Female Image in the NWFP
Amer Khan May 29, 2007
#36 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2007 4:53:03 am
Re: # 31
zeena beti,
``majority of jews are homosexuals`` ......... i see that you are well versed in the chronicles of zion!........ you are right ... and jews also kill little children to drink their blood and eat their hearts - remember that story about abraham and how he tried to slaughter his own son issac ? .......
zeena beti,
``majority of jews are homosexuals`` ......... i see that you are well versed in the chronicles of zion!........ you are right ... and jews also kill little children to drink their blood and eat their hearts - remember that story about abraham and how he tried to slaughter his own son issac ? .......
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#35 Posted by adamkhan on June 1, 2007 4:35:28 am
Couldn’t stop laughing my heart out the first time I saw the “Shama Ghee” ad on GT road, there is this other version in which the same model is lying sideways with his butt sticking out.
Anyways, religion has a lot to do with this transformation; this is a direct result of the rising wave of Wahabism that is sweeping our cities and villages, which is only mutating our traditional concept of ghairat (when it comes to women). All you have to do is compare the Peshawar of today with that of the 80s and you will know the difference.
Bijli Ghar mullah once made a statement about women who go out to shop, he said that these were mere goats who should be taken home and brought inline with the directives of din. Sufi Mohamad of Dir made another statement where he declared that the women of a particular NGO were nikah-ed to the first man who laid eyes on them. That particular NGO did the immoral thing of opening a girl’s college in Dir. What these clowns are doing is that they are transforming burqa-less women into monsters, association with whom is a direct path to hell, and oogling whom is nothing but an expression of disgust (mixed with lust).
I agree with you that selling these standards of pardah is easier when addressing a pathan audience, But for our concept of “ghairat” to evolve, this religious backing from the mullah has to be taken away. This mutated zeal is nothing but the mixing of Hujra with Masjid.
Currently in Waziristan the taliban are enforcing shuttle cork burqas, because the traditional pardah of wazir women (a heavy chaddar) was not modest enough for them. Look around you in Peshawar, those traditional white chaddars are being replaced by black burqas and head scarfs.
The treatment doled out to musicians also has complete sanction from the eminent scholars that populate our assembly. When were we this intolerant of music? Attan was an integral part of life in the tribal areas, now in most tribal villages you have to pay a fine to the jirga before you start beating the attan drum. (first step in the complete phase-out of this tradition)
Even in settled areas, gone are the majlis-oona of rabab mungay, and in are the daras-oona of saza and jaza.
wai mullah jaan chey pa janat kay hooray punday the
tukkay tukkay, speenay speenay mastay aao burbanday the (Ghani Khan)
No wonder Ghani Baba considered the word Mullah a synonym to Munafiq.
And the people who are criticizing you should realize that you are also a part of Pukhtoon society and you have every right to say what you feel about its norms. In your case it should be seen as “self-criticism” rather than “Pukhtoon Bashing”.
Can Chomsky be Anti-Semetic?
Do keep writing wroora, core they wadaan.
Anyways, religion has a lot to do with this transformation; this is a direct result of the rising wave of Wahabism that is sweeping our cities and villages, which is only mutating our traditional concept of ghairat (when it comes to women). All you have to do is compare the Peshawar of today with that of the 80s and you will know the difference.
Bijli Ghar mullah once made a statement about women who go out to shop, he said that these were mere goats who should be taken home and brought inline with the directives of din. Sufi Mohamad of Dir made another statement where he declared that the women of a particular NGO were nikah-ed to the first man who laid eyes on them. That particular NGO did the immoral thing of opening a girl’s college in Dir. What these clowns are doing is that they are transforming burqa-less women into monsters, association with whom is a direct path to hell, and oogling whom is nothing but an expression of disgust (mixed with lust).
I agree with you that selling these standards of pardah is easier when addressing a pathan audience, But for our concept of “ghairat” to evolve, this religious backing from the mullah has to be taken away. This mutated zeal is nothing but the mixing of Hujra with Masjid.
Currently in Waziristan the taliban are enforcing shuttle cork burqas, because the traditional pardah of wazir women (a heavy chaddar) was not modest enough for them. Look around you in Peshawar, those traditional white chaddars are being replaced by black burqas and head scarfs.
The treatment doled out to musicians also has complete sanction from the eminent scholars that populate our assembly. When were we this intolerant of music? Attan was an integral part of life in the tribal areas, now in most tribal villages you have to pay a fine to the jirga before you start beating the attan drum. (first step in the complete phase-out of this tradition)
Even in settled areas, gone are the majlis-oona of rabab mungay, and in are the daras-oona of saza and jaza.
wai mullah jaan chey pa janat kay hooray punday the
tukkay tukkay, speenay speenay mastay aao burbanday the (Ghani Khan)
No wonder Ghani Baba considered the word Mullah a synonym to Munafiq.
And the people who are criticizing you should realize that you are also a part of Pukhtoon society and you have every right to say what you feel about its norms. In your case it should be seen as “self-criticism” rather than “Pukhtoon Bashing”.
Can Chomsky be Anti-Semetic?
Do keep writing wroora, core they wadaan.
#34 Posted by rf786 on June 1, 2007 3:43:14 am
Dr Pervaiz Hoodbhouy article had some very interesting facts, some related to frontier are as follows:
{Female nurses looking after male patients at hospitals in NWFP may soon be banned. Pakistani health minister, Mohammad Nasir Khan, has assured the upper house of parliament that the government could consider the request sympathetically. This move arose from a motion moved by female parliamentary members of the MMA, the Islamist party that commands majorities in the provincial assemblies of the Frontier and Baluchistan provinces and offered crucial support for Musharraf staying on as president. Women’s bodies are of particular concern to these holy men: “We think that men could derive sexual pleasure from women`s bodies while conducting ECG or ultrasound,7” proclaimed Maulana Gul Naseeb Khan, provincial secretary of the MMA. In his opinion women would be able to lure men under the pretext of these medical procedures. Therefore, he said, “to save the supreme values of Islam and the message of the Holy Prophet (PBUH), the MMA has decided to impose the ban.8”}
{Female nurses looking after male patients at hospitals in NWFP may soon be banned. Pakistani health minister, Mohammad Nasir Khan, has assured the upper house of parliament that the government could consider the request sympathetically. This move arose from a motion moved by female parliamentary members of the MMA, the Islamist party that commands majorities in the provincial assemblies of the Frontier and Baluchistan provinces and offered crucial support for Musharraf staying on as president. Women’s bodies are of particular concern to these holy men: “We think that men could derive sexual pleasure from women`s bodies while conducting ECG or ultrasound,7” proclaimed Maulana Gul Naseeb Khan, provincial secretary of the MMA. In his opinion women would be able to lure men under the pretext of these medical procedures. Therefore, he said, “to save the supreme values of Islam and the message of the Holy Prophet (PBUH), the MMA has decided to impose the ban.8”}
#33 Posted by rf786 on June 1, 2007 2:06:56 am
Re: # 30
PM Bhai,
Aap windmills chase naa karein, aapko zeb naheen detha. It was a simple statement regarding social values that are learnt at home and this was based entirely on your confession, nothing to read btw the lines. All I can say is, live and let live.
PM Bhai,
Aap windmills chase naa karein, aapko zeb naheen detha. It was a simple statement regarding social values that are learnt at home and this was based entirely on your confession, nothing to read btw the lines. All I can say is, live and let live.
#32 Posted by rf786 on June 1, 2007 1:58:55 am
Re: # 29
Yaar PM Sahib,
We are talking about Pakistan, this sud have been understood right from the begining, its a given. This recent article is a good reminder:
Radicals targeting girls’ schools in NWFP
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: There is a province-wide onslaught on girls’ schools, video stores and barber shops in the NWFP by the resurgent radicals, their supporters and sympathisers, according to a report in the Christian Science Monitor on Thursday.
These three, viewed as “symbols of Western-oriented life” are being destroyed by religious extremists in a growing wave of violence. Islamist militants have a new target, and if they are successful, it could be disastrous for Pakistan’s future. Four girls’ schools have been bombed and violent threats have been circulated that girls should stay home. While no girls or school staff have been killed, girls in some areas have stopped attending classes, marking a direct blow to Pakistan’s national enterprise of “enlightened moderation,” which posits female education as a central pillar, the report points out.
According to the Monitor correspondent, “Pakistan finds itself at a precarious tipping point: tremendous gains have been made in female education in recent years, but a considerable gender gap remains. Extremists’ efforts to undermine education for women, who are historically one of Pakistan’s most potent forces of moderation, could further empower Pakistan’s growing ranks of Islamist militants.” The continuing wave of attacks could tilt Pakistan’s sensitive political balance and hurt crucial economic development efforts. As female education improves, infant mortality rates tend to decrease, family health improves, national incomes rise, and female citizens become more politically active and aware of their rights, say development experts.
The report notes that entrenched tribal, religious, and economic imperatives in conservative areas regard the schooling of girls as either improper, since girls should not venture outside the purview of the family home, or unnecessary, since girls are often needed for work.
As a result, Pakistan has one of the highest rates of female illiteracy in South Asia, at about 60 percent, and the lowest rate of primary school enrolment for girls, at somewhere between 42 and 48 percent. Those shortcomings are particularly pronounced in the NWFP, which, as of 2004, had the lowest ratio of female enrolment of any province in Pakistan, according to the International Crisis Group (ICG). In areas like FATA, only 1 percent of women and girls are literate. The issue has become even more of a battleground in recent years, as resurgent Islamic extremism bumps heads with the government’s recent efforts to expand girls’ education.
The Monitor report notes that in 2002, the NWFP provincial government allocated 70 percent of its entire education development budget to girls’ schools and created more than 300 primary and middle schools for girls between 2002 and 2005. Local authorities also gave parents small stipends and free clothing to encourage them to enroll their girls. It is these new schools that extremists like Maulana Fazlullah from Swat tend to target. For months, using a pirated radio channel, Fazlullah had warned locals against sending their girls to school, calling it un-Islamic and a violation of purdah, “A woman has been asked to remain behind the four walls of the house. Men have been given preference by God,” Fazlullah told the American correspondent. Under a deal with the government, he has stopped fulminating against girls’ schools but has been allowed to retain his illegal radio station.
The report says that if Fazlullah and others are against female education, it is probably because girls are pouring into schools. In Swat valley alone, primary school enrolment for girls has increased by nearly 31,000 since 2002, or 77 percent. And even though Fazlullah started preaching two years ago, girls’ enrolment in Swat last year grew by more than 12,000, according to government statistics. As a result, female illiteracy has gone down by 9 percentage points in less than a decade. And national statistics suggest that female enrolment at the primary level has climbed by 12 percentage points between 1998 and 2005, according to the World Bank.
“We have no problem,” says Ghulam Akbar, the executive district officer of education in Swat. “The girls are still going. Very (few) have stopped.”
Yaar PM Sahib,
We are talking about Pakistan, this sud have been understood right from the begining, its a given. This recent article is a good reminder:
Radicals targeting girls’ schools in NWFP
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: There is a province-wide onslaught on girls’ schools, video stores and barber shops in the NWFP by the resurgent radicals, their supporters and sympathisers, according to a report in the Christian Science Monitor on Thursday.
These three, viewed as “symbols of Western-oriented life” are being destroyed by religious extremists in a growing wave of violence. Islamist militants have a new target, and if they are successful, it could be disastrous for Pakistan’s future. Four girls’ schools have been bombed and violent threats have been circulated that girls should stay home. While no girls or school staff have been killed, girls in some areas have stopped attending classes, marking a direct blow to Pakistan’s national enterprise of “enlightened moderation,” which posits female education as a central pillar, the report points out.
According to the Monitor correspondent, “Pakistan finds itself at a precarious tipping point: tremendous gains have been made in female education in recent years, but a considerable gender gap remains. Extremists’ efforts to undermine education for women, who are historically one of Pakistan’s most potent forces of moderation, could further empower Pakistan’s growing ranks of Islamist militants.” The continuing wave of attacks could tilt Pakistan’s sensitive political balance and hurt crucial economic development efforts. As female education improves, infant mortality rates tend to decrease, family health improves, national incomes rise, and female citizens become more politically active and aware of their rights, say development experts.
The report notes that entrenched tribal, religious, and economic imperatives in conservative areas regard the schooling of girls as either improper, since girls should not venture outside the purview of the family home, or unnecessary, since girls are often needed for work.
As a result, Pakistan has one of the highest rates of female illiteracy in South Asia, at about 60 percent, and the lowest rate of primary school enrolment for girls, at somewhere between 42 and 48 percent. Those shortcomings are particularly pronounced in the NWFP, which, as of 2004, had the lowest ratio of female enrolment of any province in Pakistan, according to the International Crisis Group (ICG). In areas like FATA, only 1 percent of women and girls are literate. The issue has become even more of a battleground in recent years, as resurgent Islamic extremism bumps heads with the government’s recent efforts to expand girls’ education.
The Monitor report notes that in 2002, the NWFP provincial government allocated 70 percent of its entire education development budget to girls’ schools and created more than 300 primary and middle schools for girls between 2002 and 2005. Local authorities also gave parents small stipends and free clothing to encourage them to enroll their girls. It is these new schools that extremists like Maulana Fazlullah from Swat tend to target. For months, using a pirated radio channel, Fazlullah had warned locals against sending their girls to school, calling it un-Islamic and a violation of purdah, “A woman has been asked to remain behind the four walls of the house. Men have been given preference by God,” Fazlullah told the American correspondent. Under a deal with the government, he has stopped fulminating against girls’ schools but has been allowed to retain his illegal radio station.
The report says that if Fazlullah and others are against female education, it is probably because girls are pouring into schools. In Swat valley alone, primary school enrolment for girls has increased by nearly 31,000 since 2002, or 77 percent. And even though Fazlullah started preaching two years ago, girls’ enrolment in Swat last year grew by more than 12,000, according to government statistics. As a result, female illiteracy has gone down by 9 percentage points in less than a decade. And national statistics suggest that female enrolment at the primary level has climbed by 12 percentage points between 1998 and 2005, according to the World Bank.
“We have no problem,” says Ghulam Akbar, the executive district officer of education in Swat. “The girls are still going. Very (few) have stopped.”
#31 Posted by Zeena on May 31, 2007 11:55:20 pm
#28 hamdim2 sahib
Yes, we should respect their culture...and yes, it is the part of their culture to advertize pretty boys on the billboards......What`s wrong with that?
If, you are referring this towards homosexuality then what can I expect from a narrow minded like you who has selective morality.
There are more homosexuals in India, USA, Europe than anywhere else, majority of jews are homosexuals......but, that is acceptable for you b/c they have their freedom, but, if som ecompanies show some pretty boys faces over their billboards without showing some girls( b/c of their cultural values), you quickly jump to raise your finger and start criticisng them for being homosexuals......you are sick....
In Europe , usa and all aroun dthe world they have very expensive male models you don`t say a thing about that........
All your bashing and non sense is either abusing and name calling our prophets, our religious figures, Muslims and pakistanis.......
Yes, we should respect their culture...and yes, it is the part of their culture to advertize pretty boys on the billboards......What`s wrong with that?
If, you are referring this towards homosexuality then what can I expect from a narrow minded like you who has selective morality.
There are more homosexuals in India, USA, Europe than anywhere else, majority of jews are homosexuals......but, that is acceptable for you b/c they have their freedom, but, if som ecompanies show some pretty boys faces over their billboards without showing some girls( b/c of their cultural values), you quickly jump to raise your finger and start criticisng them for being homosexuals......you are sick....
In Europe , usa and all aroun dthe world they have very expensive male models you don`t say a thing about that........
All your bashing and non sense is either abusing and name calling our prophets, our religious figures, Muslims and pakistanis.......
#30 Posted by PM on May 31, 2007 9:14:32 am
re. rf786 #27:
yeh tau tu ne bouncer mara:
``You were unaware because thats the way u were raised and conditioned to believe, now that moulding of values has been reversed otherwise why wud anyone care about some lifeless object unless, unless they are told otherwise. As the great Sheikhpure said..``Beauty is in the eye of the beholder`` that is so true for every generation and civilization.``
I`m not really sure what you mean. It`s true that I was raised in a way that didn`t condition the kind of response I guess advertisers are banking on from a Pakistani audience, if that`s what you mean. Also, I bat for the other side, so, well...
But no, there was no remoulding of values in reverse. I was awakened to this blantantly suggestive advertising watching that ``Sooper`` biscuit commercial when I got back from the US. Admittedly, this was one of the more extreme examples....
``otherwise why wud anyone care about some lifeless object unless, unless they are told otherwise. ``
Surely you agree there are ways other than association with female sensuality to promote/bring to life some lifeless object?
Or wait.... are you referring to the female models? tch tch!!
;-)
yeh tau tu ne bouncer mara:
``You were unaware because thats the way u were raised and conditioned to believe, now that moulding of values has been reversed otherwise why wud anyone care about some lifeless object unless, unless they are told otherwise. As the great Sheikhpure said..``Beauty is in the eye of the beholder`` that is so true for every generation and civilization.``
I`m not really sure what you mean. It`s true that I was raised in a way that didn`t condition the kind of response I guess advertisers are banking on from a Pakistani audience, if that`s what you mean. Also, I bat for the other side, so, well...
But no, there was no remoulding of values in reverse. I was awakened to this blantantly suggestive advertising watching that ``Sooper`` biscuit commercial when I got back from the US. Admittedly, this was one of the more extreme examples....
``otherwise why wud anyone care about some lifeless object unless, unless they are told otherwise. ``
Surely you agree there are ways other than association with female sensuality to promote/bring to life some lifeless object?
Or wait.... are you referring to the female models? tch tch!!
;-)
#29 Posted by PM on May 31, 2007 8:59:50 am
arif miaN,
[insert egg-on-face ikaan here pliss]
abay ogled at byguys!?!?
Pehley hee kyouN nahiN wazay kiya?? yahaN tau mein beyTh ke sochraha thHa, ``which guy wouldn`t want to be ogled at by women!`` (Then again, weren`t you talking about Pathans? abb tau meiN billlllkul confuse hogaya houN!!!)
(Also remind me to read aatikul before doing hoshiyaree next time :) )
And okay, you did say boyzzz... but c`mon, even by modern everyone-under-eighteen-is-a-child standards, the dude in the pic above is not a boy!!
But seriously... I`m so on the same page with you on the last two paras of your #25. Respect for `cultural values` must not preclude the condemnation of human rights violation. And whatever we deem specific rights of humans to be, and as carefully as we need to tread on these delicate issues. there has GOT to be a basic `agreement` within civil society of what constitute the very basics, such as the right (for girls) to be treated with equality and given a fair share of life opportunities, whatever they may be in their circumstances.
Otherwise, our ``morals`` make about as much difference as our tastes in food-- nada, that is!
[insert egg-on-face ikaan here pliss]
abay ogled at byguys!?!?
Pehley hee kyouN nahiN wazay kiya?? yahaN tau mein beyTh ke sochraha thHa, ``which guy wouldn`t want to be ogled at by women!`` (Then again, weren`t you talking about Pathans? abb tau meiN billlllkul confuse hogaya houN!!!)
(Also remind me to read aatikul before doing hoshiyaree next time :) )
And okay, you did say boyzzz... but c`mon, even by modern everyone-under-eighteen-is-a-child standards, the dude in the pic above is not a boy!!
But seriously... I`m so on the same page with you on the last two paras of your #25. Respect for `cultural values` must not preclude the condemnation of human rights violation. And whatever we deem specific rights of humans to be, and as carefully as we need to tread on these delicate issues. there has GOT to be a basic `agreement` within civil society of what constitute the very basics, such as the right (for girls) to be treated with equality and given a fair share of life opportunities, whatever they may be in their circumstances.
Otherwise, our ``morals`` make about as much difference as our tastes in food-- nada, that is!
#28 Posted by hamidm2 on May 31, 2007 7:53:15 am
... the boys from bannu ..........
........... i think it is appropriate that pretty boys are being used as objects of desire to sell everything from cooking oil to automobiles in the nwfp- after all it is part of their `culture` ........... nobody there gives a flip about kate moss or cindy crawford, but you will see leonardo`s picture at tea stalls and niswar shops all over bannu, charsadda and peshawar .......... as zeena points out, we should respect their cultural heritage
www.fotyart.org/travel/maleta/tom-kelly/Pakistan_Pleaure_Boys.pdf
#27 Posted by rf786 on May 31, 2007 6:39:51 am
Re: # 24
{I was quite unaware of the devious ways in which advertisers in Pakistan subliminally use sexist perceptions of women to make products more appealing-- till I started noting how, exactly women were depicted.}
You were unaware because thats the way u were raised and conditioned to believe, now that moulding of values has been reversed otherwise why wud anyone care about some lifeless object unless, unless they are told otherwise. As the great Sheikhpure said..``Beauty is in the eye of the beholder`` that is so true for every generation and civilization.
{I was quite unaware of the devious ways in which advertisers in Pakistan subliminally use sexist perceptions of women to make products more appealing-- till I started noting how, exactly women were depicted.}
You were unaware because thats the way u were raised and conditioned to believe, now that moulding of values has been reversed otherwise why wud anyone care about some lifeless object unless, unless they are told otherwise. As the great Sheikhpure said..``Beauty is in the eye of the beholder`` that is so true for every generation and civilization.
#26 Posted by Zeena on May 31, 2007 6:28:04 am
#24 PM ji
Ditto!..Very valid points....
#22 taureenkhan sahib
Thanks for your response. There is no such thing as double standards being applied in Peshawar by showing this man`s picture and not a woman`s....b/c like PM said, it is a cultural issue......and ofcourse woman are taken as objects of lust and people perceive them differently...
But, I won`t have any objection,if, they show them ,too.
It is just the cultural heritage that I am respecting......
Ditto!..Very valid points....
#22 taureenkhan sahib
Thanks for your response. There is no such thing as double standards being applied in Peshawar by showing this man`s picture and not a woman`s....b/c like PM said, it is a cultural issue......and ofcourse woman are taken as objects of lust and people perceive them differently...
But, I won`t have any objection,if, they show them ,too.
It is just the cultural heritage that I am respecting......
#25 Posted by rf786 on May 31, 2007 6:18:14 am
Re: # 24
{abay tum theek tau houN, bhai?!? }
Doing well thanku.
{Man, I dunno `bout you, but most guys I know would WANT to be ogled.. State of vulnerability?? abay what have you been reading lately?!? Bhai, we`re wired differently... that`s a given. And what`s bad for the gander might well be good for the goose! }
Dude....``most guys I know would WANT to be ogled``....thats sad....I wud be very very uncomfortable if some GUYS started oggling me and that goes for the rest of my straight friends.
PM Jee, me think u feeling uncomfortable with this ``line`` of argument thus the jhatka jawab (knee jerk reaction).
Seriously speaking, the writer who hails from Peshawer (the right domicile) has made some very honest observations that raise questions of morality, gender discrimination and social behaviors. Societies are supposed to evolve over time, many have moved from their old tribal customs to present day urbane cultures. Now there will be group (the Z`s pf this world) that will argue otherwise, well that is dandy for those who have already progressed and no longer have to concern themselves with the daily harrassment and gender discrimination. Women in Wana, Dir and some other areas of Frontier are not even allowed to vote and this has happened with the mutual agreement of ALL political parties that includes Anp, PPP, Pti and other religious parties. This environment is untenable and has to be protested.
Bhai, the tribal areas have been living in complete freedom, state and civil society has either ignored their tribal customs or hailed them as some ancient civilizational values that need not be changed. I disagree and propose open debate cause instead of them moving forward, rest of Pakistan is being given the taliban model in the name of religion.
{abay tum theek tau houN, bhai?!? }
Doing well thanku.
{Man, I dunno `bout you, but most guys I know would WANT to be ogled.. State of vulnerability?? abay what have you been reading lately?!? Bhai, we`re wired differently... that`s a given. And what`s bad for the gander might well be good for the goose! }
Dude....``most guys I know would WANT to be ogled``....thats sad....I wud be very very uncomfortable if some GUYS started oggling me and that goes for the rest of my straight friends.
PM Jee, me think u feeling uncomfortable with this ``line`` of argument thus the jhatka jawab (knee jerk reaction).
Seriously speaking, the writer who hails from Peshawer (the right domicile) has made some very honest observations that raise questions of morality, gender discrimination and social behaviors. Societies are supposed to evolve over time, many have moved from their old tribal customs to present day urbane cultures. Now there will be group (the Z`s pf this world) that will argue otherwise, well that is dandy for those who have already progressed and no longer have to concern themselves with the daily harrassment and gender discrimination. Women in Wana, Dir and some other areas of Frontier are not even allowed to vote and this has happened with the mutual agreement of ALL political parties that includes Anp, PPP, Pti and other religious parties. This environment is untenable and has to be protested.
Bhai, the tribal areas have been living in complete freedom, state and civil society has either ignored their tribal customs or hailed them as some ancient civilizational values that need not be changed. I disagree and propose open debate cause instead of them moving forward, rest of Pakistan is being given the taliban model in the name of religion.
#24 Posted by PM on May 31, 2007 4:52:30 am
re. rf786:
If these men folk are to be shaken from their state of oggling, then they need something that will shock their foundation. How about movies showing men being oggled, desired and admired. Once the audience (male) sense their state of vulnerability, they will understand the pain and anguish experienced by their female counterparts. ``
abay tum theek tau houN, bhai?!?
Man, I dunno `bout you, but most guys I know would WANT to be ogled.. State of vulnerability?? abay what have you been reading lately?!? Bhai, we`re wired differently... that`s a given. And what`s bad for the gander might well be good for the goose!
you also write: ``And what about those boyzzzz? what makes u believe its ok to display men on billboards? case in point, take a look at the picture posted by the writer.``
Achha.. more seriously... yaar, the ethical issues revolving around the displaying of males/females on billboards and in adverts is necessarily linked to the general perception (or constructs) of gender in society. So again, what`s good for the goose may not be good for the gander, not only because they`re wired differently, but because we`re socialized to treat each differently.
I was quite unaware of the devious ways in which advertisers in Pakistan subliminally use sexist perceptions of women to make products more appealing-- till I started noting how, exactly women were depicted. Now, I`m certainly not saying that I favour depriving mankind of the joy of beholding female beauty, but, esp in a culture such as ours (think `frustrated males,` for whom females are very often mere objects), an argument must be made for attaching great care to the depiction of women`s images.
What would be great, i think, is for women models to be shown wearing conservative dress, (if you watch any of the Middle Eastern TV channels, you get the idea), but smiling and proudly displaying their womanhood, bereft of any traces of sensuality/senuousness. This might actually have the effect of perception-correction (as I see it, of course) among the ogling, frustrated masses.
If these men folk are to be shaken from their state of oggling, then they need something that will shock their foundation. How about movies showing men being oggled, desired and admired. Once the audience (male) sense their state of vulnerability, they will understand the pain and anguish experienced by their female counterparts. ``
abay tum theek tau houN, bhai?!?
Man, I dunno `bout you, but most guys I know would WANT to be ogled.. State of vulnerability?? abay what have you been reading lately?!? Bhai, we`re wired differently... that`s a given. And what`s bad for the gander might well be good for the goose!
you also write: ``And what about those boyzzzz? what makes u believe its ok to display men on billboards? case in point, take a look at the picture posted by the writer.``
Achha.. more seriously... yaar, the ethical issues revolving around the displaying of males/females on billboards and in adverts is necessarily linked to the general perception (or constructs) of gender in society. So again, what`s good for the goose may not be good for the gander, not only because they`re wired differently, but because we`re socialized to treat each differently.
I was quite unaware of the devious ways in which advertisers in Pakistan subliminally use sexist perceptions of women to make products more appealing-- till I started noting how, exactly women were depicted. Now, I`m certainly not saying that I favour depriving mankind of the joy of beholding female beauty, but, esp in a culture such as ours (think `frustrated males,` for whom females are very often mere objects), an argument must be made for attaching great care to the depiction of women`s images.
What would be great, i think, is for women models to be shown wearing conservative dress, (if you watch any of the Middle Eastern TV channels, you get the idea), but smiling and proudly displaying their womanhood, bereft of any traces of sensuality/senuousness. This might actually have the effect of perception-correction (as I see it, of course) among the ogling, frustrated masses.
#23 Posted by Iseered on May 31, 2007 3:56:43 am
Is it just me or the various posts that I have just read have completely missed the point the writer is trying to make... The point is that the depiction of female roles that has adversly affected the phsyche (I hope I have spelled this right) of one part of hte population.. It is a much researched fact that if you show something or someone in a negative light constantly... people will form opinions that will be ingrained and will amount to brain washing.... I have this often in most blogs and posts... the respondents just veer off topic and try to browbeat their point home... we need rationale discussions on forum of this kind not just someone ranting without a clue to the subject matter at hand....
#22 Posted by TaureanKhan on May 31, 2007 2:20:31 am
Amer Khan: Thanks for commenting on my writeup. Zeena, special thanks to you for your critical appraisal....
In reply to Zeena`s and my other fellow Chowkwala`s comments(including clifton buddy etc) that my article was senseless Pushtoon bashing: I live in Peshawar. I am extremely frustrated with the behaviour of my fellow pashtun men for ogling my wife/other female family members, performing a detailed x-ray of her body every time we go out - sort of a visual rape....I cant do anything as i realize that this is a cultural thing which i cant change (as rightly mentioned by Zeena and others) This visual rape is so brazen, they do it even if I stare back in anger!!!....I am too ``civilized`` to reciprocate the people`s reaction by staring at women too (in a kind of revengeful reaction!!).....This article is atleast a cathartic experience to unburden my mind and share it with you people.....
you people are right....I dont give solutions. my article is not meant to give that...only my angered and emotional outpouring in reaction to my experience....
If my article appears to be a pashtun basher...A disclaimer is in order then.....Pashtun (specially from lower classes) are not used to women in Public....so they react to public display of feminity by a certain amused ``surpise``.....this does not mean that they have wrong intentions (most of the times!!)....NWFP is full of enlighted Pashtoons...women from Pashtoon families were the first female candidates in PAk ARMY!!! (but again, representing middle/uppermiddle class)
Zeena, and other respected friends, yes you are right, nothing wrong with male models on billboards......but why this double standard of considering female public display as a problem where there are more pressing issues faced by our society....poverty, falling quality of public services etc....a female smiling face would not end poverty and improve people`s lives...
...more later, on positive aspects of NWFP society.
#21 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2007 1:04:37 pm
Re: # 19
For someone who doesnt want to interact u sure do have plenty to say, anyhoooo thats your business.
Everyone but Zeena
Why is it ok to show clean shaven boyzzz and yet find smartly dressed girls as offensive? Who is protecting the right of women in Nwfp? Is their a sound, effective manner of determining what the women folk of Nwfp want when they are not even allowed to vote? If this cultural invasion is exported to the other provinces, should the other provinces not export their values to Nwfp? Just a few thoughts to ponder....but not for Zeena, hum saath naheen khailthey.
For someone who doesnt want to interact u sure do have plenty to say, anyhoooo thats your business.
Everyone but Zeena
Why is it ok to show clean shaven boyzzz and yet find smartly dressed girls as offensive? Who is protecting the right of women in Nwfp? Is their a sound, effective manner of determining what the women folk of Nwfp want when they are not even allowed to vote? If this cultural invasion is exported to the other provinces, should the other provinces not export their values to Nwfp? Just a few thoughts to ponder....but not for Zeena, hum saath naheen khailthey.
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