Month of the Gun

Re: # 151

This man can only take Pakistan back to the stone ages ... thank God he is too stupid to make any real difference in Politics.

Only this man can save Pakistan...Listen (part111)

Only this man can save pakistan..Listen(part11)

Only this man can save pakistan..Listen
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5930487182973309034&q=5930487182973309034

Nadeem F. Paracha: ``If the MQM is fascist, then I am afraid so is at least 70% of Karachi`s population.``

It seems Mr.Paracha, who prides himself on his Marxist roots, has never heard of the Gramscian concept of hegemony, where the dominant class or group `not only justifies and maintains its dominance, but manages to win the active consent of those over whom it rules, by presenting its interests as the interests of all.`

The electoral victory of a certain party does not necessitate its ideological consonance with its electorate. It could just as well mean that it has managed to convince its electorate, mostly through rhetorical inculcation of a false consciousness (call it the persecution complex or paranoia), that it operates to their interests.

The comments of people like cliftonbridge (`Many people in karachi feel that MQM is the only thing stopping karachi from being kandahar``) reinforce this point..The MQM has succeeded in presenting itself to many as the only progressive force in Sindh..even if it does have a heinous terroristic record..I lived in Karachi during the worst years of MQM-related violence and have witnessed the ideologues of the mafia capitalise on the destitution of the structurally oppressed and fuel a tradition of regressive hatred..

One can only hope that the current crisis will serve to shatter, at the very least, the illusion of the `progressiveness` of an ethno-fascist mafia as the only bulwark against radical extremist Islam...(are those really the only alternatives we have left?)

Then again, thats just me..

aquaris #146 {`` Does the CJ of a country, or for that matter, any person of a country, has the right to visit any city of this so called god forsaken country....?? `` ``}

Tahmed32 #143 {``The issue is that on May 12 mqm ghoondas suppressed the right to peaceful assembly and attacked and killed people in the process.``}

Gentlemen,
You are both confusing the real issue. Does any jurisdiction have a right to bar certain people from visiting an area if there presence has the potential for inciting violence and rioting?
Even in the US, the federal government can bar people from entering the US. The Governor of NY State can stop Americans from coming to NY and even the Mayor of NYC can prohibit ``peaceful`` assembly if that assembly is not authorized, people are armed with guns and automatics weapons while assembling ``peacefully.``
The Sindh government had told the CJ not to come to Sindh. The PPI, PPP, ANP, JI demonstrators were anything but ``peaceful,`` as evidenced by their own success in shooting a dozen or more MQM ``ghoondas.``
Please be a bit more rational. Not a glass being broken in Abbotabad or Lahore is no excuse for justifyiing inicindiary speeches in Karachi - it`s a separate city with its own problems.
It`s like saying that there should be no protection for women who get gang-raped in Punjab because after all there are plenty of women in Karachi, and they don`t get gang-raped - except when Punjabi Rangers are in town.

#137

The issue is not , whether some party has a mandate or not.

the issue is more serious, and that is.

`` Does the CJ of a country, or for that matter, any person of a country, has the right to visit any city of this so called god forsaken country....?? ``

If This Party has a electoral mandate, and in their own claims, absolute mandate, then whats the ` Paranoia ``.....??.....??

On a side note, this `` CJ `` has continued to visit every nook and corner of the country,
again a 15 hours marathon to visit `` Abbotabad ``....

and so far, nor a single Glass has been broken, anywhere in the country....!!

Except, in Karachi, where the insecure, paranoid response, of a FASCIST party based of CULT worship, rather then anything else, killing 42 People....!!

...and the worse part is, the paranoid response , want to JUSTIFY the Killings...!!

Amazing, how low can you get...!!...??

``but at least I got to do my usual sincere bak-bak,`` lol.
ana,its always a pleasure.

#139 zeemax: you write ``the very democrats who`re clamoring for democracy now hanged one elected PM and exiled two``

General Zia hanged Bhutto and General Musharraf exiled Nawaz Sharif and Benazir dares not come back to face criminal charges. And in case of Bhutto, it was the religious parties that started the street demonstrations claiming the elections were rigged that gave Zia the pretext to take over. So, religious parties, not ``democrats`` (i.e. the mainstream parties).

you write ``democracy is finished in this country for good. ``

Time will tell. I wont make any counter-predictions since I am not capable of seeing the future so well as you do, but I can say for sure that there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic (the great positive example provided by India next door, the increasing middle class, the major strides made by democracies in the past 100 years).

you write ``Still, they (elected prime ministers) performed to the best of their ability. All were patriotic Pakistanis. ``

Their abilities were obviously limited. And remember my point - even the elected prime ministers in Pakistan demonstrated a lack of respect for democratic behavior that almost rivalled that of the generals. Look at India - Lal Bahadur Shastri was a 5 foot man that Pakistanis used to joke about, compared to the 6 foot something Ayub Khan. Yet, it is Shastri who in retrospect was the giant, and it was Ayub who was the midget.

So, your post does not really provide an answer to the question I had - why are we Pakistanis cursed with self-important individuals who have no respect for democratic norms, no respect for their fellow citizens? Perhaps hamidm or someone else smarter than me knows. All I can do is shake my head and say ``yeh ganga ram ki samajh may na aaai``. :-(

#137 cliftonbridge: ``why dont people accept MQM`s huge democratic mandate in karachi? ``

This is not the issue. The issue is that on May 12 mqm ghoondas suppressed the right to peaceful assembly and attacked and killed people in the process. No democratic mandate is large enough to give any party the right to do this.

You are right that mqm is not alone in its fascism, but far from excusing it, it makes it all the more damaging to all Pakistanis, muhajirs and non-muhajirs. Far more dangerous than the ethnic fascism of mqm are the forces of islamic fascism in Pakistan. Fascism and militarism go hand in hand, and the best antidote to fascism is assertion of the basic rights of all individuals.

Ultimately, all Pakistanis - military and non-military, muhajir and non-muhajir - will be better off if the basic rights to peaceful assembly and free speech and habeas corpus and the right to vote for public officials (including the President) are respected in Pakistan. There are no doubt many members of mqm and of the religious parties who are fine human beings and well-meaning people: but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Or as the urdu saying goes: bewaqoof dost say aqalmand dushman behtar hai.

#131 Zeemax {``That`s why I advocate that all it needs for MQM to be completely eliminated is a few RPG`s up their dark behinds``}

Zee,
That is exactly the kind of boasting that causes earthquakes that cause mudslides that cause even the lightest of behinds to turn dark. Allah doesn`t like this kind of talk.. but you already know that being a wonderful momin of a Muslim. :)

Cliftonbridge #137 {``...but if democracy is such a good thing then why dont people accept MQM`s huge democratic mandate in karachi? does that not sound like like hypocracy?
...untill imran finds his balls on that one he is noone to point fingers at Karachi for essentially doing the same thing - telling other people whose values we reject to stuff their criticism, because we arent buying it. ``}

Clifton,
As I always said, Clifton is the heart of Karachi. Way to go, o gallant one!

#122 Kulharee ji, I thought it might be only a joke, but at least I got to do my usual sincere bak-bak, haaN ke naeeN??! And sometimes half-Punjabis are better than some pukka pooray ones. Excluding you, of course. :) (and just in case this should for some silly reason bring out the brickbats, I am a Punjaban, which might bring out the brickbats anyways. Hai hai.)

#136 by tahmed32,

tahmed, the answer is simple, and no rocket science. It is what you`ve heard before many times. Democracy needs time to mature. Once derailed, it`s very tough to put back on track. Elected PMs are not perfect, no one is, but they can be voted out. Generals cannot be voted out. They have to be pushed out at great cost to the country.

That`s the irony which noone understood and the very democrats who`re clamoring for democracy now hanged one elected PM and exiled two. No one is saying they didn`t have flaws, but you also need to take into account under what circumstances they survived and under what pressures and for how long compared with the military in the entire history of this country. Still, they performed to the best of their ability. All were patriotic Pakistanis.

Now as it stands, again mark my words my friend, democracy is finished in this country for good. Now there`ll be something else which I can`t exactly identify right now. Maybe another sham parliament for a little while, maybe civil war and anarchy for a while, but after that, there will be an Islamic revolution. There`s just no other way.

Rgds

Re: # 137
Cliffy way to go :)

tahmed ....i dont support the concept of karachi belonging only to urdu speakers or that non MQM supporters have no right to visit ...but if democracy is such a good thing then why dont people accept MQM`s huge democratic mandate in karachi? does that not sound like like hypocracy?
The power of the MQM is a diff. thing to understand unless you are willing to be honest about the prospects of karachi without the MQM ....everyone who favors ethnic misogynist and antisecular ideals has found their whipping boy which only cements support for this party in secular non misogynist (by comparison) cosmopolitan karachi (comparatively) ...it doesnt help that most people attacking the MQM happens to be a fundo/woman/urdu speaking haters. The argument of you are with the terrorists or with us make people in karachi say o.k then in that case we are with the secular terrorists not with the fundo/urdu speaker haters. Is that so diff. to understand?
Many people in karachi feel that MQM is the only thing stopping karachi from being kandahar ....we dont want to live in kandahar. We`ll take karachi with all its madness and violence over that anyday. The people have spoken, like a million times on this one.
Its strange that people who support tribal jirga`s in the NWFP cant accept the mandate of karachi`s democratically elected govt. Try going into NWFP and speaking against their jirga`s, untill imran finds his balls on that one he is noone to point fingers at Karachi for essentially doing the same thing - telling other people whose values we reject to stuff their criticism, because we arent buying it.