unflinching idealism ... since 1997 archivessitemapabouthelpfeedback
ideas, identities and interactions
  • Home
  • InFocus
  • Themes
  • Columns
  • Articles
  • Fiction
  • iLogs
  • Gallery
  • Unplugged
  • Writers
  • Interactors
  • Tags
Sign in | Join Chowk
web chowk
  • Article
  • Interact
  • read writer comments
  • add to favorites
  • get rss feeds
  • print
  • email this link

Army and the President

Yasser Latif Hamdani October 9, 2007

Latest comments   flat   threaded   latest   oldest   all
listing 1-16   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

#1 Posted by bjkumar on October 9, 2007 9:03:58 am
I do not wish to make light of this interesting article which only a lawyer could have written – so many legal twists and turns it introduces!

But it introduces those for a good reason! Manto has the khairiat of the Pakistani awaam at heart – so he does not wish the awaam to become depressed!

The simplistic facts are as follows:

(1) The coup (in 1999) was inherently illegal and in violation of the constitution – by kicking out a civilian leadership at the power of the gun! There is no getting away from that reality!

(2) The coup does not get legitimized by simply turning around and tinkering with the constitution retrospectively. The day civilian leaders get legitimate power in Pakistan will be the day that an effort will start to get rid of all the legal indignities heaped on that document since 1999. (Similar to the 42nd Amendment to the Indian constitution done by Indira Gandhi)

(3) Mushy knows that simple fact, too. Therefore, he can NEVER relinquish real power – even if he wanted to. Clearly, he does not want to – because as it is he is a target – so he needs the shield of power to protect himself. If he can also do some good for the country by forcing it along the secular path (in spite of the clear ambivalence of the awaam along those lines), from his viewpoint, that will be a good thing!

The question remains – why does the Mushy go to all these troubles?!

Why not come out openly and redeclare himself as the “chief executive” like the last time around?

Some people say that’s because he is in reality honest, uncorrupt, and also democratic “at heart”. Others say, that there is a woman involved – whose last name matches a very popular sub continental staple diet!

I know, I know - look deep enough into any problem and you can always find a woman at the root of it! :(

reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#2 Posted by MantoLives on October 9, 2007 9:15:38 am
Bjkumar do you maybe have a learning disability?

I am questioning the legality of this election in very clear English language ... But seems like you are not good at reading stuff or growing up.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#3 Posted by bjkumar on October 9, 2007 9:34:04 am

My dear Yasser, the purpose of #1 was not to alienate you or drive you up the wall! I am sorry if that ended up being the (unintended) result.

I am not saying that you are legitimizing the Mushy or what looks like his latest triumph. Do not get me wrong. After all, there is a reason you put "elected" within quotes.

I also do not question that your intentions are benign for your country.

My problem is not with the thrust of your arguments but the fact that you have to bring in all these "legal" topics - and technicalities of the election, to make a point which is - at its core - the simplest possible - as explained in #1.

What more do you want from me?! Become a lawyer myself?!
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#4 Posted by masadi on October 9, 2007 9:36:25 am
Of course people worshippers have morals that would make a Alcapone develop a halo around his head. This person is not against a military dictator seeking "elections" from assemblies under his gun, he is not against that in principle because guess what "the Ataturk (anoter sob)" did it. And why does he worship the Ataturk, it is because the sob in chief the MFJ where the M stands for Mama....you got it, worshipped the Ataturk. In fact he played the Ata Turk at home just like people "play" Captain Kirk (of Star Trek fame). Military dictatorship remnants of which today divide Turkey has harmed that nation just as it has harmed Pakistan. We need people's voices and a people's government. We do not need veiled support of dictators if they happen to agree with your agenda, the kind of politics of Ata Turk and MFJ. WE need the voice of the people we need someone the likes of ZAB...

reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#5 Posted by bjkumar on October 9, 2007 9:47:14 am

#4 Masadi

Hey, hey, hey, Masadi sahib!

That name-calling by you of the Manto was totally uncalled for!

If you have a personal problem with Yasser, take it elsewhere. This piece is about a very relevant contemporary topic so let us discuss it like mature adults that we all are! And there is no need to bring in Mr. Jinnah’s name when Yasser has carefully abstained from doing so himself!

The simple reality is that what Mushy did (back in 1999) was not kosher per law. However, that was eight years ago and dragging all that dirty linen into full public view at this time is not good for anybody. Keep the “ghar ki izzat” inside the house, no?!

I think the Ataturk model was a good one for that country and if, in Pakistan, the Mushy wishes to emulate that man – rather than the Aurangzeb – hey, I am all for it!

And I happen to like Captain Kirk (of the Star Trek fame) – in his nineteen-sixties edition (but not of the present chubbier vintage).


reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#6 Posted by masadi on October 9, 2007 9:52:43 am
Re #5, there is no "name calling" of "the Manto" in my post #4, I just take him up on his immorality of offering a veiled support of the dictator's tricks just because the "AtaTurk" did it. The only reason Manto supports the AtaTurk is because of the MFJ's deep admiration for him. My name calling is reserved for the AT and MFJ both immoral and anti-people dictators...
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#7 Posted by bjkumar on October 9, 2007 10:03:01 am
#6 Masadi sahib

Technically you may be correct. But come on, in view of how close Yasser feels to Mr. Jinnah, there is little difference between attacking one and attacking the other.

It is time to show some sensitivity on this issue!

Now, regarding Mr. Musharraf - it is important to keep in mind what an alternative to him would have been - had he not pulled this latest election stuff (which, in fairness, he did not HAVE to! So give him credit for that, too.)

Would you be happier living under a mullahcracy? I doubt it.

Would a "civilian" dispensation be better at fighting the terrorists? Again, I seriously doubt it. It is not the most efficient set-up, you know!

I think Pakistani people should return to dealing with their systemic weaknesses (intolerance of other viewpoints, taking the short-cut of force to "settle" issues, treating women as less than equal, not valuing education and emancipation and empowering of the same, not keeping religion in its proper place, etc.) rather than hoping that electing the "right" leader will solve the problems.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#8 Posted by masadi on October 9, 2007 10:12:41 am
The uncertainty and fluidity of any alternative system any "..ocracy" would be better than this status quo of military domination of Pakistan and its institutions, which has been killing this nation slowly, only the carcass is left, they have consumed all the meat. The alternative system not so institutionally vested in its domination of society can be tackled more easily by the people.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#9 Posted by bjkumar on October 9, 2007 11:11:08 am

#8 Masadi sahib

The reality of Pakistani economy does not bear out your "carcass" theory! It appears to be thriving (whatever the type of "democratic" setup). India's is the same way. There will always be a few individual spots of problems.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#10 Posted by chaltahai on October 9, 2007 11:22:57 am
Pakistan is to grow at 7% this year..same as the last 2 years..keep Mushy or else.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#11 Posted by VRV on October 9, 2007 12:25:22 pm
M Asadi,

Good points!
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#12 Posted by arjun3 on October 9, 2007 1:03:11 pm
#10 Posted by chaltahai on October 9, 2007 11:22:57 am


Pakistan is to grow at 7% this year..same as the last 2 years..keep Mushy or else.


or else someone ELSE will make the call to fake the GDP numbers...

benazir or musharraf: different leash on the same old dog.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#13 Posted by IB on October 9, 2007 2:04:35 pm
Yaar Manto , how could you ? Mush is the what MAJ is Uniform - or atleast close to his standards!
I mean he atleast tried on issues like equality for all , freedom of economy, liberalism, economy, educational reforms, religious bias, cultural bias etc..
Pakistan is at the right path - thanks to Mushraff !
Pity is , Mush is in uniform but so-what? People are seriouslly not intrested in this , law and constitutional talk ? and how could you come up with this piece against Mushraff?
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#14 Posted by teshah on October 9, 2007 3:12:48 pm
Mush promised to take off uniform before taking oath of the President. What if he does not take an oath again as he has already taken oath twice for the post? Does it not look absurd keeping on repeating the oath each time you are granted extension on a post? This would have perhaps made some sense if Mush had resigned before his election as president. 'Dil harazaada te hujtaan de dher'.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#15 Posted by tahmed32 on October 9, 2007 3:59:19 pm
#14 teshah: There is a saying - "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Mush has lied over and over again. His word is not worth one conterfeit rupee.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#16 Posted by okhla99 on October 9, 2007 4:28:36 pm
Pity the nation that acclaims the bull as hero, and that deems the glittering conqueror bountiful.
Pity the nation whose statesman is a fox, whose philosopher is a juggler, and whose art is the art of patching and mimicking.
Pity the nation whose sages are dumb with years and whose strong men are yet in the cradle.

Khalil Gibran
The garden of the Prophet (1934)
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
listing 1-16   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Interact Index

    #198 arjun3
    #197 bulleya
    #196 GT
    #195 GT
    #194 HP
    #193 borivili_express
    #192 dost_mittar
    #191 dost_mittar
    #190 tahmed32
    #189 arjun3
    #188 borivili_express
    #187 masadi
    #186 arjun3
    #185 tahmed32
    #184 tahmed32
    #183 tahmed32
    #182 tahmed32
    #181 tahmed32
    #180 cliftonbridge
    #179 arjun3
    #178 Dash_Dot
    #177 dost_mittar
    #176 zeemax
    #175 dost_mittar
    #174 zeemax
    #173 HP
    #172 zeemax
    #171 hamidm2
    #170 zeemax
    #169 Dash_Dot
    #168 hamidm2
    #167 zeemax
    #166 dost_mittar
    #165 majumdar
    #164 tahmed32
    #163 zeemax
    #162 tahmed32
    #161 arjun3
    #160 majumdar
    #159 hamidm2
    #158 hamidm2
    #157 zeemax
    #156 majumdar
    #155 zeemax
    #154 zeemax
    #153 zeemax
    #152 tahmed32
    #151 jayp
    #150 majumdar
    #149 tahmed32
    #148 zeemax
    #147 majumdar
    #146 tahmed32
    #145 zeemax
    #144 jayp
    #143 tahmed32
    #142 zeemax
    #141 Dash_Dot
    #140 tahmed32
    #139 zeemax
    #138 tahmed32
    #137 masadi
    #136 majumdar
    #135 zeemax
    #134 majumdar
    #133 tahmed32
    #132 Dash_Dot
    #131 majumdar
    #130 tahmed32
    #129 jayp
    #128 jayp
    #127 zeemax
    #126 majumdar
    #125 zeemax
    #124 zeemax
    #123 majumdar
    #122 HP
    #121 Pardesi
    #120 hamidm2
    #119 arjun3
    #118 arjun3
    #117 masadi
    #116 masadi
    #115 masadi
    #114 Urstruly
    #113 tahmed32
    #112 ferozk
    #111 ferozk
    #110 zeemax
    #109 majumdar
    #108 IB
    #107 IB
    #106 IB
    #105 VRV
    #104 tahmed32
    #103 IB
    #102 hamidm2
    #101 harish_hyd
    #100 majumdar
    #99 harish_hyd
    #98 harish_hyd
    #97 majumdar
    #96 masadi
    #95 harish_hyd
    #94 masadi
    #93 masadi
    #92 masadi
    #91 majumdar
    #90 masadi
    #89 ahmedmadani
    #88 ahmedmadani
    #87 HP
    #86 majumdar
    #85 ahmedmadani
    #84 ahmedmadani
    #83 bulleya
    #82 arjun3
    #81 arjun3
    #80 jay226
    #79 jay226
    #78 jay226
    #77 masadi
    #76 masadi
    #75 masadi
    #74 MantoLives
    #73 MantoLives
    #72 shishapa
    #71 Dash_Dot
    #70 MantoLives
    #69 shishapa
    #68 MantoLives
    #67 shishapa
    #66 shishapa
    #65 Dash_Dot
    #64 tahmed32
    #63 MantoLives
    #62 MantoLives
    #61 shishapa
    #60 IB
    #59 MantoLives
    #58 shishapa
    #57 MantoLives
    #56 shishapa
    #55 MantoLives
    #54 shishapa
    #53 MantoLives
    #52 shishapa
    #51 MantoLives
    #50 tahmed32
    #49 tahmed32
    #48 MantoLives
    #47 majumdar
    #46 MantoLives
    #45 jayp
    #44 majumdar
    #43 MantoLives
    #42 MantoLives
    #41 jayp
    #40 jayp
    #39 jayp
    #38 anil
    #37 majumdar
    #36 HP
    #35 bjkumar
    #34 majumdar
    #33 bjkumar
    #32 HP
    #31 majumdar
    #30 Qaiser
    #29 bjkumar
    #28 majumdar
    #27 ahmedmadani
    #26 tahmed32
    #25 HP
    #24 hamidm2
    #23 shishapa
    #22 tahmed32
    #21 bjkumar
    #20 MantoLives
    #19 MantoLives
    #18 bjkumar
    #17 okhla99
    #16 okhla99
    #15 tahmed32
    #14 teshah
    #13 IB
    #12 arjun3
    #11 VRV
    #10 chaltahai
    #9 bjkumar
    #8 masadi
    #7 bjkumar
    #6 masadi
    #5 bjkumar
    #4 masadi
    #3 bjkumar
    #2 MantoLives
    #1 bjkumar

Latest Interacts

  • nb: Parthaab, you remind me... Rape Survivor Families Struggle
  • jayp: Re: # 43 sharmeen, What are... ‘Dustbin of history’ or
  • jayp: Re: # 19 tahmed, Paki civil... Rape Survivor Families Struggle
  • nb: I never knew until... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal
  • _arjun30: heh... ‘Pakistan loses $1.5bn due... ‘Dustbin of history’ or
  • _arjun30: #64 Posted by... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal
  • laddu: The more Islamist thinking... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal
  • _arjun30: #48 Posted by... ‘Dustbin of history’ or

THEMES

  • Pakistan's Struggle for Democracy
  • The Indian Story
  • Indo-Pak Relations
  • Personal Narratives
  • Religion Today
  • War on Terror
  • Role of Media
  • Call for Social Change
  • Hold Them Accountable
  • Environment and Us
  • Way of Life
more »

Top 5 Articles This Week

  • Popular
  • ‘Dustbin of history’ or ‘history of sorts’
  • Terrorism Accused: Is Legal Aid Justified?
  • Rape Survivor Families Struggle Against Odds
  • Better Times
  • Love at Shara Zawia
  • Featured
  • There are a Lot of Monkeys
  • White Charade
  • Words of a Woman
  • FOX News and the Smelly Shoes
  • Dilemmas of Creative Children
  • 10 Years Ago
  • Lingered
  • Selective Islam in Pakistan
  • Between the Devil and the Deep Sea
  • Bihari Refugees
  • Dow and NASDAQ set new records

Write on Chowk Interact Guidelines Privacy policy Terms Contact

Copyright © 1997 - 2008 chowk.com. All Rights Reserved
Reproduction of material on any www.chowk.com pages without prior written permissions is strictly prohibited