The need for De-Bhuttofication of the Pakistan People's Party

Re: # 110

Arjun & HP:

"#82 Posted by HP on September 16, 2007 3:21:43 pm

Azim Premji is not a self made man. He owes a lot to a successful business helping create another one. I am sure in between he might have many other ventures that failed..."

Another simplistic thing for HP sahib. Fear of failure drives successful to succeed. Failure never overhelms into dejection, but is the best teacher for these successful.

Are you afraid of failure, and therefore you do not try HP sahib?

100
"So Sindhi is a nationality. "

Yes. Sindhi is a nationality like punjabis, like Bengalis there are reasons they are called sndhi, punjabi and Bengali and even bihari. There can be thousands of nationalities under one nation.Jahil

#64 Posted by HP on September 16, 2007 2:40:01 pm


Pardesi,
Please read Farzana Versey's article in counterpunch.com that deals with this myth of "How a Muslim Billionaire
Thrives in Hindu India"

This is really annoying that some secularist present him as a muslim billionaire in HINDU india. Just try to understand the irony of the whole sh*t of this mulsim billionaire non sense.


Who cares what pakis like you and NRI(Non-indian residents of india) like FV think...

The fact of the matter is that pureland, the promised land for the muslims, hasn't produced ONE SINGLE billionaire..let alone an azim premji...

Ref Yasser Latif Hamdani #31

[The Communist Party of India came out heavily in the favor of the Muslim League in 1940s because in their analysis Muslim League was the only party capable of undoing the feudal Unionist Party. It is true that many of the Unionists then broke ranks and joined the Muslim League in 1946-1947.... but in main the Communist Party's analysis was right: Pakistan was necessary for the creation of a national bourgeoisie in this region. To use the Stalinist vocabulary... it was the second step that they miscalculated on...]

The Communist Party of India came out on the side of the Muslim League because Stalin told them so. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't attribute any other motives to Indian Communists.

Arjun, It's Resident non-Indian/non-resident Paaki like FV

Re: # 108

Ranjit:

Muslim Indians of This India's" generation do not want to be compared with Pakistani muslims. I have seen and heard in North Kashmiris Indians down to South India. It is most obvious in Mumbai.

This India's muslim Indian generation will create its own identity. Kabir Khan of Chak De India proved it. Shah Rukh Khan must make more such movies. This is best way to overcome the shell-shocked generation.

114 Posted by HP on September 16, 2007 5:40:54 pm
100
"So Sindhi is a nationality. "

"Yes. Sindhi is a nationality like punjabis, like Bengalis there are reasons they are called sndhi, punjabi and Bengali and even bihari. There can be thousands of nationalities under one nation.Jahil "

natinality based on State would be have been better than on Religion.

#112 harimau

"Yasser, dear boy, Jinnah wanted Hindus to remain in Pakistan so they would be hostages who would ensure good treatment of its Muslim minority by India. Those are Jinnah's own words."

More than that, he wanted to keep United Punjab and United Bengal as part of Pakistan. It was love of real estate and not love for Hindus or Sikhs that was behind Jinnah's kind gestures. Same love for real estate has driven Kashmir adventure with no end in sight.

If he had so much love for Hindus, why he had to usher in so much misery to so many Punjabis, Bengalis and even to his own Indian muslims.

Re: # 108 Ranjit Sab... You have good posting.
Incidently Masadi is driving that point of creuel treatment of IM by MAJ. You are intelligent men and also masadi andboth come to same conclusion.

#119 Posted by TOLKININ
"natinality based on State would be have been better than on Religion."

I have not seen your posts before so I apologize if my earlier reply was harsh. You make a good point and as a general rule that should always be the case. But the situation in India was different and still is. The uniqueness of the situation does not qualify it to be called improper. It was a unique political situation and needed some unique and creative political decisions. Those decisions were taken and all have to deal with that. The Congress never said no to Pakistan and agreed to the partition.

Would you have agreed to the partition if the Sindhis, Punjabis, Pathan, Bengali or the Baloch had asked for a separate country of their own outside of India?

Now obviously their claims would have been without the religion. Can the current India accept a new country which is not based on religion?

Ref bulleya #41

[......one needs to keep two points in mind, however.....the first is that jinnah and the muslim league never predicted kashmir......so in a sense that is where the problem started.....i would blame nehru for that, as jinnah and gandhi were ready to solve it on a plebescite (as was nehru at one point).......had kashmir not happened, i am 100% convinced pakistan and india would be like the eu of today....people would have been going back and forth easily, as if there were no border......]

Come on, Jinnah-bhai knew fully well what was happening in Kashmir. In fact, the man played it as well as he played the Partition card in the 1940s.

Months before Independencem Jinnah-bhai maneuvered to install Shaw Nawaz Bhutto as the diwan of Junagadh so that he could have Junagadh accede to Pakistan. Junagadh aceded to Pakistan on Aug 14, 1947 keeping India in the dark about its intentions. Jinnah-bhai accepted the accession with alacrity despite having agreed with India that in sensitive cases such as Junagadh, each country would consult with the other before making a final decision.

Jinnah-bhai, despite having signed a Standstill Agreement with Kashmir, stopped all civil supplies from reaching Kashmir. On top of that, not only did he allow armed infiltrators from Pakistan to invade Kashmir, he granted leave to Pak Army officers so that they could lead the invasion effort. He then ordered the Pak Army to assist the invading forces when India sent in its troops to assist the Kashmir Government, except that the British C-in-C told Jinnah-bhai that he would rather resign than have British officers of the Pak Army fight British officers of the Indian Army.

Read up on history. Jinnah-bhai was not the knight in shining armor on a white charger you imagine him to be. He was just a shyster lawyer who lost his case and had to take home a moth-eaten Pakistan where even he was not planning to live for long, planning to retire in his home in Bombay.

[the second point is that if one, specifically, wants to look at the condition of the individuals living in what constitutes pakistan today, one can safely say, they have benefited hugely from pakistan........this region was the boondocks of india......much of it was actually land taken from afghanistan, by the british.....it has almost zero universities, industry, education, etc........

......this region would have remained backwards, without pakistan, as the educated manpower of this geographical region would have migrated to delhi, bombay, and now bangalore etc.....making it even more backwards.......there would have been no reason to put up industry here, etc....there would be a little karachi, no islamabad, a little faisalabad....no large dams......other than a larger lahore, there would be nothing much west of it.......it would not have made economic sense for a united india, to invest in baluchistan, nwfp, sind and even in most of pakistan's punjab......]

You are describing Kerala in India. It has the highest rate of unemployment (despite near 100% literacy) and its people went all over India to find employment. Then they went off to the Persian Gulf where I believe they encounter a lot of your compatriots so that says something about the employment opportunities created by an independent Pakistan!

Among the first large factories India set up was a fertilizer factory in Sindri in Bihar which to this day remains the most backward state in India. That proves that Jwahirullah Nehru would have parceled out some industries to Balochistan and Sindh also.

#108 Posted by Ranjit

“Most Pakistanis including yourself, Manto and Romair keep asking this question and then compare Pakistanis with Indian Muslims to justify the benefits of partition.”

You have not grasped the essence of my question. The Educated Muslims who came to Pakistan and my emphasis is on education were not really laureates. Most of them were not highly educated. Some had barely done matriculation and they lacked professional qualifications in the true sense. Engineers were not graduate but had engineering diplomas and doctors were not MBBS either just a handful had some solid credentials. People make a lot out of the so-called Muslim elite. Majority was Aligarh educated and that was no where near the top in Indian schools before 1947. Their only qualification was that some of them already had jobs and some background in professions and that helped in Pakistan.

Replacing this kind of mediocre talent should never have been a problem for the Muslims.

Currently Aligarh supports more muslims than it ever did before 1947 Hence, my question.

"Why the Muslims in India have not recovered from a loss, minuscule in numbers, in the last 60 years?"

Secondly, Indian Muslims are an Indian problem. We only come in when people come up with ONE billionaire sh*t. If Indians wants to keep their 150 Mil population down and are happy with one token then it is their prerogative.

Re: # 122

hp,

"Can the current India accept a new country which is not based on religion?"

..... good point ... i could never figure out what makes india a nation .... what does a sideways head wagging idlee eating madrasi have in common with a fish eating bengali or a meat eating punjabi ?..... if it is not hindooism, what is it ? .... as far as i can tell, a punjabi from the wrong side of the border would rather spend his time with another punjabi from god's side of the border instead of wasting time with a keralite or tamilian from hanumanland .....

.....why, just the other day i was at an indian punjabi's house for dinner where i was the only punjabi guest - the rest were weird people from somewhere down south who spoke some strange language and had the oddest habits ..... as far as i was concerned they could have been from mars .....anyway...... the host had a well stocked bar which he had opened up for the janta - cheap tangureay and beefeater gin, cheap red label scotch, cheap jack daniels bourbon, cheap smirnoff vodka, middle of the road california wines and tons of cheap budweiser beer from sam's club ....... however, when i approached the bar, the host pulled me aside, winked and whispered, "i have some blue label in the basement, let's go" .... as we walked towards the basement door we both looked with disdain at the sambar eating riff raff sipping on their cheap whiskeys and vodkas ......... at that moment he and i realized we were part of the wrong nation ........ what a shame ..

#113 Posted by anil on September 16, 2007 5:39:58 pm


Failure never overhelms into dejection, but is the best teacher for these successful.


If failure is a great teacher, Pakiland's utter failure to create the conditions for ONE BILLIONAIRE to rise up should give it the best teacher in the world..

It's a source of great discomfort to paki rears that India has created the conditions in which Premji has made himself into the second richest muslim in the world and the richest muslim in south asia...they can be in denial in their own circle of self-delusion but outside that echo chamber, the world sees it like it is and the pakis don't like what the world sees...

hamid2 the funny buffoon,

Were blacks/goras in the US ur biraadari that u prefer to live there?

hamid2 is a true Toba Tek Singh...neither theirs nor ours...a pseudo ID and a pseudo life.....what a waste.....ah! No! It's ur buffoonry that's useful.