Pukhtoon Khan July 29, 2007
#89 Posted by jayp on July 31, 2007 1:50:15 am
YLH,
Instead of keep repeating the same posts about some persons views on Gandhi, try and make some cogent story about how the situation in pakistan can be traced to Gandhi.
Now many even on chowk accept that partition of pakistan is inevitable and only sindh is the viable part that will be left, as one can see a coherent analysis how the TNT and the consequent jinnah - islam is responsible for the current state of pakistan.
Being an educated person, dont be like a jihadi, keep repeating the same posts, like learning the koran by rote only to follow instructions from a mullah to kill.
Think...YLH...think, think for your self, dont even follow a person even when he claims to be a prophet.
Instead of keep repeating the same posts about some persons views on Gandhi, try and make some cogent story about how the situation in pakistan can be traced to Gandhi.
Now many even on chowk accept that partition of pakistan is inevitable and only sindh is the viable part that will be left, as one can see a coherent analysis how the TNT and the consequent jinnah - islam is responsible for the current state of pakistan.
Being an educated person, dont be like a jihadi, keep repeating the same posts, like learning the koran by rote only to follow instructions from a mullah to kill.
Think...YLH...think, think for your self, dont even follow a person even when he claims to be a prophet.
#88 Posted by jayp on July 31, 2007 1:16:32 am
one way street,
Pakistan is on a one way street to talibanisation. The pak army will not attack waziristan and it is a matter of time, the uS will strike, and more of the pak army will die in their barracks, killed by the suicide bombers.
There is no defference between the pak army and the taliban, and a few occasional killings by the army are only a show for teh americans.
The pak leaders keep asking the US for evidence of Osama in pakistan, while they are making no efforts to find him.
The same is true for Dawood Ibrahim, they want india to tell them where dawood is. This tamasha cannot go on for ever, the americans are getting fed up with this type tricks. There should be some notion of sovereignity, some determination to find the criminals and one cannot expect another country to give proof.
Time to iraquise pakistan, finish off the army and rest will follow.
Pakistan is on a one way street to talibanisation. The pak army will not attack waziristan and it is a matter of time, the uS will strike, and more of the pak army will die in their barracks, killed by the suicide bombers.
There is no defference between the pak army and the taliban, and a few occasional killings by the army are only a show for teh americans.
The pak leaders keep asking the US for evidence of Osama in pakistan, while they are making no efforts to find him.
The same is true for Dawood Ibrahim, they want india to tell them where dawood is. This tamasha cannot go on for ever, the americans are getting fed up with this type tricks. There should be some notion of sovereignity, some determination to find the criminals and one cannot expect another country to give proof.
Time to iraquise pakistan, finish off the army and rest will follow.
#87 Posted by jayp on July 31, 2007 1:08:47 am
HP 85
Your simple questions will never be answered by any pakistani, because it will be an admission of the effects of 60 years of k for kafir education in pakistan. All of the pakistanis, whether educated in the madrassa or not subscribe to the TNT view that muslims cannot live with people of another religion. The madrassas use the koran format and translates the TNT ideology into jihad.
The educated like the YLH and tahmed with the non-madrassa education provide a westernised pretense and support for the works of teh jihadis. They are the ones to state repeatedly that hoodood is a Zia creation while ignoring that several other rulers including Mushy refused to change any aspect of it, primarily because the pakistanis all like that, because it is in line with koran.
The same with the taliban. They are supported by the collections all through pakistan, supported by the YLHs and thameds alike. The poor jihadis cannot be funding their own jihad.
The pak army at the foot soldier level are all from the madrassas. The only place a madrassa graduste can go is either to become a mullah or join army. It is this rank and file support of the army that prevents mushy from taking any action against the taliban. Some of the madrassa graduate join taliban, some join pak army, there is no distinction between the two, in terms of background.
Irrespective of what the YLH will say, jihad is central to islam and no one is going to prevent the teaching of it. The only way it can be controlled is only by dominating the muslim state by another power. Jihadis are not there in saudi, turkey etc because the people are not freely allowed to follow koran, Pak elections and democracy will be bad for the world, as the jihadis will come to power.
Partitioning of pakistan is the only option.
Your simple questions will never be answered by any pakistani, because it will be an admission of the effects of 60 years of k for kafir education in pakistan. All of the pakistanis, whether educated in the madrassa or not subscribe to the TNT view that muslims cannot live with people of another religion. The madrassas use the koran format and translates the TNT ideology into jihad.
The educated like the YLH and tahmed with the non-madrassa education provide a westernised pretense and support for the works of teh jihadis. They are the ones to state repeatedly that hoodood is a Zia creation while ignoring that several other rulers including Mushy refused to change any aspect of it, primarily because the pakistanis all like that, because it is in line with koran.
The same with the taliban. They are supported by the collections all through pakistan, supported by the YLHs and thameds alike. The poor jihadis cannot be funding their own jihad.
The pak army at the foot soldier level are all from the madrassas. The only place a madrassa graduste can go is either to become a mullah or join army. It is this rank and file support of the army that prevents mushy from taking any action against the taliban. Some of the madrassa graduate join taliban, some join pak army, there is no distinction between the two, in terms of background.
Irrespective of what the YLH will say, jihad is central to islam and no one is going to prevent the teaching of it. The only way it can be controlled is only by dominating the muslim state by another power. Jihadis are not there in saudi, turkey etc because the people are not freely allowed to follow koran, Pak elections and democracy will be bad for the world, as the jihadis will come to power.
Partitioning of pakistan is the only option.
#86 Posted by zeemax on July 31, 2007 12:11:33 am
#84 Posted by HP,
Hmmm . so now you hide behind masadi.
Well ...you could now have at-least found escape in the line that it indeed was a manufactured drama by agencies in league with the brothers which went seriously wrong.
That would have been a better refuge.
Hmmm . so now you hide behind masadi.
Well ...you could now have at-least found escape in the line that it indeed was a manufactured drama by agencies in league with the brothers which went seriously wrong.
That would have been a better refuge.
#85 Posted by HP on July 30, 2007 11:33:35 pm
#18 Posted by Urstruly
“Look, we belonging to the sensible segment of the society, where we do not have immediately something at stake here, shoul not find every door of hope closed for good. Pakistani nation, given the chance has always made the right decisions for itself. There is a way to save our society from Iraqization, which is to support the movements such as independence of judiciary and true democracy. Look, no army in the world can fight people. The defeated and humilitaed but proud people of Iraq and Afghnaistan has proven that to the worlds most fearsome war machine of US and NATO combined. NaPak fouj kis khait ki mooli hay.”
Let’s stop this rhetoric now. I am not about to bring the whole saga of Iraq and Afghanistan and what the US did there in to the debate. I have posted enough on those subjects and I don’t need to repeat what my stand is.
Right now we are concerned with Pakistan and what is happening there NOW. The Islamists are bent upon destroying that country. Yeah I can say Sindh would still be there when Pakistan dies and I can say that the Islamist will never be able to capture Sindh but we are talking about a country where you and I may not have much on stake now but for various reasons we do need to understand what is going on there.
Let me ask you this: we all know that the Taliban were a creation of the Pak army and they were nurtured and helped by them. Was the Pak army interested in Islam at that time or they were just using the Taliban to increase their sphere of influence?
Now tell me if you think the Pak army is sold out the liberals and the US then who is supporting the Taliban now.
Both of us have enough political understanding and knowledge to know that an enterprise of the Taliban level does not run on Zakat alone.
Now if we agree that Taliban are financially supported by some, then we do need to figure out who those angels are and what interests they have in financing and promoting the most non political segment of the Pakistani politics, the FATA tribes.
If we agree that the Pakistan army or the ISI in 1994 were not interested in Islam then can we now safely assume that perhaps the forces that are now supporting the Taliban are not interested in Islam or Jihad but have some other motives to provide the financial and military support to the Taliban.
Simple questions and I hope you have simple answers too.
“Look, we belonging to the sensible segment of the society, where we do not have immediately something at stake here, shoul not find every door of hope closed for good. Pakistani nation, given the chance has always made the right decisions for itself. There is a way to save our society from Iraqization, which is to support the movements such as independence of judiciary and true democracy. Look, no army in the world can fight people. The defeated and humilitaed but proud people of Iraq and Afghnaistan has proven that to the worlds most fearsome war machine of US and NATO combined. NaPak fouj kis khait ki mooli hay.”
Let’s stop this rhetoric now. I am not about to bring the whole saga of Iraq and Afghanistan and what the US did there in to the debate. I have posted enough on those subjects and I don’t need to repeat what my stand is.
Right now we are concerned with Pakistan and what is happening there NOW. The Islamists are bent upon destroying that country. Yeah I can say Sindh would still be there when Pakistan dies and I can say that the Islamist will never be able to capture Sindh but we are talking about a country where you and I may not have much on stake now but for various reasons we do need to understand what is going on there.
Let me ask you this: we all know that the Taliban were a creation of the Pak army and they were nurtured and helped by them. Was the Pak army interested in Islam at that time or they were just using the Taliban to increase their sphere of influence?
Now tell me if you think the Pak army is sold out the liberals and the US then who is supporting the Taliban now.
Both of us have enough political understanding and knowledge to know that an enterprise of the Taliban level does not run on Zakat alone.
Now if we agree that Taliban are financially supported by some, then we do need to figure out who those angels are and what interests they have in financing and promoting the most non political segment of the Pakistani politics, the FATA tribes.
If we agree that the Pakistan army or the ISI in 1994 were not interested in Islam then can we now safely assume that perhaps the forces that are now supporting the Taliban are not interested in Islam or Jihad but have some other motives to provide the financial and military support to the Taliban.
Simple questions and I hope you have simple answers too.
#84 Posted by HP on July 30, 2007 10:49:28 pm
#18 Posted by Urstruly
“the hotbed of sedition is not in NWFP , but in the capital of Pakistan,”
This is so far removed from the reality that I should not even respond to this but I will respond to it just to show you how clumsy you are in your debate.
Since when couple of suicide bombing incidents make a city of at least a million people, the hotbed of sedition? How do some gangsters from the Lal Mosque-who were too good to take some unarmed women out of their homes- and caved in the minute the army arrived, create a hotbed of sedition?
I am at a loss as to why you are complaining about the death of some Girls and women when they had ample opportunity to leave the compound. Some of them including the chief Mullah did leave in Burqa. Has any thing happened to them? They are still alive and making one false statement after another.
Sorry Urstruly, you should blame the mullah brothers of the mosque who did not allow the girls to leave. I think you should ask the parents of those who died there as to why their kids were still there after a six month of standoff. You should ask their parents why they allowed their little daughters to pick up Danda when they certainly were underage to do that.
I have written it before and I will write this again: the mullahs in Lal mosque were looking for some dead bodies to carry on their shoulders and they got them. Now what is stopping them? Go ahead and put those bodies on display all over the country. They can’t do that because despite the bodies’ Pakistani people rejected what the mullahs used those little girls and women for.
God Bless Mullah, he can ask people to die in the hope that they will go to paradise and mullah would have some more political power to boast.
#33 Posted by GT
“Could it be the case that the common woman in Pakistan is reacting to state oppression by coalescing around Islamic ideals”
GT you are beginning to disappoint me. What state oppression are we talking about here? The Islamists in Pakistan have never been oppressed by Pakistani state and that is the fact of life.
That is the crux of the matter Bengalis were oppressed, Sindhi and Baloch still are but do you know how they respond? They never use their mother and sisters and little daughters to end the oppression. The women that you saw at Lal Masjid were being used and abused by both the mullah and the military for their own political games.
#38 Posted by zeemax
My post was for Asadi and both of us have enough information to understand the context of what I wrote. Sorry if that is little beyond you. Instead of hyperbole and disinformation, if you start paying attention to details you will too figure out what I wrote. It will take me a long time to explain every thing to you and presently I have no interest in that.
“the hotbed of sedition is not in NWFP , but in the capital of Pakistan,”
This is so far removed from the reality that I should not even respond to this but I will respond to it just to show you how clumsy you are in your debate.
Since when couple of suicide bombing incidents make a city of at least a million people, the hotbed of sedition? How do some gangsters from the Lal Mosque-who were too good to take some unarmed women out of their homes- and caved in the minute the army arrived, create a hotbed of sedition?
I am at a loss as to why you are complaining about the death of some Girls and women when they had ample opportunity to leave the compound. Some of them including the chief Mullah did leave in Burqa. Has any thing happened to them? They are still alive and making one false statement after another.
Sorry Urstruly, you should blame the mullah brothers of the mosque who did not allow the girls to leave. I think you should ask the parents of those who died there as to why their kids were still there after a six month of standoff. You should ask their parents why they allowed their little daughters to pick up Danda when they certainly were underage to do that.
I have written it before and I will write this again: the mullahs in Lal mosque were looking for some dead bodies to carry on their shoulders and they got them. Now what is stopping them? Go ahead and put those bodies on display all over the country. They can’t do that because despite the bodies’ Pakistani people rejected what the mullahs used those little girls and women for.
God Bless Mullah, he can ask people to die in the hope that they will go to paradise and mullah would have some more political power to boast.
#33 Posted by GT
“Could it be the case that the common woman in Pakistan is reacting to state oppression by coalescing around Islamic ideals”
GT you are beginning to disappoint me. What state oppression are we talking about here? The Islamists in Pakistan have never been oppressed by Pakistani state and that is the fact of life.
That is the crux of the matter Bengalis were oppressed, Sindhi and Baloch still are but do you know how they respond? They never use their mother and sisters and little daughters to end the oppression. The women that you saw at Lal Masjid were being used and abused by both the mullah and the military for their own political games.
#38 Posted by zeemax
My post was for Asadi and both of us have enough information to understand the context of what I wrote. Sorry if that is little beyond you. Instead of hyperbole and disinformation, if you start paying attention to details you will too figure out what I wrote. It will take me a long time to explain every thing to you and presently I have no interest in that.
#83 Posted by rf786 on July 30, 2007 9:41:22 pm
Dear writer,
Childish to say the least, unaccurate and boorish article.
Putting UAE & Finland together, Sheikhdom with democratic welfare state, poor, very poor.
Grow up.
Childish to say the least, unaccurate and boorish article.
Putting UAE & Finland together, Sheikhdom with democratic welfare state, poor, very poor.
Grow up.
#82 Posted by echoboom on July 30, 2007 9:00:32 pm
Here a Nation acts with pride & dignity & doesn not give in to the goraa-goondaas: Salaam India, Salaam.
and then there are our Cantonment kuttaa who is earning blood-money to confine, capture, kill those who are mujahids and fighting hard to get the goraa-baboons out of Muslim Lands...
This Cantonment & colonied "ELITE" will InshaAllah see a day soon when they will be dragged on the streets of all muslim lands & given exemplary treatment so that KanjarRs will ever dare to raise their ugly heads & try to act western ever again.
_____________________________________________________________

Scrum ... Reunited with famly in India, Dr Haneef is vowing to fight for his right to work in Australia / AP / The Associated Press
Mohamed Haneef to fight to have visa restored
July 31, 2007 07:24am
THE Indian doctor detained for more than three weeks in Australia on false terrorism-related charges vowed overnight to "fight" to have his visa restored so he could return to work in the country.
Mohamed Haneef, 27, also demanded the Australian authorities apologise to India over the affair, and did not rule out taking legal action.
"I would like to return to Australia, I would like my visa back, I will fight for that," the former Gold Coast Hospital registrar said in the southern Indian city of Bangalore, his hometown.
"I enjoyed my time working at the Gold Coast Hospital and am saddened that until my visa has been returned that I am unable to return and work as a doctor there," said the medic, who was calm but visibly angered over his ordeal.
Dr Haneef was held in custody for almost four weeks and charged with providing "reckless" support to a terrorist group in connection with last month's failed car bombings in London and Glasgow.
But the case against him collapsed on Friday due to a lack of evidence.
A day later he was allowed to fly home to Bangalore, where he was reunited with his wife and saw his one-month-old baby for the first time.
Dr Haneef's Australian lawyer, Peter Russo, earlier foreshadowed legal action for damages to the doctor's reputation, but when asked if he intended to sue the Australian Government over his ordeal, Dr Haneef replied: "I have not sought any legal advice on this matter at this time; that will be later on."
"I don't expect an apology from the Australian Government or the authorities, but I would appreciate if they apologise to my peace-loving country and citizens," he said.
Asked if he felt he had been victimised as an Asian Muslim, Dr Haneef replied: "There might be an element of that.
"Islam narrates peace and love and nothing else. I am a true Islam follower."
Not sorry
Prime Minister John Howard had earlier dismissed calls for an inquiry into the bungled case and said the Muslim medic should not expect an apology.
Mr Howard said that when it came to preventing attacks, it was "better to be safe than sorry".
And he stood by Immigration minister Kevin Andrews's decision to cancel Dr Haneef's visa on character grounds, saying he was acting on "secret information".
Mr Andrews said he was keen to release the information but was consulting the commonwealth solicitor-general on whether he could do so.
Visa push
Meanwhile, Mr Russo has launched action in the Federal Court of Australia to have his visa restored.
He said he had a "strong case" to get Dr Haneef his visa back.
"We really need to restore his reputation," Mr Russo said. "The problem that we have in relation to whether or not we sue the (Australian) Government ... we haven't had the opportunity to sit down so that he can be fully informed of what all of his legal rights are."
Dr Haneef said: "I need a little time to think; I want to spend my time with my family at this time and see how it goes."
Mr Russo, who accompanied his client back to India, said Dr Haneef had endured an ordeal that was "difficult to comprehend".
"I found him to be a very humble and honest man and it gave me a great deal of honour and pleasure to assist him," Mr Russo said.
He said his client had cooperated fully with police, and even took the initiative to contact British authorities before his arrest.
Dr Haneef owned a mobile phone SIM card allegedly used in last month's attempted attacks in Britain. The doctor said he had given the card away in Britain before moving to Australia to work.
"He was detained without charge for up to 12 days, and I know that in different countries that isn't regarded as a big issue, but in Australia we have a system that says that shouldn't happen," Mr Russo said.
Calls are mounting for an inquiry into the Haneef case after police were described as bumbling "Keystone Cops" over their handling of the investigation.
But Mr Russo said Australian police were merely "like everyone in the world; there's good ones and there's bad ones".
and then there are our Cantonment kuttaa who is earning blood-money to confine, capture, kill those who are mujahids and fighting hard to get the goraa-baboons out of Muslim Lands...
This Cantonment & colonied "ELITE" will InshaAllah see a day soon when they will be dragged on the streets of all muslim lands & given exemplary treatment so that KanjarRs will ever dare to raise their ugly heads & try to act western ever again.
_____________________________________________________________

Scrum ... Reunited with famly in India, Dr Haneef is vowing to fight for his right to work in Australia / AP / The Associated Press
Mohamed Haneef to fight to have visa restored
July 31, 2007 07:24am
THE Indian doctor detained for more than three weeks in Australia on false terrorism-related charges vowed overnight to "fight" to have his visa restored so he could return to work in the country.
Mohamed Haneef, 27, also demanded the Australian authorities apologise to India over the affair, and did not rule out taking legal action.
"I would like to return to Australia, I would like my visa back, I will fight for that," the former Gold Coast Hospital registrar said in the southern Indian city of Bangalore, his hometown.
"I enjoyed my time working at the Gold Coast Hospital and am saddened that until my visa has been returned that I am unable to return and work as a doctor there," said the medic, who was calm but visibly angered over his ordeal.
Dr Haneef was held in custody for almost four weeks and charged with providing "reckless" support to a terrorist group in connection with last month's failed car bombings in London and Glasgow.
But the case against him collapsed on Friday due to a lack of evidence.
A day later he was allowed to fly home to Bangalore, where he was reunited with his wife and saw his one-month-old baby for the first time.
Dr Haneef's Australian lawyer, Peter Russo, earlier foreshadowed legal action for damages to the doctor's reputation, but when asked if he intended to sue the Australian Government over his ordeal, Dr Haneef replied: "I have not sought any legal advice on this matter at this time; that will be later on."
"I don't expect an apology from the Australian Government or the authorities, but I would appreciate if they apologise to my peace-loving country and citizens," he said.
Asked if he felt he had been victimised as an Asian Muslim, Dr Haneef replied: "There might be an element of that.
"Islam narrates peace and love and nothing else. I am a true Islam follower."
Not sorry
Prime Minister John Howard had earlier dismissed calls for an inquiry into the bungled case and said the Muslim medic should not expect an apology.
Mr Howard said that when it came to preventing attacks, it was "better to be safe than sorry".
And he stood by Immigration minister Kevin Andrews's decision to cancel Dr Haneef's visa on character grounds, saying he was acting on "secret information".
Mr Andrews said he was keen to release the information but was consulting the commonwealth solicitor-general on whether he could do so.
Visa push
Meanwhile, Mr Russo has launched action in the Federal Court of Australia to have his visa restored.
He said he had a "strong case" to get Dr Haneef his visa back.
"We really need to restore his reputation," Mr Russo said. "The problem that we have in relation to whether or not we sue the (Australian) Government ... we haven't had the opportunity to sit down so that he can be fully informed of what all of his legal rights are."
Dr Haneef said: "I need a little time to think; I want to spend my time with my family at this time and see how it goes."
Mr Russo, who accompanied his client back to India, said Dr Haneef had endured an ordeal that was "difficult to comprehend".
"I found him to be a very humble and honest man and it gave me a great deal of honour and pleasure to assist him," Mr Russo said.
He said his client had cooperated fully with police, and even took the initiative to contact British authorities before his arrest.
Dr Haneef owned a mobile phone SIM card allegedly used in last month's attempted attacks in Britain. The doctor said he had given the card away in Britain before moving to Australia to work.
"He was detained without charge for up to 12 days, and I know that in different countries that isn't regarded as a big issue, but in Australia we have a system that says that shouldn't happen," Mr Russo said.
Calls are mounting for an inquiry into the Haneef case after police were described as bumbling "Keystone Cops" over their handling of the investigation.
But Mr Russo said Australian police were merely "like everyone in the world; there's good ones and there's bad ones".
#81 Posted by MantoLives on July 30, 2007 8:29:10 pm
PPS: "Hatred for Gandhi" ... "over doing it"
Unless telling the facts like they are is "over doing it", I cannot agree with such a statement.
While I was only responding to JayP's usual abuse, here are the facts:
Achyuth Patwardhan, one of the Socialist stalwarts in the Congress, has given a remarkably candid and self critical analysis of the Congress Party vis-a-vis Khilafat: ’It is, however, useful to recognise our share of this error of misdirection. To begin with, I am convinced that looking back upon the course of development of the freedom movement, THE ’HIMALAYAN ERROR’ of Gandhiji’s leadership was the support he extended on behalf of the Congress and the Indian people to the Khilafat Movement at the end of the World War I. This has proved to be a disastrous error which has brought in its wake a series of harmful consequences. On merits, it was a thoroughly reactionary step. The Khilafat was totally unworthy of support of the Progressive Muslims. Kemel Pasha established this solid fact by abolition of the Khilafat. The abolition of the Khilafat was widely welcomed by enlightened Muslim opinion the world over and Kemel was an undoubted hero of all young Muslims straining against Imperialist domination. But apart from the fact that Khilafat was an unworthy reactionary cause, Mahatma Gandhi had to align himself with a sectarian revivalist Muslim Leadership of clerics and maulvis. He was thus unwittingly responsible for jettisoning sane, secular, modernist leadership among the Muslims of India and foisting upon the Indian Muslims a theocratic orthodoxy of the Maulvis. Maulana Mohammed Ali’s speeches read today appear strangely incoherent and out of tune with the spirit of secular political freedom. The Congress Movement which released the forces of religious liberalism and reform among the Hindus, and evoked a rational scientific outlook, placed the Muslims of India under the spell of orthodoxy and religious superstition by their support to the Khilafat leadership. Rationalist leaders like Jinnah were rebuffed by this attitude of Congress and Gandhi. This is the background of the psychological rift between Congress and the Muslim League’.
and
’Since the Khilafat agitation, things have changed and it has been one of the many injuries inflicted on India by the encouragement of the Khilafat crusade, that the inner Muslim feeling of hatred against ’unbelievers’ has sprung up, naked and unashamed, as in years gone by’.
and
A terrible and gruesome fallout of the disastrous Khilafat experiment of Mahatma Gandhi was the Moplah Rebellion in Malabar District in 1921. According to the Report of the ENQUIRY COMMITTEE OF SERVANTS OF INDIA SOCIETY, the number of Hindus murdered by Moplah Muslims was 1500, the number of Hindus forcibly converted 20,000 and the value of property looted about Rs three crore. When the national and local leaders appealed to the virulently anti-Hindu Moplah Muslims in the name of Mahatma Gandhi to follow the ways of peace and non-violence, they replied bluntly with Islamic fervour: ’GANDHI IS A KAFIR, HOW CAN HE BE OUR LEADER?’ Dr Anne Besant declared: ’The Moplah Muslim marauders murdered and plundered abundantly, killed or drove away all Hindus who would not apostatize. Somewhere about 100,000 people were driven from their homes with nothing but the clothes they had on, stripped of everything’. She also accused all the Khilafat religious preachers for all this terrible atrocities. J Campbell, chief of the Intelligence Department, Government of India, held the Khilafat leaders squarely responsible for inciting racial hatred resulting in Moplah carnage.
http://www.newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06aug/2208ss1.htm
Mahatma Gandhi’s attempt to harness the feeling for the cause of national independence backfired and led to the uprising in Kerala known as the Moplah Rebellion. It took the British several months to put it down at the cost of thousands of lives.
Moplahs were very much part of the grand Khilafat Movement that Gandhi was spearheading and Gandhi kept apologising for them
The Dravidian Moplahs had directed their revolt with class venom against some Aryan high-caste Hindus with property as well as Britishers: Brahmanical elements tried to use that to spark a crisis in Hindu-Muslim relations all over India. Gandhi tried to hold a balance: like the U.S. press and the Negro nationalists who read it he stressed that the Moplah uprising could be made part of a united drive for independence by Indians of all sects.But he was also aware of the pan-Islamic dimension: in a December 1921 call to the British to suspend their attacks against the Moplahs, he was to observe that the Moplahs saw themselves as fighting for a religion with methods they considered religious: Yogesh Chadha, Rediscovering Gandhi (London: Century 1997) p. 254.
And lets not forget the Tehreek-e-Hijrat Fatwa that Gandhi’s right hand man Azad gave to Muslims which gave Muslims two options "JEHAD" or "HIJRAT".
The Muslim Ulema, thinkers and activists called for the boycott of foreign goods and non-cooperation with the British government. Meetings were organised in order to rally the masses to support these issues. The meetings were organised under the banner of Mo’tamar al-Ansar (The Workers Conference) and various newspapers such as Al-Hilal of Maualana Abul Kalam Azad and The Comrade of Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar. Both Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad and Maulana Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar were put behind bars for publishing anti-British articles in their newspapers. The latter spent four years in prison between 1911 and 1915CE.
The allegiance of the Muslim intelligentsia of India at that to the Khilafah is unquestionable. Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad summed up their view when he wrote in his newspaper al-Hilal on 6th November 1912 that the Ottoman Sultans possessed the only sword which Muslims had for their protection. Insofar as the “caliphate was essentially a religious integration of the shari’a”, it became “necessary by revelation, is of God’s institution and that obedience to its authority is farz, or positively commanded”.
The Khilafat Movement
In September 1919, Maulana Muhammad Ali and his brother Shaukat Ali, together with Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad, Dr. Mukhtar Ahmed Ansari, and Hasrat Mohani, started a new organization, the Khilafat Movement (1919-1924). Their avowed aim was to use whatever leverage they had to protect the Khilafah. They organized Khilafat Conferences in several northern Indian cities. It is noticeable that the scholars and activists that were part of the Khilafat movement came from different schools of thought and backgrounds, for example Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was known to be a ‘ghayr taqleedi’ (non-taqleedi – who believed Taqleed to Mazahib is prohibited) and Maulana Mahmood Hasan was Deobandi who are followers of the Hanafi Mazhab yet they were united in the objective of working for the maintenance of the Khilafah.
In 1919, the Bombay Khilafat Committee agreed on two important organisational goals: “first, to urge the retention of the temporal powers of the Sultan of Turkey as Caliph, and second to ensure his continued suzerainty over the Islamic holy places.”
Delivering the presidential address at the Calcutta meeting of the Bengal Provincial Khilafat Conference in 1920, Maulana Azad discussed the importance of Khilafah he declared, “the purpose of this institution was to organise and lead the Muslim community in the right path, to establish justice, to bring about peace, and to spread God’s word in the world. For all this it was absolutely necessary for the caliph to possess temporal power”. Maulana Azad had no doubt that “without an Imam, their lives were un-Islamic and that they would be damned after death”.
Maulana Azad published a book in 1920 called Masla-e-Khilafat (The Issue of Khilafah), he stated: “Without the Khilafah the existence of Islam is not possible, the Muslims of India with all their effort and power need to work for this”.
In the same book page 176 Maulana Azad said, “There are two types of ahkam shariah, the first is related to the individual like the commands and prohibitions, the fara’id (obligations) and wajibat in order to perfect oneself. The second is not related to the individual but is related to the Ummah, nation, collective obligations and state politics like the conquering of lands, political and economic laws”.
According to Peter Hardy, Maulana Azad believed that, “The Muslim who would separate religion and politics for Muslims is an apostate who works silently”.
The loss of political power in India and the threat posed by a combination of forces to the temporal authority of the caliph, was so worrisome for the leaders of the Muslim community that some of them felt compelled to issue fatwas ‘in favour of migration (hijra)’ from India.
Maulana Abul Kalam Azad issued a fatwa which was published in the daily Ahl-e-Hadith of Amritsar on 30 July 1920. In his fatwa he urged Hijrat from India as an alternative to non-cooperation with the British. (YLH’s note: Was the Hijaz Born Azad a "Wahabi"... note "Ahle-Hadith)
Maulana Abdul Bari’s fatwa said, “every Muslim residing here should adopt non-cooperation but if (that is) impossible, should proceed for hijrat”. Maulana Shaukat Ali issued a statement on behalf of the Central Khilafat Committee, “expressing the hope that all dedicated Muslims would stay in India and work for the non-cooperation. Only if it did not succeed would they consider resorting to hijrat”. The impact of the fatwa was electrifying and thousands of Muslims preferred to leave the Dar al harb of India where their religious rights symbolized in the position of the Turkish Caliph was being infringed.
And most amazing was the fact that Gandhi’s encouragement led to Deobandi ulema creating the Jamiat ulema Hind ... which in its numerous forms and heads plagues South Asia even today... and all these groups are spin offs of the same.
....
Unless telling the facts like they are is "over doing it", I cannot agree with such a statement.
While I was only responding to JayP's usual abuse, here are the facts:
Achyuth Patwardhan, one of the Socialist stalwarts in the Congress, has given a remarkably candid and self critical analysis of the Congress Party vis-a-vis Khilafat: ’It is, however, useful to recognise our share of this error of misdirection. To begin with, I am convinced that looking back upon the course of development of the freedom movement, THE ’HIMALAYAN ERROR’ of Gandhiji’s leadership was the support he extended on behalf of the Congress and the Indian people to the Khilafat Movement at the end of the World War I. This has proved to be a disastrous error which has brought in its wake a series of harmful consequences. On merits, it was a thoroughly reactionary step. The Khilafat was totally unworthy of support of the Progressive Muslims. Kemel Pasha established this solid fact by abolition of the Khilafat. The abolition of the Khilafat was widely welcomed by enlightened Muslim opinion the world over and Kemel was an undoubted hero of all young Muslims straining against Imperialist domination. But apart from the fact that Khilafat was an unworthy reactionary cause, Mahatma Gandhi had to align himself with a sectarian revivalist Muslim Leadership of clerics and maulvis. He was thus unwittingly responsible for jettisoning sane, secular, modernist leadership among the Muslims of India and foisting upon the Indian Muslims a theocratic orthodoxy of the Maulvis. Maulana Mohammed Ali’s speeches read today appear strangely incoherent and out of tune with the spirit of secular political freedom. The Congress Movement which released the forces of religious liberalism and reform among the Hindus, and evoked a rational scientific outlook, placed the Muslims of India under the spell of orthodoxy and religious superstition by their support to the Khilafat leadership. Rationalist leaders like Jinnah were rebuffed by this attitude of Congress and Gandhi. This is the background of the psychological rift between Congress and the Muslim League’.
and
’Since the Khilafat agitation, things have changed and it has been one of the many injuries inflicted on India by the encouragement of the Khilafat crusade, that the inner Muslim feeling of hatred against ’unbelievers’ has sprung up, naked and unashamed, as in years gone by’.
and
A terrible and gruesome fallout of the disastrous Khilafat experiment of Mahatma Gandhi was the Moplah Rebellion in Malabar District in 1921. According to the Report of the ENQUIRY COMMITTEE OF SERVANTS OF INDIA SOCIETY, the number of Hindus murdered by Moplah Muslims was 1500, the number of Hindus forcibly converted 20,000 and the value of property looted about Rs three crore. When the national and local leaders appealed to the virulently anti-Hindu Moplah Muslims in the name of Mahatma Gandhi to follow the ways of peace and non-violence, they replied bluntly with Islamic fervour: ’GANDHI IS A KAFIR, HOW CAN HE BE OUR LEADER?’ Dr Anne Besant declared: ’The Moplah Muslim marauders murdered and plundered abundantly, killed or drove away all Hindus who would not apostatize. Somewhere about 100,000 people were driven from their homes with nothing but the clothes they had on, stripped of everything’. She also accused all the Khilafat religious preachers for all this terrible atrocities. J Campbell, chief of the Intelligence Department, Government of India, held the Khilafat leaders squarely responsible for inciting racial hatred resulting in Moplah carnage.
http://www.newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06aug/2208ss1.htm
Mahatma Gandhi’s attempt to harness the feeling for the cause of national independence backfired and led to the uprising in Kerala known as the Moplah Rebellion. It took the British several months to put it down at the cost of thousands of lives.
Moplahs were very much part of the grand Khilafat Movement that Gandhi was spearheading and Gandhi kept apologising for them
The Dravidian Moplahs had directed their revolt with class venom against some Aryan high-caste Hindus with property as well as Britishers: Brahmanical elements tried to use that to spark a crisis in Hindu-Muslim relations all over India. Gandhi tried to hold a balance: like the U.S. press and the Negro nationalists who read it he stressed that the Moplah uprising could be made part of a united drive for independence by Indians of all sects.But he was also aware of the pan-Islamic dimension: in a December 1921 call to the British to suspend their attacks against the Moplahs, he was to observe that the Moplahs saw themselves as fighting for a religion with methods they considered religious: Yogesh Chadha, Rediscovering Gandhi (London: Century 1997) p. 254.
And lets not forget the Tehreek-e-Hijrat Fatwa that Gandhi’s right hand man Azad gave to Muslims which gave Muslims two options "JEHAD" or "HIJRAT".
The Muslim Ulema, thinkers and activists called for the boycott of foreign goods and non-cooperation with the British government. Meetings were organised in order to rally the masses to support these issues. The meetings were organised under the banner of Mo’tamar al-Ansar (The Workers Conference) and various newspapers such as Al-Hilal of Maualana Abul Kalam Azad and The Comrade of Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar. Both Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad and Maulana Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar were put behind bars for publishing anti-British articles in their newspapers. The latter spent four years in prison between 1911 and 1915CE.
The allegiance of the Muslim intelligentsia of India at that to the Khilafah is unquestionable. Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad summed up their view when he wrote in his newspaper al-Hilal on 6th November 1912 that the Ottoman Sultans possessed the only sword which Muslims had for their protection. Insofar as the “caliphate was essentially a religious integration of the shari’a”, it became “necessary by revelation, is of God’s institution and that obedience to its authority is farz, or positively commanded”.
The Khilafat Movement
In September 1919, Maulana Muhammad Ali and his brother Shaukat Ali, together with Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad, Dr. Mukhtar Ahmed Ansari, and Hasrat Mohani, started a new organization, the Khilafat Movement (1919-1924). Their avowed aim was to use whatever leverage they had to protect the Khilafah. They organized Khilafat Conferences in several northern Indian cities. It is noticeable that the scholars and activists that were part of the Khilafat movement came from different schools of thought and backgrounds, for example Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was known to be a ‘ghayr taqleedi’ (non-taqleedi – who believed Taqleed to Mazahib is prohibited) and Maulana Mahmood Hasan was Deobandi who are followers of the Hanafi Mazhab yet they were united in the objective of working for the maintenance of the Khilafah.
In 1919, the Bombay Khilafat Committee agreed on two important organisational goals: “first, to urge the retention of the temporal powers of the Sultan of Turkey as Caliph, and second to ensure his continued suzerainty over the Islamic holy places.”
Delivering the presidential address at the Calcutta meeting of the Bengal Provincial Khilafat Conference in 1920, Maulana Azad discussed the importance of Khilafah he declared, “the purpose of this institution was to organise and lead the Muslim community in the right path, to establish justice, to bring about peace, and to spread God’s word in the world. For all this it was absolutely necessary for the caliph to possess temporal power”. Maulana Azad had no doubt that “without an Imam, their lives were un-Islamic and that they would be damned after death”.
Maulana Azad published a book in 1920 called Masla-e-Khilafat (The Issue of Khilafah), he stated: “Without the Khilafah the existence of Islam is not possible, the Muslims of India with all their effort and power need to work for this”.
In the same book page 176 Maulana Azad said, “There are two types of ahkam shariah, the first is related to the individual like the commands and prohibitions, the fara’id (obligations) and wajibat in order to perfect oneself. The second is not related to the individual but is related to the Ummah, nation, collective obligations and state politics like the conquering of lands, political and economic laws”.
According to Peter Hardy, Maulana Azad believed that, “The Muslim who would separate religion and politics for Muslims is an apostate who works silently”.
The loss of political power in India and the threat posed by a combination of forces to the temporal authority of the caliph, was so worrisome for the leaders of the Muslim community that some of them felt compelled to issue fatwas ‘in favour of migration (hijra)’ from India.
Maulana Abul Kalam Azad issued a fatwa which was published in the daily Ahl-e-Hadith of Amritsar on 30 July 1920. In his fatwa he urged Hijrat from India as an alternative to non-cooperation with the British. (YLH’s note: Was the Hijaz Born Azad a "Wahabi"... note "Ahle-Hadith)
Maulana Abdul Bari’s fatwa said, “every Muslim residing here should adopt non-cooperation but if (that is) impossible, should proceed for hijrat”. Maulana Shaukat Ali issued a statement on behalf of the Central Khilafat Committee, “expressing the hope that all dedicated Muslims would stay in India and work for the non-cooperation. Only if it did not succeed would they consider resorting to hijrat”. The impact of the fatwa was electrifying and thousands of Muslims preferred to leave the Dar al harb of India where their religious rights symbolized in the position of the Turkish Caliph was being infringed.
And most amazing was the fact that Gandhi’s encouragement led to Deobandi ulema creating the Jamiat ulema Hind ... which in its numerous forms and heads plagues South Asia even today... and all these groups are spin offs of the same.
....
#80 Posted by MantoLives on July 30, 2007 7:40:31 pm
PS: This is not to say that Abdul Qayyum Khan and the NWFP Muslim Leaugers were any angels... they fought the Khan brothers tit for tat.
But then one had to make do with what one had... and in case of NWFP, all of the "leaders" there were those who had fallen out with Khan Brothers and the Congress Party and were otherwise unconvinced and unconcerned withn the Pakistan movement.
But then one had to make do with what one had... and in case of NWFP, all of the "leaders" there were those who had fallen out with Khan Brothers and the Congress Party and were otherwise unconvinced and unconcerned withn the Pakistan movement.
#79 Posted by MantoLives on July 30, 2007 7:34:22 pm
Dear Adam Khan mian,
I've never started off about any "secret" document that "I have". It would help if people like you atleast don't insult other people by ridiculing them like you do.
The very declassified documents which form part of the US National Archives are letters and reports by Howard Donovan, the US Charge d' affairs in Karachi, who had written extensively to US Secretary of State Marshall on the NWFP situation.
They are also part of the appendix of Jinnah Papers Volume III - July 1-25. The letters and reports are the American view of the happenings in Waziristan and NWFP in 1947.
As for Sardar Abdul Qayyum ... how ironic that he was one of Khan Brothers' closest Congress allies till 1946... was the feud between Qayyum and Khan brothers then something personal?
I've never started off about any "secret" document that "I have". It would help if people like you atleast don't insult other people by ridiculing them like you do.
The very declassified documents which form part of the US National Archives are letters and reports by Howard Donovan, the US Charge d' affairs in Karachi, who had written extensively to US Secretary of State Marshall on the NWFP situation.
They are also part of the appendix of Jinnah Papers Volume III - July 1-25. The letters and reports are the American view of the happenings in Waziristan and NWFP in 1947.
As for Sardar Abdul Qayyum ... how ironic that he was one of Khan Brothers' closest Congress allies till 1946... was the feud between Qayyum and Khan brothers then something personal?
#78 Posted by echoboom on July 30, 2007 7:13:07 pm
Where there is a weapon, there is a need to use it
Today:
INVENTION IS THE MOTHER of NECESSITY.........echoboom.
Such is the power of the most monstrous Popes of Power today..the ORGANISED SCIENTISTS!
the juggernaut of "PROGRESS" is out to crush humanity at any price.
____________________________________________________________
July 30, 2007
THE US AIR FORCE RULES THE SKIES
WASHINGTON - The capital may be buzzing with talk about the withdrawal of American forces from Iraq, but the US Air Force appears to be planning for a long stay in Mesopotamia and Central Asia.
The USAF is reported to be expanding its air bases in Iraq, including lengthening a second 11,000 ft runway at Balad Airbase, a nerve center for American air operations. There are persistent reports from the Pentagon that the US intends to keep four to six major military bases in Iraq, each with a powerful air component, and a 3,500-man helicopter-mobile, rapid reaction infantry brigade. Other US operating air bases
in Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Pakistan, and Central Asia are being steadily improved.
Bush Administration hawks hope to retain control of oil-rich Iraq, and sharply decrease the number of US battle casualties, by using American air power and Iraqi troops. Iraqi `native’ troops, or `sepoys,’ as the British used to call its local mercenaries, will do all the dirty work on the ground and keep the populace under control.
US air power and infantry will only intervene when Iraqi sepoys get into trouble. This is precisely the same formula use by the British Empire to rule Iraq after World War I. Winston Churchill even authorized use of mustard gas by the RAF against rebellious Kurdish tribesmen – and troublesome Pashtun tribesmen on India’s Northwest frontier.
The US Air Force recently moved new squadrons of advanced F-16C’s fighters and workhorse A-10 ground attack aircraft to Iraq. Powerful B-1B heavy bombers have been repositioned from remote Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to the Gulf.
The $220 million each B-1’s can carry up to 41,000 lbs of bombs. Their deadly accurate GPS-guided 500-lb and 1,000-lb bombs have inflicted heavy casualties on resistance fighters and, inevitably, civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thanks to amazingly accurate targeting, the USAF is now developing a new small, low blast radius 250lb bomb specially configured for anti-guerilla operations in civilian areas.
Without US fighters, B1’s and B-52’s heavy bombers, and AC-130 gunships constantly flying top cover, over-stretched US infantry in Iraq, and US/NATO forces in Afghanistan, might very well face defeat. Western forces could not protect their long, vulnerable supply lines and mall, scattered outposts against local guerillas without immediate, intensive air support.
Deprived of constant air support, US and NATO bases in Iraq and Afghanistan would become little Dienbienphu’s: surrounded and isolated, like the infamous French field fortress in the Vietnamese highlands, under heavy bombardment, and forced to rely on always insufficient air drops of munitions, supplies and reinforcements.
Afghanistan’s previous invaders, the British and Soviets, were primarily defeated by their inability to protect their long lines of communications. During World War I, a British army in Mesopotamia met the same fate at Kut after the Turks cut its supply lines to Basra.
By contrast, the mighty USAF maintains 24-hour combat air patrols that can respond within minutes to calls from ground units, directing devastating cluster munitions, smart bombs, and cannon fire onto attackers. When the Soviets occupied Afghanistan, the Red Air Force’s response time to attacks by mujahidin on Russian ground units was often as much as 30-60 minutes, by which time the attackers had escaped.
Consequently, assaults on US and NATO ground units are near suicidal affairs. So Iraqi and Afghan resistance forces have adopted as their weapon of choice roadside bombs command detonated by a single fighter from a safe distance.
US and NATO units, under mounting attack, are increasingly calling in close air support and bombing runs. This over-reliance on air support is causing civilian casualties to mount sharply in Afghanistan and Iraq. Guerilla forces can be suppressed and dispersed by air power, but not decisively defeated. Israel’s shocking failure to defeat Hezbullah guerillas in southern Lebanon last year by air attacks was a graphic example.
Whenever the US and NATO claim `100 dead suspected Taliban’ or `50 dead Iraqi insurgents,’ many are actually dead civilians. There is no way fighter and bomber pilots flying at over 300 mph can distinguish between un-uniformed fighters and civilians. In both Afghanistan and Iraq, the general rule is to attack any groups of men numbering more than two or three, and, as the old line from the Vietnam War went, `let God sort them out.’
The US has also developed reconnaissance capability of formidable capacity and coverage. US satellites can read license plates through clouds, smoke, rain or foliage, and track human infrared signatures. Drones, U-2 spy planes and a fleet of electronic warfare aircraft provide unblinking, 24/7 `eyes in the sky’ over almost all of Afghanistan and Iraq. The flood of data from all these sensors is consolidated and distributed to field commands or shared with HQ units in what is called `actionable’ information.
The US Air Force has become to the American Imperium what the Royal Navy was to the British Empire, the source of its might, and means of power projection.
While the Royal Navy ruled only the waves and littoral regions, the USAF can today reach and strike any point on the globe with devastating accuracy, speed and force. It is the mightiest, most technologically accomplished military force in history.
In fact, the USAF, with its new stealthy F-22 and upcoming F-35, are now so technologically advanced, they are at least 1.5-2 generations ahead of the rest of the world.
Russia has advanced technology and anti-stealth systems on the drawing board but cannot yet afford to deploy them in sufficient numbers. Russia, China, and India are unlikely to catch up with US military technology for the next 25 years – if ever.
The US accounts for 50% of total global military spending, and is simply too far ahead for any other powers to catch up – unless some radical new military technologies suddenly emerge that neutralize or make obsolete today’s advanced weapons systems.
Only Europe could compete militarily, had it the will, which it does not. In fact, America’s air force and naval aviation have enjoyed near absolute air superiority since 1943 with only temporary challenges during the Korean and Vietnam Wars.
The USAF also has the US military’s smartest, best educated, and most forward-thinking officers. The US Army’s thankless role – and I say this as a former Army infantryman - has become to pin down enemy units so they can become targets for the USAF’s smart bombs.
Today, the only real challenge facing the US Air Force comes from its old enemy, the US Navy, which is determined not to let the flyboys blitz its budgets and steal all the glory.
copyright Eric S. Margolis 2007
Today:
INVENTION IS THE MOTHER of NECESSITY.........echoboom.
Such is the power of the most monstrous Popes of Power today..the ORGANISED SCIENTISTS!
the juggernaut of "PROGRESS" is out to crush humanity at any price.
____________________________________________________________
July 30, 2007
THE US AIR FORCE RULES THE SKIES
WASHINGTON - The capital may be buzzing with talk about the withdrawal of American forces from Iraq, but the US Air Force appears to be planning for a long stay in Mesopotamia and Central Asia.
The USAF is reported to be expanding its air bases in Iraq, including lengthening a second 11,000 ft runway at Balad Airbase, a nerve center for American air operations. There are persistent reports from the Pentagon that the US intends to keep four to six major military bases in Iraq, each with a powerful air component, and a 3,500-man helicopter-mobile, rapid reaction infantry brigade. Other US operating air bases
in Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Pakistan, and Central Asia are being steadily improved.
Bush Administration hawks hope to retain control of oil-rich Iraq, and sharply decrease the number of US battle casualties, by using American air power and Iraqi troops. Iraqi `native’ troops, or `sepoys,’ as the British used to call its local mercenaries, will do all the dirty work on the ground and keep the populace under control.
US air power and infantry will only intervene when Iraqi sepoys get into trouble. This is precisely the same formula use by the British Empire to rule Iraq after World War I. Winston Churchill even authorized use of mustard gas by the RAF against rebellious Kurdish tribesmen – and troublesome Pashtun tribesmen on India’s Northwest frontier.
The US Air Force recently moved new squadrons of advanced F-16C’s fighters and workhorse A-10 ground attack aircraft to Iraq. Powerful B-1B heavy bombers have been repositioned from remote Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to the Gulf.
The $220 million each B-1’s can carry up to 41,000 lbs of bombs. Their deadly accurate GPS-guided 500-lb and 1,000-lb bombs have inflicted heavy casualties on resistance fighters and, inevitably, civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thanks to amazingly accurate targeting, the USAF is now developing a new small, low blast radius 250lb bomb specially configured for anti-guerilla operations in civilian areas.
Without US fighters, B1’s and B-52’s heavy bombers, and AC-130 gunships constantly flying top cover, over-stretched US infantry in Iraq, and US/NATO forces in Afghanistan, might very well face defeat. Western forces could not protect their long, vulnerable supply lines and mall, scattered outposts against local guerillas without immediate, intensive air support.
Deprived of constant air support, US and NATO bases in Iraq and Afghanistan would become little Dienbienphu’s: surrounded and isolated, like the infamous French field fortress in the Vietnamese highlands, under heavy bombardment, and forced to rely on always insufficient air drops of munitions, supplies and reinforcements.
Afghanistan’s previous invaders, the British and Soviets, were primarily defeated by their inability to protect their long lines of communications. During World War I, a British army in Mesopotamia met the same fate at Kut after the Turks cut its supply lines to Basra.
By contrast, the mighty USAF maintains 24-hour combat air patrols that can respond within minutes to calls from ground units, directing devastating cluster munitions, smart bombs, and cannon fire onto attackers. When the Soviets occupied Afghanistan, the Red Air Force’s response time to attacks by mujahidin on Russian ground units was often as much as 30-60 minutes, by which time the attackers had escaped.
Consequently, assaults on US and NATO ground units are near suicidal affairs. So Iraqi and Afghan resistance forces have adopted as their weapon of choice roadside bombs command detonated by a single fighter from a safe distance.
US and NATO units, under mounting attack, are increasingly calling in close air support and bombing runs. This over-reliance on air support is causing civilian casualties to mount sharply in Afghanistan and Iraq. Guerilla forces can be suppressed and dispersed by air power, but not decisively defeated. Israel’s shocking failure to defeat Hezbullah guerillas in southern Lebanon last year by air attacks was a graphic example.
Whenever the US and NATO claim `100 dead suspected Taliban’ or `50 dead Iraqi insurgents,’ many are actually dead civilians. There is no way fighter and bomber pilots flying at over 300 mph can distinguish between un-uniformed fighters and civilians. In both Afghanistan and Iraq, the general rule is to attack any groups of men numbering more than two or three, and, as the old line from the Vietnam War went, `let God sort them out.’
The US has also developed reconnaissance capability of formidable capacity and coverage. US satellites can read license plates through clouds, smoke, rain or foliage, and track human infrared signatures. Drones, U-2 spy planes and a fleet of electronic warfare aircraft provide unblinking, 24/7 `eyes in the sky’ over almost all of Afghanistan and Iraq. The flood of data from all these sensors is consolidated and distributed to field commands or shared with HQ units in what is called `actionable’ information.
The US Air Force has become to the American Imperium what the Royal Navy was to the British Empire, the source of its might, and means of power projection.
While the Royal Navy ruled only the waves and littoral regions, the USAF can today reach and strike any point on the globe with devastating accuracy, speed and force. It is the mightiest, most technologically accomplished military force in history.
In fact, the USAF, with its new stealthy F-22 and upcoming F-35, are now so technologically advanced, they are at least 1.5-2 generations ahead of the rest of the world.
Russia has advanced technology and anti-stealth systems on the drawing board but cannot yet afford to deploy them in sufficient numbers. Russia, China, and India are unlikely to catch up with US military technology for the next 25 years – if ever.
The US accounts for 50% of total global military spending, and is simply too far ahead for any other powers to catch up – unless some radical new military technologies suddenly emerge that neutralize or make obsolete today’s advanced weapons systems.
Only Europe could compete militarily, had it the will, which it does not. In fact, America’s air force and naval aviation have enjoyed near absolute air superiority since 1943 with only temporary challenges during the Korean and Vietnam Wars.
The USAF also has the US military’s smartest, best educated, and most forward-thinking officers. The US Army’s thankless role – and I say this as a former Army infantryman - has become to pin down enemy units so they can become targets for the USAF’s smart bombs.
Today, the only real challenge facing the US Air Force comes from its old enemy, the US Navy, which is determined not to let the flyboys blitz its budgets and steal all the glory.
copyright Eric S. Margolis 2007
#77 Posted by Folio on July 30, 2007 6:59:32 pm
Dear Author,
Plz see the videos (6+) given here.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pceJDg_tANk
Pl comment on the videos.
The legacy provinces of Pakistan i.e NWFP and Balochistan are yet to be confederated on the same footing as Punjab & Sindh.
If some of the clips in the videos are the ground facts then it's very dengaerous for Pakistan in the medium term.
Mush advising Pak armymen to avoid being seen in uniform in NWFP and the police avoid being seen in uniform in Isloo sounds surreal.
Your suggestions sound good.............
Plz see the videos (6+) given here.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pceJDg_tANk
Pl comment on the videos.
The legacy provinces of Pakistan i.e NWFP and Balochistan are yet to be confederated on the same footing as Punjab & Sindh.
If some of the clips in the videos are the ground facts then it's very dengaerous for Pakistan in the medium term.
Mush advising Pak armymen to avoid being seen in uniform in NWFP and the police avoid being seen in uniform in Isloo sounds surreal.
Your suggestions sound good.............
#76 Posted by tahmed32 on July 30, 2007 6:22:14 pm
urstruly #55 I agree with what you write. Only thing is: dont blame the entire army for the shenanigans of Musharraf. There are well over half a million Pakistanis in uniform - the vast majority are patriotic Pakistanis and I assume most are as frustrated by Musharraf's attempts to remain in power as Pakistanis not in uniform. And that is the reason why the only group Musharraf could force to fire upon peaceful demonstrators (as opposed to the armed thugs of lal masjid) was MQM on May 12.
#75 Posted by tahmed32 on July 30, 2007 6:16:13 pm
adamkhan: kher raghalay day. Welcome back to chowk. And great post, telling it like it is.
#74 Posted by tahmed32 on July 30, 2007 6:13:38 pm
zeemax: you write "There are only two liberal forces in Pakistan. One is Benazir, the other is Altaf Hussain. "
Herr Altaf Hussain is a liberal? This is possible only through liberal use of the word liberal to mean any group you dont like. And the only thing common between him and BB is that both are happy to make deals with Musharraf.
As for dropping further discussion out of respect - I thought one dropped further discussion out of lack thereof. Just tells you how little I know. :-(
Herr Altaf Hussain is a liberal? This is possible only through liberal use of the word liberal to mean any group you dont like. And the only thing common between him and BB is that both are happy to make deals with Musharraf.
As for dropping further discussion out of respect - I thought one dropped further discussion out of lack thereof. Just tells you how little I know. :-(
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