Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

clifton

Blacks do not have job reservations, reserved seats in congress, senate, ministries... dalits do... black governors are rare... Dalits CMs are not... mayawait may even end up being the PM... a black president is still far away [ no - obama has no chance]

abusing a dalit is a felony, buying dalit property without govt permission is an offence...

The result is less pronounced because of the fact the pie itself has been so small oweing to commiesm and socialism... lack of efficient law enforcement has blunted the effort to completely eliminate abuses against the dalits... third worldism has blunted the entire effort... but neverthless...

you pakis simply cannot imagine the level of official and societal effort that has been made since independence... going forward - it has accelerated further, now that more resources and technology is there....

zee

your exclusion of "dalits" is completely disingenous... the entire society at every level has made enromus effort to life the dalits and other backward communities and tribes out of their historical predicament... from job reservations to reservation in political representation... progres made by the traditionally depressed sections of hinud society is tremendous - considering the point where they started from... they are not where they should be yet - but nevertheless...

I do not usuallly trumpet for indian progress - but the numbers are remarkable - but since independence, the equivalent of entire europe out of colonial-era poverty... of course - the fast population growth has made sure that still more poor are there... last 15 years of growht reduced poverty cutting across class lines...

dont try to ape to the liberaloon... do not be envious of the neigbor's success... :)

mohar its good to see that all sides of the debate believe the debate should be honest.
So honestly then , you are saying social justice for dalits in india is the same as blacks in america? economic justice for them is the same? Religious justice is the same?
Or are you going to admit that this is really the most shocking way any country has treated a whole 1/6th of its population in the modern day and age?

BTW i think your judiciary has made all the right noises regarding dalit rights , the conctitution has been duly ammended ...now its just a question of indian society to change.

zee

US is not monolithic - ask the blacks, they will tell you.... in china - it's even worse - villagers cannot even travel to their own cities without permits... there has been 84000 riots last year - yes, 84 thousand...

Mutltiple economic realities exist in every country... the income disparity in china I think worse than that of india...

You are once again displaying traits of the liberaloon you hate - lying and fudging... that's a shame...

Kaal:

I think you may be right ... Gandhi used religious symbols to get the unwashed masses politicized .... in the process he put off the upper class Muslims. Masses, at least in India, have always been politicized through religious symbols and myths ... the communists tried otherwise and failed .... the maoists, though, in Andhra, Orissa, Chattisgarh etc. liberally use religious symbols and myths. Of course, the oons do not like it. But who cares .. the ultimate goal of politicization is democracy and not necessarily constitution framing. The hindutva hordes of the early 90s do not all vote for the BJP today.

But the BIGGEST or most IMPORTANT question plaguing us today is : Where is hamidm2?

laddu you should really be called chicken little. JI has already got its ass handed to it in karachi on a platter they dont even whimper too loudly now, . It never wins against PPP in sindh or PML in punjab , ANP is reemerging in the frontier (six parties coalesced last month).... there are many islamists in pakistan but most of them would never vote MMA. Apparently the only person scared of the political might of the MMA is you.
I am not in politics and dont want to be. Even the harshest islamic state i could forsee ever coming to pakistan would be ala zia ulhaq lines ....HE NEVER REPEALED THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION OF MINORITIES.

JI is part of the MMA that is an alliance composed of 4 powerful religious parties: Jamaat Islami (JI), Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (F), Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (S), and Jamiat Ulema-e-Pakistan (N).

Most of them desire the pre 1857 fantasy of enslaved hindu workers and living off zimmi-daris.

They are part of this pan Islamic terror movement that is now emerging out of PAkistan.
They are the ones who are hiding Osama.
They have the support of millions.
Your ba ba black sheep education cannot stop them from taking over Pakistan now!!!
Echo ji is right!!

laddu are you aware of how many illiterates are in pakistan? lemme give you a hint ...its more than 4.5 million.

You know what Allama Iqbal said about mullahs like these ? he called them vultures. Islamists like echo/zee are not in the MMA/IJI my friend.

Re: # 289

Clifton bi ji,

I think you better ask echoji if JI and Maulana Qazi Ahmed are revered or not??
In 1997 Qazi Sahib launched a nationwide campaign to expand the party membership. His open membership campaign brought 4.5 million new members to the Jamaat.

4.5 million??!!!!!!!!!


Come on, how can you call them 'jahil'.??

laddu, that Imam is perfect example of TNT. he too like some muslim leaders of the past suggests Hindus and Muslims can never live together.

laddu the same party also decreed immunization a crime. These people are not reverred as islamists they are popularly called jahil even by the most observant literate muslims.
Remind me again how many times has this leader "of mine" has been elected to head of state? And how many times has a pakistani head of state ever said that? Even Zia never changed the constitution in re. to minority rights ....he did go after muslim rights pretty bad though. Do you know that nonmuslims can legally buy etoh in paksitan and even did so under Zia ?
Do you know that the islamist party of turkey is democratically elected and also secular?
I really think you have a lot of confusion regarding pakistan islam minoritiy rights and the islamist school of thought.

The clash of civilizations began right from beginning, the very concepts propounded by Islam were against rest of world. So says the ex-muslim lady in this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0

clifton bi ji,

let me quote from your popoular leader from Pakistan Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khanin of Jamaat-e-Islamia.

He is really EXPLICIT in his statement that he wants Hindus as slaves of Pakistanis. Sure, after all that is what Hadiths want do to do with dhimmi hindus.

"
JAMAT WILL BRING SLAVERY BACK TO PAKISTAN Arabians own slaves. Though Allah says that the slaves should be treated in a nice manner, he did not advocate the abolition of slavery. If slavery is bad as considered in today's world, Allah certainly would have said that slavery is wrong. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) also said that the slaves should be treated in a good manner and the slaves should be released often. But if there is no slavery, how can anyone release slaves? Hence the re-introduction of slavery in Pakistan is one of the future plans of the Jamaat.
ALL CAPTURED HINDUS WILL BE MADE SLAVES
All the captured Hindu Indians and Srilankans will be made slaves to work for Pakistani Muslims. Every God-abiding Pakistani Muslim will get slaves once we conquer India. All the slaves who embrace Islam will be set free. Slavery is Islamic. Jamaat is the only political party, which does not voice any opposition to the slavery in Pakistan. We went around all over Arabia. We were surprised to know that there are some Hindus in Yemen. These ancient Yemeni Hindus are not Indians. In my opinion, these Hindus are traders from India in the ancient times. I was also surprised to know that they have a Shiva temple in Yemen. Qazi was very unhappy over this. When he talked to the Yemen leaders, he broached this subject. But the Yemeni leaders refused Qazi's suggestion of forced conversion of these people to Islam. I don't know why they refused. I think it may be due to the large population of Hindus from India who work in Yemen and Arabia. He disliked the current leadership of Arabia for this reason.
In his opinion, Arabia should not allow any non-Muslim into the holy lands of Arabia. Arabia should be 100% pure. A large number of Hindus in Arabia is corrupting the Arabians. Though they live as contractors, they have the potential to corrupt the minds of the Arabians. "

this is from "Jamhooria Islamia", a monthly Baluchi magazine published from Panj-gar, published an interview with Maulana Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khanin Feb 1999, a confidant of and adviser to the Amir of leading Pakistani Islamic party, Jamaat-e-Islami, Maulana Qazi Ahmed, which was conducted by Jalil Amir.

Re: # 281

Hey echo ji,

1857 was the day of liberation of the hindu idolators.

That is the year when hindu idolators no longer remained the dhimmis.
Shariat was out and British common law took over.

Hindus and muslims were now at level.

The doors of modern education was opened to hindus.

and muslims went back into their shell of depression , and are till day fantasizing about those days when they had hundreds of hindu idolators working free for them as slaves in their house holds and lands.

Thanks to Britishers hindu idolators could start throwing away the humiliating status of dhimmis that was confereed on them officially for a 1000 years.

Thanks to Britishers!!

echodada, well one thing I have learned to my misery is that language is the source of most of our common miseries. English seems singularly ill-equipped to capture our (yours and mine) key concepts, ideas, and dreams, even :(

Laddu you have surpassed yourself..."It is just a matter of time before idol breaking and kafir beheading would become an EXPLICIT law in Pakistan" ....so you admit you have to look into a crystal ball to find evidence of your contention that pakistani muslim majority are out to make dhimmis and crush idols :) ....because none exists today.