Neoliberalism and Madrassas: An Unholy Connection

Zeemax sahib,

(Please maintain data integrity :)

Leader on Geo TV website

http://www.geo.tv/geonews/

(AT LEAST 35 EXTREMISTS, 16 SECURITY FORCES KILLED IN THREE DAYS OF CLASHES IN SWAT: NEWS AGENCY )

Regards

#61 Posted by majumdar,

The [sic] took much bigger casualties in the battle of Mirali, and even over the weekend more of [sic] who have been killed in Swat than kanjaroons.

Dunno where you get this info. The Mirali was no battle but a bombing raid over the village bazaar of Ippi which mainly killed civilians. The villagers who escaped confirmed that the Mujahideen had left for the mountains long before the raid.

As for Swat, some 60-70 troops have been killed in combat plus 14 abducted and beheaded. Additionally, the ISPR is so far denying Fazlullah's claim that 308 FC men are in his custody ... but they initially denied too the 250 in Baitullah's custody. In comparison, no more than a couple of dozen militants have been reported killed by media.

Please maintain data integrity :)

Masadi sahib,

(you on the other hand remain a plagirizing fool)

I was not plagiarising you, it was just two wise men coming to similar conclusions independently much like Newton and Leibniz discovering calculus simultaneously but independently.

Zeemax sahib,

(Yes ... but who will they go after, after they've run out of domestic kanjaroons to behead? )

True. But haven't you concluded rather prematurely that it is the havayoons who will end up beheading all the kanjaroons rather than the other way round. The havayoons took much bigger casualties in the battle of Mirali, and even over the weekend more of havayoons who have been killed in Swat than kanjaroons.

Also refer to my Post #55

Regards

#58 Posted by majumdar,

Yes ... but who will they go after, after they've run out of domestic kanjaroons to behead? Obviously they'll look for 'foreign markets'. :)

majumadar writes "Neoliberalism" affects Latin America, Africa, South East Asia and India equally. So how come people here are not flocking to madrassas"

That was my point in my post #6 here, don't try to borrow my point and then criticize the author as if he were me. SA are not the direct cause of the militant medressa but once the structure of it has been created the SA policies feed it and keep the foundations strong, that was my point, and the author talks about the link as indirect as well though he appears myopic for not making that assertion clearer, you on the other hand remain a plagirizing fool

Zeemax sahib,

(and Taliban have finally got rid of the Jahanabad budhha carved in stone in Swat.)

Seems they have got rid of quite a few security personnel too over the weekend.

(Now they will go after the idol worshipers and behead them wherever they find them.)

For the time being they seem to be more interested in beheading the kanjaroons within their borders.

Regards

Laddu,

You will be pleased to know that your fear of the idol breakers is totally justified, and Taliban have finally got rid of the Jahanabad budhha carved in stone in Swat.

Now they will go after the idol worshipers and behead them wherever they find them. Beware of your banya topi stand !!!

Re: # 52

Allah is responsible for Taliban.

Sunnat is responsible for Taliban.

If Allah is the supremacist deity then Taliban is his fascist clone on the Earth.

If Allah is correct then so is Taliban.

The author seems to be a Masadi clone blaming "the US elite" for each and every problem of Pakistan. "Neoliberalism" affects Latin America, Africa, South East Asia and India equally. So how come people here are not flocking to madrassas, flying planes into skyscrapers and blowing themselves all over the place?

Hamid mian,

(............hindoos beware! ..... as soon as these boys are done here they are coming after you )

But Gen Mush and his mard-e-momin martial race Pak Army are doing a great job of acting as a buffer saving the peaceful unwarlike inhabitants of the Indian plains from the havayoons as wisely predicted by Sir Allama Iqbal.

Regards

There is religious education and then there is its religio-

political mutation. It is the latter that has become the

biggest threat to traditional Madrassa education in

Pakistan.

Ras

so the point is, SAP is not sufficient to explain away the Demand for " Islamization" or " Talibization " ...whatever, as it has penetrated the high -Middle high - Middle income strata as well....

arjun writes "YOU..let me repeat..YOU were completely responsible for the taliban..."

You must be a total retard, I wasn't even in Pakistan when the Taliban were being constituted. There were two choices, let Afghanistan fall under Iranian influence (not something the US desired or the Pak military (this excludes the people of Pakistan desired), therefore using the structure of the Afghan Soviet war with a supply lifeline, with tacit approval of the US, the Taliban became rulers of Afghanistan. The clearest sign of the tacit approval of the US for the Taliban includes no effort on the international scene being made by it post Soviet withdrawl for fixing the mess it had helped create, and more than that was the use of the Pakistan military which does absolutely nothing of significance without getting a green light from the US or it quickly adjusts its behavior upon a phone call...

some of the Top Elite English Medium Schools now boast

"...Modern taleem kay sath Nazra Quran ki taleem bhi dee jati hey....."

rf writes "US foreign policy was NOT the main driving force behind militant maderassa, it was the PAK/Saudi policy to cultivate militant culture through Maderassa that were controlled through Pak organization and Saudi funding"

Total BS, why were the Saudi "petro dollars" not making the medressa militant before the Soviet invasion? It was only after the soviet invasion that the Saudi elite, subordinate totally and completely to the US elite kicked in with their "petro dollars", and the mullahs that they appease for a dual fulfilment of purpose and that was to fight the US proxy cold war. There is no amnesia on my part just stereotypes and BS on your part.

Then he writes "Correct, but u have very conviniently forgotten to mention their religios mentors (Hamas, Hizbollah) and financiers (petro dollars)"

Here you are totally confused, Hamas was created and strengthened by Israel as a bullwark against the secular PLO and Hizbollah has nothing to do with Saudi petro dollars. I did not "forget" to mention anything, we were discussing suicide bombings and they do not have a religious root or cause- this was well established by several studies which you chose to ignore because for you BS rules...

Then he writes "Again, you show selective amnesia. Sunnis bombed shia and Shia bombed sunni places of worship well b4 9/11. Scores of religious leaders were either shot dead or blown to pieces by their opponents"

Those "bombings" were the exception not the rule and they wer not suicide bombings, we saw certain groups come into being during the Zia era- as a direct consequence of the Soviet Afghan war and US meddling in creating groups with Saudi support, those groups set a cycle of sectarian killings, but those killings were not suicide bombings, these are a very new phenomna. However since you have no clue about the issues except BS, we don't expect you to know the details...

Then he writes "Tacit US approval? Make up your mind, either US was the main driving force or just a tacit approver. "

The direct US support was for the Mujahideen, the tacit support was for the Taliban, don't you even know how read? The main driving force for the medressa was the US proxy cold war, the structure that was left did not disappear when the US left it was that structure that spouted the Taliban and the US tacitly approved of them taking over Afghanistan...There was absolutely no contradiction on my part, you show a totally infantile ability to comprehend arguments, in fact your reading ability is quite weak, and its not JOE Stiglitz, it is Joseph Stiglitz, and he is not the end word on what the IMF/WB do, their actions are open books for all to see by their effects. Long before Stiglitz, Michel Chussodovsky wrote his "Globalization of Poverty", and countless studies have been done of it including my published study "Creating a Global Ghetto: Racism, the West and the "Third World"". The author is totally accurate in his conclusion. In case you don't understand "latent", let me explain it to you, once a structure is formed by direct processes, removing the direct stimulus will weaken the structure but if you have in place a setup that feeds it indirectly as the SA of the IMF/WB then you extend its life.

Don't just make posts for the sake of wasting space and time, if you have nothing to dispute your opponents points with except BS, might I politely suggest that you shut up (that goes for you too Hamid) and not make a damn fool of yourself...

Re: # 48

rf,

excellent post - this should shut up masadi permanently, but i am afraid he will come back and start from square one with his mantra : but, it is the fault of the us elite !

Re: # 42

Masadi,

"US foreign policy was the main driving force of the militant medressa phenomena"

US foreign policy was NOT the main driving force behind militant maderassa, it was the PAK/Saudi policy to cultivate militant culture through Maderassa that were controlled through Pak organization and Saudi funding. Americans wanted the Ruskies to pay and didnt care how and who did their dirty job, in comes the Pak stink tanks to use the local religious leaders who have always been willing partners (East pakistan is a classic example where JI openly colluded with Yahya Khan).

With reference to Hibollah and Hamas suicide bombers, aapnay farmiya:

"Yes they have but they have not been the only ones and the socio-political situation in their areas is quite different than what it was before 9/11 in Pakistan, over there many studies done on suicide bombings have not only profiled suicide bombers as not particularly religious but doing the act because of a sense of oppression over the occupation."

Correct, but u have very conviniently forgotten to mention their religios mentors (Hamas, Hizbollah) and financiers (petro dollars)

You go on to further add:

"When the occupation of Pakistan by the "US Occupation Force" became more crystallized to the people post 9/11, you saw a new phenomena in Pakistan, the suicide bomber."

Again, you show selective amnesia. Sunnis bombed shia and Shia bombed sunni places of worship well b4 9/11. Scores of religious leaders were either shot dead or blown to pieces by their opponents.

On the subject of Jihadis (??), Masadi narrates:

"This is complete BS, the Jihadis were nothing pre Afghan Soviet Invasion and post that invasion by giving them a country and a structure (that was lacking before that time)they were given added prominence and force. Their weapons were American supplied, their numbers were American supplied, even their initial training was American supplied, without these they were piss poor shots and rag tag warriors and even with them they lost around 2 million in Afghanistan."

I dont think anyone has disputed with historical facts, your plunge into senseless drivel shows lack of concnetration on your part.

Point regarding Jihadis (??) was directed post Talibanization or Pak armies desire to fortify their strategic depth via Pukhtoon (Taliban) domination of Afghanistan.

"Using this structure the Taliban were created in Pakistan, with tacit approval of the Americans who were wheeling and dealing with them as well pre-9/11."

Tacit US approval? Make up your mind, either US was the main driving force or just a tacit approver.

"You mean to tell us that if similar resources were poured into the Kashmir offensive as were into the Soviet Afghan war by the US, Kashmir would still have been under Indian control?"

We are talking about Pak initiatives in Kashmir that used the same network developed for strategic depth much after the Soviets left Afghanistan and with them the Americans (1989). Again you are contradicting yourself (the rat fart military of India compared to the SU would have been in tatters were the Jihadists a similar force there as they were in Afghanistan, 100% because of the US elite.)

Finally on the main subject, masadi writes:

"The author has made a great point regarding a latent effect of these neo-colonization policies. They concentrate poverty among the masses, and as a result alternatives that are basically religious in nature arise in order to fulfill the needs of people excluded from a social structure."

Latent? Latent effects are weak links that have no proof but writers personal biases. As for the inept IMF and their mistaken SAP, well we have Joe Stiglitz who does a much better job of detailing their mistakes. Finding links that do not exist only show writers prejuidices and plays into the much popular anti-west rhetoric.