What Next After Karachi’s Carnage?

Re: # 845

Add on:

Urstruly,

The very basis of ur piety is to `enjoy` the after-life with non-stop sex but still u guys despise sex and shudder to think & talk abt it openly.

#842 by abu_safwaan

Sharia or something close to it can be implemented in a country like pakistan thru free and fair elections only, you would need a lot of hard and sincere ground work but it can happen. I personally dont think that sharia or Islam is something that can be shoved down peoples throat, you have to win hearts and minds and a lot of people are working towards that.

As Musharraf usually says, I agree 200%. Yes, a lot of people are working towards that like Dr. Israr, Tableeghi Jamaat and others. It`s just that a little militancy is good for the cause to give it all an impetus and vitality which these brothers have delivered. That`s all I`m saying :)

`Zehen Saazi` ho rahi hai ... Videos aur DVDs aur CDs circulate kar rahi hain ...

philosopher (#788),

Continuation of prophethood is the issue at hand, which I have argued, is supported by Quran. Mirza Sahib is a different issue. I hope you can keep this straight.

In #697 I explained a verse that supports continuation of prophethood. But you did not comment. Furthermore, you claim that whole Quran supports your views, but you are unable to show a single verse that supports end of prophethood. What gives?

Lastly, meaning of “seal” I have cited is based on works of non-Ahmadi writers and scholars. A few examples that I have seen are … khatam-ul-muhaqaqeen and khatam-ul-auliya. Your issue is not with Ahamdis, but with Arabic language itself. Not my problem, I am afraid.

>>Today, in the newspaper I was reading about a cosmetic procedure called ``designer vaginas`` where American and European women are increasingly getting this procedure done. In this procedure the geometry, mechanics, and hydraulics of the instrument is so altered that it appears more ``appealing``. <<<

Urstruly is a hypocrite to the core. Why does he live in the west where these things are rampant?

Secondly, is it any different from hair cutting, beard trimming?

Re: # 841

Yes Yes..how did i miss that! Thank you again for sprinkling the `Logic dust` over us for the millionth time. I have been telling people to just take Mirza sahab`s word for it, but these bustards are 2 rational, i am on ur side buddy, i have utmost sympathy and compassion, i know you would give the proof if you had it cause you are generous like that, its not ur fault, u n me togather i am sure will be able to make these people realize that no proof is needed for Mirza sahab`s prohpethood especially since there is none and we all should be civil enough to just join the choir. keep up the sane work.

#832 by tahmed32

.... just thank your stars the rest of the world carries islamists like a horse carries fleas on its back.....

Or perhaps, like an ant up an elephant`s nose?

Think ....

Re: # 832

I am a fan of the Khilafah of Umer Bin Al Khatab RAW and Umer bin abdul Aziz Rahim ullah Allayh. I know that there is a differnce between khilafah and mullokiyat and unfortunately we have seen the latter more often and thats what gives you psudo-intellectuals justified material to harp on Islam. Things can and will change for better and my submission is that Sharia or something close to it can be implemented in a country like pakistan thru free and fair elections only, you would need a lot of hard and sincere ground work but it can happen. I personally dont think that sharia or Islam is something that can be shoved down peoples throat, you have to win hearts and minds and a lot of people are working towards that. Sharabii orr heera mandi ki `adabi or saqafati` sargarmiyoon say mustafeed honay wallay hazrat shayad qabz mein mubtila hojayein..but then again its about respecting the the whims and desires of the majority within certain guidelines.

Abu_safwaan (#785 ... and now also #836 ...),

Once again you are confusing two separate issues: My criticism of your reasoning should not be taken as lack of faith in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) on my part. Try to keep this straight.

- The proof of prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) you cited, remains rejected by 80% of the people. This is why I asked you earlier … what good is your proof? How do you define proof? Do it for the kids, Sahib, they’ll be grateful to you forever. Please share with us pearls of your wisdom.

- And before you get too excited about Muslim-conversion statistics, consider the fact that even today, after 1400 years, Islam remains rejected by 80% of the people at large. Furthermore, Christians outnumber Muslims by a margin of 2:1. Is this enough statistics for you?

Your comments about Mirza sahib are irrelevant, incorrect, and speculative, and come across as propaganda. I think you are wasting your time.

.... like the Australian Imam Sheikh Hilali said .. `uncovered meat` that attracts cats ...`

Or shamimists in this instance ...

#831 by tahmed32,

Hmmm ... now you seem to be settling down in permanent dementia ..

[[822 by tahmed32 on May 25, 2007 7:59am PT
#820 hamidm: i have been avoiding this stinking sub-thread that you refer to, but it is indeed sad if these individuals getting their jollies writing lengthy essays about a disgusting act of female harrassment are among those considered ``educated``. ]]]]

Re: tahmed sahib
Why you avoid discussing that video? well that`s your own prerogative to choose whatever you wish.....

But, trust me I have nothing against any leader.....they are not jolly essays....there is more to that.....and if you wish you can choose to read and may be you`ll find out my reasoning....

That female is not just a female, that female is a prominent Pakistani leader and that molester is not just a male , he is a leader of Pakistan.........

I am just asking questions and comparing that situation to Hafsa girls burqas......

Infact I felt sadness on such a violent act........

Sheree rehman is not a poor oppressed next door woman, she is an activist and she is famous for her critics and for gender rights........she took part in hudoo ordinance as well.

If, she is all that blah, blah, blah...then why she took that harrassement with smile?

She is role model........and she is answerable to all the Pakistani women.....

But, again I am not here to convince you for any matter...I respect your choice of not discussing this matter.

regards

#827 by abu_safwaan,

You`re being very presumptive about these brothers. They don`t want to establish any Sharia themselves, but insist on the existing Government itself establishing `only` the one which is `already` in the constitution and was supposed to have been established long ago. Their demand is `implementation`, not `revolution`. This is important which you must understand.

They have said many times if the `existing` government does that, they will hand over not only the library but Hafsa itself as well as Lal Masjid to the Government.

They maintain they are just ``Allah Key Sipahi``, and I believe them. Their deeds prove it.

Re: # 835

So Patrick as you can onbviously see from Sattar`s ``Bucket of Proof`` that in fact its your fault that you dont JUST buy it from mirza sahab. What more do you morons want, sattar bhai said it, his abbo jee told you, yahan tak kayy mirza ghulam qadiyani himself said that he was a prophet, i mean what more proof do you want? I tell you there is no respite for logic in this world.

PM (#767)

I have maintained my position on basis of teachings of Quran. So I’ll respond accordingly.

Divine mandate

Allah discharges prophets with the mission to make efforts to reform people. These are men of high, noble character who at times go through extreme hardships to fulfill their responsibilities. They are recipient of revelations from Allah Almighty, much more than an ordinary person. They do receive divine help, guidance, and signs along the course of their mission (not to be confused with “physical miracles”).

This help may be in the form of Allah softening the hearts of the enemies, or extraordinary patience given to the followers, etc. The guidance may be in form of revelations regarding future events of significance. And signs may be fulfillment of such events, and more.

The overall impact of the factors mentioned above makes prophets much more effective than other people you mentioned.

Reading god’s mind

Asking “if Allah raised prophets in the past, then why not in the future” … is not the same as trying to read god’s mind. It is a reasonable inquiry, based upon the message of Quran itself.

One does not need to read the mind of god; for a Muslim, relevant information is given in Quran itself. Quran lists more than 100 names and attributes of Allah. It calls itself “The Discriminator”, “The Criterion”.

Issue I have raised is that … if Quran declares itself the perfect, complete book, it should not have left out an issue as significant as end of prophethood. A change as big as this one should have been mentioned in several places, emphatically. But that is not the case at all.

Fringes of rationality

This is a larger discussion, which I would hesitate to get into for now. As I pointed out earlier (#784), crux of the matter lies not in prophethood, but in using the same yardstick to judge the faith of others, as one’s own faith.

If divine revelations mark end of rationality, then let’s declare Adam, Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, Mirza Shiab … as fringe lunatics. I have no problem accepting this as a valid answer from an atheist or a skeptic.

Being born with a faith

This is largely a valid point … in that most of us live and believe the faith we are born with. This however does not nullify the fact that all else being equal, truth, over the long run, would tend to have an edge over falsehood (this is a general point, not to be taken as a suggestion that my convictions are truer then those of others).

Once again, my main issue is lack of even-handedness in judging one’s own faith versus that of someone else.

Prophethood of Mirza Sahib

I have not responded to your question that why should one accept Mirza Sahib as a prophet.

- If you ask this question as a Muslim, then you must first tell me: why a person, who lived 2000 years ago, should have accepted Jesus as a prophet? (This question is open to all fellow beraders who have questioned me on Mirza Sahib … think of it as a brain teaser).

- If you ask this question as a non-Muslim, then the question should be about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and not about Mirza Sahib.

- If you ask this question as an atheist, then arguably the issue involves belief in god, and not necessarily belief in prophets.

I hope this answers some of your inquiries …

Chowk staff
Please, BAN rf786 for abusing me and zeemax sahib for no reason at all. This interactor has been constantly cyber harrassing me......thanks

here is the latest proof.

[[[[#815 by rf786 on May 25, 2007 7:25am PT
Re: # 808

Zeemax sahib,

Naheen bhai, aisee tho koi baath naheen, then again in my dictionary it really doesnt matter if she is related or not, what is wrong is wrong.

The way u and your pet poodle have violated Mrs Sherry Rehman is no different from that PPP Jiyala groping pervert. He may have physically abused her, u and your rabbies infested poodle bi tch are doing it here, as they say in your mind and writing. ]]]]

[[#805 by zeemax on May 25, 2007 1:18am PT
Zeena,

If this woman had any shame or honour, she would have slapped this guy right there.

Or if she didn`t want to make a fuss on the street, she should have immediately left the rally and resigned from this party where senior male leaders act like subway molesters.]]]]

Excellent!!!

Very true.....or, she should have pressed the charges against this perert/molester......If, Pakistani role models will surrender infront of such molestation for their own gains, then how can they stand up for the rights of poor and oppressd people of Pakistan?

#813 Urstruly

I hear you....and to my surprise I have to agree with you on this post......I am convinced.....but, again why such perversion by so called Prominent Pakistani leaders? shocked......such frustration, I have never seeen in USA....nobody does that in public and specially leaders......tsk,tsk,tsk......

And these leaders are now answerable infront of the whole nation..........if, they have a little bit of shame left(which they don`t), they should resign.....