Does Islam, in fact, Encourage Paedophilia?

ajeya,

Oh ho bhei, itna ghussa? Your question is fair … but the way you are asking, the discussion will quickly degenerate to the lowest common denominator. Let’s proceed carefully, without jumping the gun here.

One may find contradictory records on a given historical issue. It is therefore not surprising to find some controversial accounts regarding Muhammad also. Note that history gets murky with passage of time – accounts get changed, even fabricated; evidence gets more subjective; facts become increasingly elusive, and interpretation of facts, more elusive still. Various scenarios need to be weighed against each other in efforts to come up with a one that seems more likely than others.

Muhammad was not only a (self-proclaimed?) prophet, but also a head of state of sorts. Arguably, people had good reasons to falsely associate things with him in order to validate their own agendas.

Controversial accounts, where Muhammad allegedly had people killed for leaving Islam, for blaspheming him, etc., should be juxtaposed with other accounts that bring to light a very humble, compassionate man. There is a big disparity between the volumes of these two different types of accounts, with the latter outweighing the former by a considerable margin.

It is for such reasons that I have formed my opinion in favor of Muhammad, rather than against him. And I have no beef if a person looks at the same evidence and comes up with a different conclusion. What is important is to be careful in one’s analysis and to give the benefit of doubt, as needed, within a reasonable limits.

Sattar Sahib, no offense but your Islam has started sounding even more sillier than Tahmed sahib's.
You are saying Quran is not word of God, Mohammad made it up as he needed etc etc and then you come back and claim "I have complete regard for Quran and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)."
I am not sure if you are confused or being sophist.

anil,

I am not sure if the problem lies with tahmed’s Islam or with tahmed himself … but somewhere in there, Sahib has issues.

He made boastful claims about Quran and tried to prove that Quran is word of god. But as I showed, his claims are negated by Quran itself. However, Sahib conveniently ignores evidence that counters his views. I am not sure what to make of his self-aggrandizing claims of rationality and truth he has found in Quran. But that’s not all …

Since I highlighted these contradictions, Sahib has criticized and disparaged Ahmadis, Pew_Research, and myself. However, what he has NOT done is critical here: he has not even attempted to explain contradictions between his views and actual verses of Quran. Such denial borders on intellectual dishonesty. But there’s still more …

Before any of this, he was criticizing Sufis, without anyone asking. Previously he has criticized other faiths for no reason. Why the need to put down other faiths, I fail to understand. But when someone criticizes Islam, he gets very defensive. He therefore comes across as somewhat insecure and at times, even hypocritical.

I am not sure if he gets this self-righteousness from Islam, or if he has himself to blame. I guess I dunno … but I am hoping we can stop analyzing him … and move on.

#419 Posted by sattar2

[And why would you think otherwise? I have complete regard for Quran and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This man (pbuh) patiently bore atrocities for well being of his fellow men and set the bar high for all of us. ]

So you think that raping a woman the same night that he had murdered her father and brother is setting the bar high for us lowly creatures, eh?

Is that your logic-less faith, or logical argument speaking?

Sattar Sahib:

What is wrong in discovering Tahmed Sahib's Koran and Islam, rather Osama Bin Ladin's?

cliff
[..any muslim gives a shit about your opinion or thoughts on islam...]

Well - may be you guys should give a sh!t... not that I care either way... it's your funeral, enjoy... :)

I was just trying to dissuade kaal, the hindu "liberal", from being an apologist for this "faith"...

kaal

Gee thanks dude for not setting the flag on me... my life would have been shattered otherwise... :)

Naqsh (#397),

And why would you think otherwise? I have complete regard for Quran and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This man (pbuh) patiently bore atrocities for well being of his fellow men and set the bar high for all of us. Despite being seduced by promises of power, women, worldly glory, he remained steadfast and extremely humble in his ways. From historical accounts that I have read off and on, he would give the shirt off his back to the needy, and quietly starve in order to feed someone else.

What is also important is that, his message of Quran tells us that Allah has raised such men among all nations, throughout the history of mankind. I have little doubt that Krishna, Buddha, Ram, Confucius, Jesus were such men, and I have extreme admiration for all of them. In men like these, what’s not to love?

mohar (#396),

You have a point, which did cross my mind as I was writing my earlier response.

Faith, as long as one keeps it to himself, should be left alone. But when faith turns into deprecating, hateful, or violent ideology, it should be defied, exposed, challenged, and held back (at times I even poke fun at it, but it’s all in good faith. And I dish out the same treatment to Ahmadis when they go overboard …)

And tahmed “beaten into submission” was not my point at all. It is unfortunate that he himself saw our debate in this light and spitefully mentioned “sattar winning a medal”. What the hell?? This was not about winning or losing the argument. The point all along was inconsistency of his reasoning, which he failed to acknowledge. I only wish he, and others, would stop disparaging people for their faith. One should have no problem with Sufis, Christians, Ahmadis, Hindus … as long as they remain peaceful in their ways. Rest is all esoteric, sophistic garbage and a load of intellectual masturbation; which, as mentioned earlier, is not bad for coffee chats, but only as long as I am not footing the bill for everyone.

And this point got lost in the heated altercation between Sahib and myself. And life goes on …

haha ok ajeya sir whatever you say.What was the book,Rum and Martini, or something?

#415 Posted by rahul_capri

[Hey kaal,My definition of a liberal is someone who is willing to try other people's shoes;and by that definition you are probaly second to none.Of course,I m still stuck with the fantasy of one size fits all khaRa-oon,so I m less liberal than you. ]

Don't go orgasmic just yet. The second half of kaalchakra's sentence does imply that Islam can be evil when Muslims around you DO NOT have significant power.

So put the champagne back, and crack open the English grammer book again.

Hey kaal,My definition of a liberal is someone who is willing to try other people's shoes;and by that definition you are probaly second to none.Of course,I m still stuck with the fantasy of one size fits all khaRa-oon,so I m less liberal than you.

Re: # 411
PM thnnx.In case its not clear,Let me mention that I was also having this dialog with myself via you;since when I read your responses I think that if I had your intellectual rigor, I would have written something similar.

Echo bhra,

Thanks for the clarification.

My acess to the internet is severely limited. If anyone has addressed me since my last post some days ago, please wait a couple more for a reply, if still interested.

#362 Rahul

Hey Rahul, Thanks for doing my thinking. Trite and disappointing as this may sound, I honestly think that the answer is "all of the above" in some degree. And even when the fulfilment you mention may not be forthcoming wrt (d), there's always the attraction of undestanding other minds better.