Army and the President

zeemax #174 see #181 below - this is why the rule of law is so important, and i hope you see my point now. and now you can educate hamidm and urstruly. And they can educate two more. And so on and so on until we have reached out to every last Pakistani, i.e. general "i am above the law" musharraf himself. "No general left behind" should be the motto.

hamidm #168 write if the desertion occurs on the battlfield, the the nicety of a court martial is not necessary ..........

I hear there is a vacancy for you now that Alberto Gonzalez, who held similar views, has left.

"If Jihadi take over Pakistan, I would be the first one asking for independent Sindh and would seek assistance from any one who is willing. At that point, I would ask the Indian army and if needed, the US army in to the country."...

In a fit of schizophrenia altaph paiyee has already asked india to rescue him from evil pakistani's....and now GA sindhi's are singing the same tune ...alchohol must work the same way on pakistani cerebrums regardless of ethnicity.

yesterday I posted and article about old mcPaki and his vegetable patch. Now the article's link is gone. Of course, they forgot to delete the actual article.direct link

Re: # 173

This is an interesting take - i.e they are criminals.

So is this a gigantic law&Order Situation? When did it become one?

Personally, I think nothing much will come out of it - this is all a play to confuse the Yanks in afghanistan, so that pak army does not do anything - and the surrender of the army personnel is real funny.

All of the guy who gave up the fight were people escorting Supplies. So along with the soldiers, all of the SUPPLIES Vanished. Come on guys are you seriously wanting the world to buy this story! The Pak Army and the Estblishment is upto its ears in mischeif, and is supplying the taliban and the Al Qaeda this way.

This is, to paraphrase sadna, another ruse by the Pak army, another form of blackmail and subterfuge.

But hey its a great charade!

zee, dash:

Thanks for the answer. I'll check the link.

#171 Posted by hamidm2 ,

hamidm no. Dr. Israr is not my guru. I think he's way too far-fetched, almost delusional. Though I do admire his commitment, but that's about all.

majumdar#123:

I agree with you regarding the strength of the Pakistani state and the army and its ability to withstand the jihadi threat. But I do not believe that your comparison with India holds. I believe that there is a lot more support for the jihadis in the Pakistani army personnel and the public at large than exists in the Indian army and public for the Kashmiri insurgents.

hamidm, tahmed32

"Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct" ......... if the desertion occurs on the battlfield, the the nicety of a court martial is not necessary ..........

How's that any different from my favoured beheadings? It's just the guy on the other side ... no?

I think the point that I made is still not clear to Asadi. Let me try it again. You cannot let a country (be it Pakistan or any other) fall in to the hand of these criminals. That creates a situation where all have to put hands together to eliminate them. At that point, mere political or non lethal options are not going to work very far. After controlling a country, these criminals or Havayoon will have state power behind them and would be hard to remove by just diplomatic actions.

Taliban would still be leading the Afghanistan. It was only an outside force that removed them from the power. It is like no amount of diplomatic persuasion was going to work against the Nazis.

There is a thread in some deranged leftists and progressives that these jihadi are nationalist and they are fighting for the national rights under Islamic ideological umbrella, far from the truth and a very opportunistic intellectual construct. These Jihadis have no idea what nationalism is and they don’t represent the emerging capital in the countries they are operating. How could anyone in Pakistan call these criminal the champion of the national rights and capitalism? They are against both.

It is not the Pak army that has chosen to fight them. Havayoons were given ample opportunity to take their fight to Afghanistan but they chose the tribal area because they want Islamic Emarate of Waziristan there. In a situation like this, I can’t blame the army for attacking its own citizens because the army did not start this and has been circumspect in dealing with them. (This possibly could be a game by the Pak army to bring the US armies in the tribal areas. We will deal with that when we cross that bridge.)

#166 Posted by dost_mittar

Do Pakistani army regiments have distinct ethnic groups? especially are Punjabis and Pashtoons in separate units? I would suspect that it would be advisable for the army not to send Pashtoons to fight in the tribal areas.

Dost, may I refer you to Ayaz Amir's article of today in Dawn.

It is titled "Advantages of a ‘peasant’ army".

This will answer your question.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

Re: # 167

zeemax,

... thank you ! ........ i don't think your, and dr israr's, wet dream will ever come true, but thank you anyway for the kind thought ........ i couldn't believe the bug-eyed idiot's ranting on ary yesterday - the man actually believes that the whole world will be conquered by forces riding out of waziristan ! ........ is he your guru ?

#165 Posted by majumdar,

For instance the Indian Army has been fighting insurgency in J&K for 17 years and Nagaland for even longer..

Oh I see now where the difference in the Indian perception and the Pakistani perception lies re insurgencies.

India is what .. 27 provinces? Pakistan is just four. NWFP and Northern areas bordering FATA control practically all the water, and most electricity. Punjab being neighbour understands Pushtoons better (and vice versa) than anyone else and will go with them. There's no question about that.

Pakistan is not India. Pakistan is very small in comparison.

Re: # 166

DM check these pages out for your answer

(a) Punjab regiment http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/punjab.htm

(b)baloch http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/baluch.htm

(c) Frontier force regiment http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/frontier.htm

(d)Azad Kashmir Regiment http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/azadkash.htm

(e)Sind Regiment http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/sind.htm

(f)NLI regiment http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/northli.htm

(g) SSG http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/inf-pak/ssg.htm

(h) Presidents Body Guard http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/guards/pak.htm

It makes interesting reading

also see http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/army/ for a more detailed information on the development of the army and recruitment situations (current one)

Re: # 162

tahmed,

......... i am not calling for anything ........ military law calls for execution for desertion in time of war ....... article 85 of the us uniform code of military justice reads: "Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct" ......... if the desertion occurs on the battlfield, the the nicety of a court martial is not necessary ..........

#162 Posted by tahmed32,

Well said ... but I have a soft corner for hamidm for some unexplained reason. I'm sure I can save him when his head is on the line. Maybe he'll say 'Thank You!'