The need for De-Bhuttofication of the Pakistan People's Party

What we require is not de-bhuttofication - but de-Islamization of PAkistan!!

Re: # 291

How about this hypothetical-

Is Islam was not there, Pakistan would have been perfect!!

No, power doesn't come expressly from proximity or use of religion. this is not a universal phenomenon. this is an authentic islamic phenomenon.

I like the hypotheticals you throw out Kaal. Wht if nation states weren't there..wouldn't islam be perfect? I tell ya what..if humans weren't there..Islam would be perfect. How is that for a hypothetical. Go crazy with this..my friend.

shahjee,

Arabic imperialism of Islam is like a virus, that seeks to infect human bodies and then aims to multiply itself in as many human bodies as possible while at the same time taking those bodies to sure and steady death.

American imperialism is certainly enslaving but does not really kill the bodies and lets the soul survive. Islam actually kills the soul and brainwashes the human mind.

May be we can use #286 as a segue to bring this hopelessly wayward discuss back on its rails, by saying that Bhutto understood and appreciated that power of political religion :)

Chalta, we are not attaching value judgements (good or bad).

Re: # 285

shahjee,

Correct - the fight is between Arabic versus American Imperialism- but the difference is that Arabic Imperialism tries to put itself on a higher moral ground by justifying its' genocide of idolaters with reference to an imaginary moon deity and hallucinations of a mad person.
whereas American Imperialism loosely follows American multi-billionaire trans-national corporate interests and certainly does not envisages a regressive Bedouin society as its ideal.

Shahji, who has taken on the US?

chalta, could you be overlooking the (mediating) role of nation states? If one took away those nation states (which are - some can argue - an unIslamic entitty) where will power slide to? One can guess, and agreed that is hypothetical.

But take ANY Islamic nation. Obviously, there are all kinds of litle centers of power, but in general, who has the power to move the masses, more than all others groups?

I would suggest it is not the liberals or the seculars (as you and I use the term. An Islamic secularist is a very different being. :)).

Basically, power comes from proximity to or use of religion, and the ability to carry the book wearing shirt and pant (not true for females. They have to be more appropriately dressed, in the manner neembu invariably promotes).

Power without religion is like moonlight without the sun.

#276 Posted by laddu on September 18, 2007 10:05:08 am
Re: # 271

kaal,

Are you from this world? Islam is arabic imperialism that slowly and steadily tries to decimate every other faith through terror, violence, persuasion and rewards.
See how Osama videos follows the script that was actually written a thousand years back. Every muslim knows the script by heart. Read the Quran and hadith if you want to know the end game of this script- destruction of all of us!!!
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Laddua by that defination USA will beat ever one else

"To decimate every other through force or sanction or threat far worse ".here not every American DOES NOT know about that.But its the latest book of Neo con.So cool down and take on USA as some have.. before you know they will keep you coding And answering teleohones ....Dont eat too much ladu its bad for your health

GOD Discriminates! that my friend is a foregone conclusion. that is why numbers don't matter. We can debate this all day.

Value is held in the company by the shareholders and shareholders alone. Doesn;t matter if the company has 5 million employees or 2. Not sure what your point is here. You are confusing value with power. Same goes for military or patriarchal families. In most companies a shareholder is not the ultimate power holder. There is strategic control, financial control, operational control. mgmt has control, if it is labor heavy unions have controls, there is deliberation and consensus. SO I am not sure what you are driving at.

Authentic islam puts control in the hands of an unprovable entity..that is why it is fluff..the muslims outside the core of this fluff are the real power holders as they use their noggin rather than kneel and bob all day.

{"A strong and vibrant democratic PPP will be the best guarantee of a democratic Pakistan. "}

Yasser,
I agree with you. When it comes to Bezamir Bhootni, I have very mixed feelings. I thought that the youthful BB was an attractive leader, a good speaker, and even an effective debater. Unfortunately, everything about her degrades into an aura of hypocrisy, awkward piety, and a mentality oozing with slavish catering to the West.

I even suspect her of harboring a vengeful hatred against Pakistan for the murder of her father. Her half-hearted attempt at wearing the dopatta over her head for consumption back home betrays her lack of sincerity. I would respect her more if she genuinely wore a hijab or went without cover as a sincere gesture of her individuality.

Also, I would want to know what she has done to overcome her racist and murderous viewpoint that she exhibited toward Mohajirs and what is her relationship with General Khabisoola BuRbuR.

Finally, she needs to clear up the cloud over her mansion in UK, her secret Swiss accounts, and a full explanation of the alleged export of priceless objects from Pakistani museums.

"Noone takes the constitution too seriously BECAUSE it is tied to closely to the quran. Try considering that.."

Agree.
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Chalta, if you just consider a few more points, and you will actually see why the earth will always be totally flat, no matter what sciece keeps informing people (quite uncessarily, IMO).

Numbers matter for those who (and in systems that) count. (Couting as a form of aggregation makes sense only if you believe in essential equality of all, right? If God discriminates then counting would be sinful.)

In a great many systems, value is not assumed to be uniformly distributed. In such systems value is confined in a few hands. As a business firm, for instance. Or, in the military. Or even in a close-knit patriarchical family.

Voting, and follwing what the largest numbers want, will be a ridiculous idea in these systems, right?

Kaal,


The inner contradiction between godly shariah and the piece of 'man made' trash called Pakistani constitution has been simmering since the day Pakistan was formed. The question of 'identity' and 'Pakistan ka matlab kya' so often gets asked that this contradiction between the sovereignty of a man made constitution versus the god's word is clearly evident.
Pakistani constitution is required to follow the "Islamic principles" , which losely defined means coherence to shariah. To what degree it is to do so is the only area of disagreement between the 'enlightened moderates', 'moderates' and the 'extremists' .
And ALL of them agree that idolators need to be pushed into submission- only the manner and severity of the strategy to be applied is a moot point.
The constitution becomes the veil or taqiyya to fool the liberal west - whereas the original Islamic agenda towards the idolators gets slowly strengthen day by day.

Kaal, no one takes the consitution too seriously in Pakistan BECAUSE it is tied to closely to the quran. Try considering that..

Kaal, who so ever has the power? So what happened to Authencity and non-authenticity per your logic? You are now saying that since the Fluff as you put it is greater in number than the core it is ok if they draft the rules for social governance and interaction? What the heck happened to perfect system for humans, logical, truly divine and all that other stuff? You are beginning to scare me with the waffling..don;t go all John Kerry on me..:-(

Laddu, Kaal is indeed from this world. I can guarantee it. There are a lot of people who think how he does. Thre have been a lot of people hwo have thought like this. The earth was flat, woman came from the spleen of a man, teh earth is 7000 years old, thunder means God just bowled a strike in the bowling alley up in heaven...then fucking science comes in and screws everything up. Damn you SCIENCE!! but there is a way around it..retrofit it!!!