Fake Killings: People as Trophies

#80``Of course Bill G should do community service for that execrable bit of software they call Windoze``
I gree with you Bill Gates made his money NOT by selling skaletons AFTER stealing them.I used them but by donation not by corruption and racketeering..In case you forgot above all Bill G is doing lot of c ommunity service and not like Gujratis

In reference to HP`s bit about Indians making money I must say that according to all reports that market is also cornered by the Chinese. They ship the most organs (notably of dissidents) in the black market, and skeletons, recently on NPR there was a report of a housewife getting a batch of severed body parts meant for a research institute. These Maoist Leninists types are good banias.

Of course Modi and his cohorts should be punished for Godhra.

And so should the perpetrators of the 200+ people who died on Bombay trains etc.

For Mr.Tolkinin. I am aware of quite a few upper caste people in India who went missing during the emergency and during the communist/naxal movements.

Secondly how many countries have their jail cells peopled by a majority of folks on the upper echelons of the socio-economic ladder?
Of course Bill G should do community service for that execrable bit of software they call Windoze

Re: # 64
[Could it be that Chowk, in absence of information, is being misused by a tiny lunatic fringe from the wrong side of the border?

boy, you really are one dim tubelight.

anyway ``der aaye durust aye``]

Bongy you`ve got to see Kaal`s statement in a mirror, before you judge him. -)

Re: # 59

Partha,

>>In any case, the window grills were not broken. There was no attempt by the mob to break into the coach.<<

It`s NOT true that window bars were not broken. The II and III window cross bars were broken. Mystery to me was the first window from the door was not broken as much as they were on II and III. The plausible conclusion is that the assialants tried to hit a passsnger or a group of passengers seated at those windows. It`s ture that iron bars were used by the attackers, else it`s impossible to break the cross bars.

As for the inflammable material/powder, Shahabudding prolly didnt do his research. The material thrown with rags was a chemical or muddy oil (found in auto garages). I strongly belidve that it`s not oil but a chemical/solvent.

I have a photograph of the injuries of a survivor (who`s not a Gujarati but a UPite). This guy was travelling with his wife from UP. The injuries he`s treated were not fire burns but burns out of the solvent that fell on his forearm and thighs.

(If any Chowky want the pix, I shall send it; gimme some time to dig it our from my baggage).

#70 by tolkinin
Re:
Ditto..

Yes, in India caste and religion have their strong roots which can never be changed. No matter how much they claim to be secular, they still are unable to get rid of their caste system based on their fundamental religious beliefs.

And yes, Modi used religion as the weapon to kill innocent Muslims.......yes, Modi is criminal and needs to be punsihed......by all means.

Re: # 68

Certainly the Hindus seem to have got it all wrong.

Right from trying to call themselves secular, which they certainly are not, down to the treatment of `minorities ` which is absolutely disgraceful.

Hindus need to be Hindus and not secular.

They need to take lessons from neighbouring countries as to how minorities should be treated.

And also as to how to treat the different castes and sub-castes among themselves.

That is really very enlightening and should be pursued forthright.

Re: # 59

``Indira Gandhi was killed by a Sikh, as she had taken an anti-Sikh stand. And no one can deny that Rajiv was similarly killed for linguistic divisions.``


Am I right in thinking that you endorse these assassinations for the reasons stated by you?

My interest however is not in Mrs Gandhi`s assassinations. It is only in why you or any other person does not debate the extra-judiciary killings of her assailants.

Am I right in thinking it is because they were Sikhs and not Muslims?

Could you see these killings as murder by criminals in the executive to suit their ends and not as Hindus killing Muslims?

Re: # 66

How does HP get these kinds of pictures? It reflects on his mind....

Re: # 59

A Booker Prize brings with it a lot of fame and respectability. And to write another one is hard work....

So how do you still remain on the pedestal that you were suddenly elevated to?
Of course by becoming a `human activist`.
And in India by championing minorities...not even every one ...just certain minorities.

Yes Arundhati Roy is sharp witted and knows her own agenda well.

Has anyone heard of the other book she has written?

Thanks for posting the http://cli-ml.org/ website. It makes for chilling reading, quite similar to a jihadist or hindu extremist website. Its the same old use of abstractions, long words and ``just cause``-garbage which can be used to justify mass violence and killing of ``enemies``. And anyone who opposes them is their enemy !!!

In my mind, there is no differnce between the Hindutva of Narendra Modi and the Communistva of the CPI-ML. Both are inhumane systems of thoughts based on a selective misreading of history.

I lived thru communist violence in calcutta of the late 60s and early 70s. It was most telling to see that the extremists killed the up and rising poor the most. The bus drivers, the police constables, the post-office delivery guy, the govt clerk, the small shopkeeper. All people from simple backgrounds who had managed to get a little education and move ahead in life. This was the class enemy!! Truly disgusting, just as disgusting as Narendra Modi`s use of innocent muslim gujratis as the ``enemy``.

Vanzara arrest hope for ‘living dead’
SUJAN DUTTA

Sohrabuddin with wife Kauser Bi in front of the Taj
When police came to his house on Mogul Street in the predominantly Muslim locality of Ahmedabad’s Kalupur Panch Patti, it wasn’t very late.

“I think it was around 10 pm. There were about 10 or 15 of them and they wanted my son,” recalls Karimi Mohammed Habeeb. “I told them my son went out in the morning and I haven’t seen him since.”

Habeeb did not know his son had been picked up by the police in the morning. He says the police took him to their establishment in Shahi Bagh’s bungalow No. 15 and confined him for four days after he signed on two blank sheets.

Now, nearly four years since that incident and emboldened by the arrest of DIG D.G. Vanzara, Habeeb wants the case against his son re-opened. His son Kalim Ahmed has not been back home since that morning of April 3, 2003. He is in Sabarmati Central Jail.

The families of the accused in Prevention of Terrorism Act cases in Gujarat are now encouraged to question every action of the state police in court since the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case emerged and Vanzara was arrested.

“Sohrabuddin is dead. But what about us? We are surviving, our sons are in jail but we seem to be forgotten like we are the living dead,” says Alina Bibi Alla Rakha of house no. 2202 in Panch Kuan.

If Vanzara is sent to jail over the fake encounter case, he may be a co-inmate of people he arrested and dealt with sternly, some say brutally. But there is an apprehension among the police that Vanzara should not be sent to the same jail where some of his victims are. He may be sent to a jail in Mehsana because the Intelligence Bureau has also warned of a threat to his life.

Kalim was charged under the Prevention of Terrorism Act, repealed two years back . He stands accused of planting “tiffin bombs” in five city buses and also of being involved in killing former Gujarat minister Haren Pandya.

According to the police, Kalim was arrested in Hyderabad, was linked to a jihadi conspiracy sponsored by Pakistan’s ISI and even trained in Pakistan for 15 days. “But my son keeps telling me that he was picked up in Kalupur,” says Habeeb. “They have taken a confession from him.”

Lawyer Mukul Sinha, who is also an activist of the Jan Sangharsh Manch, says there is enough reason to doubt the veracity of confessions “extracted through third-degree torture and extra-legal methods by Vanzara and his men”.

He estimates there are 80 youths with anti-terror cases foisted on them in state jails.

Alina Bi’s son, 32-year-old Ahmed Hussain, is a maulana. He was picked up on May 10, 2003, and sent to jail after 41 days in police custody. Those 41 days, says Alina, broke him.

Mohammed Owais Abdur Rashid Machiswala’s is a similar tale. His younger brother, 30-year-old Mohammed Anas, was also picked up on April 3. “For three days,” he says, “my brother was hung upside down and beaten. Anyone will confess to anything after that,” he weeps.

#69
In India caste & religion matters .What is the reservation fiasco about is it not about caste?

How many uppercaste Brahmin killed in encounter ?But then it is lower in the socio economic order who fill up the jails ever wonder?

I haven`t quite understood why Narendra Modi alone is to blame for this.
Although I found the article unreadable, and I don`t agree with most of what I did read, I cannot agree with the killing of a person who has not been tried by court and found guilty; in fact, I don`t even agree with capital punsihment. I agree the judiciary is often corrupt as well, especially at the lower levels, and that if the police had done their job in the first place, this situation would never have arisen.
But we cannot allow India to become a police state where you shoot first and ask questions later. I do not think this has anything to do with religion or caste.

Five years on, Godhra truth still elusive...rediff news.

For Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, silence is the best move of his political game -- not to review, not to contemplate, not to reflect, and, certainly, not to regret.
Many Gujaratis have no problem in reminding you about the chronicle of communal riots since Independence in which, according to their estimation, `Hindus suffered.`

But they want you to completely forget the 2002 riots. Many people in urban Gujarat claim the 2002 riots were necessary for restoring the `balance` of distribution of social, cultural and political power in the state between the minority and majority communities.

Another aspect one notices after five years of the riots is that the sizable middle-class Hindus have a closed mind when it comes to the life of the minority community and the issues affecting the life of Muslims.

Ahmedabadis have, generally speaking, refused to accept the reality of violence and its consequences -- though they played out on the streets right within their mohallas.

rediff news.

re: HP # 63

hehehe, that WAS funny, very sad but funny.

Don`t know about now, but in the good old days (up to early nineties, that is), in UP, getting supporters of political opponents declared `dead` was a pretty common ruse during election times. And since Hindus know nothing about resurrection, those living dead must have stayed dead for years :)

And selling bones stolen from graves was not uncommon either. Man, come to think of it, India does sound like a spooky place.

---

bongdong,

Yes, it did take me a little while to figure out Mr Gatade.

But in all fairness, Chowk editorial staff has a complete right to turn the site into an (un)official mouthpiece of the Communist League of India promoting the ideology of ``Leninism and Mao Tse Tung thought,`` as Mr. Gatade himself might have written on his own party`s website.

So should Chowk editorial staff stay true to their resolution to serve as a de-facto platform for CLI-ML, we readers should respect their clear choice of their own current and future identity.

Boy! Indians really know how to make money...Fake killings, Living dead and now this...

If living dead was not enough, they are now selling skeletons in India…Someone must have written a little snippet of code to retrieve bones from the pyre in Shamshaan ghat….

Illegal `bones factory` shut down

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/04/23/india.bones.reut/

KOLKATA, India (Reuters) -- Indian police discovered a human ``bones factory`` in an eastern state on Monday and arrested six people for illegally trading in skeletons, a senior officer said.

The arrested men told police the bones were sold to medical students and used in traditional medicine, district police chief Peeyush Pandey said.

Investigators found dozens of skeletons -- treated with chemicals -- laid out to dry in the sun when they reached a river bank in Keshia, 200 kilometers (125 miles) north of Kolkata, capital of West Bengal state.

``We received complaints that several bodies were missing from graveyards and, while investigating the case, we stumbled on the secret bones factory,`` Pandey said.
The accused would take largely unburned bodies from Hindu cremation sites as well as from rivers where the dead are often disposed by the poor who cannot afford to cremate them, he said.

The men were also suspected to have dug up Muslim graves to get bones which could fetch them thousands of rupees in the black market.

Trade in human bones and skeletons is banned in India and medical students are asked to study bone structure with skeletons made of fiber or plastic.