Democracy, not terror, is the engine of political Islam

Naqsh, admittedly that was VERY unfair to you. You are a true believer; your sufism comes AFTER you express full and complete faith in traditional Islam. Never heard you confuse anything else for Islam, and vice versa. Nor are you actively trying to fool anyone.

You genuinely have a different, and respectable, appraoch. That's all. I take those words back enitirely. Sorry, bro.

Thanks Naqshbandi Sahib,

that was very enlightening. You bear out what Daniel Berk has described in a more detailed way regarding Brelvi theology's position toward the Prophet.

Do you also believe as Daniel Berk has stated in the presence of the Prophet during a Melad ceremony?

Re: # 92

kaal,

bhai i respect your interactions on chowk but here you are talking of something you have no knowledge of, or, insufficient knowledge.
:-)(

Mr. Dry Ascetic Sahib!

I am indeed a Sunni-Hanafi Barelvi and thus follow the orthodox Maturidi creed of Ahlus Sunnah w'al Jama'ah.

Thus my core beliefs are the same of those "Traditionalist" Muslims everywhere: a devotional love of Allah, and especially, of His Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.

As a Sunni-Barelvi scholar said: "Islam ishq e Nabi ka doosra naam hai!"

If a Hindu, clearly wrong-headed; if a Muslim, clearly ridiculous. Only a good political unit, a water carrier, a place holder, for political Islam.

Naqshbandi, your name suggests a leaning toward the Brelvi thought and your self-description of a devotional relation toward Islam is in line with that.

If I may ask, what're your core beliefs that make the foundation of this devotional relationship with Islam?

Naqshbandi: U are a Prophet and Allah loving Hindu, Zeemax is a Muslim. :)

i think i have finally nailed the difference between my idea of an islamic state and zeemax's: my islam is devotional first, political afterwards. zeemax's is purely political.

Muslims worship Allah. Islamists worship Islam. :-)

blowing up the bamiyaan buddha's wsn't exactly the taliban's finest hour was it?

to paraphrase bruce lee from enter the dragon: 'stones don't hit back.'

zee:
'poverty is my pride' [man faqru fakhri (?)]-- sacred hadith saying of our holy prophet muhammad sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam. this 'faqr' means not being attached to material things. if you have it alhamdulillah, if you don't alhamdulillah.

zeemax,
i don't actually get your 'warning' in your last post but any one who wants to--even in jest--blow up the blessed shrine of hazrat data ali hijwiri ganj bakhsh is an enemy of mine. if THAT is the kind of thing your brand of islamists wish to do then i pray they never come into power. and if it is between these types of islamists and musharraf i support musharraf.

a genuine islamic revolution on the other hand...notice islamic not salafite--would be a panacea for pakistan's woes.

shaykh abdul hakim murad--formerly dr. t j winter of cambridge university--a real scholar (not the wahabi type) has said that 'we have a shia state (iran), we have a wahabi state [saudi arabia] but we don't have a sunni state.'

Re: # 83

And Rasheed Ghazi.

Re: # 80

Naqshbandi suggests that "the peasants/working classes are already completely islamicised".

I suspect this equating premodern lifestyle and mindset with a timeless and universal Islamic message unaware of any cultural boundries. What can be said about the peasant/working class is that they're still behind on the time axis.

I suggest you go through the detailed analysis of this problem of confusing the Islamic way of life and merely a primitive culture in the wonderful article of Daniel Berk.

#81 Posted by hamidm2,

When Nek Mohammad was killed, it was supposed to be a great victory against 'terror'. When Zarqawi, ditto. Then Mulla Dadullah, same same. Then Abdullah Mehsood, no different. Now you want Bait-ullah Mehsud? Be my guest. :)

Actually Dorcheter is a good idea. They have nice high-tea there. You see, Jihadis don't HAVE to be in caves ! After all the cars they chose to blow up Covent Garden were all Mercedes :)

#80 Posted by Naqshbandi,

Don't even consider it. Not only will you lose, but you will worsen things enough to see Data Darbar being blown up just as Taiban blew up the Bamyan Budha :)

zeemax,

somewhere there is a hellfire missile with baitullah mehsud's name written on it ........ i would advise you from visiting any caves on your next visit to pakistan - you can hold your cell's meeting at the dorchester in london where your slk will be safe ......