Mohammad Gill May 2, 2007
Tahmed32
Thank you dear gujjar for coming to senses and insisting that the gujar can also be `thrashed` and a gujri can even be gang raped when her family is watching without offering any resistance whatsoever. You boasted of your Islamic breeding in your previous post but do you know what Quran says about accusation of `Zina`. You talk also of gujar gheirat but have no objection to the media publicity of an alleged rape of a gujri as it is serving her vendetta and enriching and glorifying her, becoming in fact the envy of the other rape accusers.
I agree with you that gujars` was once a great nation even before the advent of Aryans. Even the god, Krishnah Gopala, who is obviously a blackish Gujar, was adopted by the conquering Aryan nation like the Mongols who had adopted Islam as it suited them well. But the question is what are they now?
:-(
tahmed,
...... i don`t know about france, but if i was kaalchakra i wouldn`t encourage these megalomaniacs ..........
echoes of munich in 1922 ............ zeemax says:
`Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Kafiroon, Munafiqoon and Murtadoon. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows - at the Lal Masjid in Islamabad, for example - as many as traffic allows. Then the Kanjars, Homosexuals and Aunty Shamims will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Kafir and Murtad in Islamabad has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Pakistan has been completely cleansed of Kafiroon, Munafiqoon and Murtadoon............. Allah O` Akbar` ``
A minor technical clarification would be very helpful in understanding the term ``Islamic vigilanteism.``
Does Islam suggest that if some Muslims holding some power see a grave wrong being committed they should (a) report the matter to (Muslim) political authorities, and (b) should nothing come of option (a), quietly accept the grave wrong, or at best carry out a peaceful jihad, assuming that Hijra is not an option for these Muslims?
Thanks for helping us all understand these important matters and motivations.
Of course it was `abduction`, what else could it be. But you have to see it in the context of society. In a law abiding society where law is evenly enforced, such act is called `abduction`, `infringement on basic and constiutional rights`, and a `criminal act`. But in a society where might is right is the law, where state institions of law enforcement and justice have failed, where obedience of law in general is considered stupidity rather than a virtue, where an extremely well armed military mafia rules, such act is called ``self-defence``. The students of Jamiah Hafsa saved the community from this social evil by taking this prostitute into ``protective custody`` and shutting down the bordello of flesh.
In principle, in the context of our society as described above, not taking such an action to protect your community, women and children would have been a criminal act instead. And looking the other way upon such social evil would have been a rebellion against God and his Prophet (pbuh).
The transcript you posted clearly indicates that Lal Masjid students were responsible for abducting Aunty Shamim. The person being quoted says Lal Masjid was approached by concerned citizens about this woman.
Who authorized Lal Masjid administration to interfere in this matter?
Are they public officials?
Why did they send students to close down Aunty Shamim`s house?
Is this not tresspassing on private property by Islamist vigilantes?
{{To avail oneself of one`s father`s most favoured kaneez is bad policy from ``secular`` as well as Islamic point of view}}
Perhaps if Shaikhu and papa Akbar were religious, they wouldn`t have kept any kaneez in the first place. Even so, Shaikhu didn`t marry the kaneez Anarkali. So which mixed marriages were you really alluding to??
Since Lal Masjid website has been banned in Pakistan by the unlightened motherate government who belives in freedom of press, here is FAQ on Lal Masji by Lal Masjid for Pakistani Muslims:

Mirror , Mirror! On the wall
PITY THE NATION*
Pity the nation that is full of beliefs
and empty of religion.
Pity the nation that wears a cloth it
does not weave,
eats a bread it does not harvest,
and drinks a wine that flows not from its
own wine-press.
Pity the nation that acclaims the bully
as hero,
and that deems the glittering conqueror
bountiful.
Pity a nation that despises a passion in
its dream,
yet submits in its awakening.
Pity the nation that raises not its voice
save when it walks in a funeral,
boasts not except among its ruins,
and will rebel not save when its neck is
laid
between the sword and the block.
Pity the nation whose statesman is a fox,
whose philosopher is a juggler,
and whose art is the art of patching and
mimicking.
Pity the nation that welcomes its new
ruler with trumpeting,
and farewells him with hooting,
only to welcome another with trumpeting
again.
Pity the nation whose sages are dumb with
years
and whose strong men are yet in the
cradle.
Pity the nation divided into into
fragments,
each fragment deeming itself a nation.
*author`s name with held
None of the 7 demolished mosques were built illegally. That`s why I had asked abu_safwaan to check his facts. All this press reporting about the madrassa trying to occupy land forcibly is propaganda and organized disinformation, while the factual position was available on the Jamia website before it was shut down, as well as clarified in all media interviews of the Ghazi brothers.
The demolition of the mosque adjoining the madrassa was the last straw which precipitated the current movement. This mosque was not in the original Islamabad masterplan but sanctioned later personally by Zia, and the Jamia has papers to prove it. CDA does not deny it either. However the sanction was revoked for road widening and notices given to the Jamia. When these notices were not honored, CDA demolished it. That`s when the girls occupied the library next door (which is in fact just one 14x12 room ... hardly a building) to protest and things took on their own momentum after that.
Only the adjoining mosque was in management and control of the Jamia. It didn`t have anything to do with the other six. They nevertheless included all demolished mosques in their demand to rebuild obviously for unselfish reasons.
The current position is that the Government has agreed to build 4 out of the seven mosques in their original locations, while 3 will be relocated. Work is continuing on the adjoining mosque and prayers will commence soon when the occupation of the `library` will end.
However, there is certainly expansion/extension by the madrassa on extra land in excess of that allotted to it, which they acknowledge and for which they have been offering to pay at market rates, but CDA doesn`t want to sell it to them. Nevertheless that is not the contentious issue at the moment. The issues are the mosques which are perfectly legitimate.
... but my feeling is it was a figure of speech....
Your feeling is quite wrong. CJ is referring to and reaffirming the preamble to the constitution (tamheed) which says exactly what he said in urdu. This preamble has been reproduced on many boards and extensively discussed recently, but you have obviously missed all that.
As for your referring to me mockingly as ``dear gujjar`` - I realize that many gujjars are considered ``low caste`` by many Pakistani ``muslims``. Rest assured, however, that that does not bother me. I dont have a need to claim to be of the Quresh khandaan or a Syed or of Arab or greek descent in order to bolster my self-esteem.
And in any case, gujjars have a proud history and have nothing to be ashamed of - they came to India in the 5th century AD, and by the 9th century were the dominant empire in india, the gurjara-pratihara empire, that fought of the invading arab armies under mohammed bin qasim, forcing the arabs to go north from sindh rather than east. They fell only when attacked on both sides, by the turkish invaders from the north and the Rashtrakutas from the south in what is now maharashtra in india. It was a gujjar (Gujjar Singh) who ruled over lahore and saved it from the marauding pathans of ahmed shah abdali. It was because gujjar troops in delhi were the first to rebel against the british in 1857 at meerut, and so were declared a mutinous tribe and stripped off their land by the british and thus pushed into the low socio-economic status that many gujjars live in. In the India-Pakistan wars, gujjars have fought bravely on both sides, earning highest military honors (vikram chakar in india, and the first nishan-e-haider in pakistan). Khem Karan (the only major indian town ever to fall to the pakistan army) was captured by a brigade led by a gujjar. I could go on, but you get the picture.
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