with.
Huh? Where did you get this idea? In fact I always have a good communication with serious interactors who are not completely Islamophobic by instinct alone, and who would not come down to abusive character assassination of iconic Muslims. Problem is such interactors are rare. You are one, Kaalchakra is another, and I even rate sadna as one because even though a bit Islamophobic, she never resorts to character assassination or abuse and usually has valid questions. Even sattar2 when he`s not in the `Issa in the Sky` mode. I have had lengthy discussions with all of the foregoing `with composure` :)
However what you say above in 1,2 & 3 is true in case of most others, and particularly the ones you name i.e. tahmed, hamidm and arjun, because the first is a dishonest fake with a forked tongue, the second is an apostatized enemy of Islam and Muslims, and the third is a cheap propagandist. I agree I have nothing but a lazy contempt for these because they are here not for any sort of understanding, but for the sole purpose of defamation and ridicule.
Anyway, I don`t remember you asking me anything recently. Did you? :)
Yet zee, you do not care to communicate your thoughts with composure because of: (1) laziness; (2) anger, and (3) contempt for those who you wish to communicate with.
Huh? Where did you get this idea? In fact I always have a good communication with serious interactors who are not completely Islamophobic by instinct alone, and who would not come down to abusive character assassination of iconic Muslims. Problem is such interactors are rare. You are one, Kaalchakra is another, and I even rate sadna as one because even though a bit Islamophobic, she never resorts to character assassination or abuse and usually has valid questions. Even sattar2 when he`s not in the `Issa in the Sky` mode. I have had lengthy discussions with all of the foregoing `with composure` :)
However what you say above in 1,2 & 3 is true in case of most others, and particularly the ones you name i.e. tahmed, hamidm and arjun, because the first is a dishonest fake with a forked tongue, the second is an apostatized enemy of Islam and Muslims, and the third is a cheap propagandist. I agree I have nothing but a lazy contempt for these because they are here not for any sort of understanding, but for the sole purpose of defamation and ridicule.
Anyway, I don`t remember you asking me anything recently. Did you? :)
#374 Posted by zeemax on May 11, 2007 4:02:53 am
#364 by kaalchakra
A minor technical clarification would be very helpful in understanding the term ``Islamic vigilantism.`` Does Islam suggest that if some Muslims holding some power see a grave wrong being committed they should (a) report the matter to (Muslim) political authorities, and (b) should nothing come of option (c), quietly accept the grave wrong, or at best carry out a peaceful jihad, assuming that Hijrat is not an option for these Muslims?
My take on the above is `no` if (b) follows (a). Resorting to (c) would be the least in Faith (remember the hadees of `If you see a wrong, stop it with your hand` etc... ?) PROVIDED the wrong is not accepted but still believed to be a wrong in heart.
There is no vigilanteism allowed in an Islamic Society/State. The condition is of-course that it MUST be Islamic. The emphasis here is to note that there cannot be an Islamic State unless it establishes an Islamic society, therefore the two terms become interchangeable and cannot be mutually exclusive. If the conditions are such, then (a) above would be applicable and any digressions would be punishable by law. If these are not such, then rebellion against the rulers would become mandatory and a virtue, let alone vigilantism.
A significant example is Imam Hussain`s rebellion against Yazid. Yazid was the Caliph and the legitimate authority, but Imam Hussain rebelled against him (at the call of the Kufis with complaints of un-Islamic ways of the Caliph) and sacrificed his entire clan (except for Zain-ul-Abideen) for which he is revered till this day. He was as much of a vigilante as the Hafsa people.
Rgds.
A minor technical clarification would be very helpful in understanding the term ``Islamic vigilantism.`` Does Islam suggest that if some Muslims holding some power see a grave wrong being committed they should (a) report the matter to (Muslim) political authorities, and (b) should nothing come of option (c), quietly accept the grave wrong, or at best carry out a peaceful jihad, assuming that Hijrat is not an option for these Muslims?
My take on the above is `no` if (b) follows (a). Resorting to (c) would be the least in Faith (remember the hadees of `If you see a wrong, stop it with your hand` etc... ?) PROVIDED the wrong is not accepted but still believed to be a wrong in heart.
There is no vigilanteism allowed in an Islamic Society/State. The condition is of-course that it MUST be Islamic. The emphasis here is to note that there cannot be an Islamic State unless it establishes an Islamic society, therefore the two terms become interchangeable and cannot be mutually exclusive. If the conditions are such, then (a) above would be applicable and any digressions would be punishable by law. If these are not such, then rebellion against the rulers would become mandatory and a virtue, let alone vigilantism.
A significant example is Imam Hussain`s rebellion against Yazid. Yazid was the Caliph and the legitimate authority, but Imam Hussain rebelled against him (at the call of the Kufis with complaints of un-Islamic ways of the Caliph) and sacrificed his entire clan (except for Zain-ul-Abideen) for which he is revered till this day. He was as much of a vigilante as the Hafsa people.
Rgds.
#373 Posted by zeemax on May 11, 2007 3:33:34 am
#363 by Urstruly Re: HisExcellency
Actually, aunty shamim was subjected to `extraordinary rendition`. That isn`t abduction ... you know ...
Actually, aunty shamim was subjected to `extraordinary rendition`. That isn`t abduction ... you know ...
#372 Posted by GT on May 10, 2007 9:16:56 pm
Zee:
You do know very well that push comes to shove I shall be with tahmed, hamid and arjun standing against you (I think I have had already mentioned this to you in a post sometime back). This does not upset me. What upsets me is the fact that, here in chowk where we can try to understand each other we refuse to do so because of our own egoes. I would rather stand with you in this fight because of your honesty. You do not hide your true self even in this anonymous forum. Yet zee, you do not care to communicate your thoughts with composure because of: (1) laziness; (2) anger, and (3) contempt for those who you wish to communicate with.
These facts may seem trivial to you as we all take a forum like chowk for granted. But, my dear friend, history teaches us a lot about abrupt changes. I hope TOMORROW, you and me do not regret the opportunity provided by chowk TODAY to communicate better.
Regards.
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