Encounters With Depression

#30 Hamidm2

Sir, I am unsure about those two gentlemen whose names you propose for that list - but I do feel that most chowk people themselves qualify to be on the list (without the ``great men`` qualifier, of course) - for actually hanging around this site and having convinced themselves that they are actually accomplishing something worthwhile. :)

The exceptions of course are you and I! :) :)

And if you disagree with me, then I can always drop you off the list. :)

Now seriously,

I earlier stated that this is an extremely well-written article - which made Mr. Delhiwallah burn in anger of jealousy. (We won`t mention Mumbaiya people!)

But I really meant it. Its importance can not be overstated.

Depression is a widespread malady - especially among the Amrikkan (and perhaps other overseas) desi communities. Partly so because we desis are saddled with a lot of crap since early childhood and are unable to shed it - we sometimes even take pride in that baggage. We would rather go through the whole life carrying that crap than lift even one finger to address it - or even acknowledge it.

Problem is even worse for desi ladies - because of obvious reasons.

Problem is even worse for the children of immigrants - they carry all their parents` loads plus the load of growing up in a racially ``different`` society and all its associated ``blessings``.

I am aware of two suicide cases among people that I have known. One was in India and one right here in my neighborhood.

Depression is an ``equal opportunity`` killer!

BJ,

I think I took enough time to respond;-)

OK, Moses may not be a stammerer. I always `mistook` stammering with lack of self-esteem OR fear complex, otherwise there`s no physiological deformity!

assADI,

Ego never comes in my way when it comes to learning.

U seem 2 suggest that the US implanted a social structure in Japan and then, bingo suicide rates skyrocketed there? Is this another attmept of u making ass of urself, my dear embedded identity (i.e assADI)?

Re: # 29

bjkumar,

......... how about adding these two to your list of `great men with mental disorders`:

gandhi ji : a fear of clothing and a penchant for young nieces

mo of mecca: talked to an invisible friend named gabby

.............. thank you for maintaing this list - i will try to add to it whenever i can ......

#25 Folio

Folio, not so fast, buddy!

First, the way I understand it, stammering (stuttering) is a speech disorder – not a mental disorder and it has nothing to do with depression.

Second, unless you are as old as Moses and knew him personally, there is no proof that he indeed stammered – something that you seem to accept as an article of faith.

No dice!

Sure, there are people who have published research papers guessing that he probably stammered – and in “proof” they cite the following quotation from Moses:

“I am not a man of words ... for I am of slow speech, and of a slow tongue”, Moses states, and later he pleads “... I am of uncircumcised lips, and how shall Pharaoh hearken unto me”.

Then that researcher goes on to say: “Most authorities consider these quotations to mean that he stammered.”

Utterly ludicrous, I say! That kind of logic is highly specious and only acceptable by the likes of the Hamidm2!

After all, just because something is uncircumcised, it is the height of foolishness to assume that it does not work right!

hamid writes <<<...... what about the bushmen of the kalahari desert and the eskimoes who suffer from depression ?.......... are they depressed because of colonialism ? >>>

A common tactic of idiots is to invent straw men in order to dismantle arguments that were never made. The bushmen of the kalahari do not suffer ``Depression`` of the kind the doctor is talking about, their depression and persistent anxiety is due to breaking the rules of their society, what Durkheim would define as mechanical solidarity, where individual and collective conscience is in congruence and hence the incidence of it is much lower, the depression of those living in modern societies is due to alienation, where an alien structure imposes itself on individuals, an organic solidarity that seperates man from the products of his hands from others and from himself, his value determined only on how he can be used. As is well documented, the ``depression and anxiety` of traditional societies as the American Indians were due to outside invaders and colonizers or due to natural catastrophies that threatened their ways of life and hence their values. Regarding post-partum depression, birth might predispose women towards such feelings but only one in ten suffer from it so there are reasons other than biology at work, but you, ignoramus neither have any data nor any clue about anything, you merely want to discredit things that have been quite thoroughly researched...

Re: # 26

masadi,

...... what about the bushmen of the kalahari desert and the eskimoes who suffer from depression ?.......... are they depressed because of colonialism ? ........what about postpartum depression and what about all those women in pakistan who routinely commit suicide - are they the victims of the american elite ?

.......... masadi, you really need to get some psychiatric help ....... dr sohail, please help him .....

folio writes <<< Do u think that the non-existent `social structure` is responsible 4 suicides in Japan as well? >>>

Fool, Japan`s social structure is foreign implanted, read a little about what happened there, to their social tradition and their way of life, as a result of defeat in WW@ and then under US occupation post WW2. If you are unaware of the reality of ``social structure`` , at least spare showing off your lack of knowledge like a damn fool and learn something...

You missed Moses, BJ. Moses was a stammerer.

Ppl who are conformists cant think out of the box. U need eccentricity to think differently. This is what Royal Council of Surgeons(?) said abt creative ppl.

There have been many great men with mental disorder, most of whom overcame their challenges by themselves, some could not. One wonders what these folks would have been like WITH medical intervention – even better than they turned out to be or would they have been just another average Joe?!

Winston Churchill

Churchill lived a long life and one probably richer in experience than most in the course of human history. His biography runs to some eight volumes. It is well known that he suffered throughout his life from what is now known as bipolar mood disorder - what used to be called manic-depressive disorder.

Abraham Lincoln

The questions concerning the fact that Lincoln was overcome by anxiety and depression are numerous. Michael Burlingame remarks, in his book The Inner World of Abraham Lincoln, that the death of Lincolns mother was responsible for his life-long tendency to melancholy. It has also been stated that his depression stemmed from a series of childhood losses. These deficits may have included the death of his newborn younger brother (Lincoln was only three years old at the time); the death of his mother, aunt, and uncle when he was only nine years old; and the passing away of his sister in childbirth when he was eighteen years of age. According to psychologists, bereavement in childhood can be one of the most significant factors in the development of depressive illness in later life.

Isaac Newton

Issac Newton , the man who was the pioneer of the law of gravitation and the law of motion suffered from a nervous breakdown compelling him to retire from research, but that didn`t deter the genius, and he went on to be the Master of the Royal Mint, President of the Royal Society and attaining Knighthood.

Ludwig Van Beethoven

Beethoven, one of the greatest composers of all times suffered from manic depression. He once wrote ``As for me, ``I am in despair so often and would like to end my life.``

Vincent Van Gogh

Van Gogh was an indisputable genius, utterly, indisputably ignored. He created hundreds of bold, brilliant paintings; only one was sold during his lifetime. He suffered from Paranoid Schizophrenia and ultimately committed suicide in 1890.

(The above information is from the website http://www.twilightbridge.com/icons1/iconshomepage.htm)

Re: # 21
dear shandana (in good faith)....in my opinion there is a difference between use and abuse

of medications. im my practice 80% of patients are treated with individual, marital, family

and group therapy to understand their Depression and take effective steps to improve their

lifestyle. But for those 20& who are acutely depressed or acutely manic.....when there is

chemical imbalance...one needs to control symptoms before they can sit in the office for an

hour to discuss their problems seriously. These days I am treating three people who are in

acute psychosis

....one woman is manic state started going to bars and getting drunk and promiscuous. her

children were embarrassed and her husband was going to divorce her. Now that she is

treated with Lithium and other antipsychotic medications ...she is stable. The loving wife

and mother they knew is back.

....the other woman got manic, and started spending money. Now she is in 25000 debt and

her husband who is very sympathetic is thinking of bankruptcy. She used her Visa,

Mastercard and American Express to maximum. She is refusing to take medications or go

to hospital and the whole family is in a crisis.

...one man in Depressed state sold his 150, 000 dollar house for 50, 000. Now I have

contacted his lawyer to discuss that when he sold the house he was psychotic and his

signature was not valid.

I am just quoting some examples to show you that when people suffer from mental illness

they do self destructive things and need to be treated and protected. Once their psychosis

is in control, they make healthy and wise choices.

I agree with you that medications need to be used as the last step not as the first step.

By the way Lithium is like salt, it does not produce sedation and does not make people

zombies.

These medications....antipsychotics...chlorpromazine was the first one discovered in 1952

and Lithium Carbonate in 1971 are some of the great discoveries of medical science.

These medications helped us treat people and help them live in community with their

families.

One Pshchiatric hospital that I worked in had 1000 patients in 1900.....and many of them

committed suicide....In 2000 the same hospital had 400 patients because others were

successfully treated with

psychotherapy

medications

education

family support

and rehabilitation.

Psychotherapy and education is the first step. But wise use of medications expecially in

Manic Depressive Illness is an integral part of treatment.

I have many patients who needed Anti-depressents for a few months and once they

stabilized we gradually decreased the dose and finally stopped.

For me academic discussions are different than listening to painful stories of people who

suffer and people who look after them. Mental health professionals not only help patients

but also their families who also suffer.....sincerely sohail

masadi,

............ i think that finally you might be on to something ! .......... i have always maintained that psychiatry and psychology are not real science and belong in the same category as sociology and palmistry ......... maybe you and i should petition the medical associations and universities to stop teaching this nonsense ........... having said that, i think you would benefit from prozac and a lobotomy.......

dr sohail,

che brings up an interesting point, that of self medication via drugs and alcohol. this is by far a more popular alternative for people diagnosed with a disorder in pakistan than medication. and it works too, at least for a while :)

my problem with medication, which you at one point suggest is an essential part of treating those with bipolar disorder, is that it generally doesn`t. work, that is, unless you get put on lithium, which essentially makes you a zombie. a flatline is not an attractive or pleasant state of being, and medication prescribed is often so that people around you find you easier to handle, it doesn`t really help the sufferer in the long term.

i have come to believe medicating people at the drop of a hat is a bad thing. if the person is seriously incapacitated or non functional then ok, but i think people with certain tendencies also have inbuilt coping mechanisms to deal with those tendencies, a lot of them tend to be creative and exercising their creative muscles often does more to alleviate symptoms than a cocktail of crap drugs manufactured by giant pharmaceuticals. how can you decide there is a chemical imbalance in someones brain when we dont really understand the human brain? and what is the chemical imbalance is part of a longer process that gets nipped in the bud by an influx of anti depressants, anti psychotics, anti nausea pills, appetite stimulants when the medications gets too much etc etc? and isn`t it true that the current method of choice for treating bipolar people is talk therapy?


you are right to suggest that there is a lack of understanding and awareness in society about disorders like bipolar, i think in pakistan that lack of understanding and awareness extends to the psychiatrits too.

in good faith,
shandana

#17 Delhiwala

Yaar, don`t feel jealous! :) :)

Dear Dr. Sohail,

I have read your exchange with masadi and it is my sincere suggestion to you to not to waste time with him. He has no clue as to what you have written. In his paranoia, masadi wants to blame everything on USA, even the depression of an individual. Masadi is one of those people who want to frame everything in sociopolitical context even if it is biochemical in nature. Fortunately for him, C. Wright Mills existed otherwise masadi wouldn’t have known what to think.

I have seen so many examples of people growing up and living under same sociopolitical setup and parameters and yet some show the symptoms of depression and others don’t. More interestingly, the ones who show the symptoms usually have a family history of depression. That is indicative enough that depression of a certain kind has biochemical sources rather than sociopolitical.

I think you can find better ways to spend your time than responding to the paranoids. And, by the way, do write something in future on the topic of paranoia as well.

Rafi

I see a box, I see it clear, it is my day, my night, my dear.
And when the darkness fades away, it takes with it my night, my day.

come share my meal, some share my space, ask not for talk or watch my face
lest you see who you would be too, if in this box your shoe tripped you.

- wink -

Re: # 14
BeejKumar is getting hottie on drsohail now...homo sala.