Ramadan Special: Tales of Sufi Wisdom

Dear Dawa-i-dil,

I am feeling particularly gunahgaar today,can you please share with us your opinion on whether Shai are muslim or kafir? I have heard that when they pray, before the final salaam, they hold each other's hand and start dancing to the tune of "Ali ali ali ali kar"??

Please post a comment, or 80, to let me know what you think....

.
with much respect,
thinking storm

chalta,

I am making a list of people to commend for thier extraordinary service to Pakistan, the land of the pure. Names like Arjun2, Sadna, and Jang are already on this list for thier unwavering and unrelenting biased focus on all matters Pakistani. We Pakistanis can only become better with encouragment from this group.

- Arjun has been awarded the nishan-e-suragh
- Jang has been awarded the nishan-e-suraakh (so no-one is confused)
- Sadna bibi is currently going through the second round of deliberation by the awards committee.
- And you my good man, have made it into my good graces and I am fast tracking your nomination. You may in fact be awarded a nishan before Sadna..

Carry on.
with much respect,
thinking storm

Tahmed, I like lowly pakis man..especially you...what do you have against lowly pakis?.

Kaal (disregard 249, I am not drunk..I promise) , sufism like ahmedism doesn't strive in pakiland not because hindus can't live with islam..but because muslims deem them outside the fold of their religion. It is this insecurity within Islam that makes educated, logical and most sensible people draft legal mandates to declare ahmedis non-muslims in a man-made constitution. (how ridiculous is that?) Sorry..no hindu has anything to with this. It is an entirely islamic phenomenon. There is no authentic islam btw. There is no authentic religion..because it there was, it would be gone forever..faith cannot stand the strains of time..like you..it tries to retrofit the surroundings (which are constantly changing..into neat little boxes to make sense of them per the boundaries laid out thousands of years ago. Silly..ain't it. :-)

chaltahai: and what is a man-about-town like you doing wasting time with lowly pakis on the internet on a saturday night??

it's saturday night
and i aint got nobody
:-(

chaltahai: still having trouble saying the word "Pakistan". 60 years is long enough. get used to the idea. resistance is futile, as thinking storm says.

Kaal, sufism like ahmedism doesn't strive in pakiland because hindus can't live with islam..but because muslims (those who deem things outside of their things as islamic or non-islam) deem them outside the fold of their religion. It is this insecurity within Islam that makes educated, logical and almost sensible people draft legal mandates to declare ahmedis non-muslims in a man-made constitution. What more can be more ridiculous than this? Sorry..no hindu has anything to with this. It is an entirely islamic phenomenon. There is no authentic islam btw. There is no authentic religion..because it there was it would be gone forever..faith cannot stand the strains of time..like you..it tries to retrofit the surroundings (which are constantly changing..into neat little boxes to make sense of them per the boundaries laid out thousands of years ago. Silly..ain't it. :-)

chalta-

listen to Kaal, he is trying to save you from assimilation .

But remember, resistance is futile :)
with much respect,
thinking storm

Naqshbandi #235 you write "the way to Paradise is the prophet".

This is too vague, and can be construed in a number of ways:

If you mean "follow the message conveyed to the prophet", then you need to explain how sufism (concerned with the spiritual world) has any relevance to the message of Islam (which is concerned with human actions in this world).

If you mean "do as the prophet did", then you are contradicting yourself given your message of following other men (i.e. sufis) while the prophet did not follow any sufi.

But dont let these little details come in the way of your spiritual quest.... :-)

chaltahai, what you wrote in # 243 would be very true, but only if sufism had real power and depth, or real conviction, to challenge real, authentic Islam. Then it could change Islam, if that were desirable.

It has none of those things. Think about it. Few educated Muslims stay with Sufism for long. Like Ahmedism, Sufism thrives mostly in non-Islamic societies. And in those countries, sufism does nothing but promote misunderstanding.

Why shouldn't Muslims and non-Muslims develop a genuine understanding of each other, and create ways to live together?

Kaal, it is funny..you like to circumsccribe people and beliefs into neat little boxes to retrofit your thinking. very Islamic trait, if you ask me. (pun intended) :-)

No, ts, it is important that jayp and chalta understand a key point. Of course, I don't mean that Jinnah was anything less than a good Muslim. He was. That is why that post is NOT addressed to any Pakistani admirer of Jinnah. ONLY to Hindu admirers of sufism, who believe, totally mistakenly, that somehow sufism is "good" and Islam is not.

That is a false notion that leaves Hindus unprepared to live with Islam, sufism or not.

kaal, even if jinnah was a Vishu worshipper that still doesn't take away from the negatives of religion. Moreso Islam..what is your point? It is entirely disingeunous to suggest that his love for Vishnu drove the TNT..I would say that it was his love for allah that did it. Now what?

To form beliefs diluting dogma is not disingenous nor is authenticity some virtuous attribute, especially if it precludes evolution and amalgamation of ideas.

Usman (Kaalchakra),

Your slyness is effecting your piousness.
with much respect,
thinking storm

oops, that should be, Pakistanis, please ignore # 239!

ts and other Pakistanis, please ignore # 238. I am just trying to explain to my Hindu friends that inauthenticity and dishonesty does not help, even if it is meant to promote 'brotherhood.' It does not work over the long haul.