Neoliberalism and Madrassas: An Unholy Connection
Ahmar Mahboob October 26, 2007
#23 Posted by masadi on October 27, 2007 5:18:20 am
IslamIslam writes "If you are talking about the attacks in Sri Lanka, it is not the RSS schools in India that indoctrinated them into becoming suicide bombers."
Maybe not but they were Hindu pioneers of suicide bombings, supported by the Indian Govt, long before the phenomenon was seen in Pakistan.
Then he writes "Now, you are not going to deny Koranic verses about killing the kaffirs, are you?
While you are at it, since there were no loudspeakers in Mo's time, why do your mullahs use loudspeakers to call the Faithful to prayers?
By extension, suicide bombs are also sanctioned in the Koran"
These have to be the most absurd line of reasoning that can only come out of a retard. First, there are NO verses calling for indiscriminate/unjust killing of anyone, all those verses that have formed part of your arsenal against Islam (i.e. were not discovered by you but fed to you) have a context and operate within the larger principle of not attacking or killing anyone who is not trying to kill you because of your religion. Second just because loud speakers (technology) were not present 1400 years ago does not mean that suicide was not present, and it does not mean that killing of innocents was not present- both are condemned by the Quran.
Then he says "How come then the suicide bombers in Spain, London, Glasgow, etc., are all Muslims?"
If the "war on terror" was against Hindu terrorists or instead of Iraq, India had been bombed to the stone age by the "coalition of the willing", you'd see a similar dynamic, then those caught rightly or wrongly for those acts would have been Hindus. Only damn fools, the like you you will ignore the entire situation in which those attacks occurred in order to try to understand them.
Then he concludes "Yes, the-Great-Satan-made-me-do-it defense! "
It's no defense. America happens to be incharge of the global economy, has its military all over the place, recently attacked and occupied Iraq for absolutely false reasons and has been supporting the barbaric occupation of Palestinians by the Israelis, it has been disrespecting the borders of countries, sanctioning them at will and killing their civilians- you mean to tell me that all this will produce no consequences and it will not piss of certain people and harden others? You must be a total damn fool
Maybe not but they were Hindu pioneers of suicide bombings, supported by the Indian Govt, long before the phenomenon was seen in Pakistan.
Then he writes "Now, you are not going to deny Koranic verses about killing the kaffirs, are you?
While you are at it, since there were no loudspeakers in Mo's time, why do your mullahs use loudspeakers to call the Faithful to prayers?
By extension, suicide bombs are also sanctioned in the Koran"
These have to be the most absurd line of reasoning that can only come out of a retard. First, there are NO verses calling for indiscriminate/unjust killing of anyone, all those verses that have formed part of your arsenal against Islam (i.e. were not discovered by you but fed to you) have a context and operate within the larger principle of not attacking or killing anyone who is not trying to kill you because of your religion. Second just because loud speakers (technology) were not present 1400 years ago does not mean that suicide was not present, and it does not mean that killing of innocents was not present- both are condemned by the Quran.
Then he says "How come then the suicide bombers in Spain, London, Glasgow, etc., are all Muslims?"
If the "war on terror" was against Hindu terrorists or instead of Iraq, India had been bombed to the stone age by the "coalition of the willing", you'd see a similar dynamic, then those caught rightly or wrongly for those acts would have been Hindus. Only damn fools, the like you you will ignore the entire situation in which those attacks occurred in order to try to understand them.
Then he concludes "Yes, the-Great-Satan-made-me-do-it defense! "
It's no defense. America happens to be incharge of the global economy, has its military all over the place, recently attacked and occupied Iraq for absolutely false reasons and has been supporting the barbaric occupation of Palestinians by the Israelis, it has been disrespecting the borders of countries, sanctioning them at will and killing their civilians- you mean to tell me that all this will produce no consequences and it will not piss of certain people and harden others? You must be a total damn fool
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#22 Posted by hamidm2 on October 27, 2007 5:12:46 am
madrassa madness
SWAT, Oct 26: Militants on Friday publicly executed four law-enforcement personnel in a village, 16km west of Mingora ............ The men, said to be in their mid-20s, had their hands tied together. They were pushed to the ground on the main Matta-Mingora road and had their heads chopped off...........
MIRANSHAH: Masked men kidnapped two Christian janitors in front of Miranshah Headquarters Hospital in North Waziristan on Friday, eyewitnesses said. Naeem Masih and Shahbaz Masih, both janitors at the hospital, were abducted “right from the main gate of the hospital”,
............hindoos beware! ..... as soon as these boys are done here they are coming after you
#21 Posted by masadi on October 27, 2007 5:03:03 am
rf writes "End note, it seems u suffer from epistemic arrogance thus the use of rude replies."
There is no arrogance involved, your post was a bunch of lazy BS, if you had reason enough to argue with the author then instead of asking him to do your work (where you produced a bunch of question out of we know where, without any though to connect those ideas involved) and calling his work a "fabrication", you should have presented some reasons, as I did when I disagreed with him. He has confused correlation with causation, for that you need to take note of other factors, the before and after (history) as well as other confounders that might lead to false conclusion and there are many in that case. That the IMF policies by concentrating poverty and helping the rich at the expense of the poor and reducing public services have indeed served a latent function of making people default to the religious institution for refuge, the rank and file of the madrassa goers are low income, however concluding from that that the IMF caused it is naive- but unlike you I present reasons and not a bunch of BS questions that you haven't thought about yourself...
There is no arrogance involved, your post was a bunch of lazy BS, if you had reason enough to argue with the author then instead of asking him to do your work (where you produced a bunch of question out of we know where, without any though to connect those ideas involved) and calling his work a "fabrication", you should have presented some reasons, as I did when I disagreed with him. He has confused correlation with causation, for that you need to take note of other factors, the before and after (history) as well as other confounders that might lead to false conclusion and there are many in that case. That the IMF policies by concentrating poverty and helping the rich at the expense of the poor and reducing public services have indeed served a latent function of making people default to the religious institution for refuge, the rank and file of the madrassa goers are low income, however concluding from that that the IMF caused it is naive- but unlike you I present reasons and not a bunch of BS questions that you haven't thought about yourself...
#20 Posted by dost_mittar on October 27, 2007 4:26:37 am
Adi chhutti saari, mian makkhi maari!
[The school has half-day today, the Maulvi will have nothing to do]
I was reminded of this verse we used to rhyme in unison in our primary school whenever the school unexpectedly ended after the half-time recess. This was in the late forties in a government primary school. But the rhyme suggests to me that in the not-too-distant past, madrassas and Maulvis were used for secular education in Punjab by everyone and not just Muslims. Come to think of it, prominent Hindus such as Raja Ram Mohan Roy are said to have attended Madrassas. So, Madrassas as a place of primarily religious training, let alone military training, is perhaps a new phenomenon.
[The school has half-day today, the Maulvi will have nothing to do]
I was reminded of this verse we used to rhyme in unison in our primary school whenever the school unexpectedly ended after the half-time recess. This was in the late forties in a government primary school. But the rhyme suggests to me that in the not-too-distant past, madrassas and Maulvis were used for secular education in Punjab by everyone and not just Muslims. Come to think of it, prominent Hindus such as Raja Ram Mohan Roy are said to have attended Madrassas. So, Madrassas as a place of primarily religious training, let alone military training, is perhaps a new phenomenon.
#19 Posted by rf786 on October 27, 2007 12:49:52 am
Re: # 15
Masadi sahib,
Author of this fabrication has chosen to show a statistical relationship btw maderassa growth and IMF SAP. Taking the same line of argument one can draw comparisons btw the growth of drugs, klashinkof culture and maderassas. Now are the Maderassas the causation of the other two evils? Statistically speaking one can make that conclusion, but is that the correct assumption? Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is for sure, there is nothing wrong with my statistical comparisons.
Clinging to fixed ideas and searching for narratives that confirm those biases has become a favorite pass time for many muslims (Pakis), introspection and honest inquisition has become rare.
End note, it seems u suffer from epistemic arrogance thus the use of rude replies.
Masadi sahib,
Author of this fabrication has chosen to show a statistical relationship btw maderassa growth and IMF SAP. Taking the same line of argument one can draw comparisons btw the growth of drugs, klashinkof culture and maderassas. Now are the Maderassas the causation of the other two evils? Statistically speaking one can make that conclusion, but is that the correct assumption? Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is for sure, there is nothing wrong with my statistical comparisons.
Clinging to fixed ideas and searching for narratives that confirm those biases has become a favorite pass time for many muslims (Pakis), introspection and honest inquisition has become rare.
End note, it seems u suffer from epistemic arrogance thus the use of rude replies.
#18 Posted by iron_mask on October 27, 2007 12:36:04 am
its the silly on chowk.
The numbers of articles which are
(a) inarticulate
(b) illogical
(c) repeat the same old sets of ideas
(d) create the same tu-tu-mai-mai black-white scenarios.
Hey how about getting Hamidm2, atif2 (he has a terrific funny bone), Urstruly (he is a great writer of erotic prose ) and dare I say it the boring old neembu to do the honors here.
Are you listening the Staff- of Chowk
The numbers of articles which are
(a) inarticulate
(b) illogical
(c) repeat the same old sets of ideas
(d) create the same tu-tu-mai-mai black-white scenarios.
Hey how about getting Hamidm2, atif2 (he has a terrific funny bone), Urstruly (he is a great writer of erotic prose ) and dare I say it the boring old neembu to do the honors here.
Are you listening the Staff- of Chowk
#17 Posted by laddu on October 26, 2007 10:43:32 pm
Nonsense,
The Jihadi masters are all well fed, well clothed and well educated - Osama bin laden, Al Zawahiri, all the 'magnificient' 13 , the 7/11 bombers and the rest of Al-Mujahideens and Al-Mansurs and Al-What nots leaders.
These are not poor, madarassa educated but control the madarassas.
Madarassas only provide raw foot soldiers, the zombies who would kill at the first order given on behalf of Allah by these 'educated' Pakistanis and muslims.
The real leadership of these jehadis are in the hands of these 'educated' muslims who finance and run these madarassas.
The Jihadi masters are all well fed, well clothed and well educated - Osama bin laden, Al Zawahiri, all the 'magnificient' 13 , the 7/11 bombers and the rest of Al-Mujahideens and Al-Mansurs and Al-What nots leaders.
These are not poor, madarassa educated but control the madarassas.
Madarassas only provide raw foot soldiers, the zombies who would kill at the first order given on behalf of Allah by these 'educated' Pakistanis and muslims.
The real leadership of these jehadis are in the hands of these 'educated' muslims who finance and run these madarassas.
#16 Posted by ISlamIslam on October 26, 2007 10:16:44 pm
Re masadi #13
[islamislam writes "We don't have Hindus wandering around with suicide belts."
Hindus were one of the pioneers of suicide attacks....]
If you are talking about the attacks in Sri Lanka, it is not the RSS schools in India that indoctrinated them into becoming suicide bombers. Nor were the bombers quoting The Bhagavad Gita or saying "Kali Mata ki Jai" as they set off the bombs....as opposed to "Allahu Akbar", if you get the drift of what I am trying to say here.
[....The Koran has nothing to do with suicide attacks, I challenge you to produce one verse which supports the phenomena....]
The frikking Arabs had no idea about explosives or triggering mechanisms, otherwise there would have been explicit instructions in the Koran as to killing the kaffirs with suicide bombs.
Now, you are not going to deny Koranic verses about killing the kaffirs, are you?
While you are at it, since there were no loudspeakers in Mo's time, why do your mullahs use loudspeakers to call the Faithful to prayers?
By extension, suicide bombs are also sanctioned in the Koran.
[...It has more to do with a group's reaction to real or preceived oppression. The Koran has been with Pakistan for a long time as have been madrassas but suicide bombings in Pakistan are a new phenomena therefore you cannot hold either the Koran or the madrassa as the cause,....]
Okay, it is the Pakistani mindset, not the Islamic mindset. How come then the suicide bombers in Spain, London, Glasgow, etc., are all Muslims?
[....rather it is the direct consequence of the so called US war or terror- yes, the US elite are the cause of producing it by their tactics and policies that deliberately want to perpetuate such things to feed the so-called war on terror, a war without end...]
Yes, the-Great-Satan-made-me-do-it defense!
[islamislam writes "We don't have Hindus wandering around with suicide belts."
Hindus were one of the pioneers of suicide attacks....]
If you are talking about the attacks in Sri Lanka, it is not the RSS schools in India that indoctrinated them into becoming suicide bombers. Nor were the bombers quoting The Bhagavad Gita or saying "Kali Mata ki Jai" as they set off the bombs....as opposed to "Allahu Akbar", if you get the drift of what I am trying to say here.
[....The Koran has nothing to do with suicide attacks, I challenge you to produce one verse which supports the phenomena....]
The frikking Arabs had no idea about explosives or triggering mechanisms, otherwise there would have been explicit instructions in the Koran as to killing the kaffirs with suicide bombs.
Now, you are not going to deny Koranic verses about killing the kaffirs, are you?
While you are at it, since there were no loudspeakers in Mo's time, why do your mullahs use loudspeakers to call the Faithful to prayers?
By extension, suicide bombs are also sanctioned in the Koran.
[...It has more to do with a group's reaction to real or preceived oppression. The Koran has been with Pakistan for a long time as have been madrassas but suicide bombings in Pakistan are a new phenomena therefore you cannot hold either the Koran or the madrassa as the cause,....]
Okay, it is the Pakistani mindset, not the Islamic mindset. How come then the suicide bombers in Spain, London, Glasgow, etc., are all Muslims?
[....rather it is the direct consequence of the so called US war or terror- yes, the US elite are the cause of producing it by their tactics and policies that deliberately want to perpetuate such things to feed the so-called war on terror, a war without end...]
Yes, the-Great-Satan-made-me-do-it defense!
#15 Posted by masadi on October 26, 2007 9:02:54 pm
rf writes to the author "I have a few questions for you"
Of course you are lazy and don't have a clue about it but want to criticize the author nonetheless so you come up with nonsense questions, all the while ignoring the role of the CIA/US in setting up many of these schools, importing indoctrinating literature published in Nebraska, with help from "Saudi Petro Dollars", with tacit approval of the Americans, all for the purpose of fighting a proxy cold war with the Soviets. Once that structure develops it is self perpetuating, especially in a society that spends next to nothing on public services- and here is where the IMF becomes a factor. The madrassas have always been with us and exist in India as well but what they have become now, and where they have become now, is a new phenomena that needs to be studied in the geopolitical context of the region. The IMF is a factor in strengthening the structure of the madrassa, there can be no questions on that whatsoever.
Of course you are lazy and don't have a clue about it but want to criticize the author nonetheless so you come up with nonsense questions, all the while ignoring the role of the CIA/US in setting up many of these schools, importing indoctrinating literature published in Nebraska, with help from "Saudi Petro Dollars", with tacit approval of the Americans, all for the purpose of fighting a proxy cold war with the Soviets. Once that structure develops it is self perpetuating, especially in a society that spends next to nothing on public services- and here is where the IMF becomes a factor. The madrassas have always been with us and exist in India as well but what they have become now, and where they have become now, is a new phenomena that needs to be studied in the geopolitical context of the region. The IMF is a factor in strengthening the structure of the madrassa, there can be no questions on that whatsoever.
#14 Posted by hamidm2 on October 26, 2007 8:59:57 pm
Re: # 13
masadi,
.... if you keep on blaming everything on the US elite you will never be able to find a cure for your impotence ...... trust me, they didn't put anything in your free cheese while you were at howard (or was it prairie view?)- it is all in your head .... get over it!
masadi,
.... if you keep on blaming everything on the US elite you will never be able to find a cure for your impotence ...... trust me, they didn't put anything in your free cheese while you were at howard (or was it prairie view?)- it is all in your head .... get over it!
#13 Posted by masadi on October 26, 2007 8:42:42 pm
islamislam writes "We don't have Hindus wandering around with suicide belts."
Hindus were one of the pioneers of suicide attacks. The Koran has nothing to do with suicide attacks, I challenge you to produce one verse which supports the phenomena. It has more to do with a group's reaction to real or preceived oppression. The Koran has been with Pakistan for a long time as have been madrassas but suicide bombings in Pakistan are a new phenomena therefore you cannot hold either the Koran or the madrassa as the cause, rather it is the direct consequence of the so called US war or terror- yes, the US elite are the cause of producing it by their tactics and policies that deliberately want to perpetuate such things to feed the so-called war on terror, a war without end...
Hamid, I know there are great geo-political manuverings going on in your gut but spare us your moronic BS.
Hindus were one of the pioneers of suicide attacks. The Koran has nothing to do with suicide attacks, I challenge you to produce one verse which supports the phenomena. It has more to do with a group's reaction to real or preceived oppression. The Koran has been with Pakistan for a long time as have been madrassas but suicide bombings in Pakistan are a new phenomena therefore you cannot hold either the Koran or the madrassa as the cause, rather it is the direct consequence of the so called US war or terror- yes, the US elite are the cause of producing it by their tactics and policies that deliberately want to perpetuate such things to feed the so-called war on terror, a war without end...
Hamid, I know there are great geo-political manuverings going on in your gut but spare us your moronic BS.
#12 Posted by ISlamIslam on October 26, 2007 5:54:09 pm
There has been an explosion of private schools in India too.
We don't have Hindus wandering around with suicide belts.
It is the Koran, stupid.
We don't have Hindus wandering around with suicide belts.
It is the Koran, stupid.
#11 Posted by hamidm2 on October 26, 2007 2:58:08 pm
i had kimchee for lunch today .... after coming back to work i felt a little bloated and have had gas since then ..... what caused this:
a) the us elite
b) the south korean lackeys of the us elite
c) the hindoo-zionist-cia axis of evil
d) the imf
e) the world bank
f) the us elite
......... i think the answer is a and e
#10 Posted by jang on October 26, 2007 2:00:35 pm
in short, a new way to blame the other. great job.
#9 Posted by rf786 on October 26, 2007 1:12:05 pm
Mahboob Bhai Salam,
With all due respect, your article is an absolute misrepresentation of statistical data that are being deliberately twisted to confirm the populist view that everything that ills Pakistan is because of the west. Statistically speaking, you would get an F for this fabrication.
I have a few questions for you:
(1) How are Maderssas financed?
(2) What is the correlation btw Maderassa financing and IMF SAP?
(3) What are the absolute amounts of education spending?
(4) How many school girls have been blown up by taliboon?
(5) What is the relationship btw Saudi petrodollars and maderassa growth?
(6) How come maderassas have grown in urban areas?
(7) What is the ratio of Afghan refugee children in Maderassas compared to Pakistani children? This data needs to be analyzed for periods extending from 1970-1980, 1980-1990 and 1990 to present.
With all due respect, your article is an absolute misrepresentation of statistical data that are being deliberately twisted to confirm the populist view that everything that ills Pakistan is because of the west. Statistically speaking, you would get an F for this fabrication.
I have a few questions for you:
(1) How are Maderssas financed?
(2) What is the correlation btw Maderassa financing and IMF SAP?
(3) What are the absolute amounts of education spending?
(4) How many school girls have been blown up by taliboon?
(5) What is the relationship btw Saudi petrodollars and maderassa growth?
(6) How come maderassas have grown in urban areas?
(7) What is the ratio of Afghan refugee children in Maderassas compared to Pakistani children? This data needs to be analyzed for periods extending from 1970-1980, 1980-1990 and 1990 to present.
#8 Posted by Skeptical on October 26, 2007 12:44:36 pm
It is an interesting take but I think one has to take into account the geographical distribution of these Madrassas vis a vis the population density in the respective regions particularly the conservative regions.Because if Madrassas to population ratio is higher in NWFP and Baluchistan while public schools to population is the same or nearly same across the provinces than the religious mindset of the populace is perhaps more responsible rather than lack of public schooling. Moreover one also has to see whether Public schools exist in the near vicinity of majority of Madrassas and whether the growth in Madrassas has actually coincided with the reduction, if any, of the public schools in the same vicinity. After all these factors have been taken into account only then we are in a better position to state that whether neo classical economic program is one of the significant factors behind this phenomenon
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