The Transformation of the Punjabi Man: Pashtunization or Militarization?

"MQM's value system - at least at the moment - remains unprincipled in many ways, so it is not likely to happen. Mohajir mainstream is egaliterian, moderately religious, liberal, and fundamentally patriotic. Pir sahib, depending upon his fortunes, beseeches the Indian govt to patriate us all back to India; I think he should speak for himself. The mainstream also perceives MQM as anti-religious and it cannot deal with, nor support, bhatta collection and terrorism. We need an open society, not no-go areas. Before anything else, there is need for MQM's politics to change and align with the the mohajir mainstream values."

I agree with all of this except i wasnt aware that MQM was thought to be anti religious in karachi (by the taleban standards yes) ...not sure thats quite right.

I also wasnt aware that the MQM was considered financially corrupt although zeemax said they are..does anyone know more about that?

Bridge Sahib, it was about what DAWN reported in the spirit of fair journalism. It's not only the right of citizens to know what the hell is going on in Karachi's streets but also the obligation of a fair journalist. It seems to me that now MQM clientel is more interested in marauding the streets of Karachi than letting this great city develope as it is certainly predestined to do barring any insane destructionism.

re @290 .... ask any woman in karachi of ANY ethnicity whether she'd rather move to any other place in sindh nwfp or baluchistan. Lahore and isloo maybe. Why do you say stuff that is clearly either complete crap or totally exclusive to men?

Zahid you may not be the most racist person on this board but you are by far the most ridiculous ...i mean HP's blatant "muhajir will come and get you with a kolapuri knife" crap is at least worth a good laugh...

Do you really think muhajirs take it personally when you criticise UP /bihari hindus? is ANYONE really that stupid ?
Please find a single person in pakistan india or infact switzerland who thinks that muhajirs will bristle if you call bihari hindus backward. Thats the extent of how out of touch you are with any form of reality and why its a real pain reading anything you write.

According to Salim Sahib's statistics, Muslims made some (10-15)% in the eastern part and about 30% in the west. On the average one could assume they made about 20% of U.P. The fitter ones left for Pakistan leaving behind the retarded ones. We can forget them. But what about the Hindus making some (70-80)% of the total population? They had the same genes and culture. Why couldn't they develope whereas their fellow Hindus in Tamil Nadoo and Karnatka could very well do?

Someone was showing grief for his/her countrymen in other regions of Pakistan because they're suffering under repressive feudal system and are not able to enjoy the freedom that MQM has guaranteed to the Karachites! I feel reminded to an excerpt from DAWN posted here by some inquisitive guy yesterday about a robbery in a bus by MQM workers which tells us what that 'hard working', 'capable' and 'educated' people responsible for the skyrocketing development of Karachi have become after having completed their job of developing Karachi!

HP #283 Greetings. I basically agree with you, and would only add that we separate the mqm-thugs from the ordinary people. mqm basically shot itself on the foot on May 12, and Musharraf lost a good deal of support that day as well when he exposed the extent to which he was prepared to go to put down the democracy movement in Pakistan. So, now mqm-types can talk big on chowk, but they stand exposed for the ghoondas that they are before the rest of Pakistan.

viqaram: I am sure you dont have a problem with having a mindset of a ghoonda. If you have a problem with being considered a liar as well, then I suggest you back your accusation that I am a racist by cutting and pasting anything I have written that strikes you as being racist. On the other hand, if you dont have a problem with being considered a liar as well, then you need not trouble yourself with that, and can be happy writing some more of you hollow words.

salimchauhan: You have thousands of posts from me written on chowk. Show me one post where i have used the term "sons of the soil" which you claim I have been "bragging about"!! This is how pathetic you are - making up the term "pisr-e-zameen" to back your claims to victomhood, and when challenged, blatantly lying by claiming I have been using it.

Anyone familiar with chowk knows that most issues here revolve around india-pakistan politics or around religion. and more recently dictatorship vs democracy. It is mqm followers who drag in ethnic politics, and it is mqm followers who stand alone in their support for a military dictator.

Re: # 284 viqarm, I agree with you there about MQM changing her policies - to me Altaf Hussain is the biggest hurdle ; I am sure with the passage of time things will change. I am very much hopeful.

HP, it's not a mooradabadi knife - its rampuri and mate, you don't have a clue about Karachi.

1. Muslims who migrated stayed at Marton Quaters - Jail Road and areas surrounding Saddar .
2. Nazimabad , N.Nazimabad , FB Area etc. were when Karachi was the capital - were considered posh areas - still the cost of land in these areas are high according to Pakistani Standards . ( we had a house in Nazimabad No.4 during the 60's - Babur Ghori, Rauf Siddique and most of the MQM leadership still lives in these areas - literacy rate still is in 90% - mostly proffesionals) .
3. It was the Memons,Delhiwalas and Khojas who own most textiles businesses in Karachi . Ishtiak Baig owns Asias biggest Denim Manufacturing Unit - he is from UP while Dewans owns Asias biggest Textile Factory in Burewala,Punjab 'Burewala Textile Mill' and the list is too long - just two examples.
4. MQM with all your stupid comments survives after 1992 operation and is even more stronger.
5. People like Altaf Hussain would not have been popular if people like you and the Punjabi lott did to us -MQM being the party formed by angry young man because of quota system, biased attitudes

I remember the qoute of one of my superior officers - regarding the formation of MQM ( DIG Crimes , SP ) 'jab sharif insaan badmashi per utarta hai tu us say khatarnaq koye nahin hota'

I say when there's Pakhtoon-Punjabi Itehad, Punjabi Student Fed., Nationalists Parties in Pakistan openly bash eachother - why not MQM which is a representative forum for the Mohajirs of Pakistan.
Then all our arguements are falling into deaf ears !

#191 TAhmed
That is fine; I have the mind set of a street ghoonda and I don't have any problem with it. You have the mind set of a racist, and it isn't because of your education, or your parents; you must have been born with it.

Good luck.

#258 IB
"I think it's pretty clear how important it is for the Muhajirs to unite under MQM with all the flaws and evil inside MQM because it's MQM which is our last resort from
the racist Sindis and ungreatful Punjabis".

MQM's value system - at least at the moment - remains unprincipled in many ways, so it is not likely to happen. Mohajir mainstream is egaliterian, moderately religious, liberal, and fundamentally patriotic. Pir sahib, depending upon his fortunes, beseeches the Indian govt to patriate us all back to India; I think he should speak for himself. The mainstream also perceives MQM as anti-religious and it cannot deal with, nor support, bhatta collection and terrorism. We need an open society, not no-go areas. Before anything else, there is need for MQM's politics to change and align with the the mohajir mainstream values.

With its present politics, I suspect that MQM support has reached its limits; it cannot be broadened by dangling the attitudinal threat of people like HP, TAhmed, chuhara and a number of others.

The only reason Hindus left for India was the aggression of Moradabadi knife wielding mohajir. They supposedly left everything in India but did not forget to bring their knives with them.
Their love for being armed has now progressed to hanging on to TTs and Ak47.
The communal nature of the Urdu speaking makes them easy target for sectarian and communalist politics. Atlaf just pandered to what comes naturally to mohajirs and they had always loved: Politics of hate and communalism.

HP #281 {"Poor Sindhi and Balochi suffered because they were clearly behind in education after the Hindus left for India."}

HP,
Damned Hindus. They took all the schools, books, pencils, paper, and teachers with them to India. :)

It is very true that mohajir in Pakistan got the opportunities that their counterparts in UP or Bihar never got so in a way I do agree that it is not an apple to apple comparison. Having said that I would also like to point out that the same bunch, while still in UP or Bihar before the partition, never really had anything to boast for then. All their braggadocio and boasting is because of the opportunity they got in Sindh in particular and Pakistan in general.

It is also an unfortunate fact that mostly Sindhis ended up eating up the cost of the opportunity afforded to the mohajir. That would still not be an issue if Mohajirs had accepted to share in the progress and the job creation that came with Karachi becoming the capital and only port in West Pakistan. Karachi before 1958 was still a dilapidated city due to numerous slums inhabited by the Urdu speaking. With the booming Textile industry and investment from the Fed during the Ayub era, Karachi really prospered.

All major Mohajir population centers such as Nazimabad, federal a, b,c new Karachi etc areas were developed during the sixties to move the slum dwellers to two room quarters and housings. In the 50s, the same effort was made in PECHS and other societies for upscale housing for government servants.

Most of the expenses for these developments were paid for by the Federal Government and the cash came from the tremendous jute exports during and after the Korean War.

What did Mohajir contribute to this? All they did was take over the jobs because the majority of bureaucrats in Isloo and before that in Karachi were Urdu Speaking.
The Khojas from Bomaby invested in trading and just a handful entered the textile Industry.
Punjabis still own more textile mills and industry in Karachi than the mohajir or the Khojas.

So Mohajir really grabbed the opportunity then because they stifled competition from Punjab and other provinces. Poor Sindhi and Balochi suffered because they were clearly behind in education after the Hindus left for India.

Tahmed Sahib #272 {"SalimChauhan: My point was not merely your coming up with the divisive term ("pisr-e-zameen"), but the distinction you this term implies. So just translating into english isnt what is needed. What is needed is for you to shake out of this lifelong training you have obviously received in distinguishing between people on the basis of ethnicity."}


Tahmed Sahib,

I merely translated into Farsi what you and others of your mentality have been bragging for years - "Sons of the Soil" to distinguish yourselves from Mohajirs - regardless of how many generations of Urdu-speaking Mohajirs have been born in Pakistan.

BTW, Tahmed Sahib,
I saw the following adds right under your post and was wondering whether you have become a broker of brides and property. Don't you agree that giving equal standing to "Punjabi Brides" and "Punjabi Property" is a sad reflection of how some people view their women?


Punjabi Brides

Are You an NRI Looking For a Punjabi Match? Join Free Now!
JeevanSathi.com

Punjab Property
Looking for Property in India? Book Premium NRI Residential Villas