Rushdie and the British Establishment

#31 Arjun

Wrong analogy there Arjun. We are talking about political cause and effect. Where a well oiled overwhelmingly strong military and economic force exerts its will on a weaker foe. The resistance from the weaker foe will be asymetrical. And by that, one means, gurilla style, no formal military, going after targets usually not acceptable in direct conflict etc etc.

I beleive all war and violence is wrong. So symmetrical or asymmetrical, both are wrong. However, one can see when a response arises, why it will arise, and how it will take place.

You are an intelligent guy (have read many of your interacts), don't let emotions blind you all the time.

--thinking

Hi Arjun,

I am of Indian origin and a card carrying member of the VHP. I have noticed your interacts across various posts on chowk and cant decide whether you are one person or a group of persons. But one thing I am sure of and that is you must be an ISI plant.

You (all) are always among the first to attack any muslim poster, and your theme is always anti-muslim - "islamofascists" or like. Even when serious discussion is taking place, you tend to trivialize it and start straight away on a communal theme. And it is so consistent that is why I believe that you must be an ISI plant out to destroy whatever dialog is attempted.


On one hand I could tell you - let it go, look around you and see what is happening to the 2 nation theory. Just do not keep justifying it by your diatribes.

Do not let echo and zee rile you so much. Take the high road.

Just a friendly advice on the off chance you are not a ISI plant.

giani

#32 Posted by thinkingstorm on July 19, 2007 9:12:52 am

ok..in that case, whenever the israelis take over pali land or do something bad to arabs, I'll be asking about the root cause of why the israelis were forced to do what they did. What's sauce for the goose and all that. The root cause thing cuts both ways. I'm sure the Israelis will say that pali terrorism justifies their land-grab wall.

Either you think people blowing up subways or flying planes into buildings is wrong or you don't. You can't have it both ways. If you think it's wrong, the justification shouldn't matter. Once you start accepting some justification, you're on a slippery slope. I'm sure the sunni bomber who kills a bunch of shias has some root cause he completely believes in.

Justification is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm sure the 15 relatively well off saudis who flew planes into buildings thought they had some just cause. I'm sure the british born and raised brit-pakis who blew themselves up in subways completelty believed in their cause.

Kulharee writes " A poor moron without access to clean drinking water protesting over Rushdie affair comes across as a stupid poor moron "

No you stupid fcuk, a "poor person without access to clean water protesting over the Rushdie Affair", is protesting those same forces that trample on his humanity, deny him clean water and consider him expendible vermin. He is protesting that same injustice when he/she rails against the West that colonized him, impoverished him, and then ensured through their morons (the likes of you) that he is denied clean drinking water.

Saima shah writes "Tomorrow Mr Rushdie may write something beautiful about Islam, then would the British govt. take back the knighthood? no"

The Knighthood is meaningless, but when its used deliberately to manipulate people's emotions, especially after a third rate writer- who happens to be a distant relative of my aunt- deliberately went out of his way to write fictionalized accounts distorting and trying to throw mud at the prophet and his family, it become mischief- especially when it is put to political use- as was when the Knighthood was given.

There is nothing in this entire episode to feel proud about, rather we need to feel ashamed at our condition that these colonial bas***** still consider us sh** to play these games with us. Rushdie can write whatever he wants, he'll get his due soon enough, but as soon as he becomes an instrument that is used to subdue parts of the "Third World", that is when like the Jihadists he becomes an instrument of the Shaitan. If he was smart enough he'd stay clear of all this but the poor bast*** is a damn fool, like Musharraf he wants to hurry his journey to the abyss...

#33 Posted by giani_240 on July 19, 2007 10:34:56 am


I am of Indian origin and a card carrying member of the VHP.


I'm sure your parents are proud of you...half of my family, the hindu half, would disown me if i had anything to do with the chaddis...


You (all) are always among the first to attack any muslim poster, and your theme is always anti-muslim - "islamofascists" or like.


why is it anti-muslim to point out the things that qualify as islamofascism..the cartoon protests, the pope thing, rushdie, brit-muslim orgs being against the teaching of the holocaust etc etc.

This isn't a small minority of extremists thing..25%, yes one out of 4, young american muslims think suicide bombing is ok..


you must be an ISI plant out to destroy whatever dialog is attempted.


why, yes...that's what I'm out to do...destroy any dialog that's attempted..specifically ones with indians going "oh the pakis are victims of terrorism, just like us"..If I can stop one indian from being a kuldip nayyar, it'll be worth it..

i dont know..a starbucks cashier and a representative of the united stated govt (national park service cop who gave me a speeding ticket) called me "sir". who needs the queen.

#37 Arjun

-sigh-

I thought that other folks talking garbage riled you up and given the chance, you could see reason. Apparently, not so.

1. I did not mention justification in my post did I? I mentioned cause and effect.

2. I did not condone any violence, rather I stated that violence in all forms is wrong. I sincerely believe that we can evolve past settling disputes by killing or maiming others.

3. If you do not see cause and effect, then you cannot elevate your thinking past what just happened. You do not have context for the causes and possible solutions. You are blinded and do nothing but fuel the agression (this applies to government sponsored violence as well as violence by smaller groups, fundamentalist religious types, and yes I am including mulsim fundoos here too).

4. I don't agree with what's going on (Israeli wall, palestinan refugee camps, islamic extremism, etc), but I can understand where it is coming from. All these activities are political moves in a larger chess game. To understand things does not mean you agree with them.

5. Why is understanding cruicial? So that we can treat the "other" as a fellow human. The most ignorant and arrogant policy is to think of the other as "inhuman", "evil", and other such things because then you can simply state that there is no reason to why they are doing what they are doing, so there is nothing to negotiate, and since they are inhuman, we can kill them all anyways. There can be no peace if we don't understand why the other is doing what is being done.

Hope you see my point of view.

Yes they are and I am proud to be a chaddi wala. Alas you are a disgrace to yours I am afraid.

Giani ji

One rarely meets a chaddhi wala. So it's a privilege.

I was curious, and looked up a few of your past interacts.

Would you mind commenting on how your views differ from those of any other regular Hindu' (secularist')s and leftist's?

Indian/Hindu Democracy and Justice in action:

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On January 10, 1993, Hajirabi Qureishi saw her husband and eldest son dragged from her house by Shiv Sainiks who used to hang around the local Sena shakha. When she tried to stop the sainiks, they pushed her off the parapet and she lost consciousness. She never saw her husband and son again.

Much before his inquiry into the 1992-93 Mumbai riots was complete, Justice Srikrishna wrote a letter to the government recommending immediate payment of compensation for missing persons in cases that he had personally investigated. The Qureishis headed that list. Hajirabi should have received Rs 4,00,000; instead she received Rs 2,00,000 eight years later for her husband. Compensation for her son Saleem Qureishi continues to form the subject matter of petitions being heard for the ump-teenth time in the Supreme Court.

Unable to cope with memories of their disappearance, Hajirabi left the Hindu-Muslim chawl that had been home for years to live in a Muslim ghetto. Every known and unknown Muslim organisation had its offices there, including SIMI. Yet they could not recruit Hajira's son Rizwan, his father's favourite.

Farooq Mapkar should have been an ideal candidate for SIMI. Shot in his shoulder on January 10, 1993, while praying inside a mosque, this bank employee saw a namazi being shot dead at point-blank range despite coming out of the mosque with his hands up. Along with the other namazis, Farooq was charged under Section 307.

Fourteen years later, Farooq continues to take leave from his job to attend court hearings in a case declared false by the Srikrishna commission. Contrast this with the case of sub-inspector Nikhil Kapse. The commission found him guilty for unprovoked firing that killed six innocent Muslims. But he was exonerated by a bunch of policemen entrusted with implementing the commission's findings.

The policemen didn't think it necessary to talk to those who testified in front of the commission about the incident involving Kapse. In these 14 years, Kapse hasn't faced a day's suspension. More than Farooq and Rizwan, Abdullah would have made the ideal jehadi. As a 12-year-old, he saw his handicapped father being dragged down the stairs of the madrassa where he taught and shot, pleading for water as he lay dying. Abdullah continued to live in the same madrassa. Eight years later, he joined the legal battle to put behind bars the policemen charged with murder for this incident. When he lost, the entire madrassa felt betrayed.

Even while lashing out at the government's indulgence towards policemen charged with murder, Abdullah was packing his bags for further studies in Deoband. He had graduated from his madrassa with flying colours, with full marks in logic. "Why don't you study law", i asked, "you could fight for your father". "My world is the hereafter", he replied. "He can't get involved in all this", added his teachers.

Mumbai's riot orphans have grown up deprived of their childhood, seen their mothers struggle alone - and often fail - to give them the education their fathers desired for them. They've seen those who led the violent mobs become ministers. A sitting judge pronounced these policemen guilty; his report became an election issue and made ministers out of nobodies, but has yet to be acted upon.

They've seen, over the last year, those who took revenge on their behalf by killing innocent Hindus, being made to pay, some even with life sentences.

Last week, as two Muslim accused in the July 11 train blasts in Mumbai confessed on TV (by a mysterious coincidence, all channels got hold of the footage exactly a year after the blasts), the news anchors screamed: "This man not only betrayed his nation, but also humanity. Doesn't your blood boil when you see this traitor"?

Narendra Modi could be accused of having done the same. No channel asks these questions about him. These double standards are now part of being a Muslim in India's "vibrant" democracy. We should be thankful hundreds of Kafeel Ahmeds haven't produced a swadeshi version of jehad.

The writer is a political commentator.

Hi Kaal,

Please help me out by pointing out my leftist or secular leanings in my earlier posts. However, do provide the context as well.

All I am asking Hindus to do is respond and interact using deceny and the high road. This does not mean bending over.

Even Vajpayjeeji took the initiative to talk to Pervez. Now you would not call him a leftist or secular would you ?

My suggestion to Arjun was simply to read the news and ask himself one simple question.

Are Hindus and IMs better off than their neighbors and if so why? I guess I should have been very explicit to him.

Giani ji

I haven't met any chaddi walas, except once as a kid. So am curious to learn what distinguishes RSS/VHP folks.

You don't have a very good reputation, you know.

Or are RSS/VHP/Chaddi walas too 'respect-all' and 'love-all' typers under a different brand name?
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Giani ji, having written that, re-read your #43, and think, may be, you are suggesting the "high-road" more than anything else?

That would be odd, since the whole reputation of RSS/VHP/Chaddi walas is of being 'low-roaders.'

I mean, what makes you so different from the two most respected Indians here, both committed secularists, dost-mittar sahib, and anil ji?

Something seems to be missing here, something I don't get. :(

Re: # 44

Pity you havent met more. Suggest you make an effort to meet some of them and you will find that the press that often sensationalizes has gotten it pretty wrong and often

Now if the VHP/RSS etc were the low roaders and into Muslim bashing as a primary aim then Arjun and you should have no problem with chaddiwalas.

There is no other brand. Dont need to hide, if thats what you mean. They are really nice and simple folks once you get to meet them. They believe in simple things like love your country, all laws should apply equally to everybody, be proud of your heritage etc.

You will also find a cross-section of people - rural folks, Venture capitalists as well as gold medalists - who are members.

Dont know Dost-Mittar personlly but have enjoyed reading his interacts. Did not find any Muslim bashing in them either. Since you respect Dost-Mitter why dont you follow his example.

I am different from Dost Mitter in that he is older and he lives in Canada, I think. Dont know much else about him.

hmm.. excellent analysis piece, Mr Pirzada!

"Yet 18 years later, the decision to knight Rushdie is laced with intellectual hypocrisy, flawed judgment and narrow political expediency."(author)

this is a bunch of bull -- Rushdie was given a Knighthood not for Muslim-Kushi by Satanic Verses -- that was not an equivalent of Ghazihood for Infidel-Kushi.

Rushdie is British and a British literary giant -- with the Knighthood the Britt simple recognized the obvious -- though a little belatedly -- it was not done to put ants in Muslim pants.

The problem with us Muslims is that we are in a perpetual state of carrying red ants in our green pants even when there are no ants -- or no pants.

This business of "Chooiee tu mooiee" has to stop someday – its becoming a drag.