The Empire Strikes Again in Pakistan

Enlightened Masadi you speak of ideal times and ideal situations. At hand these are not. We are now passing through some of the most trying times of our existence. Its just too late to say what should or should not have been, however in a way all of our institutioins and organizations are so shot that indeed we need to grub them all and start anew. And yes the military needs to be out of everything, however now when even our very existence is under threat and the situation is dire, you do have to look at individuals and balance them against each other, not institutions. And after you do so, and despite some of the horrendous errors of judgement he has made and might still make in the future Mushy still seems a better alternative than any of our other viable but treacherous and multi-faced options available to us. Some of those, under real democratic norms, would long ago have been abolished and institutionalised by their own parties as thugs of the first order. The post by Zyxius was spot on!

All bhai/behens, hindoo macacas, ex-pat kanjars, and assorted 'civil society' walla liberaloon, motheratoons, kafiroon enlightenedoons etc. Listen up and listen good:

The Union of Islamic Caliphates of South Asia (UIC in short) is in bloom!

Zyxius#107:

A well thought-out post.

If you are an old-timer, you would know that I have generally supported Musharraff's policies. But I think that increasingly, his interests conflict with that of Pakistan, and this Emergency was there to protect himself. Hell wouldn't have broken loose if SC had decided against him and the election of the President had been invalidated. The army would still have been in firm control and the civil administration would have continued on and a new election would have taken place which would probably have even reelected Mush as the President.

The worst thing that Mush has done is created dissension in the one institution of Pakistan which was solid, modern, disciplined and above ethnic, linguistic and religious sectarian divisions, namely the army. There are now rumblings in the army, especially below the corps commanders' level. If there is a rebellion in the army, either at the senior level or, more likely, in some units posted in the insurgent area, Pakistan's survival would truly become uncertain.

Jai Bhole Naath#122:

The crazies in Michigan must be behaving these days for you to find time to cater to the needs of the crazies at chowk.:). Welcome!

I think that you are underestimating the intelligence of the US policy-makers, all of whom are not as dimwitted as their President. They not only know the difference between the Taliban (created by Pakistan) and Al Qaida (created by themselves) but also have now accepted the difference between "good" and "bad" taleban. This is why attempts are afoot by their man-in-kabul, Hamid Karzai, to make a compromise with the "good" taleban.

Zyxius,

Democrats defer with Bush on the war in Iraq.Even Bush's greatest critic, Barak Obama, has said he would be in favour of hot pusuit into FATA to hunt Al Qeeda.

In the minds of Americans, Democrats or Republicans, there is no difference between Taliban & AlQeeda. Whichever administration comes to power, will want Pakistan to hunt down "extremists". Now whether Pakistanis make a distinction is a another matter.

Mushy has shouted hoarse to differentiate between "freedom fighters", "good taliban" etc. But hasnt found many takers in the West.

What do you think the West's response would be, if Pakistan declares its not going to fight their war? If OBL is hiding in Pakistani territory, reorganising & continuing to goad the West, neutrality for Pakistan is not an option.

#120 Posted by Zyxius on November 7, 2007 6:18:03 am

Nice try but here's reality

pakis of all shades want indian kashmir really bad

the paki army promises it can get them kashmir

the paki junta is ok with strenghtening the army so it can get kashmir

it fights with india, loses and fails to win kashmir

it then blames the civilian setup for the loss and turns it's guns on the paki junta

so the reason you don't have democracy and your army is bombing your people: kashmir..

Shankar,

If you read my post, I am actually saying that I think enmity with India is ridiculous. We have no reason to be beefing up our military for India or anybody else and we should declare unilateral peace with India anyway. I am under no impression that India wants attempt anything on Pakistan, even if you do have plenty of ugly idiots like Harysh who talk a lot of crap.

Aid from the US is based on assistance in the war on terror. That includes extra-ordinary renditions, bombing civilians populations to destroy single targets causing massive "collateral damage" (how would you like calling 9/11 that?). I think that this aid comes at a very high price that no country should pay. The US has indeed become the evil empire and its good people have no idea what their leaders are doing in the name of democracy and freedom. We should ride out the GWB administration and see if the next one isn't such a fanatic born again christian. This war is extremely unpopular in the US also and Bush will likely be villified for the rest of time. Already Cheney is compared to Darth Vader by almost everyone. He is the personification of evil! I would not throw my lot in with these guys.

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Zyxius,

Since 9/11, Pakistan has recieved more than $10billion from the US alone. Thats not counting the total aid you have recieved from the Europeans, Australian & Japanese. Incidentally, very few Pakistanis have thanked the West for that aid. Musy was able to improve the economy primarily because of that.

Yeah..its one thing to say "screw America; let them fight their own war". Your economy is vulnerable to sanctions.

The Pakistani military has never won a war in its glorious history. I think the Pakistani public is brainwashed & hoodwinked into believing that India wants to gobble it up.

There were no nuclear weapons in 71. Did India "gobble up" East Pakistan? Bangladesh is a soverign country...."certainly not a sattelite country".

I think you are becoming Jay's bakra. That fool has been thriving on crap since Chowk was founded.

Re: # 111

bj mian,

.... actually they have a real job to do which they have been neglecting because they have busy collecting garbage and trying to run the government ....... they are supposed to move the line of control further to the east and a little to the south - that is what we pay them for .......... hopefully, they will do their real job one day ...... the bums!

PS: Yesterday's mirchi still seems to be working...LOL!

#114 by Zyxius

Why Harysh, did the Kabulis refuse to pay you after you spread yours? You seem to be speaking from experience.

Nah Zyxius mian, you don't have to learn everything from personal experience. Fools learn from their own experience, the wise learn from others' (in this case, you).

Why Harysh, did the Kabulis refuse to pay you after you spread yours? You seem to be speaking from experience.

#112 by majumdar

They can undergo vocational training under Aunty Shamim. With all the Pathan population in Pakistan/A'stan, they will have a ready market for their services.

And if the Kabuliwallahs refuse to pay (as is their wont), they can always opt for the Canadian visa.

Beej bhaiya,

(And what will the khaki officers do? Work for a living?!)

Not a bad idea. My suggestion: They can undergo vocational training under Aunty Shamim. With all the Pathan population in Pakistan/A'stan, they will have a ready market for their services.

Regards

[abolished its army altogether]

And what will the khaki officers do? Work for a living?!