60 Years of American DogHood

60 Years of American DogHood + 15 years of Saudi Doghood

#52

Such questions are only answered by history. It is certain that some Pakistanis are benefiting from the economic and infrastrucure improvements. It is clear that the arts and culture are undergoing a revival not seen since 1947. It is also clear that some people in Pakistan are resisting the change and the confrontation is becoming violent. But who is confronting whom is unclear and it is also unclear if there is a purpose to the revival of religion. We can hazard a few guesstimates based on facts:
1. In the last few years bomb blasts have increased.
2. In the last few years Madrassah's and religious sentiment has increased

It can be drawn from this that attempts to modernize Pakistan with the help of America while America invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan has offended many people in Pakistan, especially those whom the state abandoned after 9/11. It is obvious that Musharraf's persuasive tactics and modernization of Madrassah tactics have failed because a/there are enough sympathizers to fundamentalist causes to make the job very hard and b/ he has been high handed with liberal elements such as corrupt political parties c/ he has vacillated when push came to shove wrt to religion. d/he has given too much favor to the army

One thing without shadow of doubt can be said; his handling of foreign policy and negotiations with foreign states has been excellent.

Madani mian, I'm sorry if my choice of language offends you but sometimes these a-holes that want to keep minds enslaved need to shown their real image using words and those words my friend cannot be pretty because these sobs have a very ugly soul...hope you understand

The raving lunatic Okhla is lying about everything (except chowk censoring my articles) in the below reproduced BS diatribe, in fact it is quite pathetic that idiots like him have to invent bs to discredit my quite well established, well argued posts....like Madani sahib said these bastar** are just jealous because they cannot approach my posts except by inventing lies. Btw nobody deported me from the US or fired me from any US university, I came back to Pakistan of my own volition, away from the land of cheerful morons like okhla, slaves yet happy in their enslavement....Now go eff off okhla....

Madani mian, the best parts about Gandhi you have reproduced yourself, he personified an image of defiance that existed in the nation at the time, a definace to slavery which lackeys of the British (pardon me HP) like the Jinnah man didn't. That was the democratic tradition that took hold in india while the Jinnah man's "Lackey" tradition took hold in Pakistan, unfortunately...

Masadi you creep !!!! (Utterly & Completely Respected)

So you are still trying to spread your bullshyte notions that have been rejected by the rest of the civilized world!!!!

Will you never learn ???

Don't you remember the hiding you got on faithfreedom.org( at the hands of Ali) ???

Don't you remember the disciplinary meetings in the US University just before they deported you in spite of your pleadings???

Don't you remember your abject surrender and begging/whining tone in which you implored for a second chance to be allowed to stay in the US????

Don't you remember the unceremonious manner in which you were comprehensively rejected and kicked out of the US??

Don't you remember the impish grin on the face of the US immigration (INS) official as you were dragged kicking and screaming to the airplane????

Don't you remember the "evil" students in your Pakistani college who made open mockery of the ideas you tried to teach them???

Don't you remember the management committee meeting which unanimously declared you "unfit" to train young Pakistani students???

Don't you remember how you were thrown out of that college and the security staff alerted to never let you enter again ???

Don't you remember how all your pleadings for "outstanding claims" were met with derisive laughter???

Don't you remember how the Chowk staff has consistently refused to publish your bullshyte articles???

Don't you remember how even lulu.com would not accept your "works" any more???

And now, you have found a one-man audience in the intelligent MADani.

Perhaps now you have reached the peak of your career.

Rejoice in your success.....

Re: # 80 Thanks for your note.
It is really impossible to "reform" mental slaves showing slavish servitude to former and new colonial masters. But it is good of people like you who to intensive work to write about this slavery. Also I liked what you wrote about a person who is in love with nuclear bombs and is mad enough to be eager to kill people in hundreds of thousands of people and you wrote nicely about poverty killing people.I feel better you feel little moderating in writing tone will be better. I am almost 60 years old have not watched TV for decades and that give time to think of what I read. TV has problem its visual and does not leave too much time to think or read. I like reading as there is my participation gives impetus to think and imagination.
I like you are not "stunned" by big names like jinnah or Gandhi and you can look very critically beyond hipe and see what is under vaneer. YLH has confused me lot about Mr. Gandhi. What I liked of him he was not ashamed of being a native person and was little man but brave to defy their "social western millue".He was asked about western ideas about justice he said sarcastically they are good ideas. He gave damned to so called polished dress or copying wetern man as a ideal. He used dhoti unashamedly and was at ease with people. I feel one of thing people secetely admired him of going his way, not apeing. YLH has analysed him throughly I will like to have your observations. For you are unconventional and free thinker not loaded with "files of information". You can give some time your feeling , some time there is lot of information given by Historian like manto but without wisdom. Some times I feel compiling too much information is not good as there are places called achives what we need is wisdom when somebody writes.
Have good morning.

Madani sahib thank you for your persistent support. I am extremely happy that you found the book of use, makes the effort worthwhile, however I'd be more careful in how you summarize it,,, but as the book ends so should we all begin with our Declarations of Independence....As for the worshippers of the West that try to legitimize US crimes in our region, people like tahmed and FerozK, the people of this nation will take care of them soon enough...

Re: # 78 Ajun Indfia "HAD" democracy for last 60 years.
But now it is american controlled country. Now India has sign treaty with USA and now Americans will decide about Indian Nukes and energy policy. Mr. Nehru would have never lost freedom so fast and without protest. It sad both India and Pakistan are domestic affairs of usa and their dogs as writer said. Kindly read a book by Masadi life and death under USA domination. Well come to new empire. Its miserable day when both lost freedom and became colonies of USA. Have good sleep now do not worry all deshis as we have no responsibilities as we have america as ruler. Have good sleep as evening is winding up , all slaves and happy slaves.
White english people went back to their white country and we browns ,now "Ghulam" of almighty usa. Sleep is better as then we do not think. Now god of India pakistan is not anybody special but USA president.

Dayumn pakis...India has been a democracy for more than 60 years but even they haven't mastered the art of getting a confirmed result before elections...you're one up on India..

I’ll be elected before Oct 15 ‘at any cost’: Musharraf

* President seeks PML support
* Admits meeting with Benazir but says no deal made

FAISALABAD: President General Pervez Musharraf said here on Thursday that he would be re-elected from the current assemblies and in uniform “at any cost” before October 15, Online reports.

Gen Musharraf flew here to rally support for his re-election from legislators belonging to the ruling Pakistan Muslim League (PML) from Faisalabad and Sargoadha divisions. He told them that presidential elections would be held between September 15 and October 15.

#75
Add to that Sonia, Rajiv went to Oxford ..Rahul Gandhi went to Harvard

mir aimal kansi who opened fire outside the CIA headquarters in langley.

Just skimmed the article & spotted this "gem" about Kutti-Baizameer.
"...Maybe the Harvard degree........."
_________________________________________________________ __
The Kutti-Baizameer "attended" Harvard; She "attended" or "went-to" Oxford...

Isn't is amazing that the ba Ba Blacksheep need training to read even newspapers.

She & many Ooons like her have never graduateed..Does not mean that a Phoodbhoy type DR.Ooon would comeout better than an average Madressa walla.

Indira Gandhi was also "went-to" ( shanti-Niketan ) & So were her sons..they were "went-tos" as well.

JUst like our Ba Ba Blacksheep schools these institutions are used to produce toata-mainaas from slave lands. These instituitions are definitely high-calibre but for those who already have free-minds & are intellectual-rebels & willing to kick a buillion-dolaars in the teeth for a rare moment with a learned person.

Well-done Salim:
I think Jinnah was a kutta look-alike, but definitely not a Kuttaa..Maybe a Wolf.

Please separate Kuttaas from Non-Kuttas in your list. It does not seem in good manners that Non-Kuttaas should be seated or even be nearabouts where kuttaas are found.

AhmediNedjad, Nasser, Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto...Certainly non-Kuttaas.

thanks.

Saima,
I agree with the designation of "kutta" for leaders who themselves follow the leaders of other nations and thus cause their citizens to become slaves by proxy.

Let's evaluate some leaders:

Jinnah = Kutta of British
All Paki Presidents & PMs through Yahya Khan = Kuttas of British and Americans
Bezamir Bhutni = Kutti of Americans
Nawaz Sharif = a regular kutta of Americans (minor exception was his discovery of temporary spheres during the nuke tests)
Mushy = More and more a devout and personal Kutta of Dubya.

Definitely not Canine - almost feline:

ZAB = Corrupt, ambitious, but NOT a kutta

Other Muslim countries:

Nasser = Not a Kutta
Sadman Houston = A kutta but nobody's personal one.
Ahmadinijad & other Eye Ranian leaders = stupid, ineffective, but never kuttas.
Ataturk = Far from being a kutta

Maliki = Kutta
Mobarak = Kutta
Soodi Arabs = Kuttas (including Faisal)
Erdogan = Definitely NOT a kutta

He was being called a Kuttaa & worse even back in November 2001
& the whole world was watching/listening.

Just see #9 below.

and please call him Kuttaa , not American-dog, which he considers an honour being in english. His tail wags in excitement. It would also be worthwhile www.americandog.com, the american dog association site. An advertisement glorifying his kutta-name runs there.

Remember if you love USA & are loyal to it..simply because you are an American Citizen. If you consider yourself American first & muslim second then you are definitely an American-Kuttaa. ON CHOWK now there is only one American-Kuttaa left; he also happens to be a from Cantonment-kennels.
_________________________________________________________
How Pakistan Can Become A Modern State...
By Khan_Jee

Posted on: Wednesday, 11/21/2001



Pakistan can become a modern atheist state if General Parvez Musharraf may take the following actions:

1. Musharraf Government must recognize Israeli state without further delay, it will increase image of General Musharraf as non-believer of religion like Turk Govt.

2. Political leader of India Mr. BAL THAKREY must pay visit to Military academies of the country, and should be requested to give lecture on failure of two-nation theory. The statements of Bal Thakrey are almost same as of General Musharraf?s cabinet ministers are giving to press.

3. Immediately remove slogans of Army adopted by General Zia, irritating words like Eiman, Taqva and Jihad. Modern slogans may be adopted.

4. Names of famous fundamentalist Muslim warriors may be removed from textbooks like Ali, Khalid, Tariq, Osama, Qasim, Tipu, and Salahuddin. Also peoples must be stopped to naming their children?s.

5. All the mosques must be demolished and in every city only one mosque should be allowed, Army Chief of Pakistan must approve khutba.

6. All fundamentalists and Pro-Islam journalists may be hanged or sent out of country. These are the actual hurdles against Pak Army thoughts of modernization. Benazir Bhutto, Altaf Hosain, Wali Khan and Air Marshall Asgher Khan are the real devotees of Pak army cause to over through Islam from Pakistan.

7. Name of the country like Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to be a terrorist name; it must be changed with some modern name like Non Believer Pakistan, Atheist Pakistan or Anti religion Pakistan. Name Pakistan also seems to be an old fashioned name, General Musharraf and other Army Generals must request Mir Shakil ur Rehman of Jang group of Newspapers to form a committee of modern philosophers like Irshad Ahmad Haqqani, Husain Haqqani and Maleeha Lodhi to suggest a modern name.

8. Present cabinet is an excellent cabinet like Abdul Sattar, Moeen Haider, Shokuit Aziz and all others these may be put on contract for another ten years as ministers.

9. Peoples which are shouting against Government must be dealt with Iron hands, it was very bad show when International media like BBC, CNN, ABC and CBC shows Muslims saying "General Musharraf Son of Bitch" General Musharraf Kutta (Dog) or "Dog of Bush -- General Musharraf", also showing kicking effigy of General Musharraf and with legs and spitting on it.

10. Govt. is spending dollars to purchase moulvees, it is a good idea, but beware Tahir ul Qadri can change its faithfulness; he previously received money from Nawaz Shariff and Abbaji and then ran away.

11. The secret of keeping strong Government is to reduce two-three and four star Generals immediately. Any one can be fundamentalist and if Baba George Bush will become angry then he will not forgive loans, may be stopped aid, which can put us in trouble. However as per reports of Jang Group of Newspapers all the Generals recently promoted are Anti Islam, they are moderate, watch Mujra (Songs) and will be very helpful in atheist country as Ata Turk prepared.

12. All literature containing material which reminds that this country was made in Allah's name should be banned. People must forget that the foundations of this country was based on Islam.

13. Secularism must be promoted at all costs. The large amount of budget spent on the Defence expenditure must be spent on secular teachings.

These are only some of the steps by which we can attain the path to the glory.

Allah Hi Hafiz

Salim#70:

Yes, I think that was the name. The guy was a scion of a very influential Baloch clan.

#56 DM Sahib {"Contrast this with the ease with which the Nawaz Sharif govt. facilitated in the American kidnapping from Balochistan of a fugitive (whose name I forget) wanted by Americans for the first WTC attack.
"}

DM Sahib,
I believe the name was Kansi.

#65 Tahmed Sahib,
Sir, I place the survival of Pakistan and especially the survival of Pakistanis as paramount in my considerations - surpassing all individual ideals of democracy, faith, loyalty, and politics.

I was willing to put up with a benign dictator, an undemocratic military regime, and even the stupid dog and pony show put on by the CJ and his supporters - all for the preservation of Pakistani lives and existence of the nation.

Mushy's deliberate and arrogant act of murdering hundreds of Lal Masjid inmates runs smack against my perception of preserving Paki blood. I reject his excuses and am further disappointed by having a military dictator doing the bidding of foreign masters. He is drowning and I am prepared to throw him an iron raft.

giani_240,
Thank you for the warm welcome. :)

stop begging...it's pathetic..and it doesn't matter..the answer is still no...

Pakistan urges Kashmir concession

Pakistani Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri has said that a solution to Kashmir will not be ideal for any of the concerned parties.

In an interview with the BBC's HARDtalk programme, Mr Kasuri said that "reciprocal concessions" would have to be made by all sides.

Mr Kasuri was speaking to the programme to coincide with the 60th anniversary of India and Pakistan's independence.

India and Pakistan have fought two wars over Kashmir in the past 60 years.

"Ultimately a solution to Kashmir will be one that is not the best perceived either by a majority of Indians, a majority of Pakistanis or a majority of Kashmiris," he said.

"That is the short answer. It will be the best under the circumstances. It will not be ideal for either Pakistan, India or Kashmir and if it is not that, there'll be no solution to Kashmir.

"There has to be reciprocal concessions, there has to be reciprocal movement. There will be no unilateral concessions by Pakistan."

Faruk: I dont know if it will be different or not. But certainly that is no reason for Musharraf to continue his unelected rule over Pakistan as he would like to.

#52 Salim: May 12 was a defining moment of the current freedom struggle in Pakistan. The day the eyes of millions of Pakistanis were opened to the extent Musharraf was prepared to got to cling to power.

Lal Masjid was another example of Musharraf's seeking to cling to power by letting maulvis intimidate and humiliate ordinary Pakistanis in Islamabad, no doubt.

But dont tell me not to mention May 12 without mentioning lal masjid as if I am trying to hide something.

#61 When I said that Pakistani people had shown the world that they cannot be ignored, it was based on Bush finally doing what he should have done when the crisis started - echoing the stand of the chief justice concerning the next election.

So dont repeat this standard chowk Indian bs about Pakistan being a non-entity to me. A nation of 160 million people can be considered non-existent only in the dreams of partition-deniers.

Saima,

You have constructed the whole article on wrong premise.
There is rampant anti-Americanism in Pakistan. There is no dispute about it but that to me is a temporary phase. I also don’t believe that the anti Americanism is based on religious sentiments. They are there but they are not the sole motivating force.

If the religious elements had enough popular support, they would have made hay with the Lal Masjid affair but they failed to pull any public support and are now relying on Nawaz Sharif to provide them political cover.

Your assessment lacks any substance and is not supported by any intellectual investigation. Pakistan as a whole surely has moved slightly to the right but that does not mean that the shift is complete. Musharaf’s policy of not allowing the moderate leaders to come back to Pakistan has contributed to the Pakistan’s shift to the right. His attempt was to capture the political landscape that was vacant due to the absence of these leaders. But he lacked the political will to decisively move towards filing the vacuum. He made lots of compromises to appease the mullahs and finally secured his election and the constitutional amendment to secure his future.

Can you expect a non political, non civilian to lead the democratic surge in Pakistan? Let me explain. Rarely, would you see in the political history of the world that a dictator or an authoritarian regime moved towards liberalism and moderation. The armies all over the world lean heavily on conservatism and mostly have no sympathy with the political process. Relying on the army and its Chief to change the nature of the political discourse in a country is asking a little too much. It is not possible. You may quote a few instances from the history but if you look closely all those ended up being on the conservative side of the spectrum.

Pinning your hopes on an army general to change the things in Pakistan is not a bright idea. As long as there was no one available to challenge him, whatever little moderation Pakistani got from him, was acceptable but it did not mean that we handover the country to him for an indefinite period on a faint hope that he will continue to support moderation.

You have yourself pointed out the danger of the rise of fundamentalism, if Benazir comes to power. The reason for that, as I have explained elsewhere also, is that Benazir and the Army cannot and will not function as a unit. The Army may bury the hatchet temporarily under the US pressure but it will attempt to find ways to undermine her.

There is a strong link between the fundamentalism in Pakistan and the Pakistan army. That link for the time being appears weakened but it is not severed.

The army will encourage the fundamentalists to move against her. army’s control of the media in Pakistan, -notwithstanding what media is doing now- is indisputable. All major newspapers and the owners of the cable networks would immediately be in the army’s corner, if the army so desires. You don’t fully understand how much control the army has over institutions in Pakistan.

The Supreme Court issue is an aberration at this time. It is not a norm and no one should take the current situation as the ultimate victory of the judiciary in Pakistan.

So, imo, it will be the Pakistan army that will bring the fundamentalism back in to the mainstream to harass and eventually dispose off Benazir. I also think that like the Pak army, the Pakistani intelligentsia which is mostly Punjabi, has reservations about Benazir and that to me is one reason that she still is not able to cut a deal with the army despite the US backing her all the way.

I think the US should rethink its strategy of supporting Benazir. The US will need a larger alliance that should include Nawaz Sharif and all the secular and Nationalist from the smaller provinces such as the Baloch, PONAM and ANP.

Who's the bitch in heat now?


Indo-US N-deal
Nuclear test by India will kill the deal: America

The MEA refutes statement by the US and says that testing is India’s prerogative, reports Nilova Roy Chaudhury

#50 Posted by tahmed32

[Faruk #41 I dont think it matters who comes to power, as long as it is through free and fair elections. Pakistanis have already achieved a lot by shedding blood and through personal courage and shown the world they cannot be ignored. ]

I'm sorry to break this to you, but people of the world wouldn't give two hoots abour pakiland. For those who are aware of it's existence, Pakiland is a joke ruled by a tinpot dictator.

canine conundrum cont'd...

down doggies..no bone for you...now scratch each other's backs...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/16/washington/16policy.html?_r=1& hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

August 16, 2007
U.S. Prods Musharraf to Share Power
By MARK MAZZETTI

This article was reported by Mark Mazzetti, Helene Cooper and Carlotta Gall, and written by Mr. Mazzetti.

WASHINGTON, Aug. 15 — The Bush administration, struggling to find a way to keep Gen. Pervez Musharraf in power amid a deepening political crisis in Pakistan, is quietly prodding him to share authority with a longtime rival as a way of broadening his base, according to American and Pakistani officials.

General Musharraf, an important ally since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, has lost so much domestic support in recent months that American officials have gotten behind the idea that an alliance with Benazir Bhutto, a former prime minister, would be his best chance of remaining president.

The two met in an unannounced session in Abu Dhabi on July 27, but neither has publicly admitted to the meeting. Since then, many in Pakistan have heard the rumors and voiced their doubts about the workability and political wisdom of such a deal, and American officials concede that the proposed power-sharing could come with problems as well as benefits.

But after weeks of unrest in Pakistan, the American officials say a power-sharing agreement that might install Ms. Bhutto as prime minister could help defuse a confrontation in which General Musharraf has already flirted with invoking emergency powers. Administration officials have said they fear that General Musharraf could eventually be toppled and replaced by a leader who might be less reliable as a guardian of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal and as an ally against terrorism.

Even if General Musharraf were to insist on remaining as the country’s military leader, American officials say that sharing power could bring a more democratic spirit to Pakistan, which has been a quasi-military dictatorship since 1999, when General Musharraf seized power and ousted Ms. Bhutto’s successor, Nawaz Sharif.

Even in supporting a power-sharing agreement, the American officials say they worried that any diminution of General Musharraf’s power could only complicate American counterterrorism efforts at a time when Al Qaeda is believed to be rebuilding in Pakistan’s tribal areas. They also say that Ms. Bhutto’s return could fuel Pakistani nationalism and kindle new calls for Pakistan to distance itself from Washington.

Ms. Bhutto has been holding talks in recent weeks with senior Bush administration officials, including Zalmay Khalilzad, the United States ambassador to the United Nations, with whom she met privately late last week. Administration officials have taken pains not to endorse a power-sharing agreement publicly, so as not to seem as if the United States is trying to influence Pakistani politics.

But Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice did discuss the idea of a power-sharing arrangement when she called General Musharraf last week at 2 a.m. in Pakistan to warn him not to declare emergency powers, American and Pakistani officials said.

Ms. Bhutto and General Musharraf have a personal history going back many years. He was her chief of military operations when she was prime minister, yet he has said repeatedly that she would not be allowed to return before the coming elections. In fact, one of the biggest obstacles to any possible deal is whether Ms. Bhutto would demand that General Musharraf relinquish his post as army chief of staff before agreeing to a power-sharing deal. Ms. Bhutto has said in the past that she would demand this, but there have been suggestions in Pakistan in recent days that in order to salvage a deal, she may be willing to concede that point.

Several Bush administration officials agreed to talk about the American role in the discussions but refused to speak for the record because of the delicacy of the talks.

American officials say that the complexity of Pakistani politics makes it difficult to predict what shape a political deal could take. But a first step could be a decision by General Musharraf to allow open parliamentary elections next month, because Ms. Bhutto’s party now appears poised to win the largest share of the vote.

A victory by her party could pave the way for Ms. Bhutto to become prime minister, but she would probably need General Musharraf’s support to overcome further obstacles, including a law prohibiting former prime ministers from returning to that office. In turn, Ms. Bhutto’s support could be crucial to helping General Musharraf to victory in subsequent presidential elections that would allow him to stay in his current job.

Both leaders have faced a backlash within their parties as they explained the details to members. Members of the governing party, the Pakistan Muslim League, which backs General Musharraf, are furious at the possibility that, after attacking Ms. Bhutto for nearly eight years, the general is considering dropping court actions against her and offer her a share in power.

In an interview with The New York Times on Monday, Ms. Bhutto that she was aware that an alliance with the now-weakened General Musharraf could hurt her politically.

“We want to avoid a situation where we are seen as bailing out an unpopular military dictatorship,” said Ms. Bhutto, who has been living in London and Dubai. She said the pace of the talks between General Musharraf and her Pakistan People’s Party was too slow, with him making promises that he has not kept.

“When we are doing this for a level playing field, when we’re doing this for a higher cause, which is the restoration of the people’s right to elect a government of their choice, that should translate into tangible measures,” Ms. Bhutto said. “And if it doesn’t translate into tangible measures, then it can be misinterpreted by the people at large.”

The daughter of a Pakistani prime minister who was executed by the military, Ms. Bhutto captivated the Muslim world when she became the first woman to serve as prime minister of an Islamic country. Her government was dismissed in 1996 amid accusations of corruption, and she has lived in exile since 1999 to avoid prosecution, although she denies wrongdoing.

State Department officials have told General Musharraf for months that he needed to broaden his political base and become less beholden to the Islamic groups that he has courted to shore up his power in the western part of the country. Asked about American support for a power-sharing deal, Sean McCormack, the State Department spokesman, said on Tuesday: “We have met with all parties, and have expressed our support for open and fair elections. We have encouraged the parties to strengthen the moderate center of Pakistani politics in order to better deal with the problems of extremism.”

Teresita C. Schaffer, a Pakistan expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said that American officials saw a deal between General Musharraf and Ms. Bhutto “as a potential lifeline and one that would get him less deeply involved with the religious parties.”

Ms. Schaffer said she was skeptical that any alliance between the political heavyweights was manageable over the long term. In Pakistan, the general view is that General Musharraf needs the deal to stay in power, that Ms. Bhutto needs it to quash corruption cases against her in the international courts and that there is nothing in it for the people, said Talat Massood, a retired general and political analyst.

The Bush administration has had its own stormy relationship with General Musharraf. He sided with the United States against the Taliban after the Sept. 11 attacks, and has continued to provide what American intelligence officials say has been crucial support to counterterrorism efforts. But American officials have also become frustrated at what they see as passivity in efforts to root out Qaeda operatives in Pakistan.

Mark Mazzetti and Helene Cooper reported from Washington, and Carlotta Gall from Islamabad, Pakistan.

test

A poorly written article. Could not figure till the 3rd read what the author is trying to say - I am still confused. Is she pro-democracy, pro-dictatorship or what. I figured that she does not like Benazir nothing much else.

Editor, should you or your staff ignore reputations and focus on the quality of articles.

Salim mian, good to see back among the interactors

canine conundrum explained...

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007/08/16/story_1 6-8-2007_pg3_2

VIEW: When will the nonsense end? —Kamran Shafi

Thursday, August 16, 2007 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer Friendly Version

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VIEW: When will the nonsense end? —Kamran Shafi

India celebrates its Independence Day by holding a joint session of parliament; we spend ours debating whether a failed dictator should be given another five years in the Presidency. How direr, if I may coin a word, can straits get?


This is not all. The Commando has said that Dubya ‘called him over the phone and assured him of respect for Pakistan’s sovereignty’. The Commando is then quoted verbatim: “I am fully confident and very sure (200%!) that there will be no action across the border. If there is an action it will be conducted by the Pakistani forces and we will do it ourselves.” I ask you!

How many times must American and NATO forces cross our borders and raid villages within Pakistan’s territory and kill and kidnap people; how many times must American and NATO fighter aircraft and drones fire missiles on Pakistani targets killing Pakistani nationals (and foreigners, of course, but within Pakistani territory) before we acknowledge that, sadly, America is Amreeka Bahadur and we are we? That NATO is NATO and we are we? And that we can bloody well do nothing about it!

This is the Commando talking please note, who, when the Americans air-raided Damadola, killing women and children but no ‘asset’ (or whatever they call Al Qaeda operatives these days) of any note, that it was the Pakistan Army that conducted the raid. (I ask you!).

The above three bright lights of the junta are not alone in talking nonsense: in order of importance for she does more important work, the FO spokeswoman and the Private Banker have also waxed lyrical. The spokesperson said words to the effect that ‘Pakistan on Monday dismissed as “speculative” reports that the United States has information about the location of its nuclear assets’. And that Condoleezza Rice’s ‘recent telephone call to President Pervez Musharraf amid rumours of emergency rule was not a direct call but routed through Pakistan’s embassy in Washington’.

Saima Begum:

The charge made in the Karachi graffiti is wrong - Musharraf is not the Amreekan Kutta that many believe him to be. I think that he has handled Americans better than politicians would have.

When the famous call from Colin Powell came, a Nawaz or a Benazir would have done the same; in any case even then Powell would have called Musharraf, the army chief rather than whosoever were the Prime Minister.

However, while seeming to surrender, Musharraf did not fully cooperate with the US and continued to do what he thought was in the Pakistani interest. Unlike Americans, he differentiated among four categories of jihadis - sectarian sunni, al qaida, kashmir oriented and taleban. He wanted to move against sectarian and did. He also thought that al qaida was a liability and he went against them too, except for the big fish, which after all was and is the golden goose. He kept the Kashmiri jihadis intact and even helped the released Indian prisoners Maulana Masood Azhar and Omar Sheikh (?) set up new Jaish-e-Mohammad. He went after them only after attempts on his life by these people persuaded him that there was no difference between a friendly and hostile jihadi. As for taleban, he never went after them until very recently and indeed entered into agreement with the local taleban to be free to carry on their activity as long as they do not hurt Pakistani troops. He has been forced to act against them only after that agreement broke down. But even now, Pakistani draft in the joint jirga called for including "good" taleban in the Afghan establishment.

And when it came to protecting Pak assets, he has held his ground. He did not hand over Omar Sheikh to the Americans or to the FBI for interrogation despite America's repeated requests; ditto for Abdul Qadeer Khan. Contrast this with the ease with which the Nawaz Sharif govt. facilitated in the American kidnapping from Balochistan of a fugitive (whose name I forget) wanted by Americans for the first WTC attack.

You say:

"The only feasible alternative for America is to use India to fight America’s war, and invade Pakistan in case Musharraf or Benazir are unable to curb the rising tide of militant fundamentalism in the event of a hostile takeover."

You must think that Indians are bigger idiots than they are.

Re: tahmed#50
“I dont think it matters who comes to power, as long as it is through free and fair elections. “

I appreciate your optimism, but if the choice in the elections is the usual suspects how will the new stint of democracy be any different than the past.

Regards,

Faruk

This was very poorly written - some editing wudve helped w/ the language but the incoherence cud 1ly be fixed w/ a complete rewrite.
Prolly no1 picked up on this coz prolly no1 has bothered 2 read it..

#32 Tahmed32 {"The facts of May 12 are well known to all. So dont try to start arguing over them. Just remember what I wrote - dont let your ethnic affiliations cloud your common sense. Dont betray the rest of Pakistan at this critical time in its history by supporting a dictator and the murderers of May 12 simply because of ethnic affiliations"}

Tahmed Sahib,
Sir, you keep talking about the murders of May 12. How about the murders of Lal Masjid inmates - girls, boys, children, women, and men? Please be consistent. The May 12 victims went looking for a gunfight and found one. The Lal Masjid victims were surrounded, invaded, and then murdered in an "encounter" with the 6th or 7th mightiest army in the world. :(

{"militancy is a wonderful distraction from the more difficult task of living as an ordinary person.

Musharraf, ironically is a victim of his own success. Will he finally give up reforming Pakistan? The job is thankless and death is but a heartbeat away for all hardworking dogs."}

Saima,
Another excellent and timely article. You have really considered this canine matter from all perspectives - American, fundo jihadi, "liberal" secularist, military, and even an average Abdul and Shano Pakistani one.

Thank you for presenting Mushy as a loyal and hardworking canine - the real questions remain concerning the object of his loyalty and who benefits from his "hard" work?

Re: # 45

zeemax:

I totally agree with you about this "perception" thing. The main perpetrators of creating this so-called perception is the naPak fouj, which is the biggest yateem khana in Pakistan (as a matter of fact in the world) and their co-hort a westernized corrupt ruling class who see their own political and economic survival in supporting their neo-colonial masters; just as their predecessors saw their survival in supporting the british colonialism.

It is a cancerous mindset which would not go away without a thorough "overhaul" of the society - Iran had to do it, China had to do it. India is lucky that they got people like Nehru who were determined to get rid of the colonial baggage once and for all.

I do not find it just a coincident that whenever pakistan (read Pakistan's corrupt military elite and class) is a "frontline" ally of USA, Pakistan has suffered dearly. During 1965 Pakistan was "frontline" ally of US in their fight againt communism under a corrupt westernized military dictatorship and could barely saved itself from loosing Lahore and Sialkot to India. Again in 1971, Pak was a US ally under a corrupt westernized alcoholic adulterer dictator, and we lost half the country to Indian aggression. In 1984 Pakistan was "frontline" ally of US in their war against Russians under a maglomaniac military dictator and we lost Siachin to Indian aggression. Now the corrupt westernized class and napak fouj are once again American frontline allies under a vicious bloodthirsty military dicator and two provinces have become no man's land for naPak fouj. In general no naPak fouji would dare go outside of fortified cantonment in his uniform all over Pakistan. All military vehicles have been painted neutral and assigned civilian number plates. This US backed Military dictator uses napalm on school children while the westernized corrupt class chearleads the massacres. This is a pretty serious heap of shitt.

Pakistan needs to win its independence. The war of independence, the revolution that should have happened right after 14 August 1947, has only begun now. We are about 60 years too late for the overhaul.

Faruk #41 I dont think it matters who comes to power, as long as it is through free and fair elections. Pakistanis have already achieved a lot by shedding blood and through personal courage and shown the world they cannot be ignored. Character is destiny, and character shown by so many Pakistanis in the previous months augurs well for the future.

the objective was the same as it has always been with muslims. Why us? and Who did this to us?

zeemax #44 What is indeed so heartening is the manner in which Pakistanis have united on the fundamental issue, which is the rule of law.

And the Chief Justice who remained steadfast in his duty to protect the basic rights and the rule of law in Pakistan, despite attempts at bullying by Musharraf and his intelligence generals, has set a shining example that will no doubt be remembered centuries from now (and I dont think this is an exaggeration) in Pakistan history. Let us pray God gives the chief justice the strength he needs, and to all other Pakistanis, in the crucial months ahead.

Sis Saima, an interesting write-up! But what was your objective in writing it and what would you like people to do about the situation?

Democracy and pakistan are like oil and water. A nation created on the basis of a religin that calls for subservience needs a strong armed Idol (irony indeed). the sooner the pakistanis get over these dreams of having democracy, the sooner everything gets back to normal

#43 Posted by Urstruly,

I showed my disappointment in #15. It is a huge betrayal of sovereignty of one's own country.

#29 Posted by tahmed32

#28 vanguard: It is so nice to see your post. At this critical time, it is important for all Pakistanis - regardless of ethnicity or political differences - to stand together as one to get rid of military dictatorship once and for all.

Thanks for this post. This is where you get my affections and where we stand firmly hand in hand, despite our differences on EVERYTHING else!

Saima

I am totally dispointed in your tacit approval of this vicious and bloodthirsty hound dog who has no mercy for even school children.

I always thought that you were better than that.

??? ?? ?

re: tahmed32#29
Any thoughts on who/what will replace the army. Why will this experience be different from the past.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: vanguard #28
Could MQM have survived without its goons ? If you think the answer is yes please elaborate.


Regards,

Faruk

INDIA HAAS ITS OWN PRO AMERICAN & ANTI AMERICAN DOGGEDLY DIVIDED

Concerted move to avert nuke showdown
PM knocks on Buddha door
OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT


Singh, Bhattacharjee
Calcutta, Aug. 14: The Prime Minister, locked in a standoff with the Left over the nuclear deal, called Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee this morning and requested the Bengal chief minister to meet him in Delhi.

Bhattacharjee, who will be at the CPM politburo conference in the capital on August 17 and 18, will meet Manmohan Singh on Friday.

“The Prime Minister contacted me this morning. He wanted to talk to me,” the chief minister told a Forward Bloc gathering that was mourning the death of party leader and former agriculture minister Kamal Guha.

“I told him (Singh) he already knew my party’s position on the nuclear deal: (that) we had discussed the issue among ourselves and would hold further discussions at the politburo meeting. I told him that since you want me to meet you, I would do that during my visit (to Delhi) for the politburo meeting.”

Among all CPM leaders, Bhattacharjee’s views on economic issues are believed to be the closest to the Prime Minister’s and the two are said to share a rapport.

But on the subject of the nuclear deal, an issue concerning mainly defence and foreign policy, the chief minister joined his party’s tirade against America.

“My party and I, too, believe that the prevailing national situation demands a special role for the Left,” Bhattacharjee said.

“We have told the UPA government not to surrender to pressure from the US imperialists and forge a strategic alliance with them.”

Some Left Front leaders believe that the Prime Minister is also keen on getting Jyoti Basu’s help in resolving the stalemate, and has already entrusted his chief trouble-shooter, foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee, to court the CPM patriarch.

Basu was recently reported to have suggested that the Left would stage a “walkout” if there was a vote in Parliament on the deal, saving the government as well as itself a lot of embarrassment.

CPM general secretary Prakash Karat, however, has said that nothing has been decided and asserted that the Congress should be prepared to face “the political consequences” of the nuclear agreement.

With sections in both the Congress and the Left keen to avoid a showdown, Mukherjee has been in touch with Left leaders such as Sitaram Yechury, hoping to make good use of the time till the politburo meeting ends on Saturday.

arjun: haha

If pointing out power hungry oppurtunists who have only their own interests at heart is betraying pakistan than so be it.

arjun: as resident hindutva representative, thanks for illustrating what i am trying to get across to Che Guevara by by ridiculing me for calling for support to the democracy movement in Pakistan.

With geniuses like you as enemies, Pakistan does not need any friends.

#33 in other words what i am saying is: Dont betray the rest of Pakistan by denouncing its democracy movement and supporting a dictator and the killers of May 12 on account of ethnic affiliations.

#33 Posted by CheGuevara on August 15, 2007 7:29:08 am

prophetboy's rear is glued to the saddle of his high horse...the high horse died, killed by the stench of the hypocrisy and denial...yet prophetboy remains solidly attached to the dead horses saddle...

So in other words you have no arguments and are sticking to your high faluting moralizing bs as usual.

#30 The facts of May 12 are well known to all. So dont try to start arguing over them. Just remember what I wrote - dont let your ethnic affiliations cloud your common sense. Dont betray the rest of Pakistan at this critical time in its history by supporting a dictator and the murderers of May 12 simply because of ethnic affiliations.

HAHAHA...the world already knew this...how will the pakis spin this into their usual "we pakis are victims" shtick?

hey prophet boy...lookie here...the land of the pure was completely behind the talibunnies...including paki army soldiers fighting for the taliban...


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/index.htm

Washi ngton D.C., August 14, 2007 - A collection of newly-declassified documents published today detail U.S. concern over Pakistan's relationship with the Taliban during the seven-year period leading up to 9-11. This new release comes just days after Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, acknowledged that, "There is no doubt Afghan militants are supported from Pakistan soil." While Musharraf admitted the Taliban were being sheltered in the lawless frontier border regions, the declassified U.S. documents released today clearly illustrate that the Taliban was directly funded, armed and advised by Islamabad itself.

Obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, the documents reflect U.S. apprehension about Islamabad's longstanding provision of direct aid and military support to the Taliban, including the use of Pakistani troops to train and fight alongside the Taliban inside Afghanistan. [Doc 17] The records released today represent the most complete and comprehensive collection of declassified documentation to date on Pakistan's aid programs to the Taliban, illustrating Islamabad's firm commitment to a Taliban victory in Afghanistan. [Doc 34].

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/index.htm#17

From [Excised] to DIA Washington D.C., "IIR [Excised] Pakistan Involvement in Afghanistan," November 7, 1996, Confidential, 2 pp. [Excised]

Similar to the October 22, 1996 Intelligence Information Report (IIR), this IIR reiterates how "Pakistan's ISI is heavily involved in Afghanistan," but also details different roles various ISI officers play in Afghanistan. Stating that Pakistan uses sizable numbers of its Pashtun-based Frontier Corps in Taliban-run operations in Afghanistan, the document clarifies that, "these Frontier Corps elements are utilized in command and control; training; and when necessary - combat. Elements of Pakistan's regular army force are not used because the army is predominantly Punjabi, who have different features as compared to the Pashtun and other Afghan tribes."

According to the document, Pakistan's Frontier Corps provide some of the combat training in Kandahar or Herat provided to Pakistani madrassa students that come to Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban. The parents of these students apparently know nothing regarding their child's military involvement with the Taliban "until their bodies are brought back to Pakistan."

Are you denying that these "peaceful demonstrators" were armed to the teeth?

And you think supporting a corrupt chief justice surrounded by corrupt political leaders is gonna help Pakistan?

Are you also deluded enough to think that these people have any intention of taking on the military's role in politics?

If the Chief Justice gave a shit about democracy, why did he not declare musharrafs regime to be illegal before he was in danger of losing his job?

#28 vanguard: It is so nice to see your post. At this critical time, it is important for all Pakistanis - regardless of ethnicity or political differences - to stand together as one to get rid of military dictatorship once and for all.

Re: # 13

IB though I usually consider your arguments well constructed, however, this time I am going to disagree with you. Either you are Kunwar Khalid Yunus who wrote the same lines today or you are totally blind to whats happening on the ground in Karachi or at least choose to be blind.

Being a so called Karachi mohajir myself, I have been seen MQMs terrorists up close as I was their neighbour. I have seen them carrying out tortures, collecting extortions and they still do that.

Last Eid, you wont believe this, I have seen trucks loaded with sacrificial animal hides moving in a convoy within Karachi preceeded and followed by police mobiles so that MQM ghundas dont steal that.

Other parties' hands are not clean either but stop putting MQM in white light.

Mr. Madani: Post #26 is for you too. Please dont betray Pakistan at this critical time. Show your support for the first truly people's movement in Pakistan, and dont support a dictator and dont support Altaf who is a man who has blood on his hands.

#24 cheguevara: you can call them hooligans if that makes you happy. doesnt change what i wrote in #23 and #22. You are being extremely foolish in supporting a dictator simply because he belongs to your ethnic community. Musharraf is in it for himself, rest assured.
If you care about Pakistan, if you care about the very "urdu-speaking" community you feel so strongly about, you should support the democracy movement led by the chief justice. Dont betray the rest of Pakistan at its critical time in its history by supporting a dictator and defaming a truly national movement.

Re: # 12
Please dont mix two "altafs". MQM cvhief has not taken even 5rupees, before general took over army was anti MQM and still is but due to prsident they have moderated. I fully agree there "totally important factor of Ethinicity". I agree with your analysis of voters of KARACHI.

Tahmed32, ethnic affiliations have nothing to do with the fact that the "demonstrators" were hooligans armed to the teeth and anything but peaceful.

#21 che guevara: what happened with the cjp's demonstrations in the rest of pakistan - they were peaceful. No one fired any weapons. So why do you refuse to acknowledge that it is stupid, self-defeating ethnic affiliations that cause you to refuse to acknowledge the obvious?

zeemax #15 Thanks for summarizing the article. Unless the author choses to discuss her article, I am not going to waste time reading it. The heading tells me where this article is headed anyway.

While you and I may not be in full agreement on Pakistan's relations with the US, I fully agree that Pakistan is not anyone's dog. Musharraf may like to think of himself as one, but not the country he flatters himself into thinking he is worthy of being called a "leader" of.

"Peaceful demonstrators"

LOL

IB: You are merely trying to defend the MQM for the same reason that MQM killed peaceful demonstrators against Musharraf on May 12 - namely, your ethnic affiliations, which are clearly stronger than any moral scruples (How can you claim MQM changed its views after May 12 with a straight face?), in total disregard to the fact that you are supporting a dictatorship and opposing the democratic movement and calls for the rule of law in Pakistan!!

Do you really think such mindless ethnic affiliations are even in the interests of the very community you feel so strongly attached to? Do you think the rest of Pakistan are a bunch of fools who dont see all of the above?

actually pakiland is worse than a dog...you'd go to jail in the US if you treated your dog like the US has treated the land of the pure...

they don’t believe that Muslims carried out the attacks on the two towers


Oh you poor pakis you...

Notice how the paki liberals/moderates(cough cough) can go through 20 thousand words without a single mention of the root cause of all this...Pakiland's policy of using islamic fundamentalism as a strategic tool...

If you're bombing your people, it's your own damn fault...nobody forced you to radicalize your own population to produce jihadis to fight your wars...you made a conscious decision. now deal with the consequences...

Saima Shah, I would like to request the wheeravouts of such writing in Karachi?
Cheers

What MQM did on 12th May was wrong ! - and its only MQM politicians who have to face there voters everyday - and because of the pressure from the MQM voters ; MQM changed her stance regarding CJ Issue and the killings on 12th of May. MQM is a genuine political party unlike others - with lot of problems. I personally think MQM without Altaf Hussain would be better - but how could a party kick out the vary person who made the party and sacrified!
What do you guys think of other political parties like ANP and PPP who came out with guns on 12th as well.
As a law-enforcement officer myself I could point out that Sorah Goth, North Nazimabad Phatan Areas are loaded with Guns - and is a refuge for terrorists and bandits. Whenever Govt. tried to come donw hard on them - ANP comes and rioting starts - same with Sindi Goaths in Karachi - all illegal.

The central thesis of the author appears to be: "... problem is that not much of Pakistan will remain if we shoot all the American Dogs."

This is an uninformed perception. First, with Pakistan exports to USA of $3.8 billion in 2006/7 of the total $ 18 billion, FDI of $ 913 million out of $ 7 billion, and direct aid of approx $ 1 billion, Pakistan is nowhere near economically dependant on USA.

Next, Pakistan survived for ten years during 90s with the Pressler amendment which effectively blacklisted Pakistan for all economic and military assistance, but despite all it came out with massive infrastructural improvement as well as a nuclear deterrent in the same period.

As it stands now, Pakistan has no military threat from USA (even though the successor to Bush may be even more stupid) other than a few bombing sorties over FATA. It can neither spare land forces committed in Afghanistan/Iraq/S. Korea, nor can it fight on the ground in FATA where Pakistan's Frontier Constabulary recruited from the same region cannot. On the other hand, any such attempt will get rid of any remaining vestiges of pro-west opinions in the country and spread the civil war to cities.

What else? Can USA attack Pakistan's nuke facilities? Probably it can. But that will be an existential threat and whatever capability remains will be used against it's forces and allies within reach.

It disappoints me that the author has such a low opinion of Pakistan and its inhabitants. Pakistan was not a pushover even 10 years ago when it tested the nuke in the face of tremendous carrot/stick pressures from the US, much less now. It was only Musharraf who agreed with the author in 2001 and rented out the Pakistan Army to the US to be used as mercenaries against Pakistanis on false pretexts fed to the nation.

No one was going to send Pakistan to the stone age.

H-Ikram: Well said. Bush didnt tell Musharraf to have MQM come to the street with guns on May 12 to kill innocent Pakistanis. Mush and MQM did this on their own. Bush isnt telling Mush to have unfree and unfair elections that Mush shamelessly continues to insist in effect in having. In fact Bush told him the opposite.

Ms. Saima Shah's article, which points away from the real culprit and foolishly tries to paint America as the enemy is precisely what genuine Pakistan-haters (see Jayp post below who is wetting his lungi with delight) from India would like to see.

At my response number 12 , I doubted by leader but since light into came - I would like to review and paste the following note:

Those recipients who received the cash amounts were (surprisingly not mentioned in Mr Cowasjee’s column) the MQM’s nemesis Jamaat-i-Islami’s Amir (Rs5 million), and Maulana Salahuddin of Takbir’s fame (Rs0.3 million), Mr Altaf Hussain Qureshi (a red-haired veteran journalist) and Mr Mustafa Sadiq (Rs0.5 million).

Perhaps it was the second time that Mr Altaf Hussain Qureshi’s name was, by design, engineered in the infamous list of 32 politicians etc. (on the pay roll of the ISI) as Mr Altaf Hussain (MQM). Why, it is deliberate?

How was the name of Mr Altaf Hussain Qureshi tampered with to read Mr Altaf Hussain? And how was the sum of Rs0.5 million enhanced to Rs20 million? The answers slouch with Mr Cowasjee’s conscience.

Mushraff was once a loved leader by All Pakistan between 1999-2002 but mind you there was a group who has always been active since Mushraff took over - this group belongs to PML(N) for reasons which is quite understandable (Mushraff finished Nawaz Sharif's rule) .
When I stressed on ethinicity factor this time - I making a observation from the ground realities I see in Punjab where atleast 2/3 of educated ( the uneducated Punjabis - still thinks to this day that all Urdu Speakers aka Mohajirs are actually Hindus and they should be thankful
that 'we' gave them land to put there tents on ) are opposed to Mushraff not because they believe
in democracy but because they are against Mushraff's ethinic origin and his so-called links with MQM.
When you link Altaf Hussain with politics on body bags , language and ethnicity - you should remember
why Altaf Hussain ( with all this evil , cartoonish acts ) became Altaf Hussain?
He became a leader because he exploited (what anyother politician would have done) the grievences of
Urdu Speaking and Memon Speaking Community - and addressed the vary issues directly related to them ; Although a Imran Khan fan because of his politics and principled stand - his standing with the likes of MMA and his statements against MQM has put him off from a lot of people I know. We from here find his statements and of Nawaz Sharif's ethinically motivated.

which were as follows:

a) Quota System
b) Urdu/Memon Speakers were ignored at both Fed./ Sind level
c) Re-investment on Karachi from Karachi's Fund was very little
d) There was a need for a Urdu/Memon Speaking Community Political Party in Pakistan

All said and done - Altaf Hussain and MQM are not angels ( they are politicians ) a bit more violent then others but thats because of religious parties which are if not equally then more violent. People vote for MQM now atleast because theres no other option in Karachi/Hyderabad -because if we does not vote for MQM ( which actually is present at grass root level) Jamat-e-Isalmi and Maulana Noorani Son's Owais Party (MMA) and now a new factor Sunni Tehrek will win seats - no one in Khi/Hyd want religious hypocrites running Sind/Khi/Hyd.

I stand firm that Punjabis are ethinically motivated - and because of them - there is a reaction in other coummunities in Pakistan - Mohajirs/Phatans/Sindis/Balochis.

President Mushraff with all the pitfalls would never compromise on national security - thats for sure.
Yes, CJ , 12th May Issues have hurt the popularity but atleast hes a honest man. As far as democracy is concerned - what kind of democracy do we want ? most of the politicians including the person I vote ( Altaf Hussain ) was paid Rs.30 million in 1991 by ISI , Nawaz Shairf , javed Hashmi and all of anti-PPP camp.
I am not saying this is a excuse for not installing democracy back but with the same politicians?
is it worth it? our Judicial Activism Doctrine is doing a much better job then Politicians.

For Saima, mushy is the reformer ans she does not want benazir to come back. But my dear pakistanis, she has a destiny, she is the daughter of pakistan, she ha to complete what her father started, and that is her destiny.

Her father delivered the bomb, she has to complete the second part of her fathers prophetic promise to pakistanis, to feed them grass.
Her father dismembered pakistan, now she has to liquidate it.

Let benazir come back, that is her destiny, that is the destiny of pakistan.

Th great Bhutto is what is needed now, to co,plete what her father said before he was killed. " pakistan will have the bomb and will eat grass". The bomb is the biggest liability, the americans are going to bomb pakistan to clear out teh bomb,

then leave it for indians to clean up the mess. It was done to a majority of pakistanis in 1971, it can be done again.

Thank you Saima,

"America, however, cannot take the risk of letting Pakistan become the next Iran if Ms Bhutto is ousted by the Fundamentalist Militants (a possibility), therefore Pakistan does not even have the luxury of Fundamentalism. The only feasible alternative for America is to use India to fight America’s war, and invade Pakistan in case Musharraf or Benazir are unable to curb the rising tide of militant fundamentalism in the event of a hostile takeover."

That is precisely what I had been telling, pakistan has to be eliminated, there will be expanded afghanistan, India and Sindh as a new country.

If more people like you start talking about it as the only option, it will happen. This should have happened a few years ago if it were not for that stupid collin powell, Osama woul;d not have been in pakistan, if pakistan also were bombed out

IB I am impressed by your observation … had Musharraf been judged by ethnicity he would have not gone, he would have been a dead man long time back.
I am a Punjabi myself and I can ensure you that it is Punjabis that see least of all things in ethnic prism. Unfortunately, it is people like Altaf who do business on dead bodies, language and ethnicity.
Tell me who was ZAB? I think not a Punjabi.
Who was Jinnan, not a Punjabi, I think? Who is BB? Who is Liaqat Ali Khan? Except Nawaz Sharif when was a Punjabi at the helm of affairs? Did Punjab come out for a Punjabi CJ?
Most important of all, did Punjab not distribute mithai on the arriva of Mush?
The simple fact is that Mush is taking the country for ride now, Punjabis non-Punjabis alike. He is interested only and only his perpetuation. He would sell his (yours and my) daughter, his (yours and my) mother for that no matter they are Mohajir or Punjabi. Remember yours and my sons and brothers, he has already been selling in open market.

Could Saima Shah kindly give me details of the wall chawking so I could get it erased!

Pres.Musharaff is the best thing happened to Pakistan.
Heres a man who is commited towards Pakistan - comes from a normal family.
I am a Urdu Speaking Man myself - and my visits to Lahore and interior Punjab left me with the impression that Punjabis view Mushraff in the light of ethinicity and nothing else .
Here I would like to add that - its high time that after re-election as president of Pakistan - Mushraff should gave up the uniform.

Read "As far as the common man goes, the condition of the average Pakistani has not improved during the tenure of Musharraf"

as "As far as the common man goes, the condition of the average Pakistani has not improved during the tenure of Musharraf even though billions of dollars of US bribes have been flowing in"

As far as the common man goes, the condition of the average Pakistani has not improved during the tenure of Musharraf. Inflation is high, which affects the poorest of the poor and profits and profit repatriation of the foreign multinationals who have bought out Pakistan at pennies to the dollar has increased 800% or more. The dynamic set in place by being America's "bitch" set in place by Musharraf has also ensured that the fringe Jihadist groups become mainstream, which will harm the people both security wise as well as materially in the coming years. The so-called "reforms" are all window dressing. Justifying holding a whole country hostage and enslaved to foreign desires is not something that can ever reform this country or lead to its democratic institutions evolving. The military needs to be kept out of all politics or it will seek inroads into the political directorate time and again (doing America's bidding) ensuring the kind of civilian politics of the "stop gap" and "corrupt" sort that we see in Pakistan. Very disappointing article, that tries to legitimize dictatorship in the guise of Western "reform", when all this does is weaken political institutions in the country. The "dog" has outlived his usefulness for the Americans and needs to go, the Americans themselves will take care of that, even under a bad civilian leadership, people have greater representation than in a dictatorship of the Musharraf sort, and whenever people have representation, conscious people like the people of Pakistan, made conscious due to circumstance, then we have hope for something better in the long run...

Hi,

At the height of Chief Justice crisis, I submitted an article to chowk captioned

Gang-rape of Pakistan

Chowk editors have apparently opted not to publish it.

For my fellow chowkies and for the sake of posterity (ta ke sanad rahe that I too did raise my voice) I am posting a blog link to it. It is a letter that sent to all corps commanders of Pak army.

http://gangrapeofpakistan.blogspot.com/

Sorry, very sorry, that comments are not very article specific.

Regards

MMI

Re: # 1 reader should read book by masadi.name of book:Life and death under usa domination.
He explains good dynamics what is going here and around world. He is powerful as he is telling truth, its harsh truth and it is different way of looking at things and how country was managed for by usa god fathe