Daughters of Hajar

w-max,

you asked if my `version of islam believes in establishing an islamic state`?

the answer is that an islamic state will happen when Allah wills--I believe when Imam Mahdi alayhisalam comes.

the following answer by the noble shaykh gf haddad of lebanon is the orthodox--as opposed to wahabist--view on the matter:


excerpt:
It is fard to keep not only hope but certainty that Allah will re-establish the Khilafa, and its signs are all around us so we know it is very near, and He will do so with or without us regardless of the presumed obstacles. The Khilafa is divinely appointed, it is not a question of human organization or power. AND THERE IS NO KHILAFA BEFORE AL-MAHDI.

http://www.livingislam.org -- visit it. for my money the best islamic website on the whole WWW.

tahmed

thanks for the washington post link. great article by ahmad rashid.

once the post begins to criticise yo--it being a mouthpiece of the right in the US-you`ve had it.

wahabimax,

1. i listened to that lal masjid mullah shouting. why should i be scared? btw what is his stature as an alim? where did he get his ijazahs from~? who are his teachers? he just sounds like a typicalc wahabi terrorist who is using islam to win political power. where was his demand for the death penalty for the saudis when they demolished the house in which the prophet :pbuh: was born? or when sayyida amina`s grave was bulldozed? or bibi fatima`s?


2. i accept that any muslim who insults the prophetm, or find fault in him, is a kafir. btw you have said things on chowk about huzoor paak which if shown to a sunni alim could possibly get you a fatwa of kufr. eg. `he is just an ordinary man`.

3. the last time i checked hamidm wasn`t living in an islamic country and islam orders us to respect the laws of the land we are in.

Re: # 1013

regard,

........ i agree with you - the association is essentially social ....... my very small group of childhood friends include a couple of christians and the subject of religion never comes up with them - as a matter of fact when tehsin abbassi and i were growing up, we never thought of our christian friends as being `different` in any way ........ if i had grown up in india with lots of whisky swilling ( and kebab eating) friends, i probably would have less of a need to maintain my muslim credentials ...........

....... as far as being an atheist is concerned, unless you have an educated and deep philosophical basis for being one, the social cost is really not worth it .......... there is no way that a declared atheist will get elected as president of the us in our lifetime..... so, unless my daughter wants to be a professor of evolutionary biology and get on the lecture circuit like dawkins, i would advise her to remain a sceptical muslim ......... being a half-ass atheist is worse than being a half-ass muslim - at least you have more company and can run for president !

......... i know it is outright intellectual dishonesty; but then, i never claimed to be an intellectual ...........

Naqsh

Ghazi ilm al-din shaheed rahmatullah alayhi was not even a good Muslim. Nor was Jinnah, for defending him. Right?

---

And, with all due respect, all Hindus, instead of trying to ``save`` Muslims from great evil, should stay the hell away, and worry about their own sorry situation. Why get into things of which you have not the foggiest idea?

At best, go and read some more sher-o-shayari. Echo dada should be always willing to help out. For, that`s the absolute limit of Hindu understanding.

Pardesi

What did I ever do to be accused of promoting such crap as Deen-e-elahi?! Next could be sufism itself! One drlokraj should be more than enough to pay for the sins of all of us.

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Re: # 1011Hamidm
So your islamic affiliation is essentially social while you resent the theological / philosphical content. Does Islam accept you to be atheist and still retain your links to muslim world? Is it not then an bondage on free thinking, you`re forcing your daughter to carry too?

If atheists see anything wrong with religion, specially exclusive religions, it is its encroachment of the collective social space with others. What is surprising is to see highly eclectic rationalists like Muhammed Gill, Dr Suhail, even to a degree Salim Chauhan, balk and bend as soon as this threat of apostasy- Wajib-ul-Qatl looms in the air instead of agnosticism that looms everywhere in all that they say. As it seems you live in west. Threat perception is probably not that strong. Why your daughter can`t simply slip away and decide for herself? She may live a good free thinking muslims life while professing atheism so she won`t under threat under western skies and a new muslim genre will come into being, much like in 13th century. rgds.

Brilliant, informative article in the Washington Post by Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid on how Musharraf is wrecking Pakistan in order to cling to power.
Musharraf`s Double Game

Excerpts:

Game 1: The Musharraf-Cheney Connection

...Current and past US Officials tell me that Pakistan policy is essentially being run from Cheney`s office. The vice president, they say, is close to Musharraf and refuses to brook any U.S. criticism of him. This all fits; in recent months, I`m told, Pakistani opposition politicians visiting Washington have been ushered in to meet Cheney`s aides, rather than taken to the State Department.

With Cheney in charge and Rice in eclipse, rumblings of alarm can be heard at the Defense Department and the CIA. While neither agency is usually directly concerned with decision-making on Pakistan, both boast officers with far greater expertise than the White House and State Department crew. These officers, many of whom have served in Islamabad or Kabul, understand the double game that Musharraf has played -- helping the United States go after al-Qaeda while letting his intelligence services help the Taliban claw their way back in Afghanistan. The Pentagon and the CIA have been privately expressing concern about the lack of an alternative to blind support for Musharraf. Ironically, both departments have historically supported military rulers in Pakistan. They seem to have learned their lesson. ...

Game 2: The Musharraf-Mullah Connection

the Taliban and al-Qaeda are now deeply entrenched in the tribal border belt adjacent to Afghanistan. These groups gained political legitimacy last year when Musharraf signed a series of dubious peace deals with the Pakistani Taliban. They are now coming down from the mountains to spread their radical ideology in towns and cities by burning down DVD and TV shops, insisting that young men grow beards, forcibly recruiting schoolboys for the jihad and terrifying girls so that they won`t attend school. The military has refused to put a brake on their extremism.

Musharraf promised the international community that he would purge pro-Taliban elements from his security services and convinced the Bush administration that his philosophy of ``enlightened moderation`` was the only way to fend off Islamic extremism. But Pakistan today is the center of global Islamic terrorism, with Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mohammad Omar probably living here.

Instead of confronting this threat, the army has focused on keeping Musharraf in power -- negotiating with extremists, letting radical Islamic students set up a base in Islamabad and so forth. Meanwhile, to spook the West into continuing to support him, Musharraf continues to grossly exaggerate the strength of the Islamic parties that he warns might take over his nuclear-armed country. In fact, the United States would be far safer if it pushed for a truly representative Pakistani government that could marginalize the jihadists, rather than placing all its eggs in Musharraf`s basket.

Re: # 1009

zeemax,

......... you know i can`t do that ........ all my friends, my family and my enemies are muslims ...... i love eid and shab e barat, sheer khurma and zarda............... and even though i haven`t done it in many years, i would still love to go to bari imam and imbibe some bhang with the wonderful men of god; my mother was a practicing muslim even though she used to spit on the floor weneverever she mentioned the word `wahabi`; and even though my father was a non-practicing muslim who never prayed in his life he donated the land for the neighborhod mosque and spent a whole year supervising its construction when he was seventy five years old; mrs hamidm is a muslim who pulls out the prayer rug frequently and goes into a religious frenzy during ramzan; even my children are part-time muslims ...... when the older one declared she was an atheist, i told her she couldn`t be one until she had read every book by richard dawkins and could recite the bhagvad geeta backwards .............. and to be honest, i really don`t have a problem with the concept of god - it is just that i find it hard to believe in the bumbling caricatures we have created to represent him ......... how can you respect someone who cannot, or will not, save his own son from being lynched ? ........... as for the prophet (pbuh), i don`t have too many quibbles with him inspite of some obvious flaws in his character - after all he was a man, and all men have flaws ............

........... so please stop trying to excommunicate me - i would be an awfully lonely man if i quit islam ........ and besides, what would i be - a hindoo? ........ you know that i don`t like vegetables ...........

........... may allah calm you down before you blow an artery or a passsenger bus ....... amen........

your brother in faith

#932 by zeemax on June 16, 2007 2:02pm PT

It`s a good thing you`re on welfare...IF you had a job, it would be painful knowing that your taxes were being used to protect someone who blasphemed against pbuh-dude...

...contd...#1008

... or if according to your definition, only a muslin should be killed, then I would like hamidm to declare he is not a Muslim. He declares quite to the contrary and in that case even according to your own definition he is Wajib-ul-Qatl.

#1004 by Naqshbandi,

Whether Ghazi Ilam Din was a barelvi or a Wahabi ... whatever you say ... whether it was an Islamic State or not ... whatever you say ...

But he did effing kill a blasphemer didn`t he? And Jinnah defended him.

Now you tell me .. why shouldn`t hamidm2 be killed?

:~)

Dr. Gill,

I am sorry I missed out on this very interesting article and what appears to have been a very lively debate. I agree with Ms. Nomani and others like her and also wish them lots of luck - especially under the present climate of highly inflamed passions.

BJ Kumar

Naqshbandi,

Listen to this and quake in your boots.