Khuda Ke Liye

it is a great movie. the best bit is when shaan's character goes to the US to study and meets his future girlfriend for the first time. She asks him where he's from. He says, Pakistan. She says, 'Is that a country?!' then he tells her it is between Iran, Afghanistan, China and India. Oh India she says. I love India. I want to see the Taj Mahal. To which he replies, "WE built it. We ruled India for a 1000 years. We ruled Spain too for 800 years.." Class. :-)

People of Indian stock often ask why do Pakistanis have a chip on their shoulder? The reason is that we ARE the inheritors of a 1000 year old empire--when you've been the dominant power for so long it kind of gets inbred into your genes I guess. And as part of the bigger global Ummah we can
see their success as our success.

Part of these comments are deliberately tongue in cheek but I do agree that because pakistan and india were the same country for so long it is hard to say for certain what belongs to whom although i dont thnk many pakistani would be too sad for india to claim all the hindu works of art for herself such as the temples of khajarao (?). naturally we'd consider all the works made by muslim rulers ours.

I think it's about time that we bin the oh-so-embarrassing name of the film industry. I mean Lollywood - what the hell?! It should aptly be called the Pakistan Film Industry. Lollywood is too cheap for a name. Who agrees?

Apparently... you didn't get "as much" in that post.

When I said Pakistanis are destined to make lasting art... I meant here and now... because we are sufficiently challenged.

Dear Yasser,

Nobody is saying that Taxila is yours or mine. Those were times when there was no 'India' and no 'Pakistan'. If you do read/study ancient Indian history though, the area that is now Pakistan is definitely an integral part of it. Gandhara, the state where Taxila was located was one of the many Mahajanapadas stretching across the Northern and Central part of what are today India and Pakistan. The Mauryan empire as you are well aware, with its capital at Pataliputra (in modern Bihar), even extended into what is today Afghanistan. We can't really cut up history into neat little boxes labeled 'India' and 'Pakistan' and study them in isolation. I'm sure you agree that history is definitely more complex than that. Should we on this side of the border stop studying the Mauryan empire or the Indus valley civilization for that matter in all its entirety just because some of the places now happen to be in another country?

You said that only Pakistanis are destined to create lasting art and contribution to human consciousness, citing Taxila as an example. In disagreement with that, I cited many other ancient historical monuments in India that (like Taxila) have already made a lasting contribution to human consciousness. Like I said before, art and culture are not the prerogative of any one culture or people.

I am well aware of the origins of the name 'India' as I happen to have read history. Unfortunately I don't subscribe to the 'Taxila mine, Taj yours' reading of history. I respect more nuanced stands.

All we have done is hear foul mouthed freaks from that side of the border out. Taxila is as much ours ...as Taj Mahal is yours.

Even your name "India" technically does not belong to you. So there is no point arguing about what is Pakistani Art and what is not.

Dear Yasser,

I'm sorry I even bothered reading this. I'll leave you to bond and eulogize about Pakistan your with fellow countrymen/women since you're just too full of yourself to be able to hear anyone else out.

Re: # 229

Dear Simran,

I am afraid you are too stupid and too jingoistically Indian to even begin to comprehend what I said. Hence I'll let you be on your way.

Sim, take it easy.:)

Good points, but we Indians throw a lot of that at Pakistanis too. All in a day's work here.

I haven’t seen Khuda Kay Liye, so I cannot comment on it. But I would like to comment on the reference made to Rang de Basanti (RDB) in the article, and a couple of other things said in some of the interacts. Mr. Hamdani says:

When one compares KKL to say the Indian movie "Rang de Basanti" which supposedly seeks to address the problems of the modern Indian youth, one finds the latter lacking in substance.

I don’t think RDB set out to address the problems of the modern Indian youth. Like the movie ‘Yuva’, it asked them to be more pro-active in the Indian political scene; to be the change they want to see; to strengthen democracy and make it work better. Personally, I found the seemingly effortless juxtaposition of the past with the present both brilliant and relevant. The parallels of the colonial government with the one today, involvement of the youth then and the disillusionment now, the rot in the system, were all very interesting themes. I did find the direction loud and wanting at times, but that's besides the point. I don't see why the reviewer had to put down one movie while praising another. These are two different movies with differing themes. It's great that Pakistan is coming out with good cinema, but the denigrating reference to RDB was totally unnecessary.

In interact no. 10, Saima Shah says, "Soul searching is not common among pragmatic people in India..." I'm sure it's not even among pragmatic people in Pakistan. Although I do feel that pragmatic people can be soul searchers as well. She further adds, "People who dance to express themselves have no mental time to feel sad." This is really one of the silliest statements that i've heard in quite some time. Dance is a very complex art form that incorporates all kinds of emotions from happiness to sadness to everything in between.

Mr. Hamdani in # 85:

The same is true of fashion, culture, art... I strongly believe that it is Pakistan and Pakistani society that has the upheavel to create true art and true culture. In many ways... we- and not the Indians- are destined to create lasting art and contribution to human consciousness. Visit Taxila or Takhtbai... what do you see, except an obsession with this right way.

I want to laugh every time I read this. I fail to understand this snobbery of we, Pakistanis, are superior to Indians in every which way, especially art and culture. We speak the very refined Urdu language and neglect other local languages which of course are below our esteemed 'culture'. I expected something more nuanced than this immature gibberish. I don't know what you mean by "true art and true culture" but the Indian civilization has been known throughout the ages for its art and culture. And this includes the area that is part of Pakistan today. Taxila or Takshashila in Sanskrit, was when there were no nation states as we know them today and borders were more fluid and constantly changing. The Gandhara style of art found there is an amalgamation of Greek and native elements. But if for you that is an example of the "true art" of Pakistan, then so is the great Stupa at Sanchi in India, the Ajanta and Ellora caves with their beautiful paintings and the magnificent Kailasa temple, the Hoysala temples of Karnataka, the shore temples of Mahabalipuram, the stunning temples of Konarak in Orissa and Khajuraho in Madhya Pradesh, and of course later on in history, the splendid Mughal architecture with the Taj Mahal being the most famous, not to forget the unique art of the Bahmani kingdom of the Deccan and of course the ruins of the Vijayanagar empire at Hampi. Aren't these enough examples of lasting contributions to human consciousness? Art and culture are not the prerogative of any one people or country. We should all be wary of such over simplifications of history that only serve to demonize the 'other'.

Swarrier,

I am assuming you consider yourself above us charlatans because you listen to Dhrupad right? Too bad it did not make an honest man out of you.

You write: "Did I mention that you said RDB was an art movie? I did not."

Yet in post 213 you write: even if you, in your juvenile fantasies think Rang de Basanti is an Indian art film and pop music is the ultimate expression of art.

Then you claim that you only said that I- YLH- believed it to be so. Amazing... when KKL is not an art movie why would my comparison with RDB will make lead to this erroneous assumption. One can only assume that you have no integrity.


You can call me whatever you want but I think that your pathetic argument is for everyone to see. Your came in here blazing - as if I was lying about the News agencies comment.
Then when it got proved... you came up with "oh this is just one agency".

Now you've refused to see the connection between ANI promoting the film as "Bollywood flick" and others calling it "Naseer ud din's film" and "Naseeruddin Shah starrer".

In other words you are trying to get off on a technicality.

#171 Posted by stuka on August 1, 2007 10:37:54 pm

Why is the United States considered Stan by you. Do you deny that US gives more right to its own people than our own maliks and leaders give to us?
___________________________________________________________

Stuka:
Satans come in all sizes and in all kind of garbs. United Satans are the biggest of them all. The Malliks etc would be nowhere without the support of the Big Satan.

I'm sure the Malliks treat their own family real well & they are considered by their own as the most caring & genial souls by them . Of course United Satans, like the Godfathers of Mafia, are great family-patriarchs.

Re:219 Mantolives

1) The simple fact of the matter is that you have been caught as usual bringing your silly insecurities to the table and tis not a pretty sight. The example is clear to all that ONE does not constitute many. No amount of ducking and dodging is going to change that. You have lied.

2) We did not discuss Indian newspapers calling it Mr.Shah's film. I do not care, and if your Pakistani director chose to use him in a 10 minute role then good for him.

3) I asked a simple question. You were the one who read much more into it. I am willing to believe that the worst of Indian reporting is as bad as anything around. India and Indians are not sacred cows to me. I have lived there long enough to accept that we have every variety of low life forms available. However that is not restricted to my country alone. And as such lies , trickery and deceit is very much your forte as your arguments show.

Did I mention that you said RDB was an art movie? I did not. I merely said that your juvenile instincts led you to believe so, since you pointed that out as a comparison.
I have not seen KKL and I am sure it will be a pretty decent film. The percentage of talented Pakistanis will no doubt be the same as the percentage of talented Indians.

But now I understand where you come from. You see Manto, a "Dhrupad" is not such an elitist fantasy. It requires a great deal of devotion to understand. Understanding Jackson Pollock or Zia Moinuddin Dagar or Kishori Amonkar requires unstinting application of the mind. Cavorting around trees and pretty boy meets pretty girl is not art. As Frank Zappa, I think it was, said two things about Rock and Roll. "It's not aimed at your head , it's aimed between your legs". and "We're all in it for the money."

Now you would do well to understand these lines.

Mon esprit, tu te meus avec agilité,
Et, comme un bon nageur qui se pâme dans l'onde,
Tu sillonnes gaiement l'immensité profonde
Avec une indicible et mâle volupté.

Envole-toi bien loin de ces miasmes morbides;
Va te purifier dans l'air supérieur,
Et bois, comme une pure et divine liqueur,
Le feu clair qui remplit les espaces limpides.

Translation

My soul, you move with ease,
And like a strong swimmer in rapture in the wave
You wing your way blithely through boundless space
With virile joy unspeakable.

Fly far, far away from this baneful miasma
And purify yourself in the celestial air,
Drink the ethereal fire of those limpid regions
As you would the purest of heavenly nectars.






Now this is my last post on this topic since I have no time to waste on charlatans and philistines. No doubt you will be back to have the last word and I cannot deny you the pleasure of that on your own board. I bid you good day.

Khuda Hafiz.

again....#224 is another good example ;)

So in other words... this was just another sound byte.

mantolives, come on admit it, you are a great one at spinning.......now #222 is a classic example ;)

dash mian,

Like the real spinmeister here declared: "The proof of the pudding is in eating it".

Claiming that I spin without being able to come up with an example shows me that you are another one from the tribe of Swarrier trying to skew the discussion.

Re: # 217

DOn't you think Mantolives is wasting his time trying to be (in various proportions)
(a) a lawyer
(b) journo
(c) activist
(d) agitator
(e)progressive
(f) regressive
(g) reactionary

etc.

His real calling is Marketing. This man knows how to spin, and can convince many that shit is channel no:5, and there are many who will buy it even. (I mean it in an extremely positive manner).

With Mantolives around, who needs a spin cycle?

Manto mian,

In the other post you were taking umbrage at Mehndi Hassan being described as Indian and now you are taking offence at KKL being described as Bollywood.

Now I am sure you would also be claiming that Farida Khanum, Noorjehan Begum, Abida Parveen, Dr. Abdus Salaam, Aunty Shamim and Begum Nawazish Ali are also Pakis and not Indians.

Regards

Iron mask mian,

That record must exist in your head... as most things do. What do I have to do with Aryan Mahatma and his loyal Nazi Party? I have denounced Gandhiism in all its forms and manifestations... Naziism being the worst.


Dear Swarrier,

So thats your answer ... it is not plural "Only ONE Indian news agency did it". Now you definitely meet the criterion.

So ONE news agency spreads it around as "Bollywood flick" and several newspapers call the film "naseeruddin shah's film" and/or "naseeuddin shah starrer"... even though the great Indian thespian is there in one scene- though a significant one not in length but in content.

Is it not fair to say that Indian news agencies are trying to give it this Indian connection which does not exist? Saying that the Hindu did not print it is no argument. I already said a reputable paper won't... otherwise what would be their credibility? You came here in disbelief as if no Indian was capable of it... now you are trying to cover your tracks by coming up with a silly excuse

And where the hell did I claim Rang de Basanti was an art movie? So what is it... you didn't have an argument... so you start making up stories.

Also... this KKL is NOT an art film. And I do consider popular culture art. It is the popular culture that determines the calibre of a people. We can see India's calibre in its pop videos and films. Forgive me for thinking that Pakistan and India has the same proportion of those who shake their head from side to side on such elitist fancies as "dhrupad" etc... they definitely don't constitute the nation ... neither here nor there.

So stop "expecting" anything from me. I don't expect anything from you except lies, deceit and hypocrisy.

Iron mask mian,

That record must exist in your head... as most things do. What do I have to do with Aryan Mahatma and his loyal Nazi Party? I have denounced Gandhiism in all its forms and manifestations... Naziism being the worst.


Dear Swarrier,

So thats your answer ... it is not plural "Only ONE Indian news agency did it". Now you definitely meet the criterion.

So ONE news agency spreads it around as "Bollywood flick" and several newspapers call the film "naseeruddin shah's film" and/or "naseeuddin shah starrer"... even though the great Indian thespian is there in one scene- though a significant one not in length but in content.

Is it not fair to say that Indian news agencies are trying to give it this Indian connection which does not exist? Saying that the Hindu did not print it is no argument. I already said a reputable paper won't... otherwise what would be their credibility? You came here in disbelief as if no Indian was capable of it... now you are trying to cover your tracks by coming up with a silly excuse

And where the hell did I claim Rang de Basanti was an art movie? So what is it... you didn't have an argument... so you start making up stories.

Also... this KKL is NOT an art film. And I do consider popular culture art. It is the popular culture that determines the calibre of a people. We can see India's calibre in its pop videos and films. Forgive me for thinking that Pakistan and India has the same proportion of those who shake their head from side to side on such elitist fancies as "dhrupad" etc... they definitely don't constitute the nation ... neither here nor there.

So stop "expecting" anything from me. I don't expect anything from you except lies, deceit and hypocrisy.

Yasser:

I do not know about Shoaib Mansoor. However, I may know about pull-marketing among in mass-consumer markets.

There is nothing unethical in creating viral effects through selective and sensationalized leaks, if that is what you are implying. All this marketing plan may have been put together by an independent marketing company. There is a lighthearted common belief, the marketing guys start lying, as soon as they open the mouth. There mouths and brains create amazing marketing phenomena.

Re: # 215
stop pulling his leg. He is a follower of MAJ, a greater necrophiliac than Mantolives cannot be found.

He is capable of following in the footsteps of MAJ, with a G&T in one hand and a ham sandwich in the other through the airports of Riyadh and jeddah.

Right manto ;-()

YLH
so when are you going to the bedouinland for the haj? are you even allowed there - being qadiani and all?

Re: # 213
yeah, sock it to the guy! He is the one who has be on record as saying, Nazis were great visionaries, and he sympathised with their views and methods.

Hi Manto mian. Still chasing and fighting shadows I see.

#210: Mantolives

There is no need to get offensive Manto, it shows you are descending into mouthing inanities. Now this is your post

((The Indian news agencies were trying to promote it as the "much awaited bollywood flick"... untill Shoaib Mansoor stepped in and pointed out that the only thing Bollywood has to do with is one bollywood actor who is there for less than 10 minutes.))

All I requested was clarification. One news agency is not agencies. Two or three websites carrying the same report is just one agency reporting. I remember you were trying to teach people about singular and plural nouns a few posts ago. So you must know the difference.

Again no reputable Indian newspaper that I read carried this mention "Bollywood flick".
I expect more from you, even if you, in your juvenile fantasies think Rang de Basanti is an Indian art film and pop music is the ultimate expression of art.

Beg your pardon that was July 3... not July 13.

PS: And why shouldn't I call a liar a liar? Why should I resist speaking the truth. You can take your sensibilities and shove them where the sun don't shine.

Re: # 208

When I first searched Khuda Kay Liye... after its July 13th Karachi premiere... I read it on atleast 20-30 such Indian sites. Having it on ANI is bad enough.

But before you sort out my issues ... you ought to see that you started off pathetically expressing disbelief almost as if no Indian could ever do it. Then when I showed you that one of the largest Indian news agencies did it... you declared that it must have come from Karachi.

Now you want me to produce any other report... except ANI... instead of bowing out with dignity. Then you claim with a straight face that "Proof of the pudding lies in eating it"... as if there was any more eating you could do.

And who said anything about you mentioning Shah. My reference was to the other Indian news agencies which reported on July 13 "Lal masjid fatwa again naseeruddin shah's film" ... as if it was some sort of an Pakistani-Indian issue.

My guess is that you meet in toto the minimum level I asked Pakwolf about in 198.

Re: # 207

What it throws out is what troubles you the most. Hence you chew on it .. and chew on it... and so on and so forth...

Re:#186 Mantolives.
Give me the list of websites Manto that list a report different from ANI with claims it is a Bollywood flick. If it is the report from ANI only one Indian news agency (if ANI is such) has claimed it is a Bollywood flick.

I used google and it gave me the same ANI report on about 3 websites. So you tell me how many Indian news agencies have gone to town about this supposed Bollywood flick.
Even Rediff etc have not reported it as a Bollywood flick let alone the Hindu, the Statesman, TOI etc.
So do provide other news agencies. The proof of the pudding lies in its eating.

By the way I did not mention Mr.Shah you did. Try lessening your spin. Even your erstwhile admirers will (should) not fall for your prevarication.
I see you still cannot resist bringing in people who have not yet said anything about your article. You do have some issues that need to be sorted out.

I think having double in your case is probably true.
Your mouth appears to be the same, at least from what it
throws out.

Re: # 204

This advice is better addressed to yourself.

Re: # 203
What about "inferior asses"? That occurs later in time. Mohar's intention is quite clear. Is it common in your country for one person to have many asses... and I don't mean the low caste buggers you love to oppress.

No point denying it. I've been interacting with you for a long time... and on several occasions you've shown your hatred for Muslims in general... which is alright.

But why abuse us for trying to escape your tyranny? Do you have to seek revenge of 1000 years?

May be once, at least once, you need to stop deciphering
meaning according to your prejudices instead of
understanding what is said.

Read it carefully

"you would have been a peon", there is no plural here,
it is singular, "a peon", not "peons"

Re: # 201

Come now.. "your inferior asses" is plural and what do i have to do with Lucknow for example...

But you know your true feelings came out in the spur of the moment... no point hiding it... I can see your angst is rooted in history that goes back one millenium.

I thought mohar was very specific in #193

ooohh, (sole) spokesman for all.

an indigenous

"maybe this is how it should be"

says Shishapa to

" othereise, you would have been a peon somewhere in lucknow, your inferior a##es oppresed and dominated by the hinuds with no end in sight..."


For all the tall claims... it is the millenial complexes of the caste hindu fascists...

Now if we think about it... it makes complete sense. After 1000 years of being the loyal dogs of Turks, Afghans, Persians etc... people like Mohar finally saw an opportunity to ride the "inferior asses" that they considered Muslims...

And then suddenly a indigenous Gujurati Muslim foiled their plan at the eleventh hour ...

Hence all hatred.

Brave words... from the follower of the Racist Casteist Hindu Fascist Bigot Mahatma Gandhi who believed Black people were subhuman... that lower castes ought to dine separately from upper castes etc... If you wish I'll produce copious amounts of Gandhi's own collected works to show how...

Abusing Jinnah or Pakistanis is an easier way of dealing with the deap seated inferiority complex that makes people like you interact here.


PakWolf,

Going back to your post... do you think there is a minimum level of "Chutiyapa" required to qualify as an Indian? Is it probably that which most Indian Muslims are forced to aim for ?

I've always thought being an Indian is more of a state of mind than anything physical. What say you?

Re: # 193

May be that is how it should be/should have been.
But, what do I know? Allah knows best.

It really does not matter what Mohar is, if he is Hindu
or Hindu sounding, is worthy of being exterminated.
Wonder who is better, Mr. Ghazanavi or Mr. Jinnah!

Re: # 192

If by people like Mohar... you mean crazy closeminded in the closet gay fascists ... I tend to agree.

You guys should do a pilgriamage to bedouinland just for that blessing... allah saved you from Mohar, otherwise, Mohar would be riding your a##es for eternity... :)

YLH

yep - thank allah 5 times a day... othereise, you would have been a peon somewhere in lucknow, your inferior a##es oppresed and dominated by the hinuds with no end in sight...

thank allah I am not your compatriot... :)

Yep, Mr. Jinnah made sure people like Mohar, who are not
like him are exterminated from Pakistan, and his followers
have done an excellent job.
Too bad, there is no cyber Jinnah to exterminte mohar
on the internet.
I guess Pakistanis in general just do not like dissenting
opinions, they prefer to hound out the different ones
and take joy in it.

kaal

I don't think you can continue to blame gandhi-nehru for everything - convenient as that may be... :) But it's true that their stupidity has created communal problems in india...

But that really pales in comparison with multiple what has happened in pakiland... pakis have killed fellow pakis in thousands[bangla, baloch] and continue to do so... you cannot blame that on gandhi-nehru...

Pakwolf,

With freaks like Mohar around... should we not thank god 5 times daily that we don't have to call the likes of him compatriots...

Given that most of these complaints are tit for tat sort of affairs... I think Mohsin Hamid's explanation seems more on the dot.

Pakwolf

"resentment" towards pakis is mostly in response to jihad declared against india... and big0try that is being practiced against hindus in particular and india in general, in all forums official and non-official - in paki govt policies as well as at paki "civil" society level... even text books are filled with blatant anti-hinud and anti-kafir propaganda...

Prolonged kashmir jihad, kargil war, parliament and other attacks in india has contributed immensely towards "demonization" of pakiland and rightly so...

Besides, the "demonization" has turned out to be all true... pakiland is a veritable terrorist breeding ground - exporting islamic terror around the world... So, what we have recognized years ago is now being recognized by the world at large - so much so that US presidential candidates are taking tough positions on pakiland...

See - we are NOT at all "ignorant" about the reality of pakiland... we know exactly what is going on there... and the world does too...

Anil...

Then you obviously don't know Shoaib Mansoor...

Kaalchakra,

I can assure you PakWolf is not me... the difference between Bacha Khan and those who remained back in India is quite clear however.

While many who had been League stalwarts... like Hasrat Mohani or Muhammad Ismail... became loyal Indian citizens working for the betterment for their community and standing for a pluralistic democratic India ... Bacha Khan - despite his oath of allegiance- with Gandhi's blessings released the whole Pushtun nationalist shosha, called into question the future of Durand Line and declared that owing to the westernised leadership Pakistan would never be a Sharia based state... hence Pathans needed their own state.

So while one praises Ghaffar Khan for his valiant fight against colonial rule (remember Jinnah alone campaigned for his release from prison in 1930 or 1931 and his inclusion in the round table delegation), one fails to see the unflinching "goodness" even from the Indian point of view... unless ofcourse you want to desperately believe it.


Pakwolf,

Very aptly put.

Swarrier...

How pathetic. It is either you don't know how the agencies work or you are just being dishonest ... I'd like to believe it is the latter. ANI probably got the report off from a press release... added the words "Bollywood flick"... and then spread it around. Next you are going to tell me "Naseeruddin Shah's Film" was also not a brilliant Indian idea?

The story was carried by most Indian news websites etc. If you search Bollywood flick and Khuda Kay Liye... you'll see what I am saying. But if you expect The Hindu to feature in that list... I would hope not... because The Hindu is a great newspaper which has always given a balanced picture. I am guessing that it would not have carried it like this.

However... India is unfortunately full of Sadna types... who will twist anything to one up on Pakistan... and people who read The Hindu etc are few and far between.

pakwolf, is that you, Manto? Because that is the kind of thing that Manto will say and I agree fully.

There is one more 'unpseakable/hidden truth' in India, that you may, as a nationalist, recognize as an issue.

One always knew that not all Muslims/Hindus/Christians who campaigned vigorously for Pakistan moved to Pakistan. Many decided to stay back. I just learnt that some of these people continued - in Nehru's time - to hold important offices in public service.

Now, if you look at it from a non-Muslim, nationalist position, that is the most amazing and absurd situation possible. To claim that people are the same, equally dedicated to your country just because they live in your country does not make sense, except to Gandhi-Nehru who never understood anything in the first place. For all his supposed goodness (from Indian point of view), even Badshah Khan had to pay a heavy price.

So, thanks to Gandhi-Nehru, inter-religious problems continued to plague India, in many ways undiminished. That sectarian problems have unfortunately risen in Pakistan does not negate the issue of differing religious perceptions in India - at least from the layman's perspective.

In reply to Nandan’s post #172.

It never fails to shock me how ignorant our neighbors’ across the border are about their perception vs. reality of the current Pakistan society.


It is safe to say that Indian Hindus see Pakistani Muslims in the prism of Indian Muslims. Having said that we share the same religion with some Indian counter parts but over 60 years of independence we have evolved into our own distinct identity.

As Pakistani writer Mohsin Hamid put it eloquently:

“I think the demonization of Pakistan in India is more than here because Pakistan has no substantial Hindu community. So the average Pakistani deals with India only as a concept. There is not much entrenched actual bigotry. India, on the other hand, has over 100 million Muslims. This is a very real issue, sometimes a very real problem for many Indians. Pakistan gets lumped along with that, so the resentment towards it in India is much more�.

In my numerous personal encounters with Indian foreign students in US where I also came as a foreign student I recalled introducing myself without feeling the need to identify myself as a Pakistani Muslim. I noticed that the Hindu students ridiculed the minorities. But as soon as I told them I am Pakistani suddenly I could experience the chill in the air almost fear and then these same Indian students would be reluctant to say a word against Muslims.
As a freshman I made friends with a guy from Bombay and another one from Aligarh and in one discussion I mentioned the obvious that in comparison Indian has far more poverty than Pakistan. I recall the Muslim boy from Aligarh cautioning me “That not to so say such things as the Hindus get angry� this came as a revelation because for one thing I had no fear saying what I want to an Indian regardless of their religious orientation in their face.

At this point I realized the Indian Muslim phenomena of appeasing the Hindus to stay on their good sides to avoid the wrath of the dominant community. Now as a Pakistani I can easily say that I never came across a Hindu person so I had no concept of it and I was always shocked to see the ignorance they had about Pakistan in general that every woman wears a burqa or hijab man have beards etc. I believe the Indians base this concept on the miss-information fed to them by jingoistic Indian and western media along with what they have experienced with their own Muslim population which by rule as a minority population would be more apt to defend its norms against the dominant environment as suggested by social-anthropologists.

Re: # 182 Zeemax

Here again you see, is the vidence that Na Pak fouj used Napalm Bombs to incinerate school children to death in this massacre. This is what Um-e-Hassaan refers to as "Petrol Bombs".

If memory serves me right, Geneva Convention prohibits the use of Napalms during the combat operation and this was no combat operation. It was simply a massacre of school children. This brings this crime of Na Pak fouj at par with that of Saddam Hussain who used American supplied chemical weapons on Communist faction of Kurds in 1980s. This also qualifies this case to be brought to the notice of ICC - International criminal Court in the Hague who tries murderous despots like Milosovich and Musharaf.

Yasser:

I would not be surprised that it is all part of "release" marketing gimmick to compare and claim to be from Bollywood. Looking at the popularity of Bollywood in Pakistan, this gimmick can fill the cinema halls, for many to go and compare.

I also agree with your implicaiton that from chaos comes out the creativity. Pakistani artist can create and leverage Bollywood machine (it indeed is a powerful machine) to benefit from their talents.

Re: # 178

The same questions are also directed towards Yazids and Shimmers too, which he refers to as Liberal Fascists. But from them he does not ask for an answer. Here is a poem dedicated to the Libral Fascists of this day:



Qatilo Yeh jagha kuchh naee to naheen
Ye jagha is se pahle bhi sajti rahee
Fauj ke silsile aur tabl-o-alam
Lashkaron ki safen, azm ke qafile
Jan lene ka dar, jan dene ki dhun
Puri dunyan pe qabze ka tha ek nasha
Taj ki takht ki bhook thi ek taraf
Aur yaheen the who sab,
Sar pe bahdhe kafan
Jo usulon pe mitne ko tayyar the
Is jagha zulm ki had muqarrar hui
Aur shahadat ke paimane banche gaye
Yeh wahee ret hai, yeh wahee dhool hai
Nainawa hai wahi, karbala hai wahee
Teer bhi, sang bhi, bediyan bhi wahee
Ham ne pahle bhi parkhe hain zalim yahan
Ham ne pahle bhi dekhe hain naizon pe sar
Khoon-e-nahaq ki khushboo hai ab tak yahan
Is ko pahchan lo,



Qatilo Yeh jagha kuchh naee to naheen
Ye jagha is se pahle bhi sajti rahee

Jeet kar jang pahle bhi hare the tum
Jeet kar jang phir har jao ge tum
Aur tareekh apne ko dohraigee
Qatilo is se pehle bhi aisa hua
Qatl ho kar bhi bazee hamari rahee

Qatilo Yeh jagha kuchh naee to naheen
Ye jagha is se pahle bhi sajti rahee

------- Gauhar Raza

Re;#176
Manto I asked a simple question. You have provided me one link that even I found, but I was unable to find any reputable Indian newspaper that represented this film as a Bollywood flick. New Kerala may represent a prominent website to you but it is not to me and a host of other Indians. As for ANI I see that the news comes from Karachi, what is to prevent me from saying that it was report from Pakistan.
One news report copied on a couple of websites does not equal touting a film as a Bollywood flick.
One swallow does not a summer make.

As far as trickery is concerned I think the shoe is firmly on the other foot since you are trying to pass of a single news report as something that every news agency carried.

I see my task is not going to be easy. -)

One wonders why Hamid Mir has gone to Kufa... at such an important time in our history.

HAMID MIR and Survivors of Lal Masjid Massacre ask some poignant questions from Ehl-e-Kufa.

Swarrier...

Are you back to your trickery to defend the indefensible?

Read this:

http://www.newkerala.com/july.php?action=fullnews&id=46884

And then try searching "Bollywood flick" and Khuda Kay Liye in google.

ANI is perhaps the largest privately owned Indian news agency ... after PTI ... I think.

Does anybody know which were the prominent indian news agencies that claimed this to be a Bollywood flick?

nandan,

Mian thank God for that indeed. And no one is comparing this to Rang de basanti... we don't wish to insult "Khuda Ke Liye".

does any one have info if this film will be screened in the UK.
i would recommend the german film 'other people's lives'a powerful film against totalitarian system.

in the EU cinema is heavly subsidised

one cant compare this with movie with range de basanti...because India is not pakistan....thank god for it

"the only winners here are the United Satans or the
Coalition-of-the-Killing( there! coined another one)."

Why is the United States considered Stan by you. Do you deny that US gives more right to its own people than our own maliks and leaders give to us?

Re: # 166zeemax

Moon se ek baar laga laitay jo maula paani
Dashtay ghurbat mein na youn toakhrain khaata paani

Kaun kehta hai ke paani ko tarastay thay hussain?
Un ke hoonton ko tarasta raha piyasaa paani

Garchay baidard ne piyaasa hi kiya zibah unko
saabeeron ki magar aankhon mein na aaya paani

Mushk liye haath mein hazratay shabeer ki daikhay to koi
Nehar qadmon mein thi aur moon se naan maanga paani.

Zeemax:162

The persons about whom these verses are written, were neither shias nor sunnis. They were just Muslims.
_____________________________________________________________
Apt reply indeed.

I have vowed to myself that I'll never ever use the term Shia or Sunni again..or for that matter W D B or this V or that V...nor will I participate in any discussions, in an open forum, which helps our enemies to divide us. I also do not like to see wedges created among Muslim-Hindu-Sikhs either...the only winners here are the United Satans or the
Coalition-of-the-Killing( there! coined another one).

Allah knows , parrot-like, we keep on talking about the divide/rule formula but again & again parrot-like we keep uttering this & hop into the net of the trappers & poachers, the White Man.

Re: # 165

I think problem is that that people like that in Jamiah Hafsa and Lal masjid stress on submitting to only One Lord (swt) without shirk and Polytheism. They profess that path to our Lord does not go thru a dead man's grave, or thru a living man's will. There is only one path to our Lord and that path is the one that was shown to us by our Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him). In order to make him deviate from this path our Holy prophet (pbuh) was coerced with wealth, threatened with murder, intimidated with attempts on his life, ex-communicated, tortured, and exiled. These are the wages of being on the righteous path. But everytime when there is a Nimrod there is an Abraham (pbuh) to face him; everytime there is a Pharoa there is a Moses (pbuh), everytime there is an Abu Jehl there is Mohammad (pbuh); everytime there is a Yazid there is Hussain (as). Moulana AbdulRashid Ghazi Shaheed has continued this sunnat and faced the Pharoa of his time and has become immortal.

All I am saying is that the people that these are dedicated to, would not approve of it if they were alive. They would much prefer a surah from the quran. Because such poetry and references to karbala are regarded as vagaries in deobandi and wahabi madaris.

The new lal masjid taken over in Mohmand Agency was a Barelvi shrine, so obviously the rocket men dont share Zeemax's enthusiasm for the "one muslim" concept.

The following holds as true for the Hafsa people as it did for the original martyrs:

Mohammad (pbuh) ke ghulam ne jo kee teghoN ke saaye mein
bashar to kya farishtoN se na aise bandagi hogi

hamare khooN ke badle mein ummat bakhsh de Ya Rab
Khuda se hashr mein ye iltijaa Shaheed ne ki hogi

mujhe jaane do paani bhar ke ye Abbas kehte the
kayi din ki pyaasi hai Sakina ro rahi hogi

luti hai jaise duniya Karbala mein ibn-e-Haider ki
kisi mazloom ki duniya na duniya mein luti hogi

#163 Posted by Naqshbandi,

Naqshbandi ... the subject of those verses were neither shias, nor sunnis, nor 'wahabis', nor deobandi, nor barelvi. They were just 'Muslims'. Jamia Hafsa people were the 'same'.

Now what problem do you have with that?

Naqshbandi

I appeal to your good conscience that if you have in your heart as much love for our Master (pbuh) as a grain of rice, you would stop calling Muslims by their sects. There is only one sect in islam, the sect of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Ironically they broke up into sects only when the knowledge had come to them, due to the jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision by your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubt.

..................... The Council 42:14

adamkhan wasn't calling the martyrs of Karbala Shias but rather referring to the writer of the couplets. You, Urstruly, a self-confessed admirer of the Wahabi Shah Ismail, are now using verses meant as marsiya for Imam e Aali Maqaam for people whose very ideology espoouses a visceral hatred of the Ahle Bayt! Indeed, these Wahabis who were slaughtered in Lal Masjid routinely refer to Imam Hussain as a 'baaghi' and consider Yazid a rightful Amir al Mumineen.

Such hypocrisy!

#161 Posted by adamkhan,

The persons about whom these verses are written, were neither shias nor sunnis. They were just Muslims.

hmm it is quite ironic to dedicate Shia couplets to the deceased members of the Wahabi sect. The departed souls would indeed object to it. While their living fellow members would surely kill you for it.

SaimaShah#125:

"It is of concern that all cultures exposed to untempered capitalism over a few decades lose their art forms."

This is an astounding generalisation. Could you please explain the relationship between Capitalism and the loss of art forms? If your statement were correct, all creative art forms in the last half of the last century would have originated in socialist regimes, such as China, Soviet Union, Cuba, Nyrere's Tanzania or Nehru's India. The reality was quite the opposite. Taking Cinema, which is what we are discussing here, the best of Cinema came from France, Italy, Spain and Sweden and Japan - all of them capitalist countries.

As for India, you are perhaps not exposed to the resurgence of arts there, especially classical music and dance form. Even in the barren land of Ottawa, I get to see, on average, one performance a month of classical music and dance from visiting artists in India. And what I find truly impressive is that the new artists, especially from South and Maharashtra, are well educated, highly articulate and accomplished in other fields as well. Even Bollywood produces some good films but you have to move out of the Karan Johar/Yash Chopra genre of films. In recent times, I have seen quite a few intelligent films, such as Omkaara, Khosla ka Ghosla, Eklavya, Parineeta and Raincoat.

#158 Posted by MantoLives,

Actually they had saved all those rocket launchers and anti-personnel mines for the photo-session after the fact ... so as not to get the shine off them ... and made do with kalashnikovs for 9 days.... :)

The innocents of Karbala did not store weapons in Medina's Masjid-e-Nabvi...

Have some shame.

Re: # 155

Please refrain from being a typical Kufi and stop disrespecting the shaheeds who chose the life of eternity following the sunnat of Innocents of Karbala.

Mohar

Zee is not a "fundoo" nor a sufi. He is just a good Muslim.

Marriage between Christian man and Muslim woman? - hmmm, since both are people of book, that may be so, but it's unlikely Islam would accept that union easily without the man converting to Islam.
----------------------------------

manto, echo

First it was Punjabis, now you guys. Stop exchanging secret codes :)

urstruly,
by posting those verses which were written for the blessed shuhada of karbala shareef and using them for the terrorists of lal masjid, you are insulting the blessed martyrs of karbala.

mujhe jaane do paani bhar ke ye Abbas kehte the
kayi din ki pyaasi hai Sakina ro rahi hogi

luti hai jaise duniya Karbala mein ibn-e-Haider ki
kisi mazloom ki duniya na duniya mein luti hogi

Mohammad (pbuh) ke ghulam ne jo kee teghoN ke saaye mein
bashar to kya farishtoN se na aise bandagi hogi

hamare khooN ke badle mein ummat bakhsh de Ya Rab
Khuda se hashr mein ye iltijaa Shaheed ne ki hogi

144:برادرم منٹو اولوز ساحب


اپ Ù†Û’ یھان اردو مین اپنا جواب Ù„Ú©Ú¾ کر جو Ú¾Ù… سب Ú©ÛŒ ھمت اÙ?زای Ú©ÛŒ Ú¾Û’ مینن Ù†Ú¾ صرÙ? اس کا معترÙ? ھون بلکھ آپ کا شکر گزآر اور احسانمند بھی

Re: # 147

I guess it is worth it ;)

Re: # 146

here is the angrez version (I think)
http://news.sawf.org/Bollywood/40196.aspx

Petition filed against 'Khuda Kay Liye' in Lahore High Court
Posted on 19 July 2007 (EST)
The screening of the movie "Khuda Kay Liye" has been challenged in the Lahore High Court with allegations that it promotes anti-Islamic values.

Lahore, July 19 (ANI): The screening of the movie Khuda Kay Liye has been challenged in the Lahore High Court with allegations that it promotes anti-Islamic values.

Advocate M D Tahir, in his petition, said that the movie attempts to disturb law and order in Pakistan.

In the movie, a joint venture of US, India and Pakistan, Indian actor Naseer-ud-Din Shah announces that a marriage between a Muslim women and Christian man is allowed in Islam, the Daily Times quoted Tahir, as saying.

The film, starring Shah, Shaan, Iman Ali and Fawad Khan, is Geo Films’ project is aimed at reviving Pakistan's ailing film industry. It will open in all theaters across Pakistan tomorrow.

The film is about two brothers who are pop musicians in Lahore, one of whom gets radicalized under the influence of extremists, while the other goes to America and gets unlawfully detained after 9/11. It is the story of Mary (Maryam), a British girl of Pakistani origin, who is brought to Pakistan by her father and married off against her will. (ANI)

Bhagat singh wrote in bedouin script?... hmmm... interesting...

So fundoos don't like the movie at all - huh?... no surprise there... how come zeemax likes it?

Re: # 146

The same bedouin text... which ironically Bhagat Singh wrote his letters in...

But this is actually BBC's Urdu Service story about fundos going to court against the movie.

dash_dot
[...Otherwise there was a sense of deja vu...]

Of course... yet another pakis turns into a flaming jihadi... happens all the time...

So nothing earth-shattering in this movie - huh? I mean - is it worth a buck they charge for desi rentals these days?

YLH says he is a muslim again... and now he has started posting squiggly text that only real muslims urstruly and zeemax used to post... what the heck is going on?... what does the text in bedouin script say?

zee
[...Still, your recommendations for the list are welcome...]

Sure - But your selection criteria baffles me... I mean - a qadiani secularoon like YLH lives while pure blood sunni pretty pathan boy like Hamdim dies... that makes no sense...

What about people who eat pork?

عدالت میں

احمدرضا
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، کراچی





نصیرالدین شاÛ? اس Ù?لم میں ایک عالم کا کردار نبھا رÛ?Û’ Û?یں
سندھ Û?ائی کورٹ Ú©Û’ Ú†ÛŒÙ? جسٹس صبیح الدین احمد Ù†Û’ Ù?لم ’خدا Ú©Û’ لیے‘ Ú©ÛŒ نمائش بند کرانے Ú©ÛŒ درخواست دینے والے ایک مدرس Ú©Û’ وکیل سے Ú©Û?ا Û?Û’ Ú©Û? ÙˆÛ? قرآن Ùˆ سنت Ú©ÛŒ روشنی میں ثابت کریں Ú©Û? خدا موسیقی اور مصوری Ú©Ùˆ ناپسند کرتا Û?Û’Û”
جسٹس صبیح الدین احمد Ù†Û’ ÛŒÛ? Û?دایت منگل Ú©Ùˆ Ù?لم Ú©ÛŒ نمائش Ú©Û’ خلاÙ? درخواست Ú©ÛŒ سماعت Ú©Û’ دوران اس وقت Ú©ÛŒ جب درخواست گزار Ú©Û’ وکیل Ù†Û’ موسیقی اور مصوری Ú©Û’ خلاÙ? مختلÙ? Ù?تووں کا حوالÛ? دیا۔

ÛŒÛ? درخواست جامعÛ? بنوری العالمی سائیٹ کراچی Ú©Û’ مدرس سیÙ? اللÛ? ربانی Ù†Û’ داخل Ú©ÛŒ Û?Û’ جس میں محکمۂ ثقاÙ?ت حکومت سندھ، جیو Ù¹ÛŒ وی، پیمرا، Ù?لم سنسر بورڈ اور Ù?لم Ú©Û’ ڈائریکٹر شعیب منصور Ú©Û’ علاوÛ? Ù?لم سٹارز شان اور ایمان علی اور پرنس سنیما کراچی Ú©Û’ مالک Ú©Ùˆ جوابدÛ? بنایا گیا Û?Û’Û”

درخواست گزار کا موقÙ? Û?Û’ Ú©Û? Ù?لم ’خدا Ú©Û’ لیے‘ اسلامی تعلیمات Ú©Û’ مناÙ?ÛŒ خیالات پر مبنی Û?Û’ØŒ Ù„Û?ذا اس Ú©ÛŒ نمائش Ù?وری طور پر بند کرائی جائے اور Ù?لم بنانے اور اس میں کام کرنے والوں Ú©Û’ علاوÛ? Ù?لم Ú©ÛŒ نمائش اور تشÛ?یر کرنے والوں Ú©Û’ خلاÙ? تعزیرات پاکستان Ú©Û’ تحت اسلام Ú©Ùˆ نقصان Ù¾Û?نچانے اور مسلمانوں Ú©Û’ جذبات مجروح کرنے Ú©Û’ جرم میں کارروائی Ú©ÛŒ جائے۔

جسٹس صبیح الدین احمد اور جسٹس اÙ?ضل سومر پر مشتمل Û?ائی کورٹ Ú©ÛŒ دو رکنی بینچ Ù†Û’ جب درخواست Ú©ÛŒ سماعت شروع Ú©ÛŒ تو درخواست گزار Ú©Û’ وکیل مقبول الرحمن Ù†Û’ Ù?لم Ú©Û’ اس جملے کا حوالÛ? دیا جس میں بھارتی اداکار نصیرالدین شاÛ? ایک عالم کا کردار نبھاتے Û?وئے Ú©Û?تے Û?یں: ’میں ÛŒÛ? کیسے مان لوں Ú©Û? خدا موسیقی اور مصوری سے Ù†Ù?رت کرتا Û?ے۔‘


شان Ù†Û’ Ù?لم میں اÛ?Ù… رول ادا کیا Û?Û’

مقبول الرحمن Ù†Û’ موسیقی اور مصوری Ú©Û’ خلاÙ? مختلÙ? علما Ú©Û’ Ù?تووں کا حوالÛ? دیتے Û?وئے Ú©Û?ا Ú©Û? اسلام میں موسیقی اور مصوری دونوں Ú©ÛŒ ممانعت Û?Û’ اور اس Ú©Û’ خلاÙ? Ù?توے موجود Û?یں۔

اس پر Ú†ÛŒÙ? جسٹس Û?ائی کورٹ صبیح الدین احمد Ù†Û’ ان سے Ú©Û?ا Ú©Û? ÙˆÛ? Ù?تووں کا حوالÛ? Ù†Û? دیں بلکÛ? اگر قرآن Ùˆ حدیث میں اس بارے میں کوئی شواÛ?د پیش کرسکتے Û?یں تو کریں۔ عدالت Ù†Û’ اس درخواست Ú©ÛŒ آئندÛ? سماعت Ú©Û’ لیے دس اگست Ú©ÛŒ تاریخ مقرر Ú©ÛŒ Û?Û’Û”

’خدا Ú©Û’ لیے‘ Ú©ÛŒ نمائش پرنس سنیما کراچی سمیت ملک Ú©Û’ مختلÙ? سنیما گھروں میں جاری Û?Û’ جس میں لوگ غیرمعمولی دلچسپی کا اظÛ?ار کر رÛ?Û’ Û?یں۔

ÛŒÛ? Ù?لم آج Ú©Ù„ اسلامی دنیا خاص طور پر پاکستان جیسے ممالک میں زیر بحث جÛ?اد، موسیقی، مغربی لباس اور زبردستی Ú©ÛŒ شادی جیسے موضوعات Ú©Û’ گرد گھومتی Û?Û’ اور اس میں موسیقی اور مغربی لباس Ú©Ùˆ غیراسلامی قرار دینے والوں Ú©Û’ مقابلے میں ایسے علماء پر سامنے آنے Ú©Û’ لیے زور دیا گیا Û?Û’ جو اپنے موقÙ? Ú©Ùˆ پیش کرنے میں اب تک سستی سے کام لیتے رÛ?Û’ Û?یں۔

Maulana zeemax (RA),

You did not answer Mohar's question fully. Manto mian is not only a Qadiani secularoooooooon but also a kanjarooooon as he is recommending people to watch movies. Would it not be blaspehmous on his part to describe himself as a Muslimoooon.

Regards

Re: # 130

I was able to see the movie yesterday evening - got a DVD from a friend who got it from a Shop on Turnpike Lane (near the big Cash&Carry there is apparently a shop which does these DVDs)

The movie was good in parts - my reservations in #9 still hold. It was modern, thought the phtography/camera work was dizzying in places. Otherwise there was a sense of deja vu.

(Mantolives saima shah on #10 was spot on).

#129 Posted by mohar11,

...are you going to spare YLH ... target of your guillotine?.....secularoon ..... I mean..how can a qadiani secularoon be a muslim - right?

I'm glad you asked this question. Manto is NOT an enemy of Islam. Only the enemies of Islam are headed towards the guillotines. Being a secular or a non-Muslim is not being at war with Islam. Being a proselytizing murtad, a munafique or a conspirator with the enemy irrespective of caste, creed or colour is.

So I assure you there will be plenty of candidates. Still, your recommendations for the list are welcome.

That's downright weird, manto. Is the movie being (simultaneouosly or later) released in India too? That could be a big market, as well.

Re: #133

The Indian news agencies were trying to promote it as the "much awaited bollywood flick"... untill Shoaib Mansoor stepped in and pointed out that the only thing Bollywood has to do with is one bollywood actor who is there for less than 10 minutes.

Re: # 137

BJ mian,

I haven't responded to most interacts. Just a select few... a total of 10 or 12... out of the 118 non-YLH posts.

For most reasonable people that should be enough evidence... but then we can never commit the sacrilege of considering you "reasonable".

#124 Yasser

Yasser, you can not pull lawyerspeak on me!

You said in #19 you won't be responding to most interacts - but the reality is quite opposite! I see you are sitting here like a stone that won't "pass"! Hence the "fibber" term.

And yes, you are AMONG the people with the maximum no. of interacts (you kindly provided the counts yourself)!

And to write a review, shouldn't you spell the movie's name the way its creators did?! (see the picture in #135)?!

Chowk staff, can you bring back the "review" feature?! This "blind posting" sucks.

I finally got it why Yasser said "warts and all"!

http://www.inthenameofgod.com/images%5Ckkl_w%5CSHAN_1024x768.jpg

If this movies helps to start movie industry will be best thing. In usa and India hundreds of thousand people are employed in this industry gainfully. Then movie theatre construction, people giving all services will have multiplying effect and people will get many more jobs. Let us hope it starts new business for peolple create wealth and jobs which sorely needed in country.
As usual YLH has written very good article. Just like me many were afraid if he has left chowk due to his professional work as attorney of left for wrting in big news papers. It is good to know YLH is back.

One hears a lot of excitement about this movie. First, for its theme. Second, for what it may mean for the revival of Pakistani cinema.

With so much talk about it, I am sure it will draw in Indians too. :)

btw, i was watching GEO and i caught something about some person or government minister who has filed a case against this film to try and get it banned on the basis that it misrepresents Islam! Is this true?

yasser,
from the trailer it seems to me that naseeruddin shah's character is playing a sufi - 'apna baatin saaf karo; andar aag lagao...' and the other bearded chap is playing a taliban-like wahabi.
this is true. the biggest battle for islam's soul is being fought now between wahabism and orthodoxy. if wahabism wins, it will be a tragic end to one of the world's great religions.
insha Allah Wahabism (and its various manifestations) will not win.

Re: # 106

manto,
i hope it gets a europe-wise release too so i can watch it or i will have to wait till the inevitable pirate DVD comes out at least.

i sadly missed the parade in london. i wanted to go but it slipped my mind--even though i was IN london on that day!!

So zeemax - when your type take over pakiland- are you going to spare YLH or is he also a target of your guillotine?... I mean - the guy is a secularoon, you know...

Even though lately he is flaunting his muslim-ness a bit more... for example: he says some thing he saw in the movie "made a muslim" out if him... that's a clear give away - I mean,come on, how can a qadiani secularoon be a muslim - right?

So - a paki turned into a flaming jihadi - what's so poignant about that?...

But may be I will watch this movie - I have never watched a paki movie... Is this available in US? What language is this in - pushtu or something?

#126 Posted by philosopher

sorry... Re: # 10 saimashah

Re: # 10 sai9mashah

((((It also interests me that pantheism as a spiritual practice does not require the global understanding of who 'we' are that Islam does. For example, you can choose what to worship how to worship where to worship etc., without any confusion on the 'right' way. Whereas for the past several hundred years, the debate on the right way to practice Islam has kept people of Islam full of worry, angst and confusion as to what being good is all about))))


So you are suggesting that the mode of worship and its ''social implications'' would determine the technical 'validity' of a certain philosophical system(in this case pantheism and islamic tauheed) dealing with the ontological chrachter of ulitimate reality????

Please explain.

Re: # 85

Manto,

Yes. Glad you agree about the conflict and art connection. Great art emerges from great pain. Pakistani youth and society are suffering the most and therefore their art has a great depth. It has always been remarkable that Muslims in the sub-continent have provided a lot to the creative literary arts. To this day scripts of Hindi movies are written in Urdu. I am sorry to see that Indian popular culture has become so incredibly shallow, I believe that India renders amazing art and is probably continuing to do so in pockets. Unfortunately we are only exposed to popular Indian culture--and it may be that deeper reflections are an elite vs. mainstream crowd thing (like in USA). It is of concern that all cultures exposed to untempered capitalism over a few decades lose their art forms. There is little doubt in India about the benefits of capitalism per se.

My dear BJkumar,

Since you have a habit of proving yourself to be a chutiya first class...

Could you answer the following:

1. Where am I on the record saying that I will not interact? Did you imagine that in your head?

2. Do you think zeemax is my secret nick- because he has the most interacts...

Zeemax : 40 interacts.

Mantolives: 18 interacts (counting this one)


So either you are really stupid (which I am inclined to believe) or you just have a habit of putting your foot in the mouth.

Have a good one explaining away why god made you such a liar (my guess is that it has to do with the wrong kind of icon... you know the half naked fakir in the chaddi).

I come back after a few hours, and what do I find?!

What else? Yasser was fibbing, as usual!

The guy is on record that he was not going to interact - yet count who has among the maximum number of posts here!

Sure enough, Yasser is sitting here - feasting off all those remarks and getting bloated!

Like an entrenched khatmaal, no less! Good Lord!

Or, as per the movie title....KKL!

#121 Posted by echoboom,

:-)

Zeemax &
others (only upon request)

message center ZINDABAD...keep an eye there!

#119 Posted by echoboom,

Echoboom you have to teach how to do this so Philosopher can write his immaculate Urdu like "Kauransh bajaa laataa hoon" etc ....

114:Urstruly


جناب یورز ٹرولی صاحب.- ...
..بعد از سلام عرض Û?Û’ Ú©Û? کاآًنات اپنے محور پر بخوبی رقصاں Û?Û’.

#117 Posted by Urstruly,

Yeah. The script seems to have changed.

Thanks zeemax, probably it is the quotation marks.

#112 Posted by Urstruly,

Try posting the fo9llowing with the usual img src etc but without the quote marks:

http://www.jang.net/jm/7-27-2007/images/15_08.gif

Urstruly:
" Yaar laut aaeN-gey, Ghum naa kar, Ghum naa kar
Din nikal aaey-Gaa, GhUm naa kar, GhUm naa kar"."

"Muulk-e Khuuda tUNG naist, Paaey gUddaa lUNG naist"

tr:
God's country has no frontiers, and the legs of the Faqueer are not wobbly

Re: # 99 Urdu press might be joke about 10 years ago, but now it is a force to be reckoned with.

Zeemax & Echoboom

I am really frustrated with my inability to post information that is deliberately hidden from a wider global audience about the attrocities and crimes being committed against the citizens of Pakistan by Liberal Fascists and haramkhor naPak fouj.

Last week I wanted to post the interview of a Jamiah faridiah student who has survived the massacre at Lal masjid. According to his discription there is no doubt in my mind that criminal NaPak fouj has used phosporus based Napalm bombs against the school childrens during their assault. When I read that, I checked all the footage and photographical eveidence that is avaible and found out that his claims are 100% true. These motherfukkers have killed those school children withou any mercy. The lives of school kids are not worth of dogs for these m/fs.

The very fact that the Oooons are aaahing and Ooooing over it
is a clear giveaway that it is there to promote the Secularoon agenda..

This at a time when the Kuttaa-Paak is in the throes of death and gasping his last breaths.

The anglo-enamoured are still wiggling their arses when The United Satans are arranging the deals so that MUSLIMS do not become the rulers in the ISLAMIC Pakistan.

But there is still hope..as long as Kanjar is still considered a Gaali..and not worn as a sign of maaader-nateness & enlightenment.

#109 Posted by MantoLives,

At-least you're consistent, just as consistent as HP is. It was all a drama. :) But more dramas will follow ... so enjoy the theatre :)

Re: # 108

Yaar Zeemax... there is no mass grave in H-11... that was a hoax by the Maulanas... later on they started the whole two bodies in one casket drama...

All of this is without evidence.

#104 Posted by MantoLives,

You're just in total denial. But the truth will come out once the mass graves in H-11 are dug up.

#101 Posted by MantoLives,

Read the following. This is not by teeth_maestro. It is from Daily Jang. The largest Urdu Daily.

I hope this film gets a UK release. I thought of you Naqshbandi during this movie... this movie is about the clash between the high church and the low church.

On another note.. I am guessing that you didn't go to the Pakistani parade that Ally and Ras and others are talking about?

I caught it on TV... it was awesome...

The trailers are fantastic and Iman Ali looks great (much better than any Bollywood actress--Ashwarya Rai included.)

Frankly I don't know where or what that thing is...

Manto,

Do you think this is a wig?

Good write-up and review Yasser.
I can't wait to watch it. Is it coming out in the UK?
Is it possible to download it yet?! When is the DVD releasing?

It is good to see a Pakistani film which for once is of international calibre.

Re: # 100

I did try to follow that train of thought after "Teeth Maestro" broke the news on his blog... found nothing conclusive I am afraid regarding White Phosphorus...

Fallujah I thought was the result of other kinds of weapons like Napalm etc but I am very ignorant about this warfare crap.

#93 Posted by MantoLives,

(WP is a material used to create smokescreen and camouflage and is almost as much a chemical weapon as tear gas)

Try googling for some images of use of WP in Fallujah, and discover what WP does to human flesh.

Re: # 97

The Urdu Press is a joke and you know it. You might as well read the US Tabloids to get your news...

Outside of Men in Black... there is no truth in US tabloids in Pakistan's Urdu press.

Re: # 96

My dear friend, with all due respect, the only "Kanjar" I have come across here is you.

#93 Posted by MantoLives,

I can't believe you're saying this. Have you seen the photos of women's scalps lying in the drain behind Hafsa? Are you aware most bodies were burnt beyond recognition? And that there were still bare bones being picked out by relatives from the ruins last friday?

You should read some Urdu press.

90:
Probably because there is NO evidence of such an outrageous figure really
_____________________________________________________________
"Iss saadgee pai kaun naa mUr jaaeY, ai khudaa!
LarRtay haiN aur haath meiN talvaar bhhee naheeN"

A poor bangle-man ( choorRee valaa) with his wares tied to his back in a poatlee, was going along happily..

A Uniformed & corrupt Musharraf striking a dandaa on the burden on the bangleman's back shrieked" what is it you are stealing in this?"
and the ChoorRee valaa said:
" Sarkaar!Used to be bangles..Now there is only broken glass

"SheeshoaN kaa maseehaa koee naheeN"!.

Zeemax:
The english newspapers are written for faariners. The Kanjaroons want to paint an image of Pakistan as a non-muslims state..They try their best but these damn maulanaas ruin the carefully constructed KanjarR image
("Look! We drink, we have gymkhanass, we lie on the beach, we show skin, we have fashion-parades, we even dare to date NOW..AREN'T WE STILL NOT TOTALLY FCUKED GORAY-ABAA?..PLEASE VISIT AMMMAN SOON")

Maybe so... but that is neither here nor there when proving the outrageous figure being quoted by the Urdu press ...

BTW ... I have seen a clip with my own eyes which was only run ONCE on Geo, and then removed. That was a parent who was trying to reach the gate and was shot by the security forces. He tried to crawl away and tried to get up, and was shot again. Then he lay still.

Re: # 92

My friend... the Government's guestimate was based on Madrassa's own claims and way before the siege started.

The fact of the matter is that a fortnight later we don't even have a single piece of evidence to prove either of the two things:

1. That the Government is fudging figures

or

2. That the Government has suppressed evidence...


The whole White Phosphorus joke didn't do much for the credibility of the accusers (WP is a material used to create smokescreen and camouflage and is almost as much a chemical weapon as tear gas)...

#91 Posted by MantoLives,

Manto, the figures don't tally. As per the Govt's own published estimates there were 2500 plus girls aged between 7-19 in there. The Hafsa management also kept quoting around the same figure. 592 came out in the early stage also as per Govt's lists released. Another 27 came out with Umme-Hassan just before the final assault and the phosphorous. That is 619. Whaere did the rest go?

Re: # 90

Probably because there is NO evidence of such an outrageous figure really.

Urstruly,Echoboom,

Can you believe the english language press has not reported that figure at all? Quoted in the National Assembly? I had read this report and then read Dawn and the others. No mention at all.

... contd ... #88

Actually there's no www. Rest of URL is correct ... :-)

#84 Posted by Urstruly,

The url should be /Sub_Images/ instead of /Images/

Urstruly:
CHOWK is fine, only some gestating glitches in their baitaa-CPU. Have some heart.

Re: # 10

Dear Saima,

Worshipping the right way or wrong way is not the issue. I think the remarkable internal confusion that we face itself is capable of fueling us into creating remarkable art.

A fascinating comparison is the respective Pakistani and Indian "pop" music scenes... the "restrictive" Pakistani society creates songs, music and videos that firmly stamp themselves in your mind. The unrestricted Indian "pop" scene is an endless array of remixed old movie songs with a lot of scantily clad ugly women doing some chicken dance.

The same is true of fashion, culture, art... I strongly believe that it is Pakistan and Pakistani society that has the upheavel to create true art and true culture. In many ways... we- and not the Indians- are destined to create lasting art and contribution to human consciousness. Visit Taxila or Takhtbai... what do you see, except an obsession with this right way.

Once again



or

http://www.express.com.pk/images/NP_LHE/20070731/Sub_Images/11002345 97-2.gif

Zeemax

I wanted to post this news item which reports that the issue of 1500 martyred school children at lal Masjid was brought up in the national assembly. The news report in fact uses the word 'school children"

#80 Posted by Urstruly,

Urstruly, try without the quote marks. What are you trying to post? Gimme the url and lemme see if it works ...

Re: # 79

Yesterday a man called the Queen of Holland a prostitute and a judge their ordered the man to be hanged with his gonads. Times are a changin'

Re: # 78

But that is tentamount to censorship. I wonder whom Chowk Staff is trying to protect with their blasphemy laws.

... but I know if the pic is too big, it'll not be posted in this new chowk format. So try resizing and upload to some image archive and link it from there. flickr.com automatically resizes.

#77 Posted by Urstruly.

Yeah it's the same code. Maybe chowkstaff banned you from posting the columns .... these blokes have become really crafty ... :)

zeemax

Why the hell you and echoboom are still able to post pictures and I can't. Do you still use the code img src="http"? or somethings else.

I have lost interest in Pakistani movies since the time actresses have lost weight. The 275 lb heroin jumping from helicopter to train to boat to rickshaw to motorcycle to... while fighting the forces of evil and at the same time singing and dancing on the tunes of a song based on classical thumri and bhangra dance music used to be a thing to watch. Alas! it is not just the same with skinny 225 lb heroins. Why do all the good things have to come to an end. Why??

#73 Posted by echoboom,

" If we look like we're fcuked walk,like we're fcuked, talk like we're fcked, then are you still saying goray-abba that we're not yet fcuked?"



Dear Abbaa ... I assure we're trying our 'level' best to the best of our ability to prove to you we're fully fcuked !!! Please don't ask us to do MORE!!! We're truly, properly and thoroughly FCUKED!!!

#72 Keep on dreaming, but do update your website man.I told the mullah of my local mosque about your site and he has been sitting there pressing F5 key fevereshly, forgetting his duties i.e baang deyna bhi bhool gya

from another board..belongs here as well!


dawa-i-dil:117

..."its seems from your reply that..this forum has many secular modernist...type people..is this true..."

Please use the word KANJAROON..and if you want to be PC then Ooons would suffice. This word should become a googled word & every site must learn to use it. This is the way to monitor our success.

We are not here to explain or educate anyone. That is for the ones suffering from Intellectualitis..their "Education" is to become JOBBERS, apologists to the goraa maashters..

" Look goray-abbaa, no hands ...& no brains either!"..
" Don't we now almost look walk & talk like you goray-abbaa?"
" If we look like we're fcuked walk,like we're fcuked, talk like we're fcked, then are you still saying goray-abba that we're not yet fcuked?"

"KHUDAA KAY LIYAY: FOR GOD's SAKE COME BACK! in Faiz's words AmmaaN akailee jaag raheeN haiN..(Mother is lonely, Awake all night)

#70 Posted by banneditem,

Thank you for your indulgence ... Mr illegitimate duplicate nick of samar 1982 something ...

So who's the target audience of this film? Is it the gora employer of the two-car garages so he would lay off them for being Muslims? So that they know they're a 'different' kind of Muslim :-)

Re: # 67
Hahaha What else does Echoboom tell you? Talk about bosom buddies and their words (that are echoed) coming out of wrong ends, what else to expect when words come out a hole conveniently located between two valleys.

Here is the link to the movie KHUDA KA LIYA website for readers who have not heard anything about it before:

http://inthenameofgod.com/

YLH do you know if the movie will be coming out in US anytime soon the hype among the community is mounting. It's time to see something meaningful as oppose to regular mindless bollywood movies.

I am really looking forward to watching this movie. From what I have read in the movie reviews and listening to the sounds track it is the movie for the Pakistani society at the right time.

With Shoaib Mansoor at the director's helm one did not expected a typical lollywood masala flick. A thought provoking movie with a distinct Pakistani flavor.

As far as the Indian counterparts are concerned well they argue for the sake of argument after all Indian media these days is not better or worse then Fox news channel when it comes to portraying Pakistan.

#65 Posted by banneditem,

Yeah I know you're a 'dharti-dharmi' (copyright echoboom)!

Manto Bhai,

We had a lovely Pakistan Festival in Trafalgar Sq over the weekend, soooooo packed out, and i was surprised at how well organised it was and how well it went, tho the 'provincial' stalls were dissapointing on whole the whole event was really good and it was organised by the Pak High Commisson in London... am glad Pak is getting better organised and even the films are better, i will def. see this film when it comes to London... its about time Pak and it people found their place, same goes for the movies...

zeemax the 22 arab countries did not include pakistan which tries to act so arab. I feel bad for JI folks that are so in bed with their arbi handlers, and their handlers dissed them, all the "allah hafiz", "ya habibi" and other words that have been mainstreamed all lost. Poor Fanatic Muslims of Pakistan that got left behind by the sheikh arbi.

#63 Posted by banneditem,

No I'm sorry I can't see the point. Which Arab Government is not a US satellite?

#61 if you cant see the point then you are summun, bukmun, AAumyun.

#60 Posted by MantoLives,

I'll certainly see it if you recommend it. It's just that I was vastly disappointed by Rang Dey Basanti as well ...

#52 Posted by banneditem,

just the other day 22 arab countries got together

So? What's your point?

Re: # 58

1. You've got to see this movie.

2. I don't call every "Islam-sympathiser" a Mullah. I am myself an Islam sympathiser to the bone.

www.inthenameofgod.com

#57 Posted by MantoLives,

Well ... that is partly correct, because there's no clergy in Islam. However, if you call every Islamic Scholar, or every Islam sympathizer, a 'Mullah', I would disagree.

A better description of a Mullah is the permanent employee of a mosque whose duty is to deliver Azaan and properly administer the premises. That's all a 'Mullah' is.

Re: # 29

Only Mullahs got nothin' to do with Islam bro.

You must have heard only one song. There are several classical and indeed folk and folk classical tracks as well.

Hi Manto:

After reading your review, I went to see some clips at Youtube but couldn't tell much about the film, except that the music is too "maadern" for my taste. [Pakistanis, it seems, prefer guitar to desi musical instruments].

But I wouldn't be surprised if the film is a better reflection of the Pakistani scene than the popular Bombay films. I have seen a couple of TV serials on Geo and found them much more realistic than the Saas-Bahu genre of Indian TV.

Re. Rang de Basanti, I found the film was okay in the first half but degenerated into a typical off-the-top bollywood masala film. But its theme was quite different from Khuda kay Liye. It was not about Indian identity but a call to Indian youth to emulate their forefathers in fighting the corruput political system in India in the same revolutionary way that their forefathers fought the British rule.

Will look forward to seeing the film.

#51 Posted by tahmed32,

Nope tahmed32 sahib. What I wrote is accurate. The role of a 'Mosque' in Islam is NOT merely a 'temple' of worship. It is the entire seat of Government plus a community center.

Post #52 is a reply to post #50 not post #44. Apologies.

#44 Lovely and thanks; now whenever mosques are blown up I wont feel that bad, since now a place of worship is deemed armory for local militias per zeemax.
Zeemax, just the other day 22 arab countries got together and sent a delegation to Israel to kiss up and make friends. Two points one is that Pakistan (daayum) once again was not invited in the 22 arab country get together, point #2 the 22 countries had to send egyptians and jordanians to Israel, since the other countries dont have diplomatic relations with them.
Ironically speaking foriegn direct investment in Israel is booming and guess what, its the arabs that are funding the FDI injection.

#50 zeemax: you are doing fine until you over-reach yourself. What you have written is gibberish that falls well below Chowk's not-too-high standards. Kindly correct it for logical consistency and historical consistency and re-post.

I shall be back to check later.

#44 Posted by tahmed32,

By any definition, putting weapons in a masjid is a sacrilege.

This is the greatest deception and disinformation that libero-fascists spread.

The Mosque comprises of the ONLY institution in Islam. It is the Parliament, President House, PM House, GHQ, War Office, Crisis Management Center, Supreme Court, State Guest house ... all rolled into one.

#48 Wish you all a good day. Pakistan Zindabad! Chief Justice Paindabad!!

#40 Posted by tahmed32,

You will find one under every rock.

You seem fond of looking under rocks then. :-)

#41 Just to add to your friendly anter with TAhmed32 and others:


seriously - aunty zeemini! There is a difference between Iran and the wahhabi crap the rest of the world is following.

Also note: Iran was more civilised than the arab camel riders before Islam turned up at its door step. Also Iranian islam is more than a few shades different from that of the Wahhabis (and your kind).

But what is interesting is this (and it has been noted on chowk a number of times: the great Islamic Civilisations flourished in (a) Persia (and mesopotamia) (b) India (c) Anatolia (d) Egypt - and NEVER IN THE LAND OF WAHHAB. Why do you think this is?

As an aside: The land of Wahhab only produced back stabbers and guys who broke up your beloved khilafat. Any re

#43 you are confusing peshawar with kabul. in peshawar, the entertainment is limited to watching dvds. (watching dvd's burn, i.e.).

and adamkhana,

You sure seem to have a lot of traitors to your cause in the media. I mean ... how come the biggest anchors and opinion leaders you name i.e. the mommy mommy shahid masoods and hamid mirs (you missed Dr. Amir Liaqat who personally volunteered to blow up rushdi) don't agree with you?

You must be on the run ... better run fast!!!

adam khan: By any definition, putting weapons in a masjid is a sacrilege. The fact that the government has never bothered to inspect masjids for this indicates that it is serious neither about law and order nor about respect for religion. Even more so for the "rocket-men" posing with weapons in places of worship.

Is the movie being shown in Peshawar? They can really use some entertainment other than killing little innocent school girls in soccer stadiums.

#40 I agree, I was just spicing up the exchanges with a few double-etendres ;)

#37 Posted by adamkhan,

Hmmm ... interesting to know that Iran has gone back 1400 years. I thought they were soon going to nuke someones' ass instead of using bows & arrows.

zeemax #38 Maulvis are not exactly scarce in Pakistan. You will find one under every rock.

iron-mask: This is just a friendly exchange of views with zeemax. That is all. :-)

#34 Posted by tahmed32,

Hmmm ... you understand the Molvi mindset really well ... which madrassa did you go to?

tahmed32

Thats not the lal masjid of Islamabad. These goons took over a barelvi masjid and shrine in Mohmand Agency, and named it lal masjid. The irony is that the masjid is still dark grey.

Zeemax ustaaaz!

This is the onslaught of saudi wahabism, and as it is chrome will be traded for chrome. Roti Kapra Makan is not the issue, its the drive for taking things back by 1400 years. Not an easy task, I must say. So while the rocket men slaughter the innocent in Tank, Bannu,Peshawar and Islamabad. Followed by their mommy mommy act through the shahid masoods and hamid mirs, they are sure to get loads of support from Munchie munching tax payers in distant lands. :)

Re: # 34

The little power has always been the prerogative of the mullahs

#33 zeemax: at least they will have only Pakistanis to intimidate in mohmand agency then. That is fine by Musharraf - who is bothered to do anything only if they mess with non-Pakistanis (as in Islamabad, where harassment and ridicule and kidnapping of Pakistani women was OK - and this gun-toting mullahs were taken out in no time when they overstepped themselves and kidnapped Chinese women).

zeemax: Islam is for egalitarianism. Maulvis are for kingship (khilafat).

"Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite" was the slogan in the french revolution used to put an end to a king. Not to put one in place.

And Liberty is a bad word for maulvis. And the only Fraternity the mualvi understands is that of his own little power group within his own little sect.

#31 Posted by tahmed32,

Nope. This one is the 'brand-new' Lal Masjid in Mohmand Agency.

Re: # 31 Tahmed32 why do you want to pull aunty zeemini's panties down!

It can get pretty ugly!

adamkhan #26 Well said.

zeemax: I notice the building behind rocket-man says "Lal Masjid" on the wall. That means rocket-man is quite likely now sitting in Adiala jail.

Re: # 27
aunty zeemini, the problem is that the priorities are inverted...

#28 Posted by MantoLives,

And why not? In my opinion, at the end of the day it is the craving for egalitarianism which Islam champions. :)

Quoting Habib Jalib to justify Mullahs?

#26 Posted by adamkhan,

o bhai jaan, what more do these molvis want?

Rhorra Adam Khana,

"Roti Kapra aur Makaan, Maang Raha hai har Insaan;

Ghar Rehney ko Chhota sa, Mein bhi Musalamaan Hoon Wallah;

Pakistan Ka Matlab Kya - La Ilahah Ill-Allah!

If you do the above three things, all these rockets will "really" become worn out. If not, they will keep coming with fresh chrome :)

Zeemax ustaz!?!?

marginalize and trivilize?? o bhai jaan, what more do these molvis want? they blare five times a day (more than 10 loud speakers per mosque), they get to do their woodstock every year at Raiwind (and now another one in the making near Peshawar), they get separate taps for wadoo and stuff in every public toilet, masjid on every corner, madrassah on every second corner. They get a whole week of negotiations when they abduct the police and kill soldiers, while asma jehangir gets her clothes torn off for just trying to run!!, they have governments in two provinces, they got censorship on tv, press, the street, universities are starved of entertainment activities because the molvis don’t like them, the shahid masoods, the hamid mirs, the aniq ahmeds, the whole damn media is with them, who says these morons are marginalized or trivialized.

THEY SHOULD be but they are NOT!

#18 Posted by adamkhan,

This is precisely the attitude which has resulted in this unfortunate outcome.

You continue to trivialize and marginalize these people, and you will know soon enough whether that rocket is worn-out or perfectly serviceable.

No one is "reading" anything into it.

Consider the comments between myself and Majumdar friendly banter...

It is the significance of the statement itself. Even Adam Khan's favorites in the NWFP assembly used this line when the MMA was trying to pass a bill in NWFP assembly.


What is amazing is how many of you Indians have stood up to be counted in decrying any significance vis a vis Shah.

"#19 Posted by MantoLives on July 31, 2007 4:27:43 am The movie was great even without that line... but something about getting Naseeruddin Shah (who played Gandhi in Hey Ram) to praise Mahomed Ali Jinnah was a brilliant move."

yasser, i hope you understand that naseeruddin shah is a professional actor and from what i have read about him, he does not mix his personal feelings and views with his work. hence don't read too much into the move of nasseeruddin shah praising jinnah. it is all about business, nothing personal.

Yasser, so the film Khuda Ke Liye has become your favorite film overnight – Hollywood inclusive?! Ama yaar, you change your favorites faster than many chowkies change their underwear!

So a couple of Pakistanis stood up on their hind legs and clapped. Big Deal! These people will clap to anything – even Friday sermons.

Yaar, is candidness your new gig? What is this take it or leave it business?! What if they decide to take it? I mean ALL of it? what would you have left? Think about it.

What is this I hear about warts?!! Are there such things as Pakistanis with warts?

And this bit about “complex and rich predicament� – yaar, you have special skills at spinning! One may be falling in a swamp, going under or contending with whatever problems – but you find a bright spot – at least one has this “complex and rich� predicament to be proud of – to hold up high and make faces from across the border…

“We got something you will never have! Na, na, na, na, naaa, naa…!�

I am still scratching my head about this putting of “the best Muslim and Pakistani foot forward� – do Pakistanis have better feet than the rest of the humanity? Is that why they always take extra good care of it – carrying in their mouth all the time?

Someday, when I meet Naseeruddin Shah I will have a good talk with him on what he said about the Jinnah and the Iqbal.

The sell-out! He probably got paid for what he said!

PS: Have you realized that “KKL� is just one letter away from “KKK�?!!

Manto mian,

(but something about getting Naseeruddin Shah to praise Mahomed Ali Jinnah was a brilliant move. )

Don't worry on that count. With even LK Advani and the Gujarat BJP/RSS getting into Jinnah jaap, there is going to be no shortage of MAJ philes. In fact you soon may find more takers for MAJ in India while he wud have been forgotten in Pakistan.

Anyhow to get back to the topic I hope the movie has conveyed the message that Pakistanis had much rather lived for the future of Pakistan rather than the esoteric notion of pan-Islamic solidarity.

Regards

seen movie on last saturday, its a complete indegenous film, for and about pakistan.

I am not going to comment on most of interacts here. I will only say that anyone who has seen the movie- especially the mockery it makes of the CIA-FBI personnel will know how idiotic people like Masadi really are for condemning something based on their own stupid suspicions...

Majumdar,

The movie was great even without that line... but something about getting Naseeruddin Shah (who played Gandhi in Hey Ram) to praise Mahomed Ali Jinnah was a brilliant move.

Zeemax Krachay!

The movie is not for this buffon with the worn out rocket. It’s for the Pakistanis like you and your son i.e. Pakistanis with bags of Munchies!

Re:#16 Posted by majumdar
///"Interesting. I hope all these college graduates first blow up all the murtadoon, munafiqoon, kanjaroon and all such oons-poons in their own country b4 they target us kaffiroons from across the borders."///

Majumdar, you can sleep peacefully..There are enough of these toons in Pakistan and these college dudes have enough meat to target..

Should we restrict MAJ to only a Bharat Ratna or could we have a Maha Super Bharat Ratna specially for him..Considering the yeoman service he has done for India, he sure deserves it...

Maulana Zeemax (RA),

(Anyhow, do send a copy of this film to the gent in the photo. It's never too late to acquire a taste for movies. )

I don't have a copy, Manto mian has and I am sure he won't mind sending him a copy. If it can change the guys mind, the director would have achieved a noble feat.

(the guy who blew up the PM's motorcade was a Bachelor's of Commerce from M.A.O College, Lahore.)

Interesting. I hope all these college graduates first blow up all the murtadoon, munafiqoon, kanjaroon and all such oons-poons in their own country b4 they target us kaffiroons from across the borders. Thank God for MAJ (pbuh).

Bharat Ratna MAJ amar rahein.

Regards

good article

majumdar,

Mr. Majumdar, the guy who blew up the PM's motorcade was a Bachelor's of Commerce from M.A.O College, Lahore.

Anyhow, do send a copy of this film to the gent in the photo. It's never too late to acquire a taste for movies.

Maulana Zeemax (RA)

Sorry. I thought that the pictures you had posted were from MWFP/POK/B'stan/Afghanistan etc. But I am sure even Iraq has fundoo religious schools, the Iraqis may not call them madarsas, which is a different matter.

Never mind if that fellow had acquired a taste for movies it is unlikely that he wud have taken up a gun.

Regards

#11 Posted by majumdar,

I didn't know there were many madrasas in Iraq, are there? How is it then people there are walking around with these things?

Unless of-course I'm wrong and Iraq is full of madrassas.

Maulana Zeemax (RA),

If that poor had a normal upbringing and learnt to appreciate normal things like watching a movie, reading comics etc. rather than waste his time in some madarsa, he wudn't have become the suicide bomber that he seems to have become.

Regards

Dear Yasser

Plan to watch this movie asap:) can't pass up anything by Shoaib Mansoor in any case. Your comments on Rang De Basanti are what I would like to address here. Rang De Basanti is a movie for the far more cynical youth of India than for the very idealistic youth of Pakistan. India is going through a completely different cultural phase whereas Pakistan is not. Soul searching and emotional discontent is 'normal' ways to experience life among Paksitanis as though angst is our copyright. Soul searching is not common among pragmatic people in India, where survival is a far more difficult job than in Pakistan. I sometimes wonder if emotional wiring of the person reared on the Urdu language is different:). In terms of soul searching and sheer effort to udnerstand themselves, the 80s in India were a closer decade to what Pakistan is going through in 2007. A journalist in Pakistan can write about political things, literary things and get a living. In India, nobody will read him. Philosophical themes are not common among the Indian youth--it is cultural. Peopel who dance to express themselves have no mental time to feel sad. It also interests me that pantheism as a spiritual practice does not require the global understanding of who 'we' are that Islam does. For example, you can choose what to worship how to worship where to worship etc., without any confusion on the 'right' way. Whereas for the past several hundred years, the debate on the right way to practice Islam has kept people of Islam full of worry, angst and confusion as to what being good is all about. It sounds like Shoaib Mansoor has exposed that terrible doubt about what it means to be Muslim.

Manto, thanks for the review,

I have not seen the movie, but have heard the sound track/songs. And they have all the elements I dislike a lot.

And this is the horrible nasal intonation. South asian lanuguages are beautiful, but when the northerners, specifically punjabis use URDU, Hindi etc there is a horrid and awful nasal tone/twang which kills the words/lyrics etc.

The lrics are very good. The music to the lyrics leaves a lot to be desired.

My crib about the sound tracks - waiting for the DVD!

Has this guy seen the movie yet? Please send him a courtesy copy and maybe he will lay down that awful thing and pick up a bag of munchies:

Echo "otherwise, it is business as usual."

I have not seen that movie yet so I will not comment on the specifics but given its source, i.e. the CIAs media outpost in Pakistan, GEO, it will be USDI (US department of Inferiors)(which includes all of the non-caucasian world according to the US elite) stamped, funded and approved.

Ras, is this movie coming to theatre in Cali? e.g. Naz8?

echoboom, I am sure Shoaib Mansoor is a kanjroon otherwise why would a Mullachoon or conservatoon act in a movie?:)

echoboom chacha your oon poon reminds me of this Punjabi drama I saw on youtube few days ago.

This character called (say) Sheehda Mistry has just come back from Dubai and speaking ThaiTh punjabi by adding "oon" behind every word...he is trying to impress the other mirasis on the stage with his Arabic accent and language skills.
After few minutes one other bhanD that actually knows Arabic starts cursing him generously in Arabic...as he kept delivering Arabic dialogs other characters on the stage started lining up in a "saff"...Tariq Teddy lifts his hands as in dua and kneels on the floor while addressing to the Arabic cursing bhanD "yaar, ikk Naani jaan lai vi paRh dey..wichari baRhi changi hundi si".
:)

Manto mian,

Haven't seen the movie and unlikely to unless I can get hold of a DVD in Delhi (unlikely again) so can't speak much about the movie.

(two men who did the greatest service to Islam in Pakistan, Mahomed Ali Jinnah and Allama Iqbal)

So this was what attracted you to a movie, mention of ur hero MAJ (pbuh). But how come u have not taken exception to the fact that MAJ has been depicted as a crusader for Islam and not Muslims/Pakistanis irrespective of faith?

(the scene which once again made a Muslim out of me.)

So what were u b4 this? Qadiani.

Regards

YLH

We are waiting quite impatiently for this film

here in California. But can one movie undo 30 years

of damage? Maybe we can chalk this effort as a new

beginning?

Saw the Pakistani Parade/Mela Program from London on GEO.

It was wonderful to watch such a colorful and vibrant

community.

Khuda Ke Liyay is mohim ko jaari rakhyay.....

Ras

I will wait to hear the reaction from those who are not secularoon & do not eschew or espouse secularoonism.

Masood Ash'ar of Jang has also praised this movie in the same laudatory hyperbole..and his past as a muslim is not very cherished either.

Could you provide some info on Shoaib Mansoor which indicates that he is not a secularoon/Liberaloon?

otherwise, it is business as usual.

The argument, and that too in a court of law, that Jinnah & Iqbal were beardless to garner sympathy for KanjarR behaviour is really very hysterically laughable. Some KanjarRoon also try to convince themselves that their IQ is equal to Ghalib's because they too are into rUNdee baazi & sharaab.

Are the movie-houses full of westoxicated types..pretending to be foreignish in Chapaati-Land?