Musharraf the Out-smarter

hamidm2 mian: "..... i think we should drop a couple of bombs on india just to get rid of arjun ...."

i don't think you really mean this.....do you......with george bush's credibility in the trash can, and arjun bombed, you would not have anyone left to quote.......the above two being the main individuals whose words you have, repeatedly, relied on to make your points......hence their survival is of great importance to you.....

P.S. ......i must say your loyalty is quite fickle....one day you quote arjun, the next day you want him bombed......how about a middle ground.....neither quote him, nor bomb him.......

Re: # 161
Urstruly, its hard to argue wheter someone was polite and diplomatic or not. If you want to hear certain POV (Point of View) you will hear it even if the other person is saying something else.
You and Reganities want to subscribe to certain POV even if the evidence does not support that then you are welcome to have your POV.

asfand #166 I have good news for you. The choice is not mian vs bb vs mush. The choice is democracy vs dictatorship. So vote for Wajihuddin, who is the candidate of those on the forefront of the good fight for democracy in Pakistan.

#166 so sorry. friendly fire accident.

Re: # 164
tahmed32, why do you have me in the race to bottom? This was my first interact after couple of months.

I am all for Pakistan Jindabad.

If the choice is between mian, bibi and sahib, then Mush is OK, no ifs buts and thens.

As a Pakistani, it is my biased opinion that Urstruly, and Borivili_Express have outsmarted Arjun, MaxwellCoffee, ModiForPM in the Great Race to the Bottom.

Pakistan Jindabad (as Zang would say).

maulana urstruly:

if your mighty jihadis were responsible for the soviet union's demise and now, according to you, they're going to do the same to the US, why isn't the paki flag on srinigar? kashmir kab banega pureland? surely india is nothing compared to the FSU and the US...

these hindus talk day and night about India shining, this one thing but how immoral they are can be read from this article, only a people like them can spend billions on weapons while not paying even 10 rupes to a garbage picker ya allah laanat hai in kamzarf mardoodon pey:

September 27, 2007
New Delhi Journal
Picking Up Trash by Hand, and Yearning for Dignity
By AMELIA GENTLEMAN
NEW DELHI — After a bad day at work, Manorama Begum can hardly keep from vomiting. After a good day, she is merely disinclined to eat for a few hours, until the stench has receded from her nostrils and her fingernails have been scrubbed clean.

A garbage collector in India’s capital, Ms. Begum is one of 300,000 little-seen workers who perform a vital role for the city: rifling through the detritus of modern life, recycling anything of worth and carefully disposing of the rest.

More than 95 percent of New Delhi has no formal system of house-to-house garbage collection, so it falls to the city’s ragpickers, one of India’s poorest and most marginalized groups, to provide this basic service. They are not paid by the state, relying instead on donations from the communities they serve and on meager profits from the sale of discarded items.

But after centuries of submissive silence, the waste collectors are beginning to demand respect.

On Oct. 2, Gandhi’s birthday, the Delhi state government will make a small but significant concession. In response to pressure from a ragpickers’ union, it will supply about 6,000 with protective gloves, boots and aprons.

For now, though, they still pick through refuse — shards of glass smeared with the remains of yesterday’s dinner, broken shoes mixed in with rotting meat — with bare hands.

This is the first time the government has made any effort to recognize this band of essential workers, and the moment will be marked with a celebration near the city’s Gandhi memorial.

“Looking after rubbish, anywhere in the world, is not dignified,” said J. K. Dadoo, the secretary of Delhi’s Environment Ministry. “The very fact that we have acknowledged that we need to look after their health is a tremendous acknowledgment of their dignity.”

The waste collectors are underwhelmed by the move. They do not want gloves, they say. They want wages, pensions, health care, uniforms that they hope will discourage police harassment, education for their children and decent housing.

The waste disposal system here is informal yet highly organized. Its capacity to recycle plastics and paper is efficient beyond the dreams of the most progressive recycling nations in the West. In a society where hundreds of millions live in desperate poverty, everything has a value and nothing is redundant. Most strikingly, the city’s neglect of those who perform this service is typical of a much broader blindness toward those excluded from India’s blossoming economy.

Ms. Begum, 35, learns much about humanity during her daily rounds of 350 government apartments occupied by low-ranking state employees in south Delhi. Sifting through the onion peels, chickpeas and half-eaten chapatis, she can tell which families are struggling and which are feeling flush. From her fleeting encounters with them every morning, she knows which households consist of good people and which she would rather avoid.

There are the hard-up families, who save their plastic milk cartons to sell to passing dealers for a few extra rupees. There are the generous ones, like those who recently donated money for Ms. Begum’s 16-year-old daughter’s wedding. There are the mean-spirited, who never give the expected monthly donation of 10 rupees, or 25 cents, she needs to feed her four children.

“If everyone paid me, I’d earn 3,500 rupees,” she said, about $88. “I never even get 1,500,” about $38.

She has other ways of gleaning a return for her work. Finding good food discarded among the litter, she transfers it to a separate plastic bag. Later she will give it to one of the dairies whose cows wander the streets of Delhi, in exchange for milk for her younger children.

The work is exhausting, but she said that after 14 years she had developed stamina.

Her husband, Muhammad Nazir, who works in a more affluent area, said he could see the city’s transformation in the trash he handled. “People are earning more, they are spending more, they are throwing more stuff away now that Delhi has got rich,” he said.

But it remains hard to scrape an existence from the refuse of middle-class life. The couple separate the vegetable matter from plastic bags (about 2 to 3 cents per 2.2 pounds), newspapers (2 to 3 cents) and glass bottles (about 18 cents), then take the salable items for sorting in their nearby slum, where the middleman is based. On average, they each earn 30 to 50 rupees a day, about 76 cents to $1.26.

In a home made from items salvaged on their rounds (the walls lined with flattened cardboard boxes; the ceiling patched with automobile floor mats), they express bitterness about their lives. “It is the poverty that makes us do this work,” Ms. Begum said. “If I had an alternative, I wouldn’t be doing it. Who would like to collect garbage?”

At a meeting of ragpickers organized by a support group called Chintan, the government’s plan was met with little satisfaction. Several people told of beatings by police officers suspicious of their presence in residential areas in the early morning. Some said the city authorities refused to grant them space for sorting recyclable goods, and constantly harassed them to move on.

“They are providing us with gloves and boots just so we don’t get sick and stop working,” Mr. Nazir said. “If we stop, who is going to do this work instead of us? They know they won’t find other people who are willing. Within two days the whole city would be stinking and filthy.”

Re: # 160

I think Matlock was being polite and diplomatic since Russian ambassador was sitting right next to him.

Re: # 158
Lot of people would like to take credit for disintegration of former USSR. Of which neo-conservative of US and Pakistan are quite ahead.
Jack Matlock who was a U.S. ambassador to the Soviet Union during the Gorbachev said yesterday that Gorbachev and Russia was mainly responsible for the disintegration. Gorbachev wanted to go in one direction while the former republics wanted to go in another. There was overwhelming opinion in russia that he the republics dont follow better let them separate.

So this is why pakis are all "why can't we get along" now? Pureland is spending 1/5th of what india spends...which means pureland is spending proportionately way higher than india...and all that money is only going to bomb the jihadis, not actually make kashmir part of pureland..

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C09%5C26%5Csto ry_26-9-2007_pg1_11

It says Afghanistan has 50,000 troops besides the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) personnel, Bangladesh 126,500, India 1,316,000, Nepal 69,000, Pakistan 619,000, and Sri Lanka 150,900. About defence expenditure, it says that Bangladesh spends $840 million, India $21.7 billion, Nepal $139 million, Pakistan $4.14 billion and Sri Lanka $686 million per year.

Re: # 156 I agree with Romair: two nations just as two individuals can not be identical. Hence instead of using the word "equal" I use the word "equitable" (thank you). However, a fair equity is not possible unless first there is equality before the law.

Re: # 155

Typical hindu insult but hollow. It were true hadn't we seen the same moulvi rubbing the arrogant nose of armies of 37 nations into the dirt now. Actaully he is making them dig their own graves with their own noses. So there

Re: # 153 " believ that if democracy with in the individuals of a nation is possible then demecracy among nations is also possible. All we need is the rule of law, social justice, and equity. So why not?"

A small adjustment (query first) URSTRULY:

Would not the word equitable be a better choice here than equity?

Now, please read what you said, and explain how this sits squarely in the round hole behind the rationale for Pakistan?

And finally, no two nations can ever be equal - that can NEVER HAPPEN. I repeat never happen. At best there can be an equitable relationship between them - ala USA and Canada (Field Marshall, First Sea Lord, Air Chief Marshall, Romair's pet example). Your thughts on this.

#152 Posted by Urstruly on September 27, 2007 11:53:04 am


it was none other but moulvi in beards and chappals who caused the disintegration of your moral compass, the then superpower USSR.


That's like michael douglas' used condom lying in the dustbin saying it just had sesx with catherine zeta jones..