The Power of Ideas and the Modern University

re: tahmed32 & viqarm

Sorry to interrude into this discussion, but I thought that I would clarify a few points.

Copernicus did, indeed, was the first person to come with the heliocentric theory and he based his ideas on the works of the Greeks. Copernicus, was one of the first to question the medieval concept of a geocentric universe, which was based on the cosmological ideas of Aristole that stated that earth was the center of the universe and the planets revolved around the earth in perfect concentric circles.

It is important to note that Copernicius only had a theoretical argument for a heliocentric theory and since he was timid by nature, he did not publish his ideas. Copernicius was afraid of ridicule and the fact that he simply did not wish to lock horns, with the Roman Catholic Church. The Protestant Reformation had occured in the life time of Copernicus and as he was establishing his theoretical arguments on the heliocentric theory, he was aware that the church had zero-tolerance for heretical ideas.

Hence, he kept his theories to himself and never made them public.

Copernicus' ideas would be taken by a Danish astronomer by the name of Tyco Brahe. Brahe was interested in the heliocentric theory and he would build a private observatory on an island in the North Sea and from there, for the next twenty years, he religiously documented the motion of the planets and the stars. Brahe, basically laid the foundation for Galileo's works, because his documentation allowed for the exact prediction of the planetary motions and in fact, his data/observations/measurements were so accurate that it was easy to predict the location of a planet or a star on a given day and on a given hour!

Brahe, also did not publish his works either, but Brahe had an assistant by the name of Johannes Kepler. Kepler would take the work of Brahe and would construct the first mathematical model of a heliocentric universe. This model was quite similar to the theoretical ideas of Copernicus, but unlike Copernicus; Kepler had mathematical evidence to support his theories.

Kepler was a contempory of Galileo and both were aware of each other's works and in fact, there was a sustained correspondence between them. Consequently, Galioleo was aware of Kepler's work. In this sense, Galileo gets the credit for discovering the heliocentric theory, because he was the first one to point a telescope to the heavens and confirm Kepler's theories based on the astronomical observations of Brahe, which were inspired by the works of Copernicus.

Unlike, Copernicus or Brahe or even Kepler, Galileo published his observations in a book called the Starry Messenger, in which he discredited the concept of the geocentric universe. For his audacity in refuting the Bible and the biblical concept of the geocentric universe, Galileo was dragged before the Inquistion and under torture, was forced to recant. After recanting, Galileo left his home town, and once away, he restated that his ideas were right and the church was wrong literally thumbing his nose at the church!

Galileo's simple claim to fame is that he was the first one to publish the idea; the concept about a heliocentric theory, even though his fame and acclaim was based on the accumulated the works of Kepler, Copernicus and Brahe.

Galileo simply confirmed the Copernican theory of a heliocentric universe and that is why he is generally credited with it; though historicans know that his work was the final culmination of the process that was started by Copernicus and carried on by Brahe and Kepler.

Hope this helps.

Ciao

viqarm: I think copernicus is credited with the idea that the earth revolves around the sun. Galileo bought into that idea (and I assume not indepenedently but by learning about the copernician theory), but as i recall from reading somewhere (i wasnt there myself at the time) Galileo recanted on this too when pushed by the maulvis (i.e. the christian variety).

If Copernicus died (1543 A.D) before Galileo was born (1562 A.D), and if Copernicus was the first to propose (albeit not publish in his lifetime) a heliocentric model, how could the latter be considered Galileo's brilliant idea?

Tahmed #40
lol...

great humor..
You have out done yourself Bro Tahmed.
May your tribe increase.

#37 masadi: you write It is not "mumbo jumbo", it is an interpretation of factual history, the FACT that Muslims were scapegoated by the MAJ and post ulterior motive of getting his own country the claims for the cause of seperation were not borne out, not with the masses of the West and certainly not with those of the East, democracy was nipped in the bud, the elite of the West and the colonials were helped, and this land, to the detriment of its people was converted into an outpost of the neo-colonials, not to mention the catastrophic effect it hand on the Muslims of India, and fragmented the political power of the Muslims of the Sub-Continent, producing a multitude of "pundit-hates" that unleashed their wrath as a reaction to what MAJ did.

And all this is one sentence!! I indeed lack the brains to understand what you are trying to say. And if you have chelas who can explain the words of the great sage, I am all ears. In the meantime, if you dont have the courtesy to write clearly (e.g. no more than one issue per sentence, thank you very much), dont expect me to have the courtesy to call it anything other than what it is, i.e. mumbo-jumbo. The kind of thing you find written on billboards carried around by a homeless man complaining about evil space aliens in cahoots with the World Governemnt kidnapping his grandma.

Masadi, Unicef just reported that the children of this world are better off at anytime since they started keeping statistics on infant mortality, nutrition, healthcare, education etc. USA USA USA!!!!

Also, Indians are better off now then every before. The chinese are better off than ever before. It is all because they have played the system well. Just being a contrarian for the sake of hearing your drivel doesn't make change happen, Masadi. Showing results does.

And for the last time..who si this US elite you keep refering to?

read "not to mention the catastrophic effect it hand on the Muslims of India, and fragmented the political power of the Muslims of the Sub-Continent"

as

"not to mention the catastrophic effect it had on the Muslims of India, and fragmented the political power of the Muslims of the Sub-Continent"

tahmed writes "#16 masadi: what is this mumbo-jumbo?? "

It is not "mumbo jumbo", it is an interpretation of factual history, the FACT that Muslims were scapegoated by the MAJ and post ulterior motive of getting his own country the claims for the cause of seperation were not borne out, not with the masses of the West and certainly not with those of the East, democracy was nipped in the bud, the elite of the West and the colonials were helped, and this land, to the detriment of its people was converted into an outpost of the neo-colonials, not to mention the catastrophic effect it hand on the Muslims of India, and fragmented the political power of the Muslims of the Sub-Continent, producing a multitude of "pundit-hates" that unleashed their wrath as a reaction to what MAJ did. One man came along and tried to fix it, the ZAB, and they came up with Ad Hominem arguments against him, value judgments and "Islamic rhetoric" by those that were slaves of the West, and this miserable High Priest of the Church of MAJ, manto is still trying to legitimize those high crimes of the elite.... you are in the same boat though much smarter than Manto, you mask and veil your support in moralistic terms much like the US elite became "Islamized" in order to fight the SU in Afghanistan.

Now if you two don't have brains enough to understand the above summation, try reading it more than once or have GT or HP translate it for you....

Madani sahib once again thank you for your support and your wisdom which is a welcome change on Chowk, keep it up, Long live the HP, ahmedmadani, Masadi friendship for social justice...

Chaltahai writes "While you stew in your derision of the US elite, the rest of the world is copying its ways and moving ahead."

You can "copy its ways" and become a slave, like the Indian elite, even as the country goes to hell, or you can understand their ways and confront them and be brave and independant even though the system will reject you. I choose the independence way, you and tahmed are welcome to live in your slavish existence.

Regarding my articles being "amateurish", let us see what you have produced and if you can produce even the level of the language used in my articles, leave alone the complexity of thought and concepts. Claims like yours are "amateurish", things that I have produced are certainly not...

okhla writes "Dum hai toh aur photo dikhaa"

So you can send your assassins after me you damn criminal- go to hell

prophetboy...OBL has a 46% approval rating in pureland...and Al Queda 43%..Mushy's approval rating is less than 40%..

how're you going to spin this?

Masadi #14

You say " I am not "bearded", and as far as looks go, I look more like your Western "gods" than the MAJ did"

lol...


Bukkwaas mat kar.
Dum hai toh aur photo dikhaa.
Nahin toh chupp kar kay baith jaa.

Masadi #14



lol...


Bukkwaas mat kar.
Dum hai toh aur photo dikhaa.
Nahin toh chupp kar kay baith jaa.

tahmed,

Enjoy the parody of a famous poem, and reflect on its appropriateness for pakistan of today

jayp: so you think you are creative - after repeating the same one line ("Pakistan is a failure") for 10 years, the only difference between you and the inmates of insane asylums is that the latter get their faces washed in the morning.