Lal Masjid: Lessons Learnt

#145 Posted by zeemax on July 29, 2007 1:57:46 am


Bhai ... do you not understand that circumstances change all the time?


bhai...The circumstances didn't change..they were the same then...you were just deluding yourself..remember, the news about the predator attack came out just a few weeks after you gave us your assessment...

#144 Posted by arjun2,

Yes all these belonged to the 'baked ninja chicks' as per you.

#142 Posted by arjun2,

Bhai ... do you not understand that circumstances change all the time?

Anyway, I'm here and so are you. And I will look forward to the same conversation with you.

#141 Posted by HP,

HP, Umme-Hassaan was the leader of the 5,000 strong 'Burqa Brigade'. Abdul Aziz was the cleric for his fiery Jumma sermons to the men, and Abdul-Rasheed was the media man. That was the structure.

I would suggest you hear some speeches of Umme-Hassan on youtube.

This woman carries an aura of greatness. Which is why she decided to leave to carry on. She was under no husband's influence otherwise she would have left with Abdul Aziz (she is Abdul Aziz's wife) in a burqa (to meet Shaukat Aziz BTW) with full amnesty. She didn't. It was also easy for her to lay down her life with rest of the girls (over a thousand who died) but she didn't do that either. She knew she could do better.

zeemax: you have zero credibility..let me repeat..ZERO credibility...

some of us still remember you telling us how pakiland held all the cards in it's relation with the US, how it got the afghan FM fired because he made some anti-pakiland statements and how a "grim faced" abizaid was read the riot act by mushy...

the reality was that mushy and pakiland were greasing up and bending over everytime dubya or cheney said yo...

Zeemax

"Of-course you know that the real motivator/leader of Lal Masjid was neither Abdul-Rasheed Ghazi, nor Abdul Aziz."

No, I did not know that. How could that be when both brothers and their entourage and followers did not even consider women as their equal?

I think you are taking propaganda at its face value. The poor woman suffered just like her other sisters in the Pakistani society suffer for their overblown allegiance to their husbands or the other males in the family.

She ended up sacrificing her son because the society would not allow her to go against her husband's wishes. Even though that would have saved her kid.

I have great sympathy for her but I am not ready to accept her the leader of those fanatics.

#137 Posted by HP,

"we were not given independence in 1947, a country was given to us".

This so true. In fact, all of what Hameed Gul says is true.

He's no idiot Sir. He is a firm supporter of the Pakistan Army which has been used and abused and tarnished to no end.

#136 Posted by masadi,

masadi saheb, there will be another two final years of the usual contrived democracy experiment, and then an Iranian style revolution.

This man, Musharraf, who had ridiculed and demonized the same politicians like Benazir, is now begging them for help. Does anyone want Benazir back? I don't think so. The people still vote for her father, not her. But they don't understand she has thrown out her father's manifesto.

They'll know better once she's back for the third time.

BTW, the constitution allows only two terms, so the whole thing is a joke by musharraf just to save his life.

#137 Posted by HP,

Yes. That is agreed in full.

I don't know about Umme-Hassaan though. She said she's Punjabi in interviews. Where's she from? Any idea?

Of-course you know that the real motivator/leader of Lal Masjid was neither Abdul-Rasheed Ghazi, nor Abdul Aziz. It was Umme-Hassaan who decided to walk out in the final stage with 27 girls to carry on the movement. And noone has seen a tear in her eyes over the murder of her toddler son during the operation, Hassaan.

asadi,

A person of your grasp of Pakistani politics does not need to quote from the western sources.
You know without any help from starfor what game is being played out.
I think Gen. Hameed Gul is an idiot but he said something on TV that struck me as very true. He said, "we were not given independence in 1947, a country was given to us".

I hope you understand this too.

Think-tank says president looking for a way out
By Our Correspondent (Dawn News)

WASHINGTON, July 28: President Pervez Musharraf has been weakened to the point that he is forced to seek a compromise with his opponents in an effort to salvage his government, says a US think-tank while commenting on the Musharraf-Benazir meeting.

In its latest report on Pakistan, Stratfor claims that President Musharraf has no option but to seek the help of mainstream political forces to deal with the growing crisis of governance and militancy.

“The recent tensions with Washington over the US threats to engage in unilateral military action against jihadists in the northwest -- which quickly followed the restoration of the Supreme Court's chief justice -- seem to have been the last straw,” the report said.

The think-tank claimed that on Friday, corps commanders and agency heads asked Gen. Musharraf to step down. But `stepping down does not necessarily mean that President Musharraf would leave the political scene altogether. Rather he likely will be forced to relinquish the post of army chief and try to stay on as a civilian president while sharing powers with a coalition government led by former prime minister Benazir Bhutto following parliamentary elections’.

The report, however, warns that it is difficult to say if President Musharraf will be successful in his efforts to reach a compromise ‘as these efforts could be too little too late’.

----

Stratfor is a priviate intelligence group {in fact it is described by the business magazine Barron's as the Private CIA), where Omar Bakri's disciple, Kamran Bokhari, the Jihadist works...

#133 Posted by zeemax

"Yes HP the brothers were Punjabi Baluch, just as there are Punjabi Kashmiris in Central Punjab, and even Punjabi Pushtoons in Mianwali. They are all Punjabis."

Punjabi and kashmir share many values so they intermingle with a lot more ease than the Balochis now living in Punjab with Punjabis. Almost 30% of sindhis are actually of Baloch origin. They identify themselves more with Sindh issues but a baloch is a baloch. Unless you know them well you cannot understand the subtle differences.

Punjabi Baloch are punjabi because the British changed the boundaries.

I too finally agree on something with Ajeya. I watch Sa ra ga ma pa religiously and I also notice that when these kids start out they are like most of the regular Indian or Pakistani kids but soon a transformation takes place. They became what they are not to satisfy the TV producers or the audience.

But when I look back, things haven't changed a lot. The western culture especially via the TV and movies had influenced us back then. I think we are in the west now because we too were smitten by the same bug.

Frankly, I have not tried to raise my kids in the old ways. They are what they are, western in every which way. I never tried to force the values that I carried with me from Pakistan.

#131 Posted by HP,

Yes HP the brothers were Punjabi Baluch, just as there are Punjabi Kashmiris in Central Punjab, and even Punjabi Pushtoons in Mianwali. They are all Punjabis.

How many Pashtuns did anyone see in the reoccupation of Lal Masjid on Friday?

As for your point re social differences between Afghans and Pakistani Pashtoons, it is true that leadership struggles exist. For example, the Peshawar residents resented Afghans coming in, buying up, and barricading entire neighborhoods. Further, they took over the transport business with the preferential licensing terms allowed by the government of the time, pushing many locals out of business.

But the pattern changed after 9/11. There's a lot more sympathy for Afghans in NWFP now.

#129 Posted by ajeya

The white-man-wannabees celebrate Valentine's day, while 90% of Christians mostly would spit on Hinduism. What can I say? ...what counted in todays world most was imitating the lewdness of the West. Without that, no amount of singing talent or training in Classical music is good enough.

Thank you for revealing your thoughts. I'm so glad that despite your venom against Pakistan and Islam, you are no arjun_m or mohar11.

My friend, what you're saying is the inevitable consequence of globalisation. It is not only economic, but HAS to be cultural in order to be fully implemented. That is why you see conflict between people who would like to retain cultural values (while at the same time participate in economic globalisation) and those who would like to discard cultural values to hasten the process of integration. The cases of point are the underwear ad in India, and the mimicking of football cheerleaders I posted in Karachi.

FDI resulting from globalisation cannot be fully accommodated unless cultural similarities exist between the host country and the guest country. And that's where a huge sticking point lies. That's what is upsetting you.

If I had a choice, I would keep the culture and do without FDI.