The Transformation of the Punjabi Man: Pashtunization or Militarization?

GT thats not a terrible question to ask. People allign themselves along lines that work. If the state provides basic infrastructure and justice to its people then noone would be looking for street justice which is essentially what ethnic and sectarian violence is all about.
If the world was capable of functioning in a just and even handed manner there would be no need for the protective mechanisms of nations borders and armies.

"racial hatred and self-glorification"...yes absoultely that exists in every community in pakistan. MQM is not unique just the most blood thirsty.

Dear tahmed sahib:

One more minor point: "mqm is the worst enemy of the very people who follow it - only they are too stupid to understand that."

What if I say: "nationalism is an enemy of the very people who follow it - only they are too stupid to understand that."

You perhaps may disagree with the latter statement for various reasons. But please do apply the same reasons to the former statement. Does it make sense? .... even slightly?

p.s. I shall not bug you guys more along this line .... especially with manto, stuka and others missing.

Fascination of one's race and hatred of others isn't a new idea in the history of mankind. MQM managed to make its clientel feel like a pack of victims in perpetual danger of extinction should they not start hating and killing others to expand their living space. I once again find the analysis of Daniel Berk worth quoting where in the end he writes about the greatest militaristic nation/race of all times, the Spartans who were even doing eugenics to raise fitter humans -- not to improve their own quality of life but to destroy their enemies. While killing other folks Spartans must also've thought about morality the way some MQM speakers are doing here. This immoral thinking is an indespensible outcome of racial hatred and self-glorification.

tahmed sahib:

You say "Racism (or Communalism) creates frictions in society .....". I see nothing wrong with "frictions" per se :-). Consider the following statement - "Nationalism creates frictions in society .....". Define "society" here as the set of people in India and Pakistan. You see where I am going?

IB to dost mitter: "with all the fights between us - we stand united for the betterment of Pakistan"

After writing post after post berating other ethnic groups in Pakistan the way you have been, you are in no position to say "we stand united for the betterment of Pakistan". With friends like you, Pakistan does not need enemies!!

GT #109 you ask "what is wrong with racism?...Morality gaya tel lene ko."

You idol-breaker you!! :-) Here is my answer to your question:

"Morally right" is the same as "Socially right" and not some mere "feel good" stuff. Racism (or Communalism) creates frictions in society that are then exploited by individuals with political ambitions, while appreciation of diversity brings out the best in everyone.

mqm is the worst enemy of the very people who follow it - only they are too stupid to understand that.

GT #109 you ask "what is wrong with racism?...Morality gaya tel lene ko."

You idol-breaker you!! :-) Here is my answer to your question:

"Morally right" is the same as "Socially right" and not some mere "feel good" stuff. Racism (or Communalism) creates frictions in society that are then exploited by individuals with political ambitions, while appreciation of diversity brings out the best in everyone.

mqm is the worst enemy of the very people who follow it - only they are too stupid to understand that.

zee i stand by my definition of "able" as evidence by literacy and higher education thats the reason there was over representation in govt jobs no? I didnt say it was a genetic trait !!! though you might call it cultural.

The affirmative action thing is more interesting but there are differences btw quotas and AA.
Firstly AA is the sign of an advantaged majority making redress for a huge historical wrong...its important because a 76% majority (whites in US) can afford a little affirmative action because the absolute diff. it makes them is small based on numbers alone. The majority is prevented from being overrepresented that way even when they are more able.

Its not called AA when you prevent a minority from being over-represented to protect a majority.

Even in the states AA is a stupid idea there should be economic incentives not DNA incentives. I would favor the same sort of economic underprivilleged reverse discrimination in pakistan but the quota system is a blood line protection which is why its stupid.

What is wrong with racism? And how is it fundamentally different from nationalism? I see no difference. There are groups and these groups have some kind of identification - black, white, muslim, hindu, west, east, pakistan, india etc. etc. One identifies with a group to derive economic, social and political power. The very act of identifying with a group or a set of groups induces a separation from other groups. After that it is all a question of gathering more resources for members of the group. The process at times leads to violence between different sets of groups.

A group which is not able to protect itself will simply dissapear. The ability to be, and the usage of, violence (if only as signals) is essential for the group's survival. Arguements based on morality is just a cover up. At most morality, in this context, is a peace time fighting weapon. Nothing more.

If MQM stops its gunda gardi or stops aligning themselves with dictators of various shades then it will be wiped off and wiped off violently. The economic and social power that the supporters derive because of the MQM will also vanish. New alignments and identification will form. For better or worse? It is for individuals to decide.

As far as racism is concerned, I do not see it to be different from nationalism, tribalism etc. Morality gaya tel lene ko.

kaura#163:

What did Ranjit Singh do to be called a "bewaqoof" and a "dangar"? All I can think of his inability to produce a competent heir.

And Punjabis, at least in Indian Punjab, are doing quite well towards their language. If I were to hazard a guess, the amount of Punjabi literature published in India these days in one month probably exceeds the entire Punjabi literature produced since the time of the second guru who formally introduced the Punjabi script.

IB:
Thanks for explaining those differences. I did not know that there was a dialect known as Memoni. Do non-muslims of that area also call this dialect Memoni?

tahmed o.k then we are on the same page !!!

I am sure there are many fine people from bihar and UP also who have come to Pakistan. Only thing is...the mqm thugs and their chamchas on chowk are not among them.

Re: # 200 dost bhai,

Memons orignated from Kutch,Khatiawar - Memons speak Memoni a bad shape of Gujrati . Most Memons are Sunni Muslims.
While Khojas are a Shia Sect ( close to Ismailis ) they speak Gujratis - Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a Khoja while Bohris is a Shia Sect which break away . Both Khojas/Bohris speak Gujrati - MQM diehard supporters and settled in Karachi.
( dost mitter - with all the fights between us - we stand united for the betterment of Pakistan - sometimes we go a bit out of lines but that does not mean we are against Pakistan - Pakistan is the best thing happened to all of us )

Someone points to Mohajirs of Hyderabad/Sukker/Nawabshah - kindly visit the places to check the status of the community there. Mohajirs of Hyderabad are living in paradise as compared to Sindis - because they are educated and opened up there businesses.

But Memons don't come from U.P. or Bihar and in this respect don't belong to the core MQM clientel -- the Urdu speaking folk.

Are they really donating freely to MQM or the fascist MQM extort money from them?

IB#195:

"rest Memon Speaking"

Is Memon a language, too? In India, at least, I think that they are all Gujaratis.

BTW, could you tell what is the difference between Khojas, Memons and Bohris? Aren't they all Gujju Shias? Thanks.