Khuda Ke Liye

it is a great movie. the best bit is when shaan's character goes to the US to study and meets his future girlfriend for the first time. She asks him where he's from. He says, Pakistan. She says, 'Is that a country?!' then he tells her it is between Iran, Afghanistan, China and India. Oh India she says. I love India. I want to see the Taj Mahal. To which he replies, "WE built it. We ruled India for a 1000 years. We ruled Spain too for 800 years.." Class. :-)

People of Indian stock often ask why do Pakistanis have a chip on their shoulder? The reason is that we ARE the inheritors of a 1000 year old empire--when you've been the dominant power for so long it kind of gets inbred into your genes I guess. And as part of the bigger global Ummah we can
see their success as our success.

Part of these comments are deliberately tongue in cheek but I do agree that because pakistan and india were the same country for so long it is hard to say for certain what belongs to whom although i dont thnk many pakistani would be too sad for india to claim all the hindu works of art for herself such as the temples of khajarao (?). naturally we'd consider all the works made by muslim rulers ours.

I think it's about time that we bin the oh-so-embarrassing name of the film industry. I mean Lollywood - what the hell?! It should aptly be called the Pakistan Film Industry. Lollywood is too cheap for a name. Who agrees?

Apparently... you didn't get "as much" in that post.

When I said Pakistanis are destined to make lasting art... I meant here and now... because we are sufficiently challenged.

Dear Yasser,

Nobody is saying that Taxila is yours or mine. Those were times when there was no 'India' and no 'Pakistan'. If you do read/study ancient Indian history though, the area that is now Pakistan is definitely an integral part of it. Gandhara, the state where Taxila was located was one of the many Mahajanapadas stretching across the Northern and Central part of what are today India and Pakistan. The Mauryan empire as you are well aware, with its capital at Pataliputra (in modern Bihar), even extended into what is today Afghanistan. We can't really cut up history into neat little boxes labeled 'India' and 'Pakistan' and study them in isolation. I'm sure you agree that history is definitely more complex than that. Should we on this side of the border stop studying the Mauryan empire or the Indus valley civilization for that matter in all its entirety just because some of the places now happen to be in another country?

You said that only Pakistanis are destined to create lasting art and contribution to human consciousness, citing Taxila as an example. In disagreement with that, I cited many other ancient historical monuments in India that (like Taxila) have already made a lasting contribution to human consciousness. Like I said before, art and culture are not the prerogative of any one culture or people.

I am well aware of the origins of the name 'India' as I happen to have read history. Unfortunately I don't subscribe to the 'Taxila mine, Taj yours' reading of history. I respect more nuanced stands.

All we have done is hear foul mouthed freaks from that side of the border out. Taxila is as much ours ...as Taj Mahal is yours.

Even your name "India" technically does not belong to you. So there is no point arguing about what is Pakistani Art and what is not.

Dear Yasser,

I'm sorry I even bothered reading this. I'll leave you to bond and eulogize about Pakistan your with fellow countrymen/women since you're just too full of yourself to be able to hear anyone else out.

Re: # 229

Dear Simran,

I am afraid you are too stupid and too jingoistically Indian to even begin to comprehend what I said. Hence I'll let you be on your way.

Sim, take it easy.:)

Good points, but we Indians throw a lot of that at Pakistanis too. All in a day's work here.

I haven’t seen Khuda Kay Liye, so I cannot comment on it. But I would like to comment on the reference made to Rang de Basanti (RDB) in the article, and a couple of other things said in some of the interacts. Mr. Hamdani says:

When one compares KKL to say the Indian movie "Rang de Basanti" which supposedly seeks to address the problems of the modern Indian youth, one finds the latter lacking in substance.

I don’t think RDB set out to address the problems of the modern Indian youth. Like the movie ‘Yuva’, it asked them to be more pro-active in the Indian political scene; to be the change they want to see; to strengthen democracy and make it work better. Personally, I found the seemingly effortless juxtaposition of the past with the present both brilliant and relevant. The parallels of the colonial government with the one today, involvement of the youth then and the disillusionment now, the rot in the system, were all very interesting themes. I did find the direction loud and wanting at times, but that's besides the point. I don't see why the reviewer had to put down one movie while praising another. These are two different movies with differing themes. It's great that Pakistan is coming out with good cinema, but the denigrating reference to RDB was totally unnecessary.

In interact no. 10, Saima Shah says, "Soul searching is not common among pragmatic people in India..." I'm sure it's not even among pragmatic people in Pakistan. Although I do feel that pragmatic people can be soul searchers as well. She further adds, "People who dance to express themselves have no mental time to feel sad." This is really one of the silliest statements that i've heard in quite some time. Dance is a very complex art form that incorporates all kinds of emotions from happiness to sadness to everything in between.

Mr. Hamdani in # 85:

The same is true of fashion, culture, art... I strongly believe that it is Pakistan and Pakistani society that has the upheavel to create true art and true culture. In many ways... we- and not the Indians- are destined to create lasting art and contribution to human consciousness. Visit Taxila or Takhtbai... what do you see, except an obsession with this right way.

I want to laugh every time I read this. I fail to understand this snobbery of we, Pakistanis, are superior to Indians in every which way, especially art and culture. We speak the very refined Urdu language and neglect other local languages which of course are below our esteemed 'culture'. I expected something more nuanced than this immature gibberish. I don't know what you mean by "true art and true culture" but the Indian civilization has been known throughout the ages for its art and culture. And this includes the area that is part of Pakistan today. Taxila or Takshashila in Sanskrit, was when there were no nation states as we know them today and borders were more fluid and constantly changing. The Gandhara style of art found there is an amalgamation of Greek and native elements. But if for you that is an example of the "true art" of Pakistan, then so is the great Stupa at Sanchi in India, the Ajanta and Ellora caves with their beautiful paintings and the magnificent Kailasa temple, the Hoysala temples of Karnataka, the shore temples of Mahabalipuram, the stunning temples of Konarak in Orissa and Khajuraho in Madhya Pradesh, and of course later on in history, the splendid Mughal architecture with the Taj Mahal being the most famous, not to forget the unique art of the Bahmani kingdom of the Deccan and of course the ruins of the Vijayanagar empire at Hampi. Aren't these enough examples of lasting contributions to human consciousness? Art and culture are not the prerogative of any one people or country. We should all be wary of such over simplifications of history that only serve to demonize the 'other'.

Swarrier,

I am assuming you consider yourself above us charlatans because you listen to Dhrupad right? Too bad it did not make an honest man out of you.

You write: "Did I mention that you said RDB was an art movie? I did not."

Yet in post 213 you write: even if you, in your juvenile fantasies think Rang de Basanti is an Indian art film and pop music is the ultimate expression of art.

Then you claim that you only said that I- YLH- believed it to be so. Amazing... when KKL is not an art movie why would my comparison with RDB will make lead to this erroneous assumption. One can only assume that you have no integrity.


You can call me whatever you want but I think that your pathetic argument is for everyone to see. Your came in here blazing - as if I was lying about the News agencies comment.
Then when it got proved... you came up with "oh this is just one agency".

Now you've refused to see the connection between ANI promoting the film as "Bollywood flick" and others calling it "Naseer ud din's film" and "Naseeruddin Shah starrer".

In other words you are trying to get off on a technicality.

#171 Posted by stuka on August 1, 2007 10:37:54 pm

Why is the United States considered Stan by you. Do you deny that US gives more right to its own people than our own maliks and leaders give to us?
___________________________________________________________

Stuka:
Satans come in all sizes and in all kind of garbs. United Satans are the biggest of them all. The Malliks etc would be nowhere without the support of the Big Satan.

I'm sure the Malliks treat their own family real well & they are considered by their own as the most caring & genial souls by them . Of course United Satans, like the Godfathers of Mafia, are great family-patriarchs.

Re:219 Mantolives

1) The simple fact of the matter is that you have been caught as usual bringing your silly insecurities to the table and tis not a pretty sight. The example is clear to all that ONE does not constitute many. No amount of ducking and dodging is going to change that. You have lied.

2) We did not discuss Indian newspapers calling it Mr.Shah's film. I do not care, and if your Pakistani director chose to use him in a 10 minute role then good for him.

3) I asked a simple question. You were the one who read much more into it. I am willing to believe that the worst of Indian reporting is as bad as anything around. India and Indians are not sacred cows to me. I have lived there long enough to accept that we have every variety of low life forms available. However that is not restricted to my country alone. And as such lies , trickery and deceit is very much your forte as your arguments show.

Did I mention that you said RDB was an art movie? I did not. I merely said that your juvenile instincts led you to believe so, since you pointed that out as a comparison.
I have not seen KKL and I am sure it will be a pretty decent film. The percentage of talented Pakistanis will no doubt be the same as the percentage of talented Indians.

But now I understand where you come from. You see Manto, a "Dhrupad" is not such an elitist fantasy. It requires a great deal of devotion to understand. Understanding Jackson Pollock or Zia Moinuddin Dagar or Kishori Amonkar requires unstinting application of the mind. Cavorting around trees and pretty boy meets pretty girl is not art. As Frank Zappa, I think it was, said two things about Rock and Roll. "It's not aimed at your head , it's aimed between your legs". and "We're all in it for the money."

Now you would do well to understand these lines.

Mon esprit, tu te meus avec agilité,
Et, comme un bon nageur qui se pâme dans l'onde,
Tu sillonnes gaiement l'immensité profonde
Avec une indicible et mâle volupté.

Envole-toi bien loin de ces miasmes morbides;
Va te purifier dans l'air supérieur,
Et bois, comme une pure et divine liqueur,
Le feu clair qui remplit les espaces limpides.

Translation

My soul, you move with ease,
And like a strong swimmer in rapture in the wave
You wing your way blithely through boundless space
With virile joy unspeakable.

Fly far, far away from this baneful miasma
And purify yourself in the celestial air,
Drink the ethereal fire of those limpid regions
As you would the purest of heavenly nectars.






Now this is my last post on this topic since I have no time to waste on charlatans and philistines. No doubt you will be back to have the last word and I cannot deny you the pleasure of that on your own board. I bid you good day.

Khuda Hafiz.

again....#224 is another good example ;)

So in other words... this was just another sound byte.

mantolives, come on admit it, you are a great one at spinning.......now #222 is a classic example ;)

dash mian,

Like the real spinmeister here declared: "The proof of the pudding is in eating it".

Claiming that I spin without being able to come up with an example shows me that you are another one from the tribe of Swarrier trying to skew the discussion.