Secularism, Positive Communalism and the Pluralist State

Your article is excellent! I am so impressed! I have been writing about religion and philosophy for 10 years now. I hope you can visit myspace.com/literarydiscussions and take a look at some of my work. I hope to read more from you.

Manto Sri,

Fart.........

Why dont u post the South African stuff on Gandhi?

Jinnah is a Donkey par excellence.

Folio mian,

Yawn.

We all know that Jamia Hafsa/Fareedia are the progeny of the same people that Gandhi unleashed into politics in order to sideline Jinnah and others. This is a historical fact... As for Gandhi`s racism against black people etc... that too is a fact that you are well aware of.

As for who did what... on this board and the other one as well several of your compatriots have admitted and even praised Congress for rejecting the Cabinet Mission Plan. It was the Congress thus which forced the partition and ``sinkhole`` of ``finances`` thus can only be traced to Nehru and Gandhi... so give them the credit for being the multiple fathers (and if not fathers then mothers) of South Asian Poverty.

Abusing Jinnah or calling him names will not hide the substantial crimes against humanity that the racist casteist Hindu fascist bigot Gandhi was responsible for.

Okhla/Zeemax,

I traced the sink hole in the finances of both India, Pakistan to MA Jinnah. The kind of money we spend on defence is mind-boggling....something running into lakhs of crores every year. If both India, Pakistan give defence expenditure a one year holiday, it would wipe-out poverty from our midst.

On global terrorism, the contribution of Pakistan/Pakistanis is substantial. If there was no Pakistan, there is no global terrorism in this world.

The countries that were created in the name of religion - Pakistan, Israel - are perpetrators of terrorim in this world. Israel does it in a limited area, whereas Pakistan, directly or indirectly, contributes this all over the world.

Therefore I hold Jinnah as the father of this poverty in Indian subcontinent and global terrorism (midwifed by the USA) in this world. If ur country is effed-up then blame Jinnah 4 that.

Okhla/Zeemax,

I traced the sink hole in the finances of both India, Pakistan to MA Jinnah. The kind of money we spend on defence is mind-boggling....something running into lakhs of crores every year. If both India, Pakistan give defence expenditure a one year holiday, it would wipe-out poverty in our midst.

On global terrorism, the contribution of Pakistan/Pakistanis is substantial. If there was no Pakistan, there is no global terrorism in this world.

The countries that were created in the name of religion - Pakistan, Israel - are perpetrators of terrorim in this world. Israel does it in limited area, whereas Pakistan, directly or indirectly, contributes this all over the world.

Therefore I hold Jinnah as the father of this poverty in Indian subcontinent and global terrorism (midwifed by the USA) in this world. If ur country is effed-up then blame Jinnah 4 that.

Manto Sri,

Like it or not, Jinnah is donkey personified. Like a typical donkey he saw only his life time and his perks in office but never foresaw the plight of `Indian Muslims` he claimed to speak for and represent. This donkey didnt foresee the future of this region.

Gandhi is peace and harmony personified. (Now u publish the South African phase of Gandhi`s life).

Jinnah Donkey sowed the seeds of hate in the minds of Indians. He gave birth to Hindu extremism which was not known in India since Parusu Rama & Pushmitra Sunga. Narendra Modi and Praveen Togadiya are the step-grandchildren of Jinnah`s politics & the snakeheads of Jamia Hafsa/Fareedia are all the love-children of Jinnah.

If extermism is the real and apparant face of Pakistan, it`s Jinnah was gave them a country but no platform to build the nation but bottomless hate for India and Hindus. There`s a proverb: Those who live by hate die by it. Let ur country die with this hate for India and Indians.

Re: # 108

VRV/Folio

To a neutral observer it would appear that it is your post that is full of hate for MAJ/Pakistan.

Why do you carry so much hate inside you??

Dear Folio mian,

``Pale in comparison... our fellow interactor Sadna``...

Some balance please. Your fellow interactor Sadna is one of the foul mouthed interactors on Chowk. Even balanced Indians like Ranjit and others recognise this fact.

My concern, on the other hand, is only her arguments and I could care less about it. Once ... seven years ago... I did try to give her a taste of her own medicine (and realised that I could never match her abuse), but since then none of my posts can be construed as personal attacks on her. You on the other hand have been abusing my family and making weird claims. I sincerely request that you stop the personal angle and stick with real arguments.

Thank you.


As for Savarkar.... allow me to quote Zafar Ali Khan`s famous couplet (Zafar Ali Khan was the right hand man of the Jinnah-hating Sir Fazli-Hussain, an Indian favorite, and the editor in chief of ``Zamindar``):

Eik heen hain Savarkar o Gandhi
Jhoot ka chalta hai ik Jhakkar, makar ki uthti hai ik Aandhi


Savarkar and Gandhi are one and the same
One a storm of lies, the other a tempest of deceit.


Yasser

Harimau,

I have already responded to the lies by Indians on the issue of direct action day on several boards.

Here is a discussion which I had with Folio`s earlier Avtar VRV... on the issue... you are welcomed to take it up there:

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00007141&channel=university%20ave

I will be happy to see you challenge the points there or any where.

#77 $ 78

I never said any body should be given resevation just b/c of Caste or Religion ..

if i used the term it meant economic And Educational backwardness...

Yasser, u have another chance to mock at me.

Pl read this one as:

What I said pale b4 what u said abt Gandhi, Nehru & our fellow Chowk interactor Sadna.

Dear Majumdar,

>>...Had MAJ been a Hindu, he would have been a wonderful leader of Hindu majority but secular India. <<<

A very imaginative point but alas, his dad became an Ismaeli and his siblings are now living in Ratnagiri, I think. Only Jinnah in his family had this streak of daring nature, though he became demented & devlish fox at senile old age.

Unlike Manto, I see both - & + points of Jinnah`s persona.

---

Dear Yasser,

Do u think what u quoted of Gandhi is of any virulence? None at all!

We have two types of Hindus 1. Gandhi 2. Godse & Savarker types. I think u like Savarker types. I still remeber HP addressing Sanatani in brotherly terms. I am not surprised!

As 4 me abusing u, there are no personal abuses here. I am just pushing the limits of banter. What I said pale b4 what u said abt Gandhi and Nehru Chown interactor Sadna. Ppl living in galss houses shud not throw stones, thus go a proverb.

As for a Parsi not becoming the Chief Minister, the focal point of ur argument is that there are imperfections in INC`s conduct but exceptions are exceptions. Isnt it? INC is not a communal party but Muslim League was.

# Folio ..``You forgot the continuity Rule``

I agree with you for practical purpose pakistan could not be islands as demonstrated by B Desh more recently


#76 by kaalchakra on May 24, 2007 8:11pm PT
And why on earth is a good man like you turning himself into a terrorist and is driving away from India? :(

Why do you conjecture that i am driving against Insia ....I have sacrificed for India and My motives are for keeping India thriving united And United ...I may not be terorist like The Maoist Naxal or other discontent Dalits but i am just giving a voice to indian muslim voice for which every one of are biased against .. You all are more fiendly to Pakistani muslims thanthere counter part in India ..Why ?
There are all the cases for Indian muslims s ther for Dalis B/C even on the basis of Economic reason they will qualify more than other majority and some Salits barring some ddiscedents of sultannaabs and elite whom you brefiend and make tool of represnting poor likedalis majority avr joe muslims in the indian street

I agee with you that rich Dait And Anybody should not be given hand out or resevation but India has not developed for its own incapbility to do so just ask the poor dalit

Sorry to have not replied to all your charges for the article has been pushed into back pages fearing non interst in discussion of it any more

HP sain,

I believe Christians were quite well represented in PAF at one point of time, right? But lately there ain`t too many non Muslims even in the PAF, if I am not mistaken.

Just for my interest, wouldn`t the Sindhis/Baloch being inhabitants of coastal provinces be there in good numbers in the Navy.

(but the Sindhi middle class still has enough money for them from Sindhi lands that they eschew the army service. )

R U suggesting that the Sindhi middle class is largely subsisting on land revenues and avoiding ALL kinds of professions/trades/businesses or just avoiding armed forces. It would be surprising if Sindhis are not well represented in professions/business etc. given how successful and well-established Sindhis in India are in most professions as well as businesses.

Regards

#98 by majumdar

Dada, I don`t want to get in this debate but there were many non muslims in pakistan air force Who got to some high ranks including air marshal.

Now you got look at this in a different way. Most of the Hindu in Pakistan are Sindhis and Sindhis in general, hindu or muslim, are not inclined to joined the army or the air force. There was only one Sindhi Air Marshal in the PAF, some Daudpota. People go to the army and Air force etc. when they need jobs badly. Some Sindhis have now started to join the army but the Sindhi middle class still has enough money for them from Sindhi lands that they eschew the army service.

Ref Mantolives #80

[Little knowledge is always dangerous... but when combined with stupidity ... it is deadly.]

Are you talking about yourself?

[The only reason why ``Bengal legislators`` voted was because Sarat and Kiran Shankar Roy were forced by Nehru to adopt the all India party line.]

After ``Direct Action Day``, there was no need for anyone to believe that any State carved out by Jinnah was going to be secular with justice for all. Ane certainly not Bangistan.

Nobody, least of all Nehru, needed to force the Bengal legislator`s hands. All the Muslim legislators voted for Pakistan and all the Hindus voted for India. It is as simple as that.