Do Intercessory Prayers Work?

Re: # 11

How about making God atleast inferable entity from observables??

The admonitions regarding not making Allah falsifiable is what makes it an unbelievable and un-scientific entity that is only used to induce fear in people and make them submit to his blood thirsty demands of killing idolators.

The whole notion of making out of God a scientifically observable entity is purely unscientific and therefore utter nonsense because it ensues from the ignorance of science’s limits. Prays are certainly heard when uttered in a state of humility but not when the ethical line is crossed as Jesus answered Satan, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test (Mathews 4:7).

Such ‘scientific’ studies do exactly that and thus contribute to godlessness.

PM, howdy pal! Long-time no see!

completely agree with this article. the lord works in mysterious ways that we cannot predict or ever comprehend.

we try to manage the world and our lives with prayers sometimes overlooking what practical measures we can take. pakistan is a disaster zone created by people's ignorance and lack of education. but their they either blame evil forces at work or that it is 'Allah's marzi' never do they think that god gave them a brain with which to solve and overcome obstancles. sorry for what seem like an angry and condescending tone, but i am furious with people's lazy mental attitude in pakistan, especially those who have had the privelge of education but still hang on to explain the world in terms of bad nazar and duas.

i have witnessed it with my own eyes. 3 examples i can cite that ocurred in so-called 'educated' circles: hiring a rickety old car full of people for a 2 hour journey over dirt tracks and broken roads. a vehicle on its last legs that breaks down within half an hour of its journery. who is blamed? of course its the evil eye, and when we got home the house was infused with the smoky burning cinders to get rid of evil demons that may have caused us the ill omen. not once was ill judgement or a bad choice on the part of driver raised as a possible reason for not being able to reach our destination. same thing happened when my baby fell ill due to poor hygiene around the house. duas were read, potions were given, but my pleading at improving hygiene was ignored. another gob-smacking accident just waiting to happen was when at an awards ceremony in lahore a so called 'red carpet' which was rolled up the stairs on to the stage kept slipping down when people tried to tread the stairs. no one saw it as a hazard or that it needed to be pinned down. i wamted to pull the carpet away rather than see people keep trippping up on it and looking foolish. but the presence of the carpet scrap which happened to be red, made the organisers feel that they had added a bit of glamour to the event. to me, arriving from the uk, it looked lazy sloppy and dangerous.

now on another note: if I too were given $2.4 million dollars (or roughly $10 Million dollars in todays money) .... I will show you anything......prove anything.....including that you might not possibly be a sindhi! 8-()

tut, tut, tut (finger wagging icon) Mansur stop transfering your bed-dreams onto the "pathan" maulvi, I mean "During the service, the maulvi often alluded to what goodies were on offer in heaven. The promise of streams of honey and milk was standard ware. Some days he would enthusiastically describe the garments the virgins would wear as they lolled beside the streams. These lovely beauties were supposedly dressed in 7 layers of garments, which nevertheless, were transparent! At that young age I wasn't too clear why the mullah was so excited about this visual prospect.

now, now, we all know the maulvi esp the pathan ones are into serious greco-roman fantasies.

Mansur saab,

You forgot to mention another study by the same professor. he trained several dogs to jump over a hoop when he said "Dha". He cut off. of course surgically, one leg of each dog and gain the dogs jumped. he cut the second, and the third and the digs some how managed. he cut of the fourth leg and none could jump.

The professor wrote the conclusion in Harward Journal of Animal Behaviour, when all legs are cut off the dogs become deaf,

Your article is pathetic, the study is a correlational study, there is no causality assumed.

The paryers work because the patient knows that there are so many people whom he knows and are lose to wish him well, gives him an incentive to live. The hospital staff will also behave better if they know the patient is somebody, increasing the care and understanding.

That is the machanism, the causal factor that creates tyhe positive effects of prayer.

I recall from my decade old days in statistical methds, there is a 100 year long correlational data showing pig iron production in England is correlated to the number of pigs.

You have been fooled by the correlation, Hraward and good research, there are professors every where who will do anything to get research grants.

I think praying is good.By repeating small sentances , we order our sub-conscious mind to behave the way we want!

Kaal, I'm sure you're not serious!
Actually, now I finally know you're not serious. :-)

The key word was intercessory!

What Mahesh Yogi and any number of TM-practitioners have been about for decades now, is MEDITATION, such as is premised on the 'belief' that increasing the net positive forces in the universe will have positive outcomes. Though this is not quite hard science, it at least doesn't defy logic. (Moreover, as even you point out, its effectiveness is supported by empirical studies.)

Now lets examine the logic of the intercessory-type prayer. In effect, the devotee is beseeching an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good Being to act according to his (the supplicant's) will! Like, what gives!?! Fancy me telling Einstein how to solve a quantum mechanics problem!

The reason prayer has, in fact, found to work for those that prayer for themselves, is simply that faith (a certain state of consciousness) can, as the man said, move mountains. And qi forces, one might add! This may have nothing at all to do with a supernatural Being listening in to caller-requests on the air. Auto-suggestion and optimism are proven cure-alls even for atheists.

Sindhi, you are questioning faith, the true and the eternal, based on scientific hocus pocus, which changes everyday and has nothing constant at its core.

In fact, more and more leading scientists are realizing the limits of their work. Many are scampering onto the bandwagon of religion (before it is too late for them, and for others).

Since 1993, every year Mahesh Yogi has been organizing global prayers in order to heal the earth and benefit earth-dwellers. Empirical research carried out by a well-funded consortium of Columbia University, Oxford University, University of Tokyo, and the Asian Institute of Technology has established beyond any doubt that these prayer sessions - five hour long, each - directly lowered crime rates, reduced noise pollution, improved employment statistics, and spiked reports of sufi dance sightings for at least two days following the prayers in every city in which such prayers were held.

If scientists are right, you get nothing more than what everyone will get. If we religionists are right, you are in BIG trouble for questioning the power of prayer for others.

Excellent article.

Ask Naqshabandi if constant duas would help his Sheikh Osama to out live Bush??

http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=375&C=31