Allama Iqbal- Is he still relevant?

Re: # 32

Not really......We would prefer Pakis doing it for us........

HE #9 makes an important point: Iqbal`s ambivalence toward democracy is understandable. The 1920s and 30s were traumatic for the democracies because of the Great Depression...Perhaps if he had lived to see the end of WW2, this choice would have been easier to make for him.

And indeed, it is important to keep in mind a key advantage the average person has today over the most profound thinkers of the past - experience with what works and what does not. That is why it is important to use one`s common sense first and foremost, and not get carried away by the words, however inspiring and emotionally satisfying, of poets and philosophers of the past.

Naqsh #4 Most people in most societies--i.e. the common masses are simply too dumb to know what`s good for them and are like sheep and follow whatever their peers say.

Funny you of all people should say this - after all, arent you always referring to your spiritual heroes as if they are little gods.

Some kind of qualification (maybe an IQ test of some sort with those scoring less than 100 barred) needs to be built in so that ability and not just numbers are taken into account. After all the opinion of 100 morons does not have the same weight as one Einstein but in pure democracy the views of 100 idiots would hold sway.

The past 60 years of experience in Pakistan present good case studies on which to test your hypothesis: Thus, today, the ``morons`` of Pakistan instinctively understand the importance of the Rule of Law and thus turn out in the thousands to cheer the Chief Justice, while the ``elite`` Musharraf has proven to be deceiptful, lawless indivdual whom you could not trust with 5 rupees, leave alone the reins of power to the entire Pakistani nation.

Re: # 30 Chennai

``..What makes you think that Pakistan will not be a secular country.........like India..``

60 years of history (and 15 years of Pakistan prior to that) staring you at your face (with Bangladesh formation thrown in to boot!). Can you ignore that deliberate edifice of ignorance? I`ll put it another way as well: How much of your own money will you put on that happening in the next 5 years, given that it has not happened in the previous 60? If you give an answer more than USD 1000, contact me -- I will be happy to bet against you and we can get down to business
CIAO

This is the worst article I have ever read on Iqbal`s poetry and political thought process. I think ylh has to eductae himself quite a bit before writing on the topic.

#32 by Mantolives on June 22, 2007 5:09am PT

yes..I need my ego massaged because India is seen as a politically unstable jihadi hotbed..

oh wait...that`s not India...it`s pakiland...

Re: # 36

Listen my friend.......you seem to have a latent desire to see India & Pak reunite........banish the thought.......U guys will simply change the demographics of a place...
eg; We allow complete freedom to all cows and their ilk to freely traverse from kashmir to Kanyakumari even on our highways without stoping at Toll gates and other impediments.........

This would change on reunification and no self respecting Indian can tolerate that..:)))

Re: # 21
btw, what is the second line here

``Sultan-e-jumhoor ka ata hai zamana``

Jo something nazar aiy unhain gira do

I think it`s

jo naqsh-e-kohan tum ko nazar aye mita do.

Re: # 39 Chennai

``...you seem to have a latent desire to see India & Pak reunite...``

Quite the opposite. Don`t know how you concluded that I harbored such blasphemous thoughts! Nothing would delight me more than to see them wither on the vine!

Saala Kargil ki chattan pe to char gaya! Ab utrey ga kaise? Kind of sums up my sentiments for the whole Paki movement.

Re: # 32 Manto

``...I have said my part and I am done here...``

Aw...come on! Spew forth some `wisdom` so that we can chew it!

Re: # 41

Are you Indian..............

If yes, my sincere apologies on my comments on the bovine species......Do not issue a fatwa or the equivalent on my head.........:)))

From article:

``While in my view this idea is inherently flawed but it is clear that a majority of Muslims around the world agree with Iqbal`s idea, what they don`t agree with is Iqbal`s liberal interpretation of Islamic law and his readiness to do away with what they consider to be the central motif of islam.``

My question: And what is that central motif?

Abey pukeresearch/achootennai etc,

Is this the bharat you idiots jump up and down about?

India Without the Slogans

I came to India looking forward to a place with a sense of momentum and hope. I knew India was still poor and frustrating as well as fascinating and exciting and full of great stories. I have found all those things, but I have also realized that parts of Africa have better services and infrastructure than India, and just as good prospects for development. It`s just that Africa hasn`t yet come up with a catchy slogan to sell itself. I hope it doesn`t. Better to be surprised than disappointed.

manto, can you comment on iqbals vision for pakista vis-a-vis jinnahs? to me it appears iqbal seems to inspire those with a vision differing from that of jinnah. this offcourse with caveat that i dont think jinnah really had much of a vision for pakistan, it was more like a legal brief, prepared to bolster his clients case.

Re: # 45 Zee
Bottom line up-front: The average profit margin of a security on the Bombay Stock Exchange is 3 % points higher than on NYSE or . Follow the money, and you will get it! Everything else is talk. Cheap talk.
CIAO

[#25 by Naqshbandi on June 22, 2007 2:42am PT

...IQ tests follow --in theory at least--a normal distribution with 100 in the middle...]

Gauss Bhaiyya idhar bhi aa dhamake. Koi baat nahee. Welcome.

So what is standard deviation of a standardized IQ test? If the IQ score=0 is at -3*ó then it should be at 33+1/3.

I think so disenfranchizing any people is a bad idea. But if you must use IQ test scores then using 100 as cutoff point is a bad idea. It will disenfrenchise 50% population. At +/-1*ó there are natural points on Gauss`s distribution. At these points are the pdf curve`s two Points of Inflexion. All other points are ``Man Made``. Like 95% etc are all man made. If one must use the distribution of IQ scores in a population one may use (mean -1*ó). At least that way more then 50% will be vote eligible.

But I think letting the nature biase the population by requiring every willing voter first of all to have willingness and then intelligence to understand voting process and have enough intelligence to be able to find one`s way to polling booth, is all that is required as far as disenfrenchising is concerned. The nature itself will take out from voting people who are too dumb or too unwilling.